Re: punching his own head

October 30, 2006

I have a question. My son (9) punches his head when he's done something wrong.

If he gets in trouble for doing something wrong he'll start hitting his head, or

if he spills milk or does something on accident and thinks he may get in trouble

he punches his head. He says he's punishing himself. I don't know if I should

just ignore the behavior or not because it seems like if I don't say something

he'll think that he's supposed to punish himself that way. I try to tell him

that he doesn't need to do that but he says he must punish himself. Even if I

tell him he's not in trouble, like for spilling milk. Any suggestions?

Schramm <knospeaba_robert@...> wrote: Hi ,

I truly think that you need to study more about what ABA is and how it works.

The desciption you paint below seems to me to demonstrate a complete

misunderstanding. ABA is not a therapy for children with autism. It is an

understanding of why people act and behave the way that they do. Then it is the

application of that understanding to help people in meaningful ways. ABA has

nothing to do with autism, Asperger's or disorders in general. ABA is useful for

helping all people with all kinds of problems. ABA is nothing more than a

scientifically validated method of teaching. It is so widely used for ASD

because it is so successful in areas that other types of interventions have

failed.

I would never say that a child is trying to manipulate us. I would say however,

that children and all people in general tend to repeat behaviors that are

successful in gaining their desired result. For instance, there are roads in

your town that you might be more likely to speed on when you are late for work.

This is because something about those roads have either through experience

demonstrated to be safe or share aspects of road other roads that you have

successfully sped on in the past. As you become a more experienced driver, you

are better able to discern what roads are safe to speed on and what roads are

dangerous to speed on. Drivers who don't speed at all likely learn through

experience that there are certain roads that are not safe because of speeders

but that is a different story for a different day. The bottom line is that we

learn from our experience to repeat things that have been successful and avoid

things that have not.

If a child wants mom to come and play and mom is on the phone the child might

try waiting patiently for a few seconds. However, if waiting doesn't seem to be

getting the desired result, then the child might get frustrated and make noise.

If the noise is unsuccessful the child might get angry and begin to cry. If mom

gets off the phone and gives the child more attention consistently only after he

starts crying, the child will be more likely to cry quicker and longer the next

time mom is on the phone and he wants her attention. Anything that occurs after

a behavior and increases the likelyhood of that behavior is a reinforcer for

that behavior. So in this example, hanging up the phone and giving attention to

the child is reinforcing (making more likely) the behavior choice of crying.

What the child is being taught is that when you are not getting the attention

you seek the appropriate response is to begin to cry. Yes, the child is crying

because he is sad, but crying and

being sad

when someone is on the phone becomes a more valuable response when it is

successfully acheiving a certain goal. To not acknowledge this is naive and

detrimental to the child's future.

Now, if after a tough day at work, mom decides, " no, he can cry all day, but I

am talking to my mother, " the child might start to cry and expect his

reinforcement. When that reinforcement doesn't come the parent is using a

principle called extinction. Staying on the phone is refusing to reinforce a

previously reinforced behavior is extinction. Behaviorists and anyone working

with a behaviorist would no that all behaviors put on extinction will eventually

decrease but only after an extinction burst occurs. The extinction burst is a

period of time that the behavior intensifies before reducing. In our example the

child might cry for a while and when that doesn't work the child might yell,

throw himself to the ground, or hit himself in the head, etc.

Knowing about the extinction burst and planning for it will allow the parent to

be sure to not get off the phone after these more severe behavior choices. If

she does, she knows that she will begin to reinforce the behavior of yelling,

throwing oneself down or hitting oneself in the head. Again, any behavior that

is reinforced is more likely to reoccur. If mom, continues to refuse to get off

the phone when the child cries but begins getting off when the child yells, that

child will learn that yelling is now the new better behavior to use when you

want mom's attention. This child will no longer cry when mom is on the phone but

instead will go straight to yelling. Other parent's might not respond the

yelling but might get off the phone when the child throws himself to the ground.

This child will be learning that slamming his body against things is the best

way to get others attention. Some kids find that they can usually get what they

want (some form of attention, escape

from demand, or a control position in the interaction) when they hit themselves

on the head.

However, if the mom has been taught about the extinction burst and has prepared

for it by protecting the child and items in the house, the mom can ride out the

extinction burst until the child decides these behaviors are not working. Then

when the child is quiet or finds something else to do, mom can hang up the phone

come running and play with the child reinforcing this more effective and

socially appropriate response. When this is the behavior that is being

reinforced the child will begin to choose it instead of crying, yelling, etc.

This is what teaching is.

This sort of understanding and application is all that ABA is. Now, here is an

example closer to what you are talking about with Asperger's. I had a little boy

3 or 4 years old that we worked with who at the time of our first consultation

had not drinken anything but chocolate milk for a reported two years. He utterly

refused to drink water, or soda, or juice. Nothing but Chocolate Milk. Any

attempt at getting him to drink anything else resulted in an immediate trantrum.

Ranting, raving, " No No, No " , " Who are you to tell me what I can drink " " It

doesn't taste good " " I hate it. " etc The family had decided and were advised

that the boy had some sort of a sensory issue and had given up the fight. They

accomodated for him, allowing him to drink nothing but chocolate milk every day.

At our consult the mom said, I really wish I could get him to drink water

because we have to brush his teeth 5 times a day because of all of the sugar.

