Re: AS versus Autism

January 17, 2007

You are so right. It has been so difficult to me (I still struggle) to

understand how AS syndrome could be classified within the Autism spectrum. there

are

so many differences. This was a reason why my child went through such a

difficult time during elementary public school, nowhere to be placed. ( She is

doing very well in private school, no special services, small classes and high

learning standards) She is 15 and a typical AS, she'll always be, and this makes

me live on allert all the time, but it makes me admire her talents and

geniality. She'll be a HS Senior next year and I wonder what will be next for

her. I

pray to God for all our children.

Ana

January 17, 2007

I am new to this because my DS was just dx wil As last week but i thought that

Asperger's is a form of high functioning Autism..no?

ttfndj <ttfndj@...> wrote: Please tell me

if I am splitting hairs, being overprotective, or in

denial - I am a newbie with a small attitude problem.

The elementary school insists on saying has autism instead of

AS. The school system does not recognize AS, and umbrellas it under

autism.

The major majority of today's society understands autism as a low-

functioning, sometimes non-verbal disorder. This does not define my

son.

I feel that if AS is different enough from autism to be given its own

name, then the school should honor my request and not describe

as autistic.

We don't look at an apple and call it pear. Yes, they are both

fruit, they both grow on trees, and have seeds and stems. They even

have the same growing season. But one is still an apple and the other

is still a pear.

Our children have Asperger's. Whether you call it Asperger's

Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome doesn't matter. But please don't

call it Autism. If it is different enough to warrant it's own name,

then the name should be used.

No? Comments?

And as a clarification, by no means do I feel that AS children

are " better " than autistic children...just different in their

uniqueness.

Deej Tasker

January 17, 2007

That's the way it works in my son's school too. He has AS (which is a name

under the autism spectrum) but he is considered a child who has autism. I see

your frustration. There is a big difference in a severe autistic child & a

child with Asperger's. I don't see that there will be a time in the near future

when AS is pulled out of the Autistic spectrum category. But, that's just my

opinion.

Liz

Houston

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January 17, 2007

Well...I always felt my son (almost age 18) had autistic traits. He

was diagnosed with HFA/Aspergers. So " autism " comes to mind for me.

I just say it (Aspergers) is on the autism spectrum when someone

hasn't heard of it.

I know what you are saying about others understanding, thinking lower-

functioning.... With my previous job as office support at a local

mental health center, the case managers I typed for had mostly

clients with at least an MR diagnosis. Some had other diagnoses.

And some had " autism. " One had an HFA diagnosis. Well - when I was

given HFA as a possible diagnosis for , I was like, " WHAT??

no, I think he has Aspergers! " But - that was because the person I

knew of with HFA was so different from . I had to be reminded

that it is a " long " spectrum, even in the same diagnosis name; that

some people are on the lower end, some higher, traits & degrees

affected by traits differ with each person.... We ended up with

HFA/Aspergers for . The sticking point there was they felt he

had a language delay, I didn't. So the official report gave both.

has been labeled in school as gifted/LD.

OK - I cheerfully disagree and I am fine with my son being put under

the heading of autism with his ASyn diagnosis.

single mom, 3 sons

>

> Please tell me if I am splitting hairs, being overprotective, or in

> denial - I am a newbie with a small attitude problem.

>

> The elementary school insists on saying has autism instead of

> AS. The school system does not recognize AS, and umbrellas it

under

> autism.

>

> The major majority of today's society understands autism as a low-

> functioning, sometimes non-verbal disorder. This does not define my

> son.

January 17, 2007

Deej,

I am lucky that my school system understands Asperger's Syndrome at least to a

point, when I saw my son's file at our last meeting in HUGE letters it said

Autistic but right next to it it also read Asperger's Syndrome. My problem was

that Austism was in huge letters, I agree with you I don't believe AS is better

then autistic kids but they each have their own unique take on life etc.

But others who don't understand the difference make my son feel stupid so he

stops trying.

For him its more a matter of respect if he feels anyone including a grown up

doesn't respect him he won't try no more, he once told me " Why do I have to be

respectful when they are not respectful of me and basically tell me that I am

stupid " from the mouths of babes...I mean he shows respect etc when its needed

but if a teacher acts like he is stupid etc he won't participate in class and he

won't do the school work " Why should I they think I am stupid anyway " but the

teachers who treat him nicely etc and love his uniqueness he thrives and gets

A's and B's...so how do you tell a teacher this without them thinking you are

being overprotective etc.

