RE: Eating in the Cafeteria

[Guest guest]

We put cotton balls in our son's lunch box when he was in kindergarten

and had trouble coping with the noise level in the cafeteria.

Tonya

( ) Eating in the Cafeteria

I have a 6 year old with AS who usually eats like a champ, he is 4'3 "

and 62lbs. At lunch however, he takes tiny bites and barely eats any

of his lunch. He tells me he didn't have enough time when he gets 30

min. I think he is having a hard time focusing on eating because of

the noise and activity around him. At home I only see the tiny bites

with yogurt so it is a sensory texture thing. I wonder if the sensory

texure thing gets worse at school because of the other sensory

irritation (noise, etc) Would it be reasonable to ask that he eat in

a quiet place or should I be content with him having more time to eat/

Thanks,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Well, having him eat in a quieter place would only solve the eating part. His

teachers would also have to give up their planning and lunch time in order to be

with your son because they can't leave him in a room by himself. If he's not

suffering from hunger when he comes home, I wouldn't worry too much, because not

only do kids eat in the cafeteria, they also socialize, which is also what your

son needs. Just make sure that you pack his lunch with things you know he will

eat without any problem (usually). He may eventually come around and start

eating a little more. You don't want to isolate him from his classmates.

--

Peace and Love and Hopefully a Nap, Felicia

---- debramelamed <melamedj@...> wrote:

> I have a 6 year old with AS who usually eats like a champ, he is 4'3 "

> and 62lbs. At lunch however, he takes tiny bites and barely eats any

> of his lunch. He tells me he didn't have enough time when he gets 30

> min. I think he is having a hard time focusing on eating because of

> the noise and activity around him. At home I only see the tiny bites

> with yogurt so it is a sensory texture thing. I wonder if the sensory

> texure thing gets worse at school because of the other sensory

> irritation (noise, etc) Would it be reasonable to ask that he eat in

> a quiet place or should I be content with him having more time to eat/

>

> Thanks,

>

> Debbie

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Felicia,

Wouldn't it be a better choice to help your child desensitize to the things in

his environment that are difficult for him instead of sheltering him from them.

The more we tend to accomodate for sensory issues the more we rob the child of

the motivation and reinforcement needed to overcome these issues. For many

reasons, eating in the cafeteria with the other children would be preferred. If

not only for the fact that your child will not begin to think that any complaint

he makes strongly enough will afford him an escape route from life's

difficulties.

I know many children with AS who given the opportunity will spend the entire day

on the computer. This will allow the child the opportunity to stay in a comfort

zone that he may prefer and keep him from having to deal with the difficulties

of other parts of life but how does this allow the child to be a happier more

socially successful adult?

Instead of trying to manipulate everyone around the child to allow him an easier

path through life, you could (as has been suggested) offer him sound reduction

headphones or cotton balls as a reinforcer for eating a small amount in the

cafeteria before putting the headphones on. Over time as your child begins to

get used to eating the small amount before putting his headphones on, that

amount can be proressively increased. The goal of this program would be to give

your child the motivation and reinforcement available to live life in more

typical ways that will benefit his future happiness.

Re: ( ) Eating in the Cafeteria

Well, having him eat in a quieter place would only solve the eating

part. His teachers would also have to give up their planning and lunch time in

order to be with your son because they can't leave him in a room by himself. If

he's not suffering from hunger when he comes home, I wouldn't worry too much,

because not only do kids eat in the cafeteria, they also socialize, which is

also what your son needs. Just make sure that you pack his lunch with things

you know he will eat without any problem (usually). He may eventually come

around and start eating a little more. You don't want to isolate him from his

classmates.

--

Peace and Love and Hopefully a Nap, Felicia

---- debramelamed <melamedjcomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

> I have a 6 year old with AS who usually eats like a champ, he is 4'3 "

> and 62lbs. At lunch however, he takes tiny bites and barely eats any

> of his lunch. He tells me he didn't have enough time when he gets 30

> min. I think he is having a hard time focusing on eating because of

> the noise and activity around him. At home I only see the tiny bites

> with yogurt so it is a sensory texture thing. I wonder if the sensory

> texure thing gets worse at school because of the other sensory

> irritation (noise, etc) Would it be reasonable to ask that he eat in

> a quiet place or should I be content with him having more time to eat/

>

> Thanks,

>

> Debbie

>

>

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[Guest guest]

My daughter also does not eat a lot at school, but is much better able

to handle the noice level. The first day of school was a sensory

attack for her. I did not think it would work but she became

desensitized to it pretty quickly. She gets distracted by everything

but is participating in a regular school activity. She eats enough by

the end of the week.

