Re: help on the play ground

[Guest guest]

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I

have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I wanted to write you because my son went through that in Kindergarten. The

kids were playing " tag " and my son thought they were all trying to hit him

because he didn't understand the game. another was " monkey in the middle " He

was very upset because they didn't include him and through the ball to him. (he

was in the middle). again, this game had to be explained to him. He didn't

pick up on the game because he never played it. what worked for us was: When

we went to the park, we would sit first and watch all the kids play. We would

talk about what they were doing/playing. some were playing tag, some were on

the swings or gym, some were blowing bubbles or playing ball. My son and I

talked about what he wanted to play and the first few time I went with him to

show him how to join in. After we did this a few times he was able to play in

the park. (by few, lol, it was almost the whole year). as he kept playing in

the park, I would ask him who are you playing

with? He would say, I don't know. I would say, go ask the boy what his name

is and let me know. thats when we worked on introduction. each thing was baby

steps and took a long long time. social skill, I thought he would never learn.

but now in 4th grade you would never know he had a problem with it. He does

have a private therapist that helped a lot and social skills and in school he is

in a social skills group. and of course, I helped alot too. It took a long

time and it was time consuming, but well worth it. I hope this helped a little.

*smile*

wayne_schlapkohl <wayne.s@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

I'm back after a fairly good period.

Esp. after reading 's note I have to say that (my

six year old daughter)has been blessed with a good school and

understanding teachers. She is doing fine in school: a little

eccentric at times but doing fine.

But, like several of you have said, the playground is hard for her.

She is, or believes she is, teased by the boys who call her " ducky "

and chase and sometimes push her. It bothers her. When I watch her on

the playground I realize some of what she says is her perception. She

doesn't realize that they are wanting to play chase or are playing

cops. To her it seems like harassment. I assume at times it is

harassment. I haven't observed often enough to see this first hand

(I've maybe watched her on the play ground three times this year).

Anyway, she is finding it hard to understand the playground. We

(especially my wife, Laurie) have given hints on how to

say " I'd like to play by myself for a bit " or " may I join in " and

ocassionally this works, but ocassionally she has hit. Her physical

education teacher and home room teacher have both commented on this.

Again, they have been tolerant, but I would LOVE ANY SUGGESTIONS

about how we can encourage to get along better with peers

in this entirely unstructured environment. I know others are giving

hints (I was at school last week for " pizza day " and I

heard one nice little boy saying to something like, " You

know if you want to be friends you should ask us to play " ) I think

the asking to join in is especially scary for .

Thanks,

Wayne

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

My honest opinion? I think that the times that our children suffer the most

(recess, lunch, bus) there are the least people available to help. Around

here there are very strict union constraints that come into play. Pam

[Guest guest]

Thanks Rose,

That fits nicely. I go to the park with a fair bit, and I

could (with practice, I'm learning too) talk about the games people are

playing. Boy, can I relate to your son playing with some one and then

not knowing their name. is also learning introductions. In

Kindergarten she only knew the name of one person I think (her best

friend). We encouraged her a bit to introduce herself and try to

remember the names. This year she knows quite a few more. I agree

though, I'll have to be willing to roll up my sleeves and do some work.

Some of this (of course) will not come easily.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't

do that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior.

but the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball

coach etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and

not following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by

Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

My 1st grade son does not go on the playgroung equipment at recess

because he is not great with motor planning and having his feet off

the ground, etc. He doesn't want to try with a crowd around because

he doesn't want to be bumped or rushed. I think its pretty scary for

him and not worth the effort most of the time. I have PT work on the

school playgroung with him during the warmer months because it really

impacts social opportunities.

Also, I don't think behavior issues surface as much during the school

day because it is so structured. Recess and activities are not

structured and cause anxiety and problems for these kids because they

don't know how to be successful. I have my son's one to one aid at

school structure an activity at recess everyday so my son will have

something to do and a place to fit in. It has been very successful

and the other NT kids are joining in to play kickball etc. No more

behavior issues.

I probably wouldn't have known there was a problem had I not sent

wraparound in to the school to check things out, which I do

periodically. I think if the child has an aid, recess is one of the

most important times for them to step in and foster social skills and

appropriate behavior. I am trying to avoid my son getting a

reputation as a bully which he was starting to because he couldn't be

successful socially at the unstructured recess time. I made sure all

of this was in his IEP also.

