Re: The culture of Accommodation

[Guest guest]

HI : First sign me up for a book :-)!

Second: I suspect that while group is well meaning and problem solving

as best we can, we are uninformed because of reasons you mentioned:

school, diagnosis and methods. Dev Peds....ugh. {shivers}

My son is 5 has always been quirky, but not until Oct 2006 given a AS

diagnosis-opening a window of opportunity, I thought. Then last week

diffferent groups of evals, etc say no way not AS. Long story with

twists.

Me: I've known for 4 years he's got PDD issues- which have followed

closely to AS. Then there's his ADHD impulsivity that overshadows

EVERYTHING ELSE. But accroding to DSM-IV cannot have both...

Until DSM-IV changes, new breed of Dev Peds arrives and school get

onboard with methods that work...parents and more significantly are

going to be kicked out, arrested, problem of society.

Feeling a little cynical and judgemental, -Ann

[Guest guest]

What is the name of the book. I lost your last post with it in it.

( ) The culture of

Accommodation br> br> Hi Roxanna and Group, br> br> I really care about the

families on this list and would like them all to get

the best possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real

difficult time with some of these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep

reading email after email about kids who are getting kicked out of school,

arrested, refusing their parents wishes, and falling deeper and deeper into

a self-centered approach to life that will in many cases imprison these

children in teenage and adult lives of loneliness and strife. T he number of

young adults with Asperger's who live with depression, br> problems with

authority, and social isolation is overwhelming. br> br> I don't blame the

parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves. To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers

who don't seem to understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last

10 - 20 years there has been a culture that has developed which pushes

parents and teachers to accomodate for or manage the " sensory issues " ,

inappropriate behavior " and " self-centered thinking " that often comes with

Asperger's syndrome. This accomodation /behavior management approach has

developed as a backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the schools.

When schools have been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to

overcome these issues and accept the structure and authority of society,

they began blaming the kids and the parents. Without better teaching methods

at their disposal they began pushing authoritarian punishment procedures to

levels that were completely inappropriate for a child who is just living the

best way he knows br> how. br> br> To counter this, parents and advocates in

the early 90's began the culture

that is now in existence that says that " my child's behavior is due to his

disability and not within his or our control. Because of this it is

inappropriate for you to punish him and instead you need to make

modifications and accomodations to allow him to be who he is within the

context of the school. " This is the belief and philosophy I see in most of

the ideas and advice that is shared on this group. My emotional reactio n

comes from the fact that it appears that it is many of the children who have

grown up within this culture of accommodate and behavior manage that are now

13 -18 years old and are getting kicked out of school or whose parents are

having them arrested as last ditch efforts to get them to understand the

concept of consequence. br> br> Some schools buy into the current accomodation

philosophy and some do not.

The ones who do not are trying without the proper tools to get children to

learn the same social and behavioral expectations that other children live

with. Although this is in my estimation an appropraiate, ethical, and

necessary goal, without the right tools they will undoubtedly fail and then

continue to blame the kids or families. br> br> The schools that do agree with

this culture of accommodation will try their

best to work with the families and will accomodate and behavior manage.

However, with these schools the important goals of teaching the child to

learn and live with the same social and behavioral expectations as others

goes out the window. In these cases this accomodation goes on for years and

years as the child becomes older, smarter, but often less capable of

interactiing in more typical and appropriate ways. Leaving social rifts

between the child with AS and his typical peers and still a lack of respect

and understanding for authority and consequence. br> br> In the old school

way, they are trying to push your children without the

proper techniques to fit into social and societal structures that will

ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life. With the culture of accommodation

they are allowing for social and societal ineffectiveness with the goal to

keep your child in school. Either way, I am unhappy with the result and feel

that as a parent you should be as well. br> br> What I want to see is chldren

who are caringly and respectfully given a

comprehensive plan to systematically help them overcome the social,

behavioral, and sensory issues that come with AS. Not that anything is wrong

with who they are but because having a diagnosis should not be an excuse for

us not to educate someone. The idea is to have the highest level goals and

expectations for all kids, (on the spectrum or off) but to work toward these

expections with the best and most appropriate teaching techniques available.

I want families not to be talking about how do I get my child to leave the

Christmas tree alone or how do I get my child to not run out of the house,

or push other kids, or say bad words in school. I want the families on this

group to be talking about how do I comprehensively teach my child the value

of following adult instructions and the value of giving up some control in

the short term for a larger long term goal of social reciprocity. This is

what a br> comprehensive teaching approach like ABA/VB is offering. Not a

" what do I do

when this happens " but a systematic way to interact with my child so that he

will begin to understand the consequences of inappropriate choices, the

benefit of following adult lead, and the social joy that comes from truly

recipricol relationships. br> br> I know that there must be some families out

there who see what I am saying

and feel that this makes sense. I am sure that I have probably offended many

more who believe that convincing the school to accommodate for a child with

AS's every need is what is best for their child. I have no desire to argue

with people who feel that way but will happily debate the benefits and

problems with these approaches (as I have with Luiz and others in the past).

Truthfully, I am hoping to reach the families out there who are are still

looking for a way to have it all. A young adult who lives like most others,

one who is able to make behavioral and social choices that will allow him to

stay in school, find and keep a job, have real friends and truly use what

makes him unique to build a life filled with happiness. br> br> It is for

those families that I sent out the 7 steps to earning

instructional control. Those seven steps are the foundation to all teaching

that I feel you should be doing with your child. Keep caring control over

the things your child finds reinforcing, pair yourself with positive things

75% of the time you are with your child so that he sees the benefit of

maintaining your social interactions. Give lots of simple instructions and

when complied with be sure that those instructions always meet with some

form of positive reinforcement, social and tangable. Then when a child

refuses, do not allow that type of behavior to meet with reinforcement,

motivating the child to try different ways to regain access to his favorite

things as well as your interactions (which through pairing will now be more

motivating in itself). In other words systematically capture and use your

child's motivation in ways that teaches him better relationship and behavior

skills. All of which can be br> done without ever forcing your child to do

anything he doesn't want to do.

Instead you are setting up the environment so that he will want to do the

things you know are beneficial for him. br> br> Unfortunately, the most

efficient way I can share this information is

through my book (which is why I wrote it). I know, I know, " Why is on

this list? he is just trying to make a buck. " The truth is I cannot make

anywhere near enough money as a first time author to ever repay the amount

of time and effort I put into these groups offering ideas and sharing advice

Additionally, I am totally willing to pay my dues by maintaining a

membership and to offer advice as I continue to learn from all of you. I

just feel that the current culture of accomodate and behavior/manage

(although better than what came before it) is still counterproductive to

your ultimate goals as parents and teachers and is so pervasive that it

seems to creep into the advice of most of the emails sent on this group. br>

br> To this end I would like to make an offer. Anyone who would be interested in

reading a free copy of my book and offering a thoughtful, unbiased account

of its worth to the other members of this group, can email me privately. I

will send out 3 or 4 copies to those who are truly interested in considering

another option to the current culture of accomodate and behavior manage and

are willing to share their opinion of this option to your groupmates. br> br>

Roxanna, since you are a moderator on this group. If you would like to be

one of the reviewers, let me know if you are interested, I will gladly send

you a copy as well. Anyone else who is interested, email me a brief history

of your situation. How old is your child, what are you biggest problems what

have been your biggest successes. I will try to pick a few people with

varied experiences and send them a free copy. (By the way, no copy I send is

free, depending on where you live it will cost me $10-20 p er book I send

out (that is the life of a first time author). But to me it is worth it if I

can help spark a new culture in the AS world that offers the best of both

worlds. One that maintains the highest expectations, and goals and one that

can ethically and caringly teach toward those expectations, regardless of

the difficulty of the dx. br> br> br> br> ________________________ br>

br> Schramm, MA, BCBA br> www.lulu.com/knospe-aba br> www.knospe-aba.com

br> ________________________ br> br>

__________________________________________________________ br> Need a quick

answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. br> Ask your question on

www.Answers. br> br> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed] br> br> br> br>