>

> > I have a 6 year old with AS who usually eats like a champ, he is 4'3 "

>

> > and 62lbs. At lunch however, he takes tiny bites and barely eats any

>

> > of his lunch. He tells me he didn't have enough time when he gets 30

>

> > min. I think he is having a hard time focusing on eating because of

>

> > the noise and activity around him. At home I only see the tiny bites

>

> > with yogurt so it is a sensory texture thing. I wonder if the

sensory

>

> > texure thing gets worse at school because of the other sensory

>

> > irritation (noise, etc) Would it be reasonable to ask that he eat in

>

> > a quiet place or should I be content with him having more time to eat/

>

> >

>

> > Thanks,

>

> >

>

> > Debbie

>

> >

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

That is one of my biggest problems. The cafeteria and

recess are extremely hard on him. My DS used to sit in

a corner and try to eat with one hand covering his

eat. He would constantly get in trouble at those

times. If he was on line and another student cut the

line my son would get very upset and physically strike

the other child because they cut him in the line and

that is not part of the " rules and regulations " . What

we have decided to do is have Eli get on the line

first and take his lunch into the PRE-K classroom. He

eats in the back of the classroom and when he is done

he becomes a " teacher's assistant " . He helps the

teacher put out the things needed for the younger kids

snacks. He loves it. Eli says that lunchtime is

relaxing for him now and he loves having that

responsibility. I just feel that if there is anything

I can do to reduce his anxiety then I will. His

teacher even told me that he is behaving better in the

afternoon and I am not receiving any lunch letters.

Just my experience though.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

My son had exactly the same problem when he first started kindergarten. It was

absolutely overwhelming for him. He has sound, smell and texture

hypersensitivities. We solved the cafeteria one talking to the teachers and

counselor, and packing lunch from home in labeled bags. The teachers stopped

trying to get him to eat the school lunch, and he could focus on eating his

lunch simply following the labels.

I'm totally for doing as much accommodations as possible. The lives of children

with autism and ours as parents are hard enough. It is very easy to say: " they

just want to get it their way, they are just manipulating you " . And perhaps some

parents are wonderful perfect educators capable of controlling every aspect of

their children's behavior. But my bet is that most of us are not. Most of us

work very hard, get annoyed at work, have the permanent concern of 'how is my

child doing', and many of us eventually get tired at the end of the day.

What my wife and I do is we just pick our fights with our son... as few as

possible. And we try hard to find healthy alternatives for all those situations

that affect our son, because we recognize that he has real sensory problems,

real emotional problems, real cognitive problems. We could choose to let him

suffer enough until he gets desensitized and we don't have to worry more about

all those things, assuming that real life is tough and he needs to get tough.

That was what my parents, out of the ignorance about AU in their time, did with

3 of my siblings who were clearly AS. And I can tell you that the outcome was

not good at all.

The hardest thing for us as parents of an AS child is to reach a balance... what

do we force upon him, what do we accommodate, and what do we just let it pass.

And all these in light of our profound love and commitment for our son's

happiness, but also our own sanity. What we have found is that there is not a

formula. It's a work in progress. Each day brings new challenges.

I must confess that I found somewhat insensitive towards the realities of AS

individuals the insistence in recommended the traditional behavioristic approach

with our children. Most of the well balanced interventions with AS children

include several approaches, including some behavioristic aspects, but also a lot

of accommodations, and a lot of simply re-orienting the child's difficulties

towards more productive applications of their challenges. They are not Pavlov's

dogs, and nothing was known about Asperger's Syndrome at the time of BF Skinner.

Heavy behavioristic techniques may be good for autistic children with severe

behavioral

problems or with added issues such as mental retardation or other problems. For

the bright people that many of our AS children are, stimulus-response

interventions have some good but limited use.