Good luck,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't

do that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior.

but the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball

coach etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and

not following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by

Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Hello Debbie,

what is wraparound?

debramelamed <melamedj@...> wrote:

My 1st grade son does not go on the playgroung equipment at recess

because he is not great with motor planning and having his feet off

the ground, etc. He doesn't want to try with a crowd around because

he doesn't want to be bumped or rushed. I think its pretty scary for

him and not worth the effort most of the time. I have PT work on the

school playgroung with him during the warmer months because it really

impacts social opportunities.

Also, I don't think behavior issues surface as much during the school

day because it is so structured. Recess and activities are not

structured and cause anxiety and problems for these kids because they

don't know how to be successful. I have my son's one to one aid at

school structure an activity at recess everyday so my son will have

something to do and a place to fit in. It has been very successful

and the other NT kids are joining in to play kickball etc. No more

behavior issues.

I probably wouldn't have known there was a problem had I not sent

wraparound in to the school to check things out, which I do

periodically. I think if the child has an aid, recess is one of the

most important times for them to step in and foster social skills and

appropriate behavior. I am trying to avoid my son getting a

reputation as a bully which he was starting to because he couldn't be

successful socially at the unstructured recess time. I made sure all

of this was in his IEP also.

Good luck,

Debbie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has

half-a-brain would know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see

that behavior. " means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything

about that since we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

In PA if you have a disability such as AS you get a Medicaid Access

card (which is not dependent on income)which entitles you to all

medical services including behavioral health services. The therapists

are Master Level and are supplied by agencies designated for this

purpose. Abehavior plan is designed and carried out in your home and

school.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on

the playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Yes, his self esteem will pay the price....The kids will make him a target, pick

on him, and his school work will begin to drop. Then he wouldn't want to go to

school...everything we do its all around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved

with my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was

happening. later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the

earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at

the school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be

included. This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start

young is very important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How

is he with life skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family

room? can he get a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share

my AS sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

I think his school would tell me I'm outta luck if I ask for playground

assistance. They only have OT & speech pull-out services as it's an " all

inclusive " school. So Life Sills is only offered at the campus with more

severely disabled kids. But I sure wish Life Skills was available at his

school!

He is not only able to get his own milk, but he'll build a " milk fetching

robot " to assist him! He's always getting into everything & driving his parents

& classmates crazy in the meantime! Thanks for the hugs!

I wish playground time was better for our kiddos!

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

Yes, his self esteem will pay the price....The kids will make him a

target, pick on him, and his school work will begin to drop. Then he wouldn't

want to go to school...everything we do its all around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved with

my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was happening.

later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at the

school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be included.

This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start young is very

important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How is he with life

skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family room? can he get

a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Liz, Sorry to keep this still going. this is what is so very helpful for me and

my son. along with working with your sons " needs " also focus on his strengths~

I also find this important for the child so the child doesn't always see himself

as " the bad kid " . you said, he can build, Have you considered taking him to a

hobby store? seeing what he would be interested in building, let him build it,

then let him take it to school for show & tell. This will make him feel proud

of himself and have something to talk about in school and share. (good start for

social skills). ~give him something interesting to talk about~. (to catch the

interest of other children).

do you go to these school meetings with an advocate? From what I've been

learning from this site, they have to provide help for your child. " no child

gets left behind " . an advocate can help you get the appropriate help your child

needs.

When you take him to the park, Have him bring something that will catch

interest with a group of children. start off playing with him and teach him to

ask another child if they want to join. that will get the group going and you

can sneak out and watch. In first grade the children seem to be interested in

almost anything. When we go to the park with one of the " Hugh " Frisbees " that

is an eye catcher. boys love to play catch with a football. at a park -

balloons are always fun. these things attract the attention of other children.

If your son does something inappropriate, call him aside and correct him (in a

friendly way) and show him the right way to do it. most of these children can't

or don't know how to correct themselves unless taught to. they just don't pick

it up on their own. that is one of the difference between AS and NT. A NT

child will pick up on that and automatically correct themselves. AS child needs

a little more help. I hope this was a little

help for you, all this took lots of time, but worth it for us. *smile*

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I think his school would tell me I'm outta luck if I ask for playground

assistance. They only have OT & speech pull-out services as it's an " all

inclusive " school. So Life Sills is only offered at the campus with more

severely disabled kids. But I sure wish Life Skills was available at his school!

He is not only able to get his own milk, but he'll build a " milk fetching robot "

to assist him! He's always getting into everything & driving his parents &

classmates crazy in the meantime! Thanks for the hugs!