[Guest guest]

, I think I take an approach that's halfway between the Culture of

Accommodation

and the idea that the kid needs to learn to function in society the way it is

and not expect

the world to accommodate his differences. What I'm doing is pushing the school

mostly to

accommodate my youngest child (8yo) while working on his issues, and, OTOH,

backing

the school in mostly pushing my oldest child (15yo) to deal with the world the

way it is

while still providing minor accommodations. The difference in my approach isn't

due to

the fact that the older child is getting to the age where he's not going to have

any choice

any more, so I've suddenly realized that I've been following the wrong approach

all along.

It's due to the fact that my atypical children grow and develop more ability to

manage

themselves as they get older just like my typical children do, so I expect more

of them.

What I would look for in an aide (which, BTW, we've never had for any of the

kids) wouldn't

be someone who could make my kid's experience of life as smooth as possible, but

someone who would smooth what the kid *can't* handle, while encouraging

independence

in ways that the child *can* handle and pushing (all the time) just a little bit

for

independence in areas that the child finds uncomfortable. I believe that there

are always

ways that a child is capable of improving, and that what we're looking for is

how to push

for the next little increment of improvement. The idea is to keep the child

just a little bit

out of his comfort zone, but not force him so far out of it that he shuts down

or overloads

to the point that his behavior becomes a problem for everyone. It's the

approach I took

while I was home schooling my kids, and I believe it's how I improved their

behavior to the

point that they were capable of going back to mainstream classrooms after a

couple of

years.

This is slightly different from the approach I take with my more typical kids.

They don't

need me to be that source of constant, minor, pressure in their life because

they learn

these things without my intervention. In their cases, I think of my role as a

matter of fine

tuning social responses that are basically within the normal range. I push

sometimes, but

not all the time. With my atypical kids, I'm always on alert. Is he ready to

be pushed a

little bit further toward normal? When does he need comfort? When does he need

a

shove? As the kids grow older and learn what I'm teaching them, the shoving

starts to

take precedence over the comforting.

I think that it's unfortunate that this method means that I'm a constant source

of minor

discomfort for my atypical children. I wish I could just be their snuggly mom,

but they

need me to compensate for the fact that they don't just learn a lot of important

things

naturally. I don't see a way for that to happen, given the large amount of

material they

need help learning, if we don't more or less 'stay on task' more or less all the

time. (BTW,

all of this is done with tons of snuggles and encouragement--because, in my

experience,

that's what works.)

Does that make sense?

Sue C.

>

> Hi Roxanna and Group,

>

> I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get

the best

possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real difficult time

with some of

these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep reading email after email about

kids who

are getting kicked out of school, arrested, refusing their parents wishes, and

falling

deeper and deeper into a self-centered approach to life that will in many cases

imprison

these children in teenage and adult lives of loneliness and strife. The number

of young

adults with Asperger's who live with depression,

> problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

>

> I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves.

To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers who don't seem to

understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last 10 - 20 years there

has been a

culture that has developed which pushes parents and teachers to accomodate for

or

manage the " sensory issues " , " inappropriate behavior " and " self-centered

thinking " that

often comes with Asperger's syndrome. This accomodation/behavior management

approach has developed as a backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the

schools.

When schools have been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to overcome

these

issues and accept the structure and authority of society, they began blaming the

kids and

the parents. Without better teaching methods at their disposal they began

pushing

authoritarian punishment procedures to levels that were completely inappropriate

for a

child who is just living the best way he knows

> how.

[i snipped the rest of the post, not because I disagree with it, but because of

not wanting

to clutter up the digest with lengthy repeats]

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree more.

-- ( ) The culture of Accommodation

Hi Roxanna and Group,

I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get

the best possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real

difficult time with some of these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep

reading email after email about kids who are getting kicked out of school,

arrested, refusing their parents wishes, and falling deeper and deeper into

a self-centered approach to life that will in many cases imprison these

children in teenage and adult lives of loneliness and strife. T he number of

young adults with Asperger's who live with depression,

problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves. To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers

who don't seem to understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last

10 - 20 years there has been a culture that has developed which pushes

parents and teachers to accomodate for or manage the " sensory issues " ,

inappropriate behavior " and " self-centered thinking " that often comes with

Asperger's syndrome. This accomodation /behavior management approach has

developed as a backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the schools.

When schools have been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to

overcome these issues and accept the structure and authority of society,

they began blaming the kids and the parents. Without better teaching methods

at their disposal they began pushing authoritarian punishment procedures to

levels that were completely inappropriate for a child who is just living the

best way he knows

how.

To counter this, parents and advocates in the early 90's began the culture

that is now in existence that says that " my child's behavior is due to his

disability and not within his or our control. Because of this it is

inappropriate for you to punish him and instead you need to make

modifications and accomodations to allow him to be who he is within the

context of the school. " This is the belief and philosophy I see in most of

the ideas and advice that is shared on this group. My emotional reactio n

comes from the fact that it appears that it is many of the children who have

grown up within this culture of accommodate and behavior manage that are now

13 -18 years old and are getting kicked out of school or whose parents are

having them arrested as last ditch efforts to get them to understand the

concept of consequence.

Some schools buy into the current accomodation philosophy and some do not.

The ones who do not are trying without the proper tools to get children to

learn the same social and behavioral expectations that other children live

with. Although this is in my estimation an appropraiate, ethical, and

necessary goal, without the right tools they will undoubtedly fail and then

continue to blame the kids or families.

The schools that do agree with this culture of accommodation will try their

best to work with the families and will accomodate and behavior manage.

However, with these schools the important goals of teaching the child to

learn and live with the same social and behavioral expectations as others

goes out the window. In these cases this accomodation goes on for years and

years as the child becomes older, smarter, but often less capable of

interactiing in more typical and appropriate ways. Leaving social rifts

between the child with AS and his typical peers and still a lack of respect

and understanding for authority and consequence.

In the old school way, they are trying to push your children without the

proper techniques to fit into social and societal structures that will

ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life. With the culture of accommodation

they are allowing for social and societal ineffectiveness with the goal to

keep your child in school. Either way, I am unhappy with the result and feel

that as a parent you should be as well.

What I want to see is chldren who are caringly and respectfully given a

comprehensive plan to systematically help them overcome the social,

behavioral, and sensory issues that come with AS. Not that anything is wrong

with who they are but because having a diagnosis should not be an excuse for

us not to educate someone. The idea is to have the highest level goals and

expectations for all kids, (on the spectrum or off) but to work toward these

expections with the best and most appropriate teaching techniques available.