After meeting him and assessing his interactions we decided to implement a plan

to motivate him to choose to drink water as well as milk. We started playing

with a great reinforcing toy that we brought with us. When he was really

enjoying it, we said okay all done and put it away. Later, when he asked to play

again we said sure but first we need you to take a sip of this water. We put the

water in front of him and of course he refused, tantrumed, ran out of the room

and threw himself on the floor in the hallway. Instead of going after him and

giving these tantrum behaviors attention (feeding his beleif that they were

affecting us and might be successful), we just put the game on the table, and

continued talking amongst ourselves. After crying a few minutes, stopping and

waiting, looking for us to come, banging his feet on the ground to get us to

attend to him, crying a few more times (half heartedly), he eventually (about 20

minutes later) got up came back to us and

tried talking with mom. Mom chatted with him but as soon as he asked to play

with the toy or any of the other toys we brought the answer was " Sure but first

you have to take a sip of this water. " After a second tantrum (much shorter than

the first) he came back again and again we offered him the water. By the 4th

refusal, he took the glass, put it to his lips and took the tinyest of sips. We

all cheered, swung him in the air, pulled out the toys, played with him and had

a great time. He looked so proud of himself and loved the attention he got. A

little later when he wanted to play with the toy again we said take a sip. This

time, no tantrum just a reflex answer " no " but then quickly took a tiny sip. He

even wimpered a little when he put the glass to his lips. But he took a sip. A

few trials later, he was grabbing the cup and taking sips without even being

asked. Within three days he was drinking full glasses of water out of a glass

and even began drinking at the

water fountain in school.

This was a two year " sensory issue " that was overcome in a three day period by

using the proper mixture of motivation and reinforcement. Now, to answer your

question, are the kids really trying to manipulate us or just trying to get

their way. No, they are, like we are, very good at using the behavior that works

best. The difference is, without analysis, we can only guess what the purpose of

that behavior is. Without knowing the purpose we cannot decide if , when, or how

to effectively reinforce it.

Our institute works with over 160 children worldwide and the above examples are

generally the case. My wife hates speaking in front of an audience, but by

giving her small groups and small amounts of information to share, I helped her

to desensitize herself to this aversion. Although she prefers to keep the giant

presentations to me, she really enjoys speaking in smaller gatherings and she is

more successful in her chosen field because of it. That is ABA.

To answer the other question about a child being too apparent and open to ever

deceive or lie. I agree, I don't think the kids are trying to decieve,

manipulate, or lie at all. I think they are (as we are) continuing to the use

the behaviors that are most successful for them. If we do not know the purpose

of a behavior, we will undoubtedly be unable to influence what becomes

successful or not. Remember the little boy who started drinking water after

three days. two weeks later we got a call from his mom. " Well, he is drinking

water but now he is refusing to drink out of a glass and will only drink out of

water fountains or faucetts. " " What should I do, is it a sensory issue, does he

hate the way glasses feel? " At our next visit we did the same thing again and he

was drinking out of glasses at home in a day. Later we called to see how he was

doing. Mom said great, but now he will drink out of glasses, but only at home.

He refuses to drink anything bought at the store.

The truth is with many (not all kids) sensory issues are sensory preferences

that get reinforced to the point the child feels entitled to them and even

begins to believe he needs them. The more you are willing to placate these

preferences, or use extinction and give in to the extinction burst, the stronger

they become. Often when a child has gotten his environment to begin giving in to

sensory demands, you begin to see the number of sensory demands grow. With some

kids this grows exponentially. We have had kids who started out refusing to

allow their parents put their left shoe on first. When parents forget and try to

begin with the " wrong " shoe, the child tantrums and the parents reinforce this

tantrum by changing to the right shoe. Caring, hard, working but tired parents

or teachers can easily rationalize, " hey this isn't so important, I don't care

what shoe he puts on first. " But as was the case with this boy, suddenly he

began refusing odd amounts of food. Meaning

if you gave him more than one chip you had to give him 2, 4, 6 etc. If you gave

him an odd number he would give one back or refuse to eat them at all. Later, he

began to insist that his parents only drive one way home from school and would

have a melt down whenever they turned off of the expected route. The parents

began to accomodate for this by trying their best to follow his preferred paths

and running errands when he wasn't in the car. Until we came in and helped them

develop a plan that motivated the child to accept flexibility and reinforced him

when he did, these issues showed every sign of continued increase.

So , perhaps you have found that you and your family can accept your child's

sensory preferences and accomodate for them in a way that you feel you are being

kind to your child. I can respect that. However, I feel compelled to share my

belief and experience that it is more kind to give people the opportunity to

overcome their difficulties and live more varied and successful lives. If the

child this thread began about, were to stop eating in the lunchroom because of

the loud noise, what would the parents do next if he began complaining about the

noise in the school gym, should he be allowed to sit out of PE as well? What if

he began reacting adversely to activities in the multi purpose room, should he

miss out on plays and holdiay parties? What if he reacted to the kids clapping

in a movie theatre or in the classroom after a movie. Should the others in the

theater be taught not to clap or should the child only be expected to watch

DVD's alone in his house?

Before beginning my institute, I worked for 4 years as an Inclusion specialist

for a school dist. in California. It was my job to fully include children with

Autism, Asperger's and other labelled disorders in regular classrooms. My

biggest question was always trying to figure out when did we teach the child to

live up to the expectations of the class and when did we accomodate for the

child's difficulties. Every child who was pushed to improve his skills and

abilities to meet the environment did better and had more opportunity to enjoy

positive social experiences than the ones whose parents faught for them to be

accomodated at every turn.

Don't get me wrong. Like you, I agree that it is important to pick your battles.

We do not want or need a bunch of perfect little stepford children running

around. It is not effective or fair to attack every sensory issue at the same

time. However, addressing the biggest most problematic ones first is a

worthwhile endeavor. The alternative is to accomodate first and teach second.

When we do this, what we end up teaching our kids is that the level of skill and

ability they have at this very moment is is appropriate for the rest of their

life. I cannot say that I know a single child that has all the skills and

abilities he will need to be a successful adult.

In my book I say, Just because someone is difficult to teach doesn't mean they

do not have a right to learn or their teachers have a right not to teach them.