White

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( ) AS versus Autism

Please tell me if I am splitting hairs, being overprotective, or in

denial - I am a newbie with a small attitude problem.

The elementary school insists on saying has autism instead of

AS. The school system does not recognize AS, and umbrellas it under

autism.

The major majority of today's society understands autism as a low-

functioning, sometimes non-verbal disorder. This does not define my

son.

I feel that if AS is different enough from autism to be given its own

name, then the school should honor my request and not describe

as autistic.

We don't look at an apple and call it pear. Yes, they are both

fruit, they both grow on trees, and have seeds and stems. They even

have the same growing season. But one is still an apple and the other

is still a pear.

Our children have Asperger's. Whether you call it Asperger's

Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome doesn't matter. But please don't

call it Autism. If it is different enough to warrant it's own name,

then the name should be used.

No? Comments?

And as a clarification, by no means do I feel that AS children

are " better " than autistic children...just different in their

uniqueness.

Deej Tasker

January 17, 2007

Deej,

First, you should have a doctor certify his diagnosis. This would

clear up some of your questions.

Second, the issue of Asperger or Autism. Just so you know, Asperger

is part of the Autism spectrum. It is very much like High-

functioning Autism (HFA) and also similar to PDD-NOS. I am not an

expert, but I have seen schools give various labels for those in the

spectrum.

I love being part of the Autism spectrum for my son. Asperger is so

few if you were to not count us as part of the Autism spectrum. I

have seen numbers that we are 1 in 500. Autism is more like 1 in 200.

My opinion is that you really need to be open about this. I am an

older Asperger father and I attend many Autism events. We are

included in the Autism family.

As you will see as your child grows up, you will be seeking many of

the same benefits for HFA. You will love being in this family.

Asperger families would be swallowed up and have almost no voice if

not for the Autism spectrum. I just watched a Texas Capitol Hearing

for Autism/PDD and Asperger is clearly part of the world we live and

advocate in.

We are fortunate to be in this family. Another thing Deej, you need

to be extremely careful in saying what you are saying. Autism is

such a sensitive matter for all in the spectrum. Some of the best

families I know have classic Autism, and by trying to maintain a

seperation, we hurt our cause and our hope for our loved ones.

I truly respect you and appreciate your feelings. I know, because my

son is Asperger. I know you are trying to seek clarification. Keep

studying, you will find that we, Asperger, is in the Autism

spectrum. Also, it is known as ASD.

Mark

Carrollton, Texas

>

> Please tell me if I am splitting hairs, being overprotective, or in

> denial - I am a newbie with a small attitude problem.

>

> The elementary school insists on saying has autism instead of

> AS. The schol system does not recognize AS, and umbrellas it under

> autism.

>

> The major majority of today's society understands autism as a low-

> functioning, sometimes non-verbal disorder. This does not define my

> son.

>

> I feel that if AS is different enough from autism to be given its

own

> name, then the school should honor my request and not describe

> as autistic.

>

> We don't look at an apple and call it pear. Yes, they are both

> fruit, they both grow on trees, and have seeds and stems. They

even

> have the same growing season. But one is still an apple and the

other

> is still a pear.

>

> Our children have Asperger's. Whether you call it Asperger's

> Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome doesn't matter. But please don't

> call it Autism. If it is different enough to warrant it's own

name,

> then the name should be used.

>

> No? Comments?

>

> And as a clarification, by no means do I feel that AS children

> are " better " than autistic children...just different in their

> uniqueness.

>

> Deej Tasker

>

January 17, 2007

Now where I live it's the oppisite, the school reconizes autisim but

NOT AS. My adopted daughter has AS, RAD, FAS, and dysgraphia, and the

public school gives her NO help at all. I have to pay for outside

theorapy. Schools are werid.

January 17, 2007

I am new at this as well, you said that AS and Autism spectrum, their

are so many differences. How so?

I thought that AS was just a very high functioning Autistic child but

I believe I am wrong.

Dawn

>

> You are so right. It has been so difficult to me (I still struggle)

to

> understand how AS syndrome could be classified within the Autism

spectrum. there are

> so many differences. This was a reason why my child went through

such a

> difficult time during elementary public school, nowhere to be

placed. ( She is

> doing very well in private school, no special services, small

classes and high

> learning standards) She is 15 and a typical AS, she'll always be,

and this makes

> me live on allert all the time, but it makes me admire her talents

and

> geniality. She'll be a HS Senior next year and I wonder what will

be next for her. I

> pray to God for all our children.