I want families not to be talking about how do I get my child to leave the

Christmas tree alone or how do I get my child to not run out of the house,

or push other kids, or say bad words in school. I want the families on this

group to be talking about how do I comprehensively teach my child the value

of following adult instructions and the value of giving up some control in

the short term for a larger long term goal of social reciprocity. This is

what a

comprehensive teaching approach like ABA/VB is offering. Not a " what do I do

when this happens " but a systematic way to interact with my child so that he

will begin to understand the consequences of inappropriate choices, the

benefit of following adult lead, and the social joy that comes from truly

recipricol relationships.

I know that there must be some families out there who see what I am saying

and feel that this makes sense. I am sure that I have probably offended many

more who believe that convincing the school to accommodate for a child with

AS's every need is what is best for their child. I have no desire to argue

with people who feel that way but will happily debate the benefits and

problems with these approaches (as I have with Luiz and others in the past).

Truthfully, I am hoping to reach the families out there who are are still

looking for a way to have it all. A young adult who lives like most others,

one who is able to make behavioral and social choices that will allow him to

stay in school, find and keep a job, have real friends and truly use what

makes him unique to build a life filled with happiness.

It is for those families that I sent out the 7 steps to earning

instructional control. Those seven steps are the foundation to all teaching

that I feel you should be doing with your child. Keep caring control over

the things your child finds reinforcing, pair yourself with positive things

75% of the time you are with your child so that he sees the benefit of

maintaining your social interactions. Give lots of simple instructions and

when complied with be sure that those instructions always meet with some

form of positive reinforcement, social and tangable. Then when a child

refuses, do not allow that type of behavior to meet with reinforcement,

motivating the child to try different ways to regain access to his favorite

things as well as your interactions (which through pairing will now be more

motivating in itself). In other words systematically capture and use your

child's motivation in ways that teaches him better relationship and behavior

skills. All of which can be

done without ever forcing your child to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Instead you are setting up the environment so that he will want to do the

things you know are beneficial for him.

Unfortunately, the most efficient way I can share this information is

through my book (which is why I wrote it). I know, I know, " Why is on

this list? he is just trying to make a buck. " The truth is I cannot make

anywhere near enough money as a first time author to ever repay the amount

of time and effort I put into these groups offering ideas and sharing advice

Additionally, I am totally willing to pay my dues by maintaining a

membership and to offer advice as I continue to learn from all of you. I

just feel that the current culture of accomodate and behavior/manage

(although better than what came before it) is still counterproductive to

your ultimate goals as parents and teachers and is so pervasive that it

seems to creep into the advice of most of the emails sent on this group.

To this end I would like to make an offer. Anyone who would be interested in

reading a free copy of my book and offering a thoughtful, unbiased account

of its worth to the other members of this group, can email me privately. I

will send out 3 or 4 copies to those who are truly interested in considering

another option to the current culture of accomodate and behavior manage and

are willing to share their opinion of this option to your groupmates.

Roxanna, since you are a moderator on this group. If you would like to be

one of the reviewers, let me know if you are interested, I will gladly send

you a copy as well. Anyone else who is interested, email me a brief history

of your situation. How old is your child, what are you biggest problems what

have been your biggest successes. I will try to pick a few people with

varied experiences and send them a free copy. (By the way, no copy I send is

free, depending on where you live it will cost me $10-20 p er book I send

out (that is the life of a first time author). But to me it is worth it if I

can help spark a new culture in the AS world that offers the best of both

worlds. One that maintains the highest expectations, and goals and one that

can ethically and caringly teach toward those expectations, regardless of

the difficulty of the dx.

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.com

________________________

__________________________________________________________

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.

Ask your question on www.Answers.

[Guest guest]

I tend to feel the same way - in that I think we should push kids to learn as

much as they can so that they can ultimately be independent. OTOH, there are

times that I want accommodations and modifications put in place for my kids - I

don't feel it is an " either or " proposition. I think appropriate supports are

important and a necessary set of steps towards teaching skills.

I am not so much into the sensory integration area. It's not that my kids don't

have SI problems - they have a lot of them. It just that I've never seen any

advancements from SI therapy. I think SI is great in that it helps explain why

they are having the problems they have but I don't find the things you are

supposed to do to be that effective in fixing the problem. They just sort of

feed into the problem instead. I would prefer an OT to work on the fine motor

issues so many kids have, which can be improved with therapy. For some kids,

you do need accommodations made because learning to handle sensory overload is

not an over night thing. (My motto - pace yourself!) But I do think getting to

the point of being able to handle things is important.

I had a really rotten IEP meeting this past week for my 10 yo (HFA, 5th grade,

hyperlexic.) As he has gotten older, things get worse at school. I feel that

this is from two things A) the leaps NT kids are taking in development that tend

to come more slowly for my ds and the problem that some teachers have with

supplying supports to older kids who need help. Sometimes there are teachers or

entire school systems that feel a child should suddenly stop being autistic at a

certain age.

I also would like to say that this permissive culture was not around for my

older ds. He is almost 18 in another few weeks and he went through school the

hard way. He has HFA plus dyslexia. He never got help learning to read and no

help with social skills or anything else. He was just made to sit there and

suck it up. He finally fell apart as a junior in high school. He needed

accommodations and supports and they were spotty and badly supplied. We had a

lot of people who said they knew what to do to help but didn't. We wasted a lot

of time on ineffective ideas and people who would not just admit they didn't

know how to work with him. So in a lot of ways, I understand why he's given up

on the high school because I sure have. So I feel like even agreeing with you,

I can't always follow that path. I try and I want my kids to learn to be

independent, get a job and even have a few friends (asking too much????) but

getting there is the mother of all battles.

I just recently wrote a letter to our school sped head and complained because

they use an " autism consultant " who is not an expert in behavioral science. She

has made things worse in some cases and not helped at all in others. I

requested an FBA once to help figure out how to help my ds stay in school and

she wrote one without ever even looking at my kid once. If people are receiving

services like this, then there are good reasons why things are not so simple for

some of these kids! I am positive my school is not the only school in this

country to upgrade a former Kindergarten teacher to " autism consultant " and let

her design interventions for kids. When we as parents want our kids to learn

indepence skills and learn how to interact appropriately with others and when we

try to get that help and instead receive the shabby watered down version of

help, it is little wonder why kids are not doing much better than they are.

So I think that accommodations can be good things and if used appropriately, can

make the world of difference to a kid who is struggling to keep it together.

But behind those accommodations is a plan that makes sense and leads to learning

and gaining independence. That is a really hard thing to find, in my

experience. And trying to explain it to teachers (no, argue with them over it!)

can be so exhausting. Sometimes I have to reach up to feel frustrated - that

is how exhausted I am at dealing with the school nonsense. So remember that not

everyone is into the " culture of accommodation " for their kids. I often think

that the schools are actually less accommodating than they need to be and then

when they finally do agree to accommodate, they go over the other way and leave

out the steps to teaching the child.

Would love love love to read your book, and I sent you my address. I am

not up on the latest " VB " stuff. That is something I really want to learn

about, especially as I work with a now 5 yo who prefers not talking.