By the way, your parents acted without a scientifically validated approach to

helping your siblings but tried to do so anyway. I don't recommend this. But I

also don't recommend letting other peoples failed attempts act as a reason not

to try.

I truly tried to not to get personal with this email and just focus on teaching.

I hope I have succeeded and you read this email in factual manner that it was

intended.

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.de

________________________

( ) Re: Eating in the Cafeteria

My son had exactly the same problem when he first started kindergarten. It was

absolutely overwhelming for him. He has sound, smell and texture

hypersensitivities. We solved the cafeteria one talking to the teachers and

counselor, and packing lunch from home in labeled bags. The teachers stopped

trying to get him to eat the school lunch, and he could focus on eating his

lunch simply following the labels.

I'm totally for doing as much accommodations as possible. The lives of children

with autism and ours as parents are hard enough. It is very easy to say: " they

just want to get it their way, they are just manipulating you " . And perhaps some

parents are wonderful perfect educators capable of controlling every aspect of

their children's behavior. But my bet is that most of us are not. Most of us

work very hard, get annoyed at work, have the permanent concern of 'how is my

child doing', and many of us eventually get tired at the end of the day.

What my wife and I do is we just pick our fights with our son... as few as

possible. And we try hard to find healthy alternatives for all those situations

that affect our son, because we recognize that he has real sensory problems,

real emotional problems, real cognitive problems. We could choose to let him

suffer enough until he gets desensitized and we don't have to worry more about

all those things, assuming that real life is tough and he needs to get tough.

That was what my parents, out of the ignorance about AU in their time, did with

3 of my siblings who were clearly AS. And I can tell you that the outcome was

not good at all.

The hardest thing for us as parents of an AS child is to reach a balance... what

do we force upon him, what do we accommodate, and what do we just let it pass.

And all these in light of our profound love and commitment for our son's

happiness, but also our own sanity. What we have found is that there is not a

formula. It's a work in progress. Each day brings new challenges.

I must confess that I found somewhat insensitive towards the realities of AS

individuals the insistence in recommended the traditional behavioristic approach

with our children. Most of the well balanced interventions with AS children

include several approaches, including some behavioristic aspects, but also a lot

of accommodations, and a lot of simply re-orienting the child's difficulties

towards more productive applications of their challenges. They are not Pavlov's

dogs, and nothing was known about Asperger's Syndrome at the time of BF Skinner.

Heavy behavioristic techniques may be good for autistic children with severe

behavioral

problems or with added issues such as mental retardation or other problems. For

the bright people that many of our AS children are, stimulus-response

interventions have some good but limited use.

Thanks and have a great day. F

------------ --------- --------- ---

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

October 30, 2006

Sorry I don't have any suggestions but my son does the same thing.he will

punch himself when he has done something wrong.I tell him not to do it and

that he doesn't have to do that....

christie

-- Re: ( ) punching his own head

I have a question. My son (9) punches his head when he's done something

wrong. If he gets in trouble for doing something wrong he'll start hitting

his head, or if he spills milk or does something on accident and thinks he

may get in trouble he punches his head. He says he's punishing himself. I

don't know if I should just ignore the behavior or not because it seems like

if I don't say something he'll think that he's supposed to punish himself

that way. I try to tell him that he doesn't need to do that but he says he

must punish himself. Even if I tell him he's not in trouble, like for

spilling milk. Any suggestions?

Schramm <knospeaba_robert@...> wrote: Hi ,

I truly think that you need to study more about what ABA is and how it works

The desciption you paint below seems to me to demonstrate a complete

misunderstanding. ABA is not a therapy for children with autism. It is an

understanding of why people act and behave the way that they do. Then it is

the application of that understanding to help people in meaningful ways. ABA

has nothing to do with autism, Asperger's or disorders in general. ABA is

useful for helping all people with all kinds of problems. ABA is nothing

more than a scientifically validated method of teaching. It is so widely

used for ASD because it is so successful in areas that other types of

interventions have failed.

I would never say that a child is trying to manipulate us. I would say

however, that children and all people in general tend to repeat behaviors

that are successful in gaining their desired result. For instance, there are

roads in your town that you might be more likely to speed on when you are

late for work. This is because something about those roads have either

through experience demonstrated to be safe or share aspects of road other

roads that you have successfully sped on in the past. As you become a more

experienced driver, you are better able to discern what roads are safe to

speed on and what roads are dangerous to speed on. Drivers who don't speed

at all likely learn through experience that there are certain roads that are

not safe because of speeders but that is a different story for a different

day. The bottom line is that we learn from our experience to repeat things

that have been successful and avoid things that have not.

If a child wants mom to come and play and mom is on the phone the child

might try waiting patiently for a few seconds. However, if waiting doesn't

seem to be getting the desired result, then the child might get frustrated

and make noise. If the noise is unsuccessful the child might get angry and

begin to cry. If mom gets off the phone and gives the child more attention

consistently only after he starts crying, the child will be more likely to

cry quicker and longer the next time mom is on the phone and he wants her

attention. Anything that occurs after a behavior and increases the

likelyhood of that behavior is a reinforcer for that behavior. So in this

example, hanging up the phone and giving attention to the child is

reinforcing (making more likely) the behavior choice of crying. What the

child is being taught is that when you are not getting the attention you

seek the appropriate response is to begin to cry. Yes, the child is crying

because he is sad, but crying and

being sad

when someone is on the phone becomes a more valuable response when it is

successfully acheiving a certain goal. To not acknowledge this is naive and

detrimental to the child's future.

Now, if after a tough day at work, mom decides, " no, he can cry all day, but

I am talking to my mother, " the child might start to cry and expect his

reinforcement. When that reinforcement doesn't come the parent is using a

principle called extinction. Staying on the phone is refusing to reinforce a

previously reinforced behavior is extinction. Behaviorists and anyone

working with a behaviorist would no that all behaviors put on extinction

will eventually decrease but only after an extinction burst occurs. The

extinction burst is a period of time that the behavior intensifies before

reducing. In our example the child might cry for a while and when that doesn

t work the child might yell, throw himself to the ground, or hit himself in

the head, etc.