> Ana

>

January 17, 2007

KathyJo, I'm surprised the school isn't helping in some manner. Is

she doing well grade-wise or something? My son has dysgraphia and

needed accommodations for it. Now - the school didn't give him OT for

it but I could have pushed them on it and got it, I bet. We got OT

privately.

single mom, 3 sons

, almost 18, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers

>

> Now where I live it's the oppisite, the school reconizes autisim but

> NOT AS. My adopted daughter has AS, RAD, FAS, and dysgraphia, and

the

> public school gives her NO help at all. I have to pay for outside

> theorapy. Schools are werid.

>

January 17, 2007

She is doing very well in the Non-written work. She writes at a 1st

grade level, the teacher has agreed to Drs recomondation and lets

Gabby type more and write less. However this is NOT an official school

act, just the teachers. The meeting I had with the school for Special

Ed they said she was NOT qualified for any services. She has C

average in most everything exept math which she is failing horrably.

She can add 2 digits, same with subtract as long as theres no

borrowing, she cannot do multiplication or division. She's in 4th grade.

> >

> > Now where I live it's the oppisite, the school reconizes autisim but

> > NOT AS. My adopted daughter has AS, RAD, FAS, and dysgraphia, and

> the

> > public school gives her NO help at all. I have to pay for outside

> > theorapy. Schools are werid.

> >

>

January 17, 2007

This is one of the reasons I took my son out of school and homeschool him. They

have classes for low functioning children but had nothing for a child with AS.

There is a big difference in what my son needs and what they were willing to

provide! I feel your pain because I have been there.

---------------------------------

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in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

January 18, 2007

Yes but AS is Autism too. So it's not really apples and pears it's all pears.

Just different types of pears. AS is seen as being higher functioning than

classic Autism and eductaion departments tend to take a blanket view that kids

with AS do not need additional funding or help. So your school is actualy doing

you a favour by suggesting that you use the term Autism instead of AS. I know

for a fact that here is Australia if you put AS down on your application for

funding dorm it is turned down

Beck

( ) AS versus Autism

Please tell me if I am splitting hairs, being overprotective, or in

denial - I am a newbie with a small attitude problem.

The elementary school insists on saying has autism instead of

AS. The school system does not recognize AS, and umbrellas it under

autism.

The major majority of today's society understands autism as a low-

functioning, sometimes non-verbal disorder. This does not define my

son.

I feel that if AS is different enough from autism to be given its own

name, then the school should honor my request and not describe

as autistic.

We don't look at an apple and call it pear. Yes, they are both

fruit, they both grow on trees, and have seeds and stems. They even

have the same growing season. But one is still an apple and the other

is still a pear.

Our children have Asperger's. Whether you call it Asperger's

Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome doesn't matter. But please don't

call it Autism. If it is different enough to warrant it's own name,

then the name should be used.

No? Comments?

And as a clarification, by no means do I feel that AS children

are " better " than autistic children...just different in their

uniqueness.

Deej Tasker

January 18, 2007

I also had a real problem with calling my son autistic and not AS we got the

same story in elementary school when he was diagnosed. But I put training on

Asperger Syndrome for all his teachers into his IEP that way they were aware

he is not non verbal and very smart and able to do the work but had social

issues. I feel fortunate that he was put under the autism umbrella as he got a

lot of services he would not have gotten had we put OHI. Forget about the

labile just focus on what are his needs and put specific training in his IEP so

that they are aware of your sons specific issues and believe me if your son

is like mine once they meet him they realize that he is not your lower

functioning kid with autism. I also had him meet his teachers prior to school

opening that was in his IEP, now he does not need any of that in High School

but

for middle school especially the first year that was a big help.

January 18, 2007

If AS is simply the uppermost extreme of the Autism Related Disorders or a

separate entity is a long debate. That's why they are all now classified as PDD

(Pervasive Developmental Disorders). The fundamental difference between AS and

the classical autism is language development, which is better preserved in

children with AS. But that makes a huge difference in coping mechanisms and

social interactions. So it could be to a certain degree considered a separate

diagnostic.