Thanks and have a great day. F

---------------------------------

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you so much for your heart felt reply. I am for accommodating

also. I wish my son could tell me whether or not he would prefer to

eat in a quiet place rather than the careteria, but he cannot. He

says he doesn't know. He is 0nly 6 and quite passive by nature. My

behavior specialist through wraparound observed my son at lunch and

said he seems happy, he is smiling and interacting with other

children. She said he does seem caught up in all the stimulus which

is keeping him from focusing on eating. Being an OT myself, I found

it interesting that he has been taking tiny bites. I wonder if a

little anxiety is causing an oral sensory reaction. My son had some

sensory food texture swallowing issues in the past. I have to

decide if separating him is the best idea or not. The school has

agreed to give my son Jake 10 extra min of lunch. I may ask for a

quiet lunch once a week and then I will give him the choice.

I get annoyed also when people think my son could be manipulating to

get his way. I think that is ridiculous. My son cant manipulate

because he doesn't know how! He can't lie at all. He is so

transparent. When he takes a stance that he really doesn't want to

do something I listen to him. He definitely has some inertia and

needs to be coaxed to do things but he is a good boy and I respect

his limits. We have a very good trusting relationship. He knows

that I am his special helper and he tries hard to please me. I

decided not to go back to work after I got my Masters in OT which

was a tough decision but I felt that he needed me and I was knee

deep in advocating at the time and with a new baby also. Now I am

still home packing homemade lunches and staying on top of everyone

that has anything to do with my son. When I am content that he is

OK I may go back to work - we will see!

I am sorry about your siblings but it sounds like you are doing a

much better job.

Thanks,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with you. I also think we need to pace ourselves when dealing with kids

who have problems like this. It should not be an " all or nothing. " A lot of

kids with HFA or AS do learn to manage sensory challenges as they grow up and I

think it has a lot to do with just maturity.

For example, my one ds would go crazy whenever we turned the vacuum cleaner on.

I had to have my oldest take him for a walk whenever I wanted to vacuum.

Eventually, I realized this was not going to work forever and I would take him

upstairs while I vacuumed. He still had to hear it and still got upset, but he

was a " safe " distance away. And over time, he got used to things and learned to

tolerate it. The same problem existed with the television. He still runs out

of the room sometimes when something " bothersome " comes on tv but that is the

point - we taught him that strategy of leaving. I have also learned that when

he has to leave, he is usually really stressed out. It's like he can't stand

one more thing or he will explode - it just builds up. I think it's a good idea

to monitor the child's " load " and help them cope along the way so it doesn't

build up and explode.

OTOH, and why I don't fully agree with just leaving a kid to get used to it - my

oldest is 17 now and he gets tutored for his senior year because he can't go

near the school anymore. He never had a lot of help and he was left to learn to

deal with it all these years. This resulted in his just shutting down finally.

So I wish we had provided more supports along the way to help him cope better.

It wasn't that I didn't ask or try, but that the older he got, the less the

personnel knew how to work with someone like him. And yes, once they get in a

" comfort zone " , it is really counter productive to learning the skills necessary

for independent living - as I know first hand.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) Eating in the Cafeteria

Well, having him eat in a quieter place would only solve the eating part. His

teachers would also have to give up their planning and lunch time in order to be

with your son because they can't leave him in a room by himself. If he's not

suffering from hunger when he comes home, I wouldn't worry too much, because not

only do kids eat in the cafeteria, they also socialize, which is also what your

son needs. Just make sure that you pack his lunch with things you know he will

eat without any problem (usually). He may eventually come around and start

eating a little more. You don't want to isolate him from his classmates.

--

Peace and Love and Hopefully a Nap, Felicia

---- debramelamed <melamedjcomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

> I have a 6 year old with AS who usually eats like a champ, he is 4'3 "

> and 62lbs. At lunch however, he takes tiny bites and barely eats any

> of his lunch. He tells me he didn't have enough time when he gets 30

> min. I think he is having a hard time focusing on eating because of

> the noise and activity around him. At home I only see the tiny bites

> with yogurt so it is a sensory texture thing. I wonder if the sensory

> texure thing gets worse at school because of the other sensory

> irritation (noise, etc) Would it be reasonable to ask that he eat in

> a quiet place or should I be content with him having more time to eat/

>

> Thanks,

>

> Debbie

>

>

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[Guest guest]

,

ITA with you that as parents, we strike a balance all the time. I suppose when

we answer emails like this, we give the " ideal " situation or give solutions that

have worked for us personally. It never means a parent always " has " to do a

certain thing a certain way or they have failed or that what worked for me may

never work for you. And I often admit when I didn't do it the " right " way and

how it messed things up. lol.