Knowing about the extinction burst and planning for it will allow the parent

to be sure to not get off the phone after these more severe behavior choices

If she does, she knows that she will begin to reinforce the behavior of

yelling, throwing oneself down or hitting oneself in the head. Again, any

behavior that is reinforced is more likely to reoccur. If mom, continues to

refuse to get off the phone when the child cries but begins getting off when

the child yells, that child will learn that yelling is now the new better

behavior to use when you want mom's attention. This child will no longer cry

when mom is on the phone but instead will go straight to yelling. Other

parent's might not respond the yelling but might get off the phone when the

child throws himself to the ground. This child will be learning that

slamming his body against things is the best way to get others attention.

Some kids find that they can usually get what they want (some form of

attention, escape

from demand, or a control position in the interaction) when they hit

themselves on the head.

However, if the mom has been taught about the extinction burst and has

prepared for it by protecting the child and items in the house, the mom can

ride out the extinction burst until the child decides these behaviors are

not working. Then when the child is quiet or finds something else to do, mom

can hang up the phone come running and play with the child reinforcing this

more effective and socially appropriate response. When this is the behavior

that is being reinforced the child will begin to choose it instead of crying

yelling, etc. This is what teaching is.

This sort of understanding and application is all that ABA is. Now, here is

an example closer to what you are talking about with Asperger's. I had a

little boy 3 or 4 years old that we worked with who at the time of our first

consultation had not drinken anything but chocolate milk for a reported two

years. He utterly refused to drink water, or soda, or juice. Nothing but

Chocolate Milk. Any attempt at getting him to drink anything else resulted

in an immediate trantrum. Ranting, raving, " No No, No " , " Who are you to tell

me what I can drink " " It doesn't taste good " " I hate it. " etc The family had

decided and were advised that the boy had some sort of a sensory issue and

had given up the fight. They accomodated for him, allowing him to drink

nothing but chocolate milk every day. At our consult the mom said, I really

wish I could get him to drink water because we have to brush his teeth 5

times a day because of all of the sugar.

After meeting him and assessing his interactions we decided to implement a

plan to motivate him to choose to drink water as well as milk. We started

playing with a great reinforcing toy that we brought with us. When he was

really enjoying it, we said okay all done and put it away. Later, when he

asked to play again we said sure but first we need you to take a sip of this

water. We put the water in front of him and of course he refused, tantrumed,

ran out of the room and threw himself on the floor in the hallway. Instead

of going after him and giving these tantrum behaviors attention (feeding his

beleif that they were affecting us and might be successful), we just put the

game on the table, and continued talking amongst ourselves. After crying a

few minutes, stopping and waiting, looking for us to come, banging his feet

on the ground to get us to attend to him, crying a few more times (half

heartedly), he eventually (about 20 minutes later) got up came back to us

and

tried talking with mom. Mom chatted with him but as soon as he asked to play

with the toy or any of the other toys we brought the answer was " Sure but

first you have to take a sip of this water. " After a second tantrum (much

shorter than the first) he came back again and again we offered him the

water. By the 4th refusal, he took the glass, put it to his lips and took

the tinyest of sips. We all cheered, swung him in the air, pulled out the

toys, played with him and had a great time. He looked so proud of himself

and loved the attention he got. A little later when he wanted to play with

the toy again we said take a sip. This time, no tantrum just a reflex answer

" no " but then quickly took a tiny sip. He even wimpered a little when he put

the glass to his lips. But he took a sip. A few trials later, he was

grabbing the cup and taking sips without even being asked. Within three days

he was drinking full glasses of water out of a glass and even began drinkin!

g at the

water fountain in school.

This was a two year " sensory issue " that was overcome in a three day period

by using the proper mixture of motivation and reinforcement. Now, to answer

your question, are the kids really trying to manipulate us or just trying to

get their way. No, they are, like we are, very good at using the behavior

that works best. The difference is, without analysis, we can only guess what

the purpose of that behavior is. Without knowing the purpose we cannot

decide if , when, or how to effectively reinforce it.

Our institute works with over 160 children worldwide and the above examples

are generally the case. My wife hates speaking in front of an audience, but

by giving her small groups and small amounts of information to share, I

helped her to desensitize herself to this aversion. Although she prefers to

keep the giant presentations to me, she really enjoys speaking in smaller

gatherings and she is more successful in her chosen field because of it.

That is ABA.

To answer the other question about a child being too apparent and open to

ever deceive or lie. I agree, I don't think the kids are trying to decieve,

manipulate, or lie at all. I think they are (as we are) continuing to the

use the behaviors that are most successful for them. If we do not know the

purpose of a behavior, we will undoubtedly be unable to influence what

becomes successful or not. Remember the little boy who started drinking

water after three days. two weeks later we got a call from his mom. " Well,

he is drinking water but now he is refusing to drink out of a glass and will

only drink out of water fountains or faucetts. " " What should I do, is it a

sensory issue, does he hate the way glasses feel? " At our next visit we did

the same thing again and he was drinking out of glasses at home in a day.

Later we called to see how he was doing. Mom said great, but now he will

drink out of glasses, but only at home. He refuses to drink anything bought

a! t the store.