Nevertheless, children with AS and with classical autism seem to have very

similar changes in their brain functioning. In addition, although children with

AS often have a pattern of AS in their families, some studies of family

histories of children with autism and AS suggest that autism could also be more

frequent in families with history of AS. Those are the basis for thinking that

AS may well be just an expression of High Functioning Autism or that the two

diagnosis are at least closely related.

But the jury is still out and we need to push for more research to clarify the

genetics and the brain functioning of children with AS. The problem derived from

the classification of children with AS or autism will definitely be solved once

we know the exact relationship or boundaries between the two.

In my family's case, for example, I can see a clear pattern of AS dating back to

two grandparent on my side and at least one on my wife's, with several people in

all known generations clearly having AS. Although none in my family has had

the classical autism, there have been several levels of severity... One of my

brothers was a genius, highly functional but at the end the world was just too

unfair and too hostile for him. My oldest brother was far less functional, but

had perfectly normal language development. My dad is an uneducated, but bright

guy, with a clear AS, and he pretty made it through thanks to my mom's help and

dedication. I get from my own family history the idea that AS runs in my

family... but I don't see cases of severe autism.

The way I have solved my own dilemma is by not caring about how you call my

son's disorder as long as he gets the help that he needs. I've found that not

many people know about AS, but when I mention it as High Functioning Autism

(HFA), they immediately understand that this is a child that has some autistic

characteristics and that his development may well seem normal... so is just a

matter of being aware that although most of the time he seems and acts as any

other children, in some occasions he needs special attention.

So, to me, call it AS or HFA, all it matters is that my son gets the care he

needs. The rest, I think - and I know that many disagree - is a very interesting

scientific debate that only scientific research will eventually clarify. I'll

wait until that day, and meanwhile, I push my friends and political reps for

more support for research in PDD.

---------------------------------

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January 18, 2007

My school system has a special class specifically for AS kids in each grade

level. It's taught by a special ed teacher and has a permanent assistant in the

room. We must be really lucky to have this! However, at this time we are not

using this class for our son. But it's nice to know it's there for him if he

ever needs it! I wish all AS kids in the US had this as an option.

brandy felty <nicksmom25@...> wrote: This is one of the reasons

I took my son out of school and homeschool him. They have classes for low

functioning children but had nothing for a child with AS. There is a big

difference in what my son needs and what they were willing to provide! I feel

your pain because I have been there.

---------------------------------

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

January 18, 2007

Liz,

Is your son public or private?

Can you tell me the name of your school and what ISD you are in if it

is public? I am fascinated to hear how your family is being

supported. What grade is he in too?

Mark

This is one of the

reasons I took my son out of school and homeschool him. They have

classes for low functioning children but had nothing for a child with

AS. There is a big difference in what my son needs and what they were

willing to provide! I feel your pain because I have been there.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

> in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

>

January 18, 2007

What state do you live in? We have been thinking about moving to get him better

help.

---------------------------------

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January 18, 2007

Hi Kathy,

Have you considered getting an Independent Educational Evaluation?

When the school evaluated at age 11, they found him " just

fine. " We knew he wasn't, and got an IEE. Our speech therapist found

problems, as did our OT. During the due process hearing, the school

okayed therapy in both areas, as well as counseling, and came up with

an acceptable therapeutic program for him.

Liz

On Jan 17, 2007, at 7:55 PM, kathyjo wrote:

> Now where I live it's the oppisite, the school reconizes autisim but

> NOT AS. My adopted daughter has AS, RAD, FAS, and dysgraphia, and the

> public school gives her NO help at all. I have to pay for outside

> theorapy. Schools are werid.

>

January 18, 2007

I have read some but not all of the posts on this topic. I am frustrated myself

not only by

the public school's system for classification but also by the widespread

confusion in our

own community. The thing is you can get a different answer it all depends on who

you ask.

Like may other areas of medicine / psychiatry no everyone agrees, not even the

so called

experts. What is one to do?

I hope we can all agree that no one here is " absolutely right " when they answer

this

question. After all if the experts can't all agree than maybe we can agree to

disagree. I

would like to share my insight but please understand that this is my opinion and

it might

not be 100% correct. I state this now because I obviously believe what I think

to be correct

in my eyes and do not want anyone to feel they have to believe it or accept it

as fact.

If HFA and AS were in fact the same thing then why do they have a different set

of

criteria?? Maybe the problem here is that the medical community has misdiagnosed

people

into one when the truly belonged in the other.