Roxanna

( ) The culture of Accommodation

Hi Roxanna and Group,

I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get

the best possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real difficult

time with some of these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep reading email

after email about kids who are getting kicked out of school, arrested, refusing

their parents wishes, and falling deeper and deeper into a self-centered

approach to life that will in many cases imprison these children in teenage and

adult lives of loneliness and strife. The number of young adults with Asperger's

who live with depression,

problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves. To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers who

don't seem to understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last 10 - 20

years there has been a culture that has developed which pushes parents and

teachers to accomodate for or manage the " sensory issues " , " inappropriate

behavior " and " self-centered thinking " that often comes with Asperger's

syndrome. This accomodation/behavior management approach has developed as a

backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the schools. When schools have

been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to overcome these issues and

accept the structure and authority of society, they began blaming the kids and

the parents. Without better teaching methods at their disposal they began

pushing authoritarian punishment procedures to levels that were completely

inappropriate for a child who is just living the best way he knows

To counter this, parents and advocates in the early 90's began the culture

that is now in existence that says that " my child's behavior is due to his

disability and not within his or our control. Because of this it is

inappropriate for you to punish him and instead you need to make modifications

and accomodations to allow him to be who he is within the context of the

school. " This is the belief and philosophy I see in most of the ideas and advice

that is shared on this group. My emotional reaction comes from the fact that it

appears that it is many of the children who have grown up within this culture of

accommodate and behavior manage that are now 13 -18 years old and are getting

kicked out of school or whose parents are having them arrested as last ditch

efforts to get them to understand the concept of consequence.

Some schools buy into the current accomodation philosophy and some do not. The

ones who do not are trying without the proper tools to get children to learn the

same social and behavioral expectations that other children live with. Although

this is in my estimation an appropraiate, ethical, and necessary goal, without

the right tools they will undoubtedly fail and then continue to blame the kids

or families.

The schools that do agree with this culture of accommodation will try their

best to work with the families and will accomodate and behavior manage. However,

with these schools the important goals of teaching the child to learn and live

with the same social and behavioral expectations as others goes out the window.

In these cases this accomodation goes on for years and years as the child

becomes older, smarter, but often less capable of interactiing in more typical

and appropriate ways. Leaving social rifts between the child with AS and his

typical peers and still a lack of respect and understanding for authority and

consequence.

In the old school way, they are trying to push your children without the

proper techniques to fit into social and societal structures that will

ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life. With the culture of accommodation

they are allowing for social and societal ineffectiveness with the goal to keep

your child in school. Either way, I am unhappy with the result and feel that as

a parent you should be as well.

What I want to see is chldren who are caringly and respectfully given a

comprehensive plan to systematically help them overcome the social, behavioral,

and sensory issues that come with AS. Not that anything is wrong with who they

are but because having a diagnosis should not be an excuse for us not to educate

someone. The idea is to have the highest level goals and expectations for all

kids, (on the spectrum or off) but to work toward these expections with the best

and most appropriate teaching techniques available. I want families not to be

talking about how do I get my child to leave the Christmas tree alone or how do

I get my child to not run out of the house, or push other kids, or say bad words

in school. I want the families on this group to be talking about how do I

comprehensively teach my child the value of following adult instructions and the

value of giving up some control in the short term for a larger long term goal of

social reciprocity. This is what a

comprehensive teaching approach like ABA/VB is offering. Not a " what do I do

when this happens " but a systematic way to interact with my child so that he

will begin to understand the consequences of inappropriate choices, the benefit

of following adult lead, and the social joy that comes from truly recipricol

relationships.

I know that there must be some families out there who see what I am saying and

feel that this makes sense. I am sure that I have probably offended many more

who believe that convincing the school to accommodate for a child with AS's

every need is what is best for their child. I have no desire to argue with

people who feel that way but will happily debate the benefits and problems with

these approaches (as I have with Luiz and others in the past). Truthfully, I am

hoping to reach the families out there who are are still looking for a way to

have it all. A young adult who lives like most others, one who is able to make

behavioral and social choices that will allow him to stay in school, find and

keep a job, have real friends and truly use what makes him unique to build a

life filled with happiness.

It is for those families that I sent out the 7 steps to earning instructional

control. Those seven steps are the foundation to all teaching that I feel you

should be doing with your child. Keep caring control over the things your child

finds reinforcing, pair yourself with positive things 75% of the time you are

with your child so that he sees the benefit of maintaining your social

interactions. Give lots of simple instructions and when complied with be sure

that those instructions always meet with some form of positive reinforcement,

social and tangable. Then when a child refuses, do not allow that type of

behavior to meet with reinforcement, motivating the child to try different ways

to regain access to his favorite things as well as your interactions (which

through pairing will now be more motivating in itself). In other words

systematically capture and use your child's motivation in ways that teaches him

better relationship and behavior skills. All of which can be

done without ever forcing your child to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Instead you are setting up the environment so that he will want to do the things

you know are beneficial for him.

Unfortunately, the most efficient way I can share this information is through

my book (which is why I wrote it). I know, I know, " Why is on this list?

he is just trying to make a buck. " The truth is I cannot make anywhere near

enough money as a first time author to ever repay the amount of time and effort

I put into these groups offering ideas and sharing advice. Additionally, I am

totally willing to pay my dues by maintaining a membership and to offer advice

as I continue to learn from all of you. I just feel that the current culture of

accomodate and behavior/manage (although better than what came before it) is

still counterproductive to your ultimate goals as parents and teachers and is so

pervasive that it seems to creep into the advice of most of the emails sent on

this group.

To this end I would like to make an offer. Anyone who would be interested in

reading a free copy of my book and offering a thoughtful, unbiased account of

its worth to the other members of this group, can email me privately. I will

send out 3 or 4 copies to those who are truly interested in considering another

option to the current culture of accomodate and behavior manage and are willing

to share their opinion of this option to your groupmates.

Roxanna, since you are a moderator on this group. If you would like to be one

of the reviewers, let me know if you are interested, I will gladly send you a

copy as well. Anyone else who is interested, email me a brief history of your

situation. How old is your child, what are you biggest problems what have been

your biggest successes. I will try to pick a few people with varied experiences

and send them a free copy. (By the way, no copy I send is free, depending on

where you live it will cost me $10-20 per book I send out (that is the life of a

first time author). But to me it is worth it if I can help spark a new culture

in the AS world that offers the best of both worlds. One that maintains the

highest expectations, and goals and one that can ethically and caringly teach

toward those expectations, regardless of the difficulty of the dx.

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.com

________________________

__________________________________________________________

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.

Ask your question on www.Answers.

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Sorry for the delay in response, e-mail issues

I am interested in your book. Seeing that my daughter is 3yo and we are

relatively new to the AS world we are trying to make the best choices and

decisions for her. I do believe that in everything we do for/with her it is a

tight rope balancing act. We try to balance how much we except of her, how far

we can push her and when and how much we can accommodate to help her. I believe

she is responsible for her actions even if they are a result of an AS issue or

SID issue. She is learning and we are learning

Feel free to contact me personally,

- C.

Mom to Cassie 15 PCOS, Austin 13 ADHD and a 3 HFA/AS & SPD/SID

cartersx5@...

( ) The culture of Accommodation

Hi Roxanna and Group,

I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get

the best possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real difficult

time with some of these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep reading email

after email about kids who are getting kicked out of school, arrested, refusing

their parents wishes, and falling deeper and deeper into a self-centered

approach to life that will in many cases imprison these children in teenage and

adult lives of loneliness and strife. The number of young adults with Asperger's

who live with depression,

problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves. To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers who

don't seem to understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last 10 - 20

years there has been a culture that has developed which pushes parents and

teachers to accomodate for or manage the " sensory issues " , " inappropriate

behavior " and " self-centered thinking " that often comes with Asperger's

syndrome. This accomodation/behavior management approach has developed as a

backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the schools. When schools have

been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to overcome these issues and

accept the structure and authority of society, they began blaming the kids and

the parents. Without better teaching methods at their disposal they began

pushing authoritarian punishment procedures to levels that were completely

inappropriate for a child who is just living the best way he knows

To counter this, parents and advocates in the early 90's began the culture

that is now in existence that says that " my child's behavior is due to his

disability and not within his or our control. Because of this it is

inappropriate for you to punish him and instead you need to make modifications

and accomodations to allow him to be who he is within the context of the

school. " This is the belief and philosophy I see in most of the ideas and advice

that is shared on this group. My emotional reaction comes from the fact that it

appears that it is many of the children who have grown up within this culture of

accommodate and behavior manage that are now 13 -18 years old and are getting

kicked out of school or whose parents are having them arrested as last ditch

efforts to get them to understand the concept of consequence.