The truth is with many (not all kids) sensory issues are sensory preferences

that get reinforced to the point the child feels entitled to them and even

begins to believe he needs them. The more you are willing to placate these

preferences, or use extinction and give in to the extinction burst, the

stronger they become. Often when a child has gotten his environment to begin

giving in to sensory demands, you begin to see the number of sensory demands

grow. With some kids this grows exponentially. We have had kids who started

out refusing to allow their parents put their left shoe on first. When

parents forget and try to begin with the " wrong " shoe, the child tantrums

and the parents reinforce this tantrum by changing to the right shoe. Caring

hard, working but tired parents or teachers can easily rationalize, " hey

this isn't so important, I don't care what shoe he puts on first. " But as

was the case with this boy, suddenly he began refusing odd amounts of ! food

Meaning

if you gave him more than one chip you had to give him 2, 4, 6 etc. If you

gave him an odd number he would give one back or refuse to eat them at all.

Later, he began to insist that his parents only drive one way home from

school and would have a melt down whenever they turned off of the expected

route. The parents began to accomodate for this by trying their best to

follow his preferred paths and running errands when he wasn't in the car.

Until we came in and helped them develop a plan that motivated the child to

accept flexibility and reinforced him when he did, these issues showed every

sign of continued increase.

So , perhaps you have found that you and your family can accept your

child's sensory preferences and accomodate for them in a way that you feel

you are being kind to your child. I can respect that. However, I feel

compelled to share my belief and experience that it is more kind to give

people the opportunity to overcome their difficulties and live more varied

and successful lives. If the child this thread began about, were to stop

eating in the lunchroom because of the loud noise, what would the parents do

next if he began complaining about the noise in the school gym, should he be

allowed to sit out of PE as well? What if he began reacting adversely to

activities in the multi purpose room, should he miss out on plays and

holdiay parties? What if he reacted to the kids clapping in a movie theatre

or in the classroom after a movie. Should the others in the theater be

taught not to clap or should the child only be expected to watch DVD's alone

in his house?

Before beginning my institute, I worked for 4 years as an Inclusion

specialist for a school dist. in California. It was my job to fully include

children with Autism, Asperger's and other labelled disorders in regular

classrooms. My biggest question was always trying to figure out when did we

teach the child to live up to the expectations of the class and when did we

accomodate for the child's difficulties. Every child who was pushed to

improve his skills and abilities to meet the environment did better and had

more opportunity to enjoy positive social experiences than the ones whose

parents faught for them to be accomodated at every turn.

Don't get me wrong. Like you, I agree that it is important to pick your

battles. We do not want or need a bunch of perfect little stepford children

running around. It is not effective or fair to attack every sensory issue at

the same time. However, addressing the biggest most problematic ones first

is a worthwhile endeavor. The alternative is to accomodate first and teach

second. When we do this, what we end up teaching our kids is that the level

of skill and ability they have at this very moment is is appropriate for the

rest of their life. I cannot say that I know a single child that has all the

skills and abilities he will need to be a successful adult.

In my book I say, Just because someone is difficult to teach doesn't mean

they do not have a right to learn or their teachers have a right not to

teach them. By the way, your parents acted without a scientifically

validated approach to helping your siblings but tried to do so anyway. I don

t recommend this. But I also don't recommend letting other peoples failed

attempts act as a reason not to try.

I truly tried to not to get personal with this email and just focus on

teaching. I hope I have succeeded and you read this email in factual manner

that it was intended.

________________________

Schramm, MA, BCBA

www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

www.knospe-aba.de

________________________

( ) Re: Eating in the Cafeteria

My son had exactly the same problem when he first started kindergarten. It

was absolutely overwhelming for him. He has sound, smell and texture

hypersensitivities. We solved the cafeteria one talking to the teachers and

counselor, and packing lunch from home in labeled bags. The teachers stopped

trying to get him to eat the school lunch, and he could focus on eating his

lunch simply following the labels.

I'm totally for doing as much accommodations as possible. The lives of

children with autism and ours as parents are hard enough. It is very easy to

say: " they just want to get it their way, they are just manipulating you " .

And perhaps some parents are wonderful perfect educators capable of

controlling every aspect of their children's behavior. But my bet is that

most of us are not. Most of us work very hard, get annoyed at work, have the

permanent concern of 'how is my child doing', and many of us eventually get

tired at the end of the day.

What my wife and I do is we just pick our fights with our son... as few as

possible. And we try hard to find healthy alternatives for all those

situations that affect our son, because we recognize that he has real

sensory problems, real emotional problems, real cognitive problems. We could

choose to let him suffer enough until he gets desensitized and we don't have

to worry more about all those things, assuming that real life is tough and

he needs to get tough. That was what my parents, out of the ignorance about

AU in their time, did with 3 of my siblings who were clearly AS. And I can

tell you that the outcome was not good at all.

The hardest thing for us as parents of an AS child is to reach a balance...

what do we force upon him, what do we accommodate, and what do we just let

it pass. And all these in light of our profound love and commitment for our

son's happiness, but also our own sanity. What we have found is that there

is not a formula. It's a work in progress. Each day brings new challenges.

I must confess that I found somewhat insensitive towards the realities of AS

individuals the insistence in recommended the traditional behavioristic

approach with our children. Most of the well balanced interventions with AS

children include several approaches, including some behavioristic aspects,

but also a lot of accommodations, and a lot of simply re-orienting the child

s difficulties towards more productive applications of their challenges.

They are not Pavlov's dogs, and nothing was known about Asperger's Syndrome

at the time of BF Skinner. Heavy behavioristic techniques may be good for

autistic children with severe behavioral

problems or with added issues such as mental retardation or other problems.

For the bright people that many of our AS children are, stimulus-response

interventions have some good but limited use.

Thanks and have a great day. F

------------ --------- --------- ---

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

October 31, 2006

Seth does that too. (Age Five) It's very disturbing and he's been

doing it since he was very small. I don't know why.

Amber

Hi ,

>

> I truly think that you need to study more about what ABA is and how

it works. The desciption you paint below seems to me to demonstrate a

complete misunderstanding. ABA is not a therapy for children with

autism. It is an understanding of why people act and behave the way

that they do. Then it is the application of that understanding to help

people in meaningful ways. ABA has nothing to do with autism,

Asperger's or disorders in general. ABA is useful for helping all

people with all kinds of problems. ABA is nothing more than a

scientifically validated method of teaching. It is so widely used for

ASD because it is so successful in areas that other types of

interventions have failed.