I was actually right with you until you got to the " Pavlov Dog " comment. I got

a lot of that kind of attitude when I first started looking into ABA for my now

10 yo son. Half the time I spent defending his need for ABA just because people

have preconcieved ideas about it. I think the study of behavior is very

important and frankly, it works even on NT people/kids as well. For instance,

if we know something works better this way because we have studied this in human

behavior, then why not take advantage of what we know and not have to reinvent

the wheel each time? I personally would like someone with education in behavior

to work on my kids behavior plan instead of someone without this education who

is just thinking up strategies until one sticks. (And believe me, BTDT!)

Another aspect to consider is that while kids with AS are different in their

development, and are usually on time with most milestones - kids with HFA are

definitely not! There were a number of years with both my two boys (HFA both)

where I did not know if they would be high functioning or not. I didn't know if

they would talk or not. For whatever reason you want to credit, wires were

re-routed and both my boys went on to be high functioning. But they still both

struggle with the effects of having autism and not AS. So it is not just the

lower functioning kids who need behavioral intervention. There is a really

interesting study on Tony Attwood's website that discussed how some kids with

autism managed to make the right connections and when they did, they turned onto

the same path/track as the kids with AS. That is how I have felt about the

developmental path both my boys are on.

Anyway, I'm getting long winded but I wanted to say that we did use ABA with my

now 10 year old and I feel strongly that it made a world of difference in his

becomming high functioning - and have the data to prove it. <G> He was so lost

and out of touch at the time and he soaked it up - he loved " going to work " and

we made games and all sorts of fun activities to teach the things that he didn't

notice on his own. It helped teach him to wear his clothes! And keep his shoes

on in stores and all sorts of behavior problems that were causing huge problems

(ever see a naked 4 yo out in the snow? My neighbors have...) Everywhere we

went was a learning experience - still is. But this is exactly how he learns

best. The school at the time was doing a modified " teacch " program and he went

all year learning nothing at all and wandered around the room aimlessly reaching

no goals on his IEP at all.

So I would not count out a good ABA program. I work with a 4 yo with more

severe autism now and he was in the same " teacch " program at school and went

nowhere. In three months after starting ABA, he mastered the goals he spent a

year never getting. For people who have kids who are so far behind in so many

areas, this kind of teaching is exactly what they need. If it works on dogs

too, I don't care. If it works on dolphins, I don't care. If my kid learned to

talk and is now able to attend class at school without an aide, that I do care

about! And now they are high functioning and more like kids with AS than not.

As for AS kids, I don't think you should count it out. I do feel we need to do

what works with that particular child as well. And I agree with you, that we do

provide accommodations when necessary - definitely! I don't think it should be

an " all or nothing " proposition. We should accommodate and also teach coping

skills at the same time. And finally, absolutely - we parents have to balance

everything and sometimes we just do what we can to get through the day. And

that's ok too!

Roxanna

( ) Re: Eating in the Cafeteria

My son had exactly the same problem when he first started kindergarten. It was

absolutely overwhelming for him. He has sound, smell and texture

hypersensitivities. We solved the cafeteria one talking to the teachers and

counselor, and packing lunch from home in labeled bags. The teachers stopped

trying to get him to eat the school lunch, and he could focus on eating his

lunch simply following the labels.

I'm totally for doing as much accommodations as possible. The lives of

children with autism and ours as parents are hard enough. It is very easy to

say: " they just want to get it their way, they are just manipulating you " . And

perhaps some parents are wonderful perfect educators capable of controlling

every aspect of their children's behavior. But my bet is that most of us are

not. Most of us work very hard, get annoyed at work, have the permanent concern

of 'how is my child doing', and many of us eventually get tired at the end of

the day.

What my wife and I do is we just pick our fights with our son... as few as

possible. And we try hard to find healthy alternatives for all those situations

that affect our son, because we recognize that he has real sensory problems,

real emotional problems, real cognitive problems. We could choose to let him

suffer enough until he gets desensitized and we don't have to worry more about

all those things, assuming that real life is tough and he needs to get tough.

That was what my parents, out of the ignorance about AU in their time, did with

3 of my siblings who were clearly AS. And I can tell you that the outcome was

not good at all.