Some schools buy into the current accomodation philosophy and some do not. The

ones who do not are trying without the proper tools to get children to learn the

same social and behavioral expectations that other children live with. Although

this is in my estimation an appropraiate, ethical, and necessary goal, without

the right tools they will undoubtedly fail and then continue to blame the kids

or families.

The schools that do agree with this culture of accommodation will try their

best to work with the families and will accomodate and behavior manage. However,

with these schools the important goals of teaching the child to learn and live

with the same social and behavioral expectations as others goes out the window.

In these cases this accomodation goes on for years and years as the child

becomes older, smarter, but often less capable of interactiing in more typical

and appropriate ways. Leaving social rifts between the child with AS and his

typical peers and still a lack of respect and understanding for authority and

consequence.

In the old school way, they are trying to push your children without the

proper techniques to fit into social and societal structures that will

ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life. With the culture of accommodation

they are allowing for social and societal ineffectiveness with the goal to keep

your child in school. Either way, I am unhappy with the result and feel that as

a parent you should be as well.

What I want to see is chldren who are caringly and respectfully given a

comprehensive plan to systematically help them overcome the social, behavioral,

and sensory issues that come with AS. Not that anything is wrong with who they

are but because having a diagnosis should not be an excuse for us not to educate

someone. The idea is to have the highest level goals and expectations for all

kids, (on the spectrum or off) but to work toward these expections with the best

and most appropriate teaching techniques available. I want families not to be

talking about how do I get my child to leave the Christmas tree alone or how do

I get my child to not run out of the house, or push other kids, or say bad words

in school. I want the families on this group to be talking about how do I

comprehensively teach my child the value of following adult instructions and the

value of giving up some control in the short term for a larger long term goal of

social reciprocity. This is what a

comprehensive teaching approach like ABA/VB is offering. Not a " what do I do

when this happens " but a systematic way to interact with my child so that he

will begin to understand the consequences of inappropriate choices, the benefit

of following adult lead, and the social joy that comes from truly recipricol

relationships.

I know that there must be some families out there who see what I am saying and

feel that this makes sense. I am sure that I have probably offended many more

who believe that convincing the school to accommodate for a child with AS's

every need is what is best for their child. I have no desire to argue with

people who feel that way but will happily debate the benefits and problems with

these approaches (as I have with Luiz and others in the past). Truthfully, I am

hoping to reach the families out there who are are still looking for a way to

have it all. A young adult who lives like most others, one who is able to make

behavioral and social choices that will allow him to stay in school, find and

keep a job, have real friends and truly use what makes him unique to build a

life filled with happiness.

It is for those families that I sent out the 7 steps to earning instructional

control. Those seven steps are the foundation to all teaching that I feel you

should be doing with your child. Keep caring control over the things your child

finds reinforcing, pair yourself with positive things 75% of the time you are

with your child so that he sees the benefit of maintaining your social

interactions. Give lots of simple instructions and when complied with be sure

that those instructions always meet with some form of positive reinforcement,

social and tangable. Then when a child refuses, do not allow that type of

behavior to meet with reinforcement, motivating the child to try different ways

to regain access to his favorite things as well as your interactions (which

through pairing will now be more motivating in itself). In other words

systematically capture and use your child's motivation in ways that teaches him

better relationship and behavior skills. All of which can be

done without ever forcing your child to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Instead you are setting up the environment so that he will want to do the things

you know are beneficial for him.

Unfortunately, the most efficient way I can share this information is through

my book (which is why I wrote it). I know, I know, " Why is on this list?

he is just trying to make a buck. " The truth is I cannot make anywhere near

enough money as a first time author to ever repay the amount of time and effort

I put into these groups offering ideas and sharing advice. Additionally, I am

totally willing to pay my dues by maintaining a membership and to offer advice

as I continue to learn from all of you. I just feel that the current culture of

accomodate and behavior/manage (although better than what came before it) is

still counterproductive to your ultimate goals as parents and teachers and is so

pervasive that it seems to creep into the advice of most of the emails sent on

this group.

To this end I would like to make an offer. Anyone who would be interested in

reading a free copy of my book and offering a thoughtful, unbiased account of

its worth to the other members of this group, can email me privately. I will

send out 3 or 4 copies to those who are truly interested in considering another

option to the current culture of accomodate and behavior manage and are willing

to share their opinion of this option to your groupmates.

Roxanna, since you are a moderator on this group. If you would like to be one

of the reviewers, let me know if you are interested, I will gladly send you a

copy as well. Anyone else who is interested, email me a brief history of your

situation. How old is your child, what are you biggest problems what have been

your biggest successes. I will try to pick a few people with varied experiences

and send them a free copy. (By the way, no copy I send is free, depending on

where you live it will cost me $10-20 per book I send out (that is the life of a

first time author). But to me it is worth it if I can help spark a new culture

in the AS world that offers the best of both worlds. One that maintains the

highest expectations, and goals and one that can ethically and caringly teach

toward those expectations, regardless of the difficulty of the dx.

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.com

________________________

__________________________________________________________

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.

Ask your question on www.Answers.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/16/2006 8:27:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

madideas@... writes:

.. I often think that the schools are actually less accommodating than they

need to be

Hi,

I think the schools could change for ALL kids anyway. I remember school,

and when my son told me he hated it I remember feeling the same way. High

school especially! I don't know anyone who liked high school. For example: it is

a known fact that no teacher cannot effectively teach a class of larger than

20 kids, but they want class sizes over thirty? Many schools in Europe and

other countries let kids finish at 16 if they meet educational requirements and

have very flexible and accommodating schools for all kids not just " special

needs. " If a kid wants to go on to trade school they go at 16, and if a kid

wants

to go to college and is doing good they can start at 17 (some schools in this

country are now letting kids take college courses over their junior year in

high school). I also think if accommodations were across the board in some

respects maybe our kids would not be so different and maybe not even picked on

as

much by the kids without services who might feel like they need help too (or

just really really hate school). thanks, Meg

[Guest guest]

Hi Roxanna,

I agree with much of what you write below. I also do not see SI as more than a

group of very fun reinforcing activities that kids enjoy. I have seen no real

evidence of any long term benefit. I understand that your older child went

through school without accomodation. Even though I am against the current

culture of accomodation it is not because I think it was better before. In

fact, without the proper tools in place, I would rather accommodate then force

punishement procedures down a child's throught. My main point is that although

accommodation is better than what came before it, it is still far from optimal.

What we need to strive for is an understanding of how to address a child's

deficits with postiive behavioral means so that the child can constantly be on

the journey toward recovery.(whether achieving that level of progress is ever in

the cards for them or not).

I am really glad that you will be reading a copy of my book and I hope you share

your thoughts about it with the other members of this group.