>

> I would never say that a child is trying to manipulate us. I would

say however, that children and all people in general tend to repeat

behaviors that are successful in gaining their desired result. For

instance, there are roads in your town that you might be more likely

to speed on when you are late for work. This is because something

about those roads have either through experience demonstrated to be

safe or share aspects of road other roads that you have successfully

sped on in the past. As you become a more experienced driver, you are

better able to discern what roads are safe to speed on and what roads

are dangerous to speed on. Drivers who don't speed at all likely learn

through experience that there are certain roads that are not safe

because of speeders but that is a different story for a different day.

The bottom line is that we learn from our experience to repeat things

that have been successful and avoid things that have not.

>

> If a child wants mom to come and play and mom is on the phone the

child might try waiting patiently for a few seconds. However, if

waiting doesn't seem to be getting the desired result, then the child

might get frustrated and make noise. If the noise is unsuccessful the

child might get angry and begin to cry. If mom gets off the phone and

gives the child more attention consistently only after he starts

crying, the child will be more likely to cry quicker and longer the

next time mom is on the phone and he wants her attention. Anything

that occurs after a behavior and increases the likelyhood of that

behavior is a reinforcer for that behavior. So in this example,

hanging up the phone and giving attention to the child is reinforcing

(making more likely) the behavior choice of crying. What the child is

being taught is that when you are not getting the attention you seek

the appropriate response is to begin to cry. Yes, the child is crying

because he is sad, but crying and

> being sad

> when someone is on the phone becomes a more valuable response when

it is successfully acheiving a certain goal. To not acknowledge this

is naive and detrimental to the child's future.

>

> Now, if after a tough day at work, mom decides, " no, he can cry all

day, but I am talking to my mother, " the child might start to cry and

expect his reinforcement. When that reinforcement doesn't come the

parent is using a principle called extinction. Staying on the phone is

refusing to reinforce a previously reinforced behavior is extinction.

Behaviorists and anyone working with a behaviorist would no that all

behaviors put on extinction will eventually decrease but only after an

extinction burst occurs. The extinction burst is a period of time that

the behavior intensifies before reducing. In our example the child

might cry for a while and when that doesn't work the child might yell,

throw himself to the ground, or hit himself in the head, etc.

>

> Knowing about the extinction burst and planning for it will allow

the parent to be sure to not get off the phone after these more severe

behavior choices. If she does, she knows that she will begin to

reinforce the behavior of yelling, throwing oneself down or hitting

oneself in the head. Again, any behavior that is reinforced is more

likely to reoccur. If mom, continues to refuse to get off the phone

when the child cries but begins getting off when the child yells, that

child will learn that yelling is now the new better behavior to use

when you want mom's attention. This child will no longer cry when mom

is on the phone but instead will go straight to yelling. Other

parent's might not respond the yelling but might get off the phone

when the child throws himself to the ground. This child will be

learning that slamming his body against things is the best way to get

others attention. Some kids find that they can usually get what they

want (some form of attention, escape

> from demand, or a control position in the interaction) when they hit

themselves on the head.

>

> However, if the mom has been taught about the extinction burst and

has prepared for it by protecting the child and items in the house,

the mom can ride out the extinction burst until the child decides

these behaviors are not working. Then when the child is quiet or finds

something else to do, mom can hang up the phone come running and play

with the child reinforcing this more effective and socially

appropriate response. When this is the behavior that is being

reinforced the child will begin to choose it instead of crying,

yelling, etc. This is what teaching is.

>

> This sort of understanding and application is all that ABA is. Now,

here is an example closer to what you are talking about with

Asperger's. I had a little boy 3 or 4 years old that we worked with

who at the time of our first consultation had not drinken anything but

chocolate milk for a reported two years. He utterly refused to drink

water, or soda, or juice. Nothing but Chocolate Milk. Any attempt at

getting him to drink anything else resulted in an immediate trantrum.

Ranting, raving, " No No, No " , " Who are you to tell me what I can

drink " " It doesn't taste good " " I hate it. " etc The family had decided

and were advised that the boy had some sort of a sensory issue and had

given up the fight. They accomodated for him, allowing him to drink

nothing but chocolate milk every day. At our consult the mom said, I

really wish I could get him to drink water because we have to brush

his teeth 5 times a day because of all of the sugar.

>

> After meeting him and assessing his interactions we decided to

implement a plan to motivate him to choose to drink water as well as

milk. We started playing with a great reinforcing toy that we brought

with us. When he was really enjoying it, we said okay all done and put

it away. Later, when he asked to play again we said sure but first we

need you to take a sip of this water. We put the water in front of him

and of course he refused, tantrumed, ran out of the room and threw

himself on the floor in the hallway. Instead of going after him and

giving these tantrum behaviors attention (feeding his beleif that they

were affecting us and might be successful), we just put the game on

the table, and continued talking amongst ourselves. After crying a few

minutes, stopping and waiting, looking for us to come, banging his

feet on the ground to get us to attend to him, crying a few more times

(half heartedly), he eventually (about 20 minutes later) got up came

back to us and

> tried talking with mom. Mom chatted with him but as soon as he asked

to play with the toy or any of the other toys we brought the answer

was " Sure but first you have to take a sip of this water. " After a

second tantrum (much shorter than the first) he came back again and

again we offered him the water. By the 4th refusal, he took the glass,

put it to his lips and took the tinyest of sips. We all cheered, swung

him in the air, pulled out the toys, played with him and had a great

time. He looked so proud of himself and loved the attention he got. A

little later when he wanted to play with the toy again we said take a

sip. This time, no tantrum just a reflex answer " no " but then quickly

took a tiny sip. He even wimpered a little when he put the glass to

his lips. But he took a sip. A few trials later, he was grabbing the

cup and taking sips without even being asked. Within three days he was

drinking full glasses of water out of a glass and even began drinking

at the

> water fountain in school.