I am an autodidact by nature so when my son was diagnosed with AS I set out to

learn all

that I could. I have read well over 30 medical/psychological journals; somewhere

between

50 and 75 books as well as searched endlessly on the web. I have taken notes and

compiled thoughts until they meshed. I have outlined where in this mess of

information

my son truly fit (no one fits perfectly but as closely as possible). Everything

I have read

about HFA and AS makes it very clear to me that they are in fact two different

diagnosis.

They are both considered part of the spectrum (the spectrum is just a grouping

of like

diagnosis including AS, HFA, PPD-NOS), they both have similar overlapping areas

and they

can present in a similar way. BUT there is a good reason that some developmental

experts

believe that AS has more in common with NLD (Nonverbal Learning Disorder) than

it does

with HFA.

Some people believe that a true AS person is not autistic at all. That it is

their sensory

processing problems, which they both share, which is the major reason they are

grouped

together. And there are those who think that the spectrum should be widened to

include

AS and NLD. But widening the spectrum is in fact changing it and will cause a

lot more

problems than it will solve. That is why we are where we are.

There are also people who through treatments such as dietary and detoxifying

have

completely or almost completely " recovered " from their autistic symptoms.

Although this

did not seem to help my son where do those whom it did work fit? If they no

longer have

the symptoms and issues shared by ASD people are they even in the spectrum

anymore?

I don't want to post too much longer right here but I would love to take the

time to outline

both HFA and AS later to show why I believe what I believe.

But I would like to point out that My son who has AS does not fit into the HFA

category. He

does however fit into the AS ... or should I say AG (Asperger's gifted)

category. The school

having labeled him Autistic tried to use there traditional approach with a

spectrum child.

Boy was that the wrong approach! After my son suffering at his school for 8

months we

pulled him out to Homeschool. Best choice I ever made! He will never go back to

our local

public schools again. We might do a private school when he is older if he wants

to.

Regardless of his label he needs real life experiences to grow and learn from.

not the

institutionalized " pear groups " that everyone keeps telling me he needs at

school. Only in

school will you be surrounded by people your exact age and be doing the exact

same

thing. In real life our kids need to learn how to function among multi-age and

multi-able

people. But I digress...

We all have to do what we can and what we think is best for our children. Isn't

it great that

we can agree and disagree with each other and still learn. I love reading posts

from people

who themselves have been through the issues facing my son.

>

> I am new at this as well, you said that AS and Autism spectrum, their

> are so many differences. How so?

> I thought that AS was just a very high functioning Autistic child but

> I believe I am wrong.

> Dawn

>

January 18, 2007

In a message dated 1/18/2007 1:55:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,

tkschlueter@... writes:

And all the parents there are so accepting and you

don't have to worry about dirty looks or reactions to your child

expounding (at length) about their latest obsession. Everyone w/kids on

the spectrum has challenges and you may be surprised what you find

I'd be lost with out my local autism supports

we've met th nicest people,

its a safe happy place

Joanne

January 18, 2007

,

This was very good reading. You have a great way of explaing AS & it's

connection to Autism.

Much apprecxiated.

Liz

" F. Velez " <luivelez@...> wrote:

If AS is simply the uppermost extreme of the Autism Related Disorders

or a separate entity is a long debate. That's why they are all now classified as

PDD (Pervasive Developmental Disorders). The fundamental difference between AS

and the classical autism is language development, which is better preserved in

children with AS. But that makes a huge difference in coping mechanisms and

social interactions. So it could be to a certain degree considered a separate

diagnostic.

Nevertheless, children with AS and with classical autism seem to have very

similar changes in their brain functioning. In addition, although children with

AS often have a pattern of AS in their families, some studies of family

histories of children with autism and AS suggest that autism could also be more

frequent in families with history of AS. Those are the basis for thinking that

AS may well be just an expression of High Functioning Autism or that the two

diagnosis are at least closely related.

But the jury is still out and we need to push for more research to clarify the

genetics and the brain functioning of children with AS. The problem derived from

the classification of children with AS or autism will definitely be solved once

we know the exact relationship or boundaries between the two.

In my family's case, for example, I can see a clear pattern of AS dating back to

two grandparent on my side and at least one on my wife's, with several people in

all known generations clearly having AS. Although none in my family has had the

classical autism, there have been several levels of severity... One of my