Happy Holidays,

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.com

________________________

( ) The culture of Accommodation

Hi Roxanna and Group,

I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get the

best possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real difficult

time with some of these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep reading email

after email about kids who are getting kicked out of school, arrested, refusing

their parents wishes, and falling deeper and deeper into a self-centered

approach to life that will in many cases imprison these children in teenage and

adult lives of loneliness and strife. The number of young adults with Asperger's

who live with depression,

problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves. To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers who

don't seem to understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last 10 - 20

years there has been a culture that has developed which pushes parents and

teachers to accomodate for or manage the " sensory issues " , " inappropriate

behavior " and " self-centered thinking " that often comes with Asperger's

syndrome. This accomodation/ behavior management approach has developed as a

backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the schools. When schools have

been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to overcome these issues and

accept the structure and authority of society, they began blaming the kids and

the parents. Without better teaching methods at their disposal they began

pushing authoritarian punishment procedures to levels that were completely

inappropriate for a child who is just living the best way he knows

To counter this, parents and advocates in the early 90's began the culture that

is now in existence that says that " my child's behavior is due to his disability

and not within his or our control. Because of this it is inappropriate for you

to punish him and instead you need to make modifications and accomodations to

allow him to be who he is within the context of the school. " This is the belief

and philosophy I see in most of the ideas and advice that is shared on this

group. My emotional reaction comes from the fact that it appears that it is many

of the children who have grown up within this culture of accommodate and

behavior manage that are now 13 -18 years old and are getting kicked out of

school or whose parents are having them arrested as last ditch efforts to get

them to understand the concept of consequence.

Some schools buy into the current accomodation philosophy and some do not. The

ones who do not are trying without the proper tools to get children to learn the

same social and behavioral expectations that other children live with. Although

this is in my estimation an appropraiate, ethical, and necessary goal, without

the right tools they will undoubtedly fail and then continue to blame the kids

or families.

The schools that do agree with this culture of accommodation will try their best

to work with the families and will accomodate and behavior manage. However, with

these schools the important goals of teaching the child to learn and live with

the same social and behavioral expectations as others goes out the window. In

these cases this accomodation goes on for years and years as the child becomes

older, smarter, but often less capable of interactiing in more typical and

appropriate ways. Leaving social rifts between the child with AS and his typical

peers and still a lack of respect and understanding for authority and

consequence.

In the old school way, they are trying to push your children without the proper

techniques to fit into social and societal structures that will ultimately lead

to a more fulfilling life. With the culture of accommodation they are allowing

for social and societal ineffectiveness with the goal to keep your child in

school. Either way, I am unhappy with the result and feel that as a parent you

should be as well.

What I want to see is chldren who are caringly and respectfully given a

comprehensive plan to systematically help them overcome the social, behavioral,

and sensory issues that come with AS. Not that anything is wrong with who they

are but because having a diagnosis should not be an excuse for us not to educate

someone. The idea is to have the highest level goals and expectations for all

kids, (on the spectrum or off) but to work toward these expections with the best

and most appropriate teaching techniques available. I want families not to be

talking about how do I get my child to leave the Christmas tree alone or how do

I get my child to not run out of the house, or push other kids, or say bad words

in school. I want the families on this group to be talking about how do I

comprehensively teach my child the value of following adult instructions and the

value of giving up some control in the short term for a larger long term goal of

social reciprocity. This is what a

comprehensive teaching approach like ABA/VB is offering. Not a " what do I do

when this happens " but a systematic way to interact with my child so that he

will begin to understand the consequences of inappropriate choices, the benefit

of following adult lead, and the social joy that comes from truly recipricol

relationships.

I know that there must be some families out there who see what I am saying and

feel that this makes sense. I am sure that I have probably offended many more

who believe that convincing the school to accommodate for a child with AS's

every need is what is best for their child. I have no desire to argue with

people who feel that way but will happily debate the benefits and problems with

these approaches (as I have with Luiz and others in the past). Truthfully, I am

hoping to reach the families out there who are are still looking for a way to

have it all. A young adult who lives like most others, one who is able to make

behavioral and social choices that will allow him to stay in school, find and

keep a job, have real friends and truly use what makes him unique to build a

life filled with happiness.

It is for those families that I sent out the 7 steps to earning instructional

control. Those seven steps are the foundation to all teaching that I feel you

should be doing with your child. Keep caring control over the things your child

finds reinforcing, pair yourself with positive things 75% of the time you are

with your child so that he sees the benefit of maintaining your social

interactions. Give lots of simple instructions and when complied with be sure

that those instructions always meet with some form of positive reinforcement,

social and tangable. Then when a child refuses, do not allow that type of

behavior to meet with reinforcement, motivating the child to try different ways

to regain access to his favorite things as well as your interactions (which

through pairing will now be more motivating in itself). In other words

systematically capture and use your child's motivation in ways that teaches him

better relationship and behavior skills. All of which can be

done without ever forcing your child to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Instead you are setting up the environment so that he will want to do the things

you know are beneficial for him.

Unfortunately, the most efficient way I can share this information is through my

book (which is why I wrote it). I know, I know, " Why is on this list? he

is just trying to make a buck. " The truth is I cannot make anywhere near enough

money as a first time author to ever repay the amount of time and effort I put

into these groups offering ideas and sharing advice. Additionally, I am totally

willing to pay my dues by maintaining a membership and to offer advice as I

continue to learn from all of you. I just feel that the current culture of

accomodate and behavior/manage (although better than what came before it) is

still counterproductive to your ultimate goals as parents and teachers and is so

pervasive that it seems to creep into the advice of most of the emails sent on

this group.

To this end I would like to make an offer. Anyone who would be interested in

reading a free copy of my book and offering a thoughtful, unbiased account of

its worth to the other members of this group, can email me privately. I will

send out 3 or 4 copies to those who are truly interested in considering another

option to the current culture of accomodate and behavior manage and are willing

to share their opinion of this option to your groupmates.

Roxanna, since you are a moderator on this group. If you would like to be one of

the reviewers, let me know if you are interested, I will gladly send you a copy

as well. Anyone else who is interested, email me a brief history of your

situation. How old is your child, what are you biggest problems what have been

your biggest successes. I will try to pick a few people with varied experiences

and send them a free copy. (By the way, no copy I send is free, depending on

where you live it will cost me $10-20 per book I send out (that is the life of a

first time author). But to me it is worth it if I can help spark a new culture

in the AS world that offers the best of both worlds. One that maintains the

highest expectations, and goals and one that can ethically and caringly teach

toward those expectations, regardless of the difficulty of the dx.

____________ _________ ___

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/ knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba. com

____________ _________ ___

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.

Ask your question on www.Answers.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

Thanks for your email. There is so much more to a good behavioral education

then being consequent and pushing our kids past their comfort level. Although,

as you state, those are important aspects for growth, they can be accomplished

in a way that allows you still to be the snuggly mom. When proper care is taken

to address behavioral needs with the proper procedures and amount of pairing

time. If reinforcement is positive and extinction is used instead of positive

punishement, and if you are teaching in a way that your child will not see it as

being different from having fun, then you can be the snuggly mom you want to be

and still keep a tight behavioral ship. The key is understanding motivation and

being able to offer your child important instructions when you are in a strong

motivational position. When this happens your child will be more likely to

comply and you can spend most of your time in positive fun reinforcing

interactions. It is when you ask for things

that you cannot assure your child will be motivated to do that you are

constantly going to find yourself in power struggles. Do a little research,

read a few books on Verbal Behavior. I think you will be surprised at how

natural and child friendly it seems to what you might have previously thought of

behavioral education.