I wish playground time was better for our kiddos!

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

Yes, his self esteem will pay the price....The kids will make him a target, pick

on him, and his school work will begin to drop. Then he wouldn't want to go to

school...everything we do its all around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved with

my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was happening.

later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at the

school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be included.

This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start young is very

important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How is he with life

skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family room? can he get

a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Dave wrote:

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim,

basketball, etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is

more room for creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the

restrictions are relaxed, there is more need for self-structure, and

self-structure is not something we are good at.

Yes, yes, and yes. in fine at school, but the rules are

right there. The teacher says, do this adding, and let me know when you

are done.

But at swimming she is climbing on the life guard, in dance she was

running around when others were doing their stretches. I've gotten

better at saying to before every lesson, " listen to your

teacher, don't splash. But I hope she is still having fun. Clearly, I

need to keep telling her what the structure is.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Wayne,

that is so very important...letting your daughter know what the structure is

" BEFORE " going to the swim class or anywhere else. Good for you...Keep doing

that...with everything. before you go shopping, before you go to the park,

before you go to the restaurant. keep reinforcing what you expect of her to do.

Have you considered speaking to the life guard privately and explaining to

her/him that when she/he is working with the group to keep up with prompts.

(to the group, not just your daughter) so this don't bring on attention to other

children, and make her a target. When your daughter " climbs on the lifeguard "

have the lifeguard explain to her, this is not what the children are doing.

explain to her what the children are doing and (prompt her) to do it. If the

lifeguard has no time for that. You would be a help if you were there to do

this. if you keep reinforcing this, one day, you will see it was well worth it.

You daughter will do much better. She might be

climbing on the lifeguard because she doesn't understand what she is suppose to

do, or can feel over anxious about doing it, maybe overwhelmed. support helps.

good luck.

wayne_schlapkohl <wayne.s@...> wrote:

Dave wrote:

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim,

basketball, etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is

more room for creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the

restrictions are relaxed, there is more need for self-structure, and

self-structure is not something we are good at.

Yes, yes, and yes. in fine at school, but the rules are

right there. The teacher says, do this adding, and let me know when you

are done.

But at swimming she is climbing on the life guard, in dance she was

running around when others were doing their stretches. I've gotten

better at saying to before every lesson, " listen to your

teacher, don't splash. But I hope she is still having fun. Clearly, I

need to keep telling her what the structure is.

Wayne

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Do any of your kids ever get sick of that? It seems to me when I try to " work

on " or correct his behavavior he gets frustrated. I'm afraid he won't want to

talk to me about anything or hang out with me ever if I keep doing that. I try

not to do it to often anymore but even the few times I do, he gets mad.

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote: Yes, his self esteem will pay

the price....The kids will make him a target, pick on him, and his school work

will begin to drop. Then he wouldn't want to go to school...everything we do its

all around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved with

my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was happening.

later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at the

school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be included.

This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start young is very

important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How is he with life

skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family room? can he get

a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

My son will not listen to me when I try giving him social tips. He gets mad &

will run off. I feel so bad that he's always having to hear things like " next

time honey, don't bark like a dog at the other kids " or " your friends don't want

you to kick them when you're on the monkey bars " or " Tommy really didn't want to

know everything about spider webs, Didn't you see that Tommy was getting really

upset that you kept talking in his face about spider webs? "

And the other hard part about it is whatever I do advise him about doesn't

sink in. He just continues the behaviors. He is beginning a social play

therapy class in 2 weeks. I hope they can help him.

dsay Essenfeld <lessen@...> wrote:

Do any of your kids ever get sick of that? It seems to me when I try

to " work on " or correct his behavavior he gets frustrated. I'm afraid he won't

want to talk to me about anything or hang out with me ever if I keep doing that.

I try not to do it to often anymore but even the few times I do, he gets mad.

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote: Yes, his self esteem will pay the

price....The kids will make him a target, pick on him, and his school work will

begin to drop. Then he wouldn't want to go to school...everything we do its all

around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved with

my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was happening.

later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at the

school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be included.

This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start young is very

important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How is he with life

skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family room? can he get

a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Just make sure you are giving them tips on what to do INSTEAD of what

they are doing, too!