>

> This was a two year " sensory issue " that was overcome in a three day

period by using the proper mixture of motivation and reinforcement.

Now, to answer your question, are the kids really trying to manipulate

us or just trying to get their way. No, they are, like we are, very

good at using the behavior that works best. The difference is, without

analysis, we can only guess what the purpose of that behavior is.

Without knowing the purpose we cannot decide if , when, or how to

effectively reinforce it.

>

> Our institute works with over 160 children worldwide and the above

examples are generally the case. My wife hates speaking in front of an

audience, but by giving her small groups and small amounts of

information to share, I helped her to desensitize herself to this

aversion. Although she prefers to keep the giant presentations to me,

she really enjoys speaking in smaller gatherings and she is more

successful in her chosen field because of it. That is ABA.

>

> To answer the other question about a child being too apparent and

open to ever deceive or lie. I agree, I don't think the kids are

trying to decieve, manipulate, or lie at all. I think they are (as we

are) continuing to the use the behaviors that are most successful for

them. If we do not know the purpose of a behavior, we will undoubtedly

be unable to influence what becomes successful or not. Remember the

little boy who started drinking water after three days. two weeks

later we got a call from his mom. " Well, he is drinking water but now

he is refusing to drink out of a glass and will only drink out of

water fountains or faucetts. " " What should I do, is it a sensory

issue, does he hate the way glasses feel? " At our next visit we did

the same thing again and he was drinking out of glasses at home in a

day. Later we called to see how he was doing. Mom said great, but now

he will drink out of glasses, but only at home. He refuses to drink

anything bought at the store.

>

> The truth is with many (not all kids) sensory issues are sensory

preferences that get reinforced to the point the child feels entitled

to them and even begins to believe he needs them. The more you are

willing to placate these preferences, or use extinction and give in to

the extinction burst, the stronger they become. Often when a child has

gotten his environment to begin giving in to sensory demands, you

begin to see the number of sensory demands grow. With some kids this

grows exponentially. We have had kids who started out refusing to

allow their parents put their left shoe on first. When parents forget

and try to begin with the " wrong " shoe, the child tantrums and the

parents reinforce this tantrum by changing to the right shoe. Caring,

hard, working but tired parents or teachers can easily rationalize,

" hey this isn't so important, I don't care what shoe he puts on

first. " But as was the case with this boy, suddenly he began refusing

odd amounts of food. Meaning

> if you gave him more than one chip you had to give him 2, 4, 6 etc.

If you gave him an odd number he would give one back or refuse to eat

them at all. Later, he began to insist that his parents only drive one

way home from school and would have a melt down whenever they turned

off of the expected route. The parents began to accomodate for this by

trying their best to follow his preferred paths and running errands

when he wasn't in the car. Until we came in and helped them develop a

plan that motivated the child to accept flexibility and reinforced him

when he did, these issues showed every sign of continued increase.

>

> So , perhaps you have found that you and your family can accept

your child's sensory preferences and accomodate for them in a way that

you feel you are being kind to your child. I can respect that.

However, I feel compelled to share my belief and experience that it is

more kind to give people the opportunity to overcome their

difficulties and live more varied and successful lives. If the child

this thread began about, were to stop eating in the lunchroom because

of the loud noise, what would the parents do next if he began

complaining about the noise in the school gym, should he be allowed to

sit out of PE as well? What if he began reacting adversely to

activities in the multi purpose room, should he miss out on plays and

holdiay parties? What if he reacted to the kids clapping in a movie

theatre or in the classroom after a movie. Should the others in the

theater be taught not to clap or should the child only be expected to

watch DVD's alone in his house?

>

> Before beginning my institute, I worked for 4 years as an Inclusion

specialist for a school dist. in California. It was my job to fully

include children with Autism, Asperger's and other labelled disorders

in regular classrooms. My biggest question was always trying to figure

out when did we teach the child to live up to the expectations of the

class and when did we accomodate for the child's difficulties. Every

child who was pushed to improve his skills and abilities to meet the

environment did better and had more opportunity to enjoy positive

social experiences than the ones whose parents faught for them to be

accomodated at every turn.

>

> Don't get me wrong. Like you, I agree that it is important to pick

your battles. We do not want or need a bunch of perfect little

stepford children running around. It is not effective or fair to

attack every sensory issue at the same time. However, addressing the

biggest most problematic ones first is a worthwhile endeavor. The

alternative is to accomodate first and teach second. When we do this,

what we end up teaching our kids is that the level of skill and

ability they have at this very moment is is appropriate for the rest

of their life. I cannot say that I know a single child that has all

the skills and abilities he will need to be a successful adult.

>

> In my book I say, Just because someone is difficult to teach doesn't

mean they do not have a right to learn or their teachers have a right

not to teach them. By the way, your parents acted without a

scientifically validated approach to helping your siblings but tried

to do so anyway. I don't recommend this. But I also don't recommend

letting other peoples failed attempts act as a reason not to try.

>

> I truly tried to not to get personal with this email and just focus

on teaching. I hope I have succeeded and you read this email in

factual manner that it was intended.

>

> ________________________

> Schramm, MA, BCBA

> www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

> www.knospe-aba.de

> ________________________

>

> ( ) Re: Eating in the Cafeteria

>

> My son had exactly the same problem when he first started

kindergarten. It was absolutely overwhelming for him. He has sound,

smell and texture hypersensitivities. We solved the cafeteria one

talking to the teachers and counselor, and packing lunch from home in

labeled bags. The teachers stopped trying to get him to eat the school

lunch, and he could focus on eating his lunch simply following the labels.