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.com

________________________

( ) Re: The culture of Accommodation

, I think I take an approach that's halfway between the Culture of

Accommodation

and the idea that the kid needs to learn to function in society the way it is

and not expect

the world to accommodate his differences. What I'm doing is pushing the school

mostly to

accommodate my youngest child (8yo) while working on his issues, and, OTOH,

backing

the school in mostly pushing my oldest child (15yo) to deal with the world the

way it is

while still providing minor accommodations. The difference in my approach isn't

due to

the fact that the older child is getting to the age where he's not going to have

any choice

any more, so I've suddenly realized that I've been following the wrong approach

all along.

It's due to the fact that my atypical children grow and develop more ability to

manage

themselves as they get older just like my typical children do, so I expect more

of them.

What I would look for in an aide (which, BTW, we've never had for any of the

kids) wouldn't

be someone who could make my kid's experience of life as smooth as possible, but

someone who would smooth what the kid *can't* handle, while encouraging

independence

in ways that the child *can* handle and pushing (all the time) just a little bit

for

independence in areas that the child finds uncomfortable. I believe that there

are always

ways that a child is capable of improving, and that what we're looking for is

how to push

for the next little increment of improvement. The idea is to keep the child just

a little bit

out of his comfort zone, but not force him so far out of it that he shuts down

or overloads

to the point that his behavior becomes a problem for everyone. It's the approach

I took

while I was home schooling my kids, and I believe it's how I improved their

behavior to the

point that they were capable of going back to mainstream classrooms after a

couple of

years.

This is slightly different from the approach I take with my more typical kids.

They don't

need me to be that source of constant, minor, pressure in their life because

they learn

these things without my intervention. In their cases, I think of my role as a

matter of fine

tuning social responses that are basically within the normal range. I push

sometimes, but

not all the time. With my atypical kids, I'm always on alert. Is he ready to be

pushed a

little bit further toward normal? When does he need comfort? When does he need a

shove? As the kids grow older and learn what I'm teaching them, the shoving

starts to

take precedence over the comforting.

I think that it's unfortunate that this method means that I'm a constant source

of minor

discomfort for my atypical children. I wish I could just be their snuggly mom,

but they

need me to compensate for the fact that they don't just learn a lot of important

things

naturally. I don't see a way for that to happen, given the large amount of

material they

need help learning, if we don't more or less 'stay on task' more or less all the

time. (BTW,

all of this is done with tons of snuggles and encouragement- -because, in my

experience,

that's what works.)

Does that make sense?

Sue C.

>

> Hi Roxanna and Group,

>

> I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get

the best

possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real difficult time

with some of

these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep reading email after email about

kids who

are getting kicked out of school, arrested, refusing their parents wishes, and

falling

deeper and deeper into a self-centered approach to life that will in many cases

imprison

these children in teenage and adult lives of loneliness and strife. The number

of young

adults with Asperger's who live with depression,

> problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

>

> I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves.

To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers who don't seem to

understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last 10 - 20 years there

has been a

culture that has developed which pushes parents and teachers to accomodate for

or

manage the " sensory issues " , " inappropriate behavior " and " self-centered

thinking " that

often comes with Asperger's syndrome. This accomodation/ behavior management

approach has developed as a backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the

schools.

When schools have been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to overcome

these

issues and accept the structure and authority of society, they began blaming the

kids and

the parents. Without better teaching methods at their disposal they began

pushing

authoritarian punishment procedures to levels that were completely inappropriate

for a

child who is just living the best way he knows

> how.

[i snipped the rest of the post, not because I disagree with it, but because of

not wanting

to clutter up the digest with lengthy repeats]

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I already agreed to send the books to

families that emailed before you. Roxanna is getting one and I agreed to send

out 3 more to other families who emailed with some pretty severe concerns as

well. I do like your teaching mentality and think the book will be of benefit to

you, I just only had so many to give. Look to this site for future reviews from

the books I shared and if you decide that you want to try it for yourself you

can find it at www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.com

________________________

( ) The culture of Accommodation

Hi Roxanna and Group,

I really care about the families on this list and would like them all to get the

best possible advice. I am emailing now because I am having a real difficult

time with some of these issues emotionally. The problem is I keep reading email

after email about kids who are getting kicked out of school, arrested, refusing

their parents wishes, and falling deeper and deeper into a self-centered

approach to life that will in many cases imprison these children in teenage and

adult lives of loneliness and strife. The number of young adults with Asperger's

who live with depression,

problems with authority, and social isolation is overwhelming.

I don't blame the parents for these kids problems nor do I blame the kids

themselves. To some degree I do not even blame the principles and teachers who

don't seem to understand. The problem as I see it is this. Over the last 10 - 20

years there has been a culture that has developed which pushes parents and

teachers to accomodate for or manage the " sensory issues " , " inappropriate

behavior " and " self-centered thinking " that often comes with Asperger's

syndrome. This accomodation/ behavior management approach has developed as a

backlash to the ineffective teaching methods of the schools. When schools have

been unable to help teach children with Aperger's to overcome these issues and

accept the structure and authority of society, they began blaming the kids and

the parents. Without better teaching methods at their disposal they began

pushing authoritarian punishment procedures to levels that were completely

inappropriate for a child who is just living the best way he knows

To counter this, parents and advocates in the early 90's began the culture that

is now in existence that says that " my child's behavior is due to his disability

and not within his or our control. Because of this it is inappropriate for you

to punish him and instead you need to make modifications and accomodations to

allow him to be who he is within the context of the school. " This is the belief

and philosophy I see in most of the ideas and advice that is shared on this

group. My emotional reaction comes from the fact that it appears that it is many

of the children who have grown up within this culture of accommodate and

behavior manage that are now 13 -18 years old and are getting kicked out of

school or whose parents are having them arrested as last ditch efforts to get

them to understand the concept of consequence.

Some schools buy into the current accomodation philosophy and some do not. The

ones who do not are trying without the proper tools to get children to learn the

same social and behavioral expectations that other children live with. Although

this is in my estimation an appropraiate, ethical, and necessary goal, without

the right tools they will undoubtedly fail and then continue to blame the kids

or families.

The schools that do agree with this culture of accommodation will try their best

to work with the families and will accomodate and behavior manage. However, with

these schools the important goals of teaching the child to learn and live with

the same social and behavioral expectations as others goes out the window. In

these cases this accomodation goes on for years and years as the child becomes

older, smarter, but often less capable of interactiing in more typical and

appropriate ways. Leaving social rifts between the child with AS and his typical

peers and still a lack of respect and understanding for authority and

consequence.

In the old school way, they are trying to push your children without the proper

techniques to fit into social and societal structures that will ultimately lead

to a more fulfilling life. With the culture of accommodation they are allowing

for social and societal ineffectiveness with the goal to keep your child in

school. Either way, I am unhappy with the result and feel that as a parent you

should be as well.