Jackie

On Dec 30, 2006, at 12:04 PM, Liz S wrote:

> My son will not listen to me when I try giving him social tips. He

> gets mad & will run off. I feel so bad that he's always having to

> hear things like " next time honey, don't bark like a dog at the

> other kids " or " your friends don't want you to kick them when

> you're on the monkey bars " or " Tommy really didn't want to know

> everything about spider webs, Didn't you see that Tommy was getting

> really upset that you kept talking in his face about spider webs? "

> And the other hard part about it is whatever I do advise him

> about doesn't sink in. He just continues the behaviors. He is

> beginning a social play therapy class in 2 weeks. I hope they can

> help him.

>

> dsay Essenfeld <lessen@...> wrote:

> Do any of your kids ever get sick of that? It seems to me

> when I try to " work on " or correct his behavavior he gets

> frustrated. I'm afraid he won't want to talk to me about anything

> or hang out with me ever if I keep doing that. I try not to do it

> to often anymore but even the few times I do, he gets mad.

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, sometimes he does get frustrated. but I know if I do nothing, that is

what my son will learn. (nothing). Do you think this is true? if he gets

frustrated, and you don't enforce what he is expected to do, he will learn

" that behavior " to get out of doing what he is expected to do? If I tell my

son to do his homework before he goes out to play. and he acts frustrated and

has a meltdown. and I let him go outside, and not do his homework, I will be

teaching him that if he has a meltdown, you don't have to do your homework.

being consistent and repetition worked for us. He now comes home and does his

homework first before playing. Yes, last year, we had the meltdown. boy did we.

I kept at it and this year is a better year for us.

each child is different. This might not work well for you. I'm just posting

what worked for us just in case it might help out someone who can relate with

our experience. We also went through the reward routine, doing things

together, we tried lots, somethings just didn't work, don't give up, sometimes

trying something else/different will connect. That's what is great about this

site. everybody has a different experience that works for them, they post it

here, and others get ideas from them. Good luck.

Essenfeld <lessen@...> wrote:

Do any of your kids ever get sick of that? It seems to me when I try

to " work on " or correct his behavavior he gets frustrated. I'm afraid he won't

want to talk to me about anything or hang out with me ever if I keep doing that.

I try not to do it to often anymore but even the few times I do, he gets mad.

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote: Yes, his self esteem will pay the

price....The kids will make him a target, pick on him, and his school work will

begin to drop. Then he wouldn't want to go to school...everything we do its all

around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved with

my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was happening.

later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at the

school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be included.

This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start young is very

important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How is he with life

skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family room? can he get

a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Liz

have you tried explaining boundaries. this takes me way back to preschool

days. I would teach my son to expand his arm. If his fingers touch another

person he is too close. This didn't work the first time. it took many

reminders. but at least there was a strategy to give him an idea how far to be

from another person. Is you son literal? If I told my son: (don't bark like a

dog -at the other kids). He would picture a dog barking and say to me. I

didn't bark - ruf ruf. LOL. I don't mean to sound mean. but that was my son.

One time, when my son was playing, It sounded like he said (shit). I said.

watch the words that come out your mouth. he laughed so hard. I asked what is

so funny? He said, How can I see " words " coming out my mouth. We also went

through the kicking. What caused your son to kick while on the monkey bars?

was it because another child was too close, or going to the bar he wanted to

use? My son kicked because " of his " processing delay.

He couldn't think fast enough to say, Move over, I'm climbing here, or I want

my toy back. but kicking/hitting got the toy back quick. I had to roll play

and teach him what to say to another child. We are still working on this. And

perservate, that is what Aspergers do best. for my son it was snakes. He

learned everything about snakes and all he talked about was snakes. that was

his comfort zone. I introduced him to another topic, read books about it and I

asked him questions (letting him teach me something about the new topic). we

tried many things too.

we also went through that too: you wrote: didn't you see Tommy's face, he

didn't like that. *Most AS children don't look at peoples faces when they talk

to them. that is why they don't understand the expression on another child's

face. they are not looking there. What I did was while watching TV I would as

him to pick out people that are happy, sad, angry etc... This is another slow

process. Good luck. *smile* Just sharing what we did, I know this might not

work for you. But one day you will see a difference.

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

My son will not listen to me when I try giving him social tips. He

gets mad & will run off. I feel so bad that he's always having to hear things

like " next time honey, don't bark like a dog at the other kids " or " your friends

don't want you to kick them when you're on the monkey bars " or " Tommy really

didn't want to know everything about spider webs, Didn't you see that Tommy was

getting really upset that you kept talking in his face about spider webs? "

And the other hard part about it is whatever I do advise him about doesn't sink

in. He just continues the behaviors. He is beginning a social play therapy class

in 2 weeks. I hope they can help him.

dsay Essenfeld <lessen@...> wrote:

Do any of your kids ever get sick of that? It seems to me when I try to " work

on " or correct his behavavior he gets frustrated. I'm afraid he won't want to

talk to me about anything or hang out with me ever if I keep doing that. I try

not to do it to often anymore but even the few times I do, he gets mad.