The hardest thing for us as parents of an AS child is to reach a balance...

what do we force upon him, what do we accommodate, and what do we just let it

pass. And all these in light of our profound love and commitment for our son's

happiness, but also our own sanity. What we have found is that there is not a

formula. It's a work in progress. Each day brings new challenges.

I must confess that I found somewhat insensitive towards the realities of AS

individuals the insistence in recommended the traditional behavioristic approach

with our children. Most of the well balanced interventions with AS children

include several approaches, including some behavioristic aspects, but also a lot

of accommodations, and a lot of simply re-orienting the child's difficulties

towards more productive applications of their challenges. They are not Pavlov's

dogs, and nothing was known about Asperger's Syndrome at the time of BF Skinner.

Heavy behavioristic techniques may be good for autistic children with severe

behavioral

problems or with added issues such as mental retardation or other problems.

For the bright people that many of our AS children are, stimulus-response

interventions have some good but limited use.

Thanks and have a great day. F

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[Guest guest]

> Luiz,

.....

> Other than that, I am on board with your approach. I have no

>problem accommodating when it is necessary or more useful in the

>situation. However, I would not as you indicated earlier accomodate

>first and teach second for fear of destroying a child's specialness.

******

No, no, I never suggested accommodate first, teach next. The confusion

may be in what we define as " teach " . If I understand it right, you

define define " teach " as the process of setting a learning goal and

applying positive and negative incentives to the child's reaction. I

believe that positive and negative reinforcement work well in

education if balanced. If I understood it right, my main difference

with your point of view may be that I think there maybe other ways to

teach, in addition to providing positive and negative reinforcement.

Modeling, for example, is another way of doing it, and although using

role models involve some vicariuos (experienced by others)

re-inforcement per se, the central process is fundamentally cognitive,

when the child learns what the behavior is about and gains confidence

in her capacity to do it by seeing individuals similar to her doing it.

I also think that redirectioning and accommodating are teaching

alternatives. It all depends on what you set as the goal. If the goal

is for the child to learn what we as parents decide is better for them

- because that is the best in a given situation, positive or negative

reinforcement is probably a great alternative. If the goal is for the

child to find his own way of doing something - which some other times

may be the learning goal, re-directioning or accommodating are also

good alternatives.

I insist, there are different solutions to different problems in each

different situation. Not even the best ones can be applied in every case.

Thanks, and have a great day. F

[Guest guest]

My son is 7 and in 2nd grade. He has been wearing ear plugs in the cafeteria

for two years now and he is finally able to function and now actually enjoys

lunch. Hope this helps.

P.S. He also wears them during assemblies and fire drills. The teacher's aide

keeps the box of them on her desk.

debramelamed <melamedj@...> wrote:

,

Thank you so much for your heart felt reply. I am for accommodating

also. I wish my son could tell me whether or not he would prefer to

eat in a quiet place rather than the careteria, but he cannot. He

says he doesn't know. He is 0nly 6 and quite passive by nature. My

behavior specialist through wraparound observed my son at lunch and

said he seems happy, he is smiling and interacting with other

children. She said he does seem caught up in all the stimulus which

is keeping him from focusing on eating. Being an OT myself, I found

it interesting that he has been taking tiny bites. I wonder if a

little anxiety is causing an oral sensory reaction. My son had some

sensory food texture swallowing issues in the past. I have to

decide if separating him is the best idea or not. The school has

agreed to give my son Jake 10 extra min of lunch. I may ask for a

quiet lunch once a week and then I will give him the choice.

I get annoyed also when people think my son could be manipulating to

get his way. I think that is ridiculous. My son cant manipulate

because he doesn't know how! He can't lie at all. He is so

transparent. When he takes a stance that he really doesn't want to

do something I listen to him. He definitely has some inertia and

needs to be coaxed to do things but he is a good boy and I respect

his limits. We have a very good trusting relationship. He knows

that I am his special helper and he tries hard to please me. I

decided not to go back to work after I got my Masters in OT which

was a tough decision but I felt that he needed me and I was knee

deep in advocating at the time and with a new baby also. Now I am

still home packing homemade lunches and staying on top of everyone

that has anything to do with my son. When I am content that he is

OK I may go back to work - we will see!

I am sorry about your siblings but it sounds like you are doing a

much better job.

Thanks,

Debbie

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