What I want to see is chldren who are caringly and respectfully given a

comprehensive plan to systematically help them overcome the social, behavioral,

and sensory issues that come with AS. Not that anything is wrong with who they

are but because having a diagnosis should not be an excuse for us not to educate

someone. The idea is to have the highest level goals and expectations for all

kids, (on the spectrum or off) but to work toward these expections with the best

and most appropriate teaching techniques available. I want families not to be

talking about how do I get my child to leave the Christmas tree alone or how do

I get my child to not run out of the house, or push other kids, or say bad words

in school. I want the families on this group to be talking about how do I

comprehensively teach my child the value of following adult instructions and the

value of giving up some control in the short term for a larger long term goal of

social reciprocity. This is what a

comprehensive teaching approach like ABA/VB is offering. Not a " what do I do

when this happens " but a systematic way to interact with my child so that he

will begin to understand the consequences of inappropriate choices, the benefit

of following adult lead, and the social joy that comes from truly recipricol

relationships.

I know that there must be some families out there who see what I am saying and

feel that this makes sense. I am sure that I have probably offended many more

who believe that convincing the school to accommodate for a child with AS's

every need is what is best for their child. I have no desire to argue with

people who feel that way but will happily debate the benefits and problems with

these approaches (as I have with Luiz and others in the past). Truthfully, I am

hoping to reach the families out there who are are still looking for a way to

have it all. A young adult who lives like most others, one who is able to make

behavioral and social choices that will allow him to stay in school, find and

keep a job, have real friends and truly use what makes him unique to build a

life filled with happiness.

It is for those families that I sent out the 7 steps to earning instructional

control. Those seven steps are the foundation to all teaching that I feel you

should be doing with your child. Keep caring control over the things your child

finds reinforcing, pair yourself with positive things 75% of the time you are

with your child so that he sees the benefit of maintaining your social

interactions. Give lots of simple instructions and when complied with be sure

that those instructions always meet with some form of positive reinforcement,

social and tangable. Then when a child refuses, do not allow that type of

behavior to meet with reinforcement, motivating the child to try different ways

to regain access to his favorite things as well as your interactions (which

through pairing will now be more motivating in itself). In other words

systematically capture and use your child's motivation in ways that teaches him

better relationship and behavior skills. All of which can be

done without ever forcing your child to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Instead you are setting up the environment so that he will want to do the things

you know are beneficial for him.

Unfortunately, the most efficient way I can share this information is through my

book (which is why I wrote it). I know, I know, " Why is on this list? he

is just trying to make a buck. " The truth is I cannot make anywhere near enough

money as a first time author to ever repay the amount of time and effort I put

into these groups offering ideas and sharing advice. Additionally, I am totally

willing to pay my dues by maintaining a membership and to offer advice as I

continue to learn from all of you. I just feel that the current culture of

accomodate and behavior/manage (although better than what came before it) is

still counterproductive to your ultimate goals as parents and teachers and is so

pervasive that it seems to creep into the advice of most of the emails sent on

this group.

To this end I would like to make an offer. Anyone who would be interested in

reading a free copy of my book and offering a thoughtful, unbiased account of

its worth to the other members of this group, can email me privately. I will

send out 3 or 4 copies to those who are truly interested in considering another

option to the current culture of accomodate and behavior manage and are willing

to share their opinion of this option to your groupmates.

Roxanna, since you are a moderator on this group. If you would like to be one of

the reviewers, let me know if you are interested, I will gladly send you a copy

as well. Anyone else who is interested, email me a brief history of your

situation. How old is your child, what are you biggest problems what have been

your biggest successes. I will try to pick a few people with varied experiences

and send them a free copy. (By the way, no copy I send is free, depending on

where you live it will cost me $10-20 per book I send out (that is the life of a

first time author). But to me it is worth it if I can help spark a new culture

in the AS world that offers the best of both worlds. One that maintains the

highest expectations, and goals and one that can ethically and caringly teach

toward those expectations, regardless of the difficulty of the dx.

____________ _________ ___

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/ knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba. com

____________ _________ ___

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.

Ask your question on www.Answers.

[Guest guest]

Isn't that funny but I liked high school. I guess that comes from growing up in

a dysfunctional family. My dh hated high school and couldn't wait to leave. He

thinks people who liked high school are weird (me!)

Kids here in our town can start attending " the career center " as junior's. At

the career center, they take core academics but they also take trade classes -

computers, teaching, etc. They can either go into careers from there or they

can go on to college with more confidence. I think it's a good option for kids

who want something different.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) The culture of Accommodation

In a message dated 12/16/2006 8:27:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

madideas@... writes:

. I often think that the schools are actually less accommodating than they

need to be

Hi,

I think the schools could change for ALL kids anyway. I remember school,

and when my son told me he hated it I remember feeling the same way. High

school especially! I don't know anyone who liked high school. For example: it

is

a known fact that no teacher cannot effectively teach a class of larger than

20 kids, but they want class sizes over thirty? Many schools in Europe and

other countries let kids finish at 16 if they meet educational requirements

and

have very flexible and accommodating schools for all kids not just " special

needs. " If a kid wants to go on to trade school they go at 16, and if a kid

wants

to go to college and is doing good they can start at 17 (some schools in this

country are now letting kids take college courses over their junior year in

high school). I also think if accommodations were across the board in some

respects maybe our kids would not be so different and maybe not even picked on

as

much by the kids without services who might feel like they need help too (or

just really really hate school). thanks, Meg

[Guest guest]

Wow, I wish we had had an option like that for . I think he

would have liked that. His grades came today, and he did pretty well,

considering how disorganized he was throughout the semester. This

semester we're going to have him work with a life coach. She wrote

the book " Asperger's Syndrome: An Owner's Manual. " His favorite

course last semester was psychology. He's going to take adolescent

psychology from the same professor next semester. HA Self awareness

anyone?

I hated high school, but loved middle school. We had a very

interesting curriculum in middle school, that made it stimulating

and fun. And I had good friends. My high school was just too big.

There were 1000 kids in my graduating class. You could appear in

class or not and nobody much cared.

DD is coming home for the holiday. She can't wait and I can't either.

Fortunately, no flying through Denver!

Liz

On Dec 22, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Roxanna wrote:

> Isn't that funny but I liked high school. I guess that comes from

> growing up in a dysfunctional family. My dh hated high school and

> couldn't wait to leave. He thinks people who liked high school are

> weird (me!)

>

> Kids here in our town can start attending " the career center " as

> junior's. At the career center, they take core academics but they

> also take trade classes - computers, teaching, etc. They can either

> go into careers from there or they can go on to college with more

> confidence. I think it's a good option for kids who want something

> different.

>

> Roxanna

> Re: ( ) The culture of Accommodation

>

> In a message dated 12/16/2006 8:27:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> madideas@... writes:

> . I often think that the schools are actually less accommodating

> than they

> need to be

> Hi,

> I think the schools could change for ALL kids anyway. I remember

> school,

> and when my son told me he hated it I remember feeling the same

> way. High

> school especially! I don't know anyone who liked high school. For

> example: it is

> a known fact that no teacher cannot effectively teach a class of

> larger than

> 20 kids, but they want class sizes over thirty? Many schools in

> Europe and

> other countries let kids finish at 16 if they meet educational

> requirements and

> have very flexible and accommodating schools for all kids not just

> " special

> needs. " If a kid wants to go on to trade school they go at 16, and

> if a kid wants

> to go to college and is doing good they can start at 17 (some

> schools in this

> country are now letting kids take college courses over their junior

> year in

> high school). I also think if accommodations were across the board

> in some

> respects maybe our kids would not be so different and maybe not

> even picked on as

> much by the kids without services who might feel like they need

> help too (or

> just really really hate school). thanks, Meg

>

>