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote: Yes, his self esteem will pay the

price....The kids will make him a target, pick on him, and his school work will

begin to drop. Then he wouldn't want to go to school...everything we do its all

around socializing.

Does your school have a " social skills class " ? Request one. I got involved with

my son and socialized him. I stayed with him and if he did something

inappropriately I would call him to me and explain what he did wrong and showed

him the right way. With my son, this had to be corrected while it was happening.

later at home would be too late. He would not relate it to the earlier behavior.

maybe you can request an experienced or trained aid to be with your child at the

school playground/lunch/gym to help him join the other children and be included.

This is time consuming and also very important. Also, to start young is very

important too. If he has an IEP get this added to it ASAP. How is he with life

skills? in your home, can he name things in the kitchen, family room? can he get

a drink of milk by himself? best luck to you. (hugs).

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote:

I'm not trying to take away from the original post but wanted to share my AS

sons playground situation. He's in 1st grade and plays alone mostly. The

teachers say he tries to join in organized games but can't grasp the rules, so

he interrupts the kids who are trying to play and eventually frustrates them. I

wish that he could get some special guidance while on the playground from a

school therapist. I think that after a few years of him behaving this way on the

playground, his self esteem will pay a price.

Liz

Houston

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

AWESOME!!! Dave,

well put, I wrote everything down that you explained here so I won't forget a

thing for my next CSE meeting. I'm now just waiting for someone to say to me:::

I don't see that here. Now I have a nice answer for them. Thank you!!!! " big

smile " .

<sirdavjohn@...> wrote:

Any counselor or therapist, even a school official, who has half-a-brain would

know that saying " He doesn't do that here. " or " We don't see that behavior. "

means that " I can't comment on that. " or " I don't know anything about that since

we don't see it. " All too often, it really means " It's not my

problem/job/concern, don't bother me with it. "

In school, or class, there is structure and rule. In dance, swim, basketball,

etc. there are fewer rules and less structure. There is more room for

creativity, imagination and spontenaety. When the restrictions are relaxed,

there is more need for self-structure, and self-structure is not something we

are good at.

Dave

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't do

that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

I think they don't see it because they don't know how to fix it. Another

thought is that they don't look because they dismiss your concerns outright.

It's also true that unless your child is causing a problem for someone else,

they often don't bother dealing with it as well.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't

do that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree with you that his self esteem will pay a price. And even more, the

other kids will learn to avoid him because they know he's weird. So the sooner

he starts getting help, the better. All of these problems can be put into the

" Present levels of performance " (PLOP) and goals can be written for playground,

lunch, PE - wherever problems are happening for the child. Request help. Get

social skill instruction, find the school counselor and psychologist, push and

push some more. This matters.

A great book for outlining social skills is: " Super Skills " It lists all kinds

of social skills and games to play to help teach these skills to kids. It's a

great resource.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't

do that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

If the child has an IEP, then this should be in his IEP and he should receive

help for it. The school can't tell you that you are " out of luck " no matter

what kind of school they want to call themselves.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) help on the play ground

Hi Pam,

Why do schools do that? including the therapists, when they say, " He doesn't

do that here " . or he is doing so well at school, we don't see that behavior. but

the after school activities like the dance teacher/swim teacher/basketball coach

etc.... wants to throw them out because of inappropriate social skills and not

following (understanding) instructions.

Is this because the school doesn't know what to look for? There not there long

enough to observe the behavior? comparing to a child that has more needs? they

want to look good by saying that doesn't happen at school? or other? I always

wonder why the school doesn't see it????

ppanda65@... wrote:

You might want to check out the book " Taming the Recess Jungle " by Carol

Gray. I also have similar problems with recess and my son's perception. I have

to admit though that I tend to believe my son and not the school therapists

when they say how well he is doing at recess and lunch and that his

perception is very different from what is going on. Pam

[Guest guest]

In my son's school " social skills " are taught in small groups by the

speech therapist. It's actually been very effective in teaching those

social nuances that so many AS children do not grasp without assistance.

Also, our local Children's Developmental Center has weekly and Summer

Camp Social Skills classes for older children. Ages 8 and up I think.