>

> I'm totally for doing as much accommodations as possible. The lives

of children with autism and ours as parents are hard enough. It is

very easy to say: " they just want to get it their way, they are just

manipulating you " . And perhaps some parents are wonderful perfect

educators capable of controlling every aspect of their children's

behavior. But my bet is that most of us are not. Most of us work very

hard, get annoyed at work, have the permanent concern of 'how is my

child doing', and many of us eventually get tired at the end of the day.

>

> What my wife and I do is we just pick our fights with our son... as

few as possible. And we try hard to find healthy alternatives for all

those situations that affect our son, because we recognize that he has

real sensory problems, real emotional problems, real cognitive

problems. We could choose to let him suffer enough until he gets

desensitized and we don't have to worry more about all those things,

assuming that real life is tough and he needs to get tough. That was

what my parents, out of the ignorance about AU in their time, did with

3 of my siblings who were clearly AS. And I can tell you that the

outcome was not good at all.

>

> The hardest thing for us as parents of an AS child is to reach a

balance... what do we force upon him, what do we accommodate, and what

do we just let it pass. And all these in light of our profound love

and commitment for our son's happiness, but also our own sanity. What

we have found is that there is not a formula. It's a work in progress.

Each day brings new challenges.

>

> I must confess that I found somewhat insensitive towards the

realities of AS individuals the insistence in recommended the

traditional behavioristic approach with our children. Most of the well

balanced interventions with AS children include several approaches,

including some behavioristic aspects, but also a lot of

accommodations, and a lot of simply re-orienting the child's

difficulties towards more productive applications of their challenges.

They are not Pavlov's dogs, and nothing was known about Asperger's

Syndrome at the time of BF Skinner. Heavy behavioristic techniques may

be good for autistic children with severe behavioral

>

> problems or with added issues such as mental retardation or other

problems. For the bright people that many of our AS children are,

stimulus-response interventions have some good but limited use.

>

> Thanks and have a great day. F

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ---

>

> Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

>

October 31, 2006

mY SON PUNCHES HIS HEAD ALSO, HE IS 7. NOT DOING IT AS MUCH AS HE

USED TO.

Hi ,

> >

> > I truly think that you need to study more about what ABA is and

how

> it works. The desciption you paint below seems to me to demonstrate

a

> complete misunderstanding. ABA is not a therapy for children with

> autism. It is an understanding of why people act and behave the way

> that they do. Then it is the application of that understanding to

help

> people in meaningful ways. ABA has nothing to do with autism,

> Asperger's or disorders in general. ABA is useful for helping all

> people with all kinds of problems. ABA is nothing more than a

> scientifically validated method of teaching. It is so widely used

for

> ASD because it is so successful in areas that other types of

> interventions have failed.

> >

> > I would never say that a child is trying to manipulate us. I would

> say however, that children and all people in general tend to repeat

> behaviors that are successful in gaining their desired result. For

> instance, there are roads in your town that you might be more likely

> to speed on when you are late for work. This is because something

> about those roads have either through experience demonstrated to be

> safe or share aspects of road other roads that you have successfully

> sped on in the past. As you become a more experienced driver, you

are

> better able to discern what roads are safe to speed on and what

roads

> are dangerous to speed on. Drivers who don't speed at all likely

learn

> through experience that there are certain roads that are not safe

> because of speeders but that is a different story for a different

day.

> The bottom line is that we learn from our experience to repeat

things

> that have been successful and avoid things that have not.

> >

> > If a child wants mom to come and play and mom is on the phone the

> child might try waiting patiently for a few seconds. However, if

> waiting doesn't seem to be getting the desired result, then the

child

> might get frustrated and make noise. If the noise is unsuccessful

the

> child might get angry and begin to cry. If mom gets off the phone

and

> gives the child more attention consistently only after he starts

> crying, the child will be more likely to cry quicker and longer the

> next time mom is on the phone and he wants her attention. Anything

> that occurs after a behavior and increases the likelyhood of that

> behavior is a reinforcer for that behavior. So in this example,

> hanging up the phone and giving attention to the child is

reinforcing

> (making more likely) the behavior choice of crying. What the child

is

> being taught is that when you are not getting the attention you seek

> the appropriate response is to begin to cry. Yes, the child is

crying

> because he is sad, but crying and

> > being sad

> > when someone is on the phone becomes a more valuable response when

> it is successfully acheiving a certain goal. To not acknowledge this

> is naive and detrimental to the child's future.

> >

> > Now, if after a tough day at work, mom decides, " no, he can cry

all

> day, but I am talking to my mother, " the child might start to cry

and

> expect his reinforcement. When that reinforcement doesn't come the

> parent is using a principle called extinction. Staying on the phone

is

> refusing to reinforce a previously reinforced behavior is

extinction.

> Behaviorists and anyone working with a behaviorist would no that all

> behaviors put on extinction will eventually decrease but only after

an

> extinction burst occurs. The extinction burst is a period of time

that

> the behavior intensifies before reducing. In our example the child

> might cry for a while and when that doesn't work the child might

yell,

> throw himself to the ground, or hit himself in the head, etc.

> >

> > Knowing about the extinction burst and planning for it will allow

> the parent to be sure to not get off the phone after these more

severe

> behavior choices. If she does, she knows that she will begin to

> reinforce the behavior of yelling, throwing oneself down or hitting

> oneself in the head. Again, any behavior that is reinforced is more

> likely to reoccur. If mom, continues to refuse to get off the phone

> when the child cries but begins getting off when the child yells,

that

> child will learn that yelling is now the new better behavior to use

> when you want mom's attention. This child will no longer cry when

mom

> is on the phone but instead will go straight to yelling. Other

> parent's might not respond the yelling but might get off the phone

> when the child throws himself to the ground. This child will be

> learning that slamming his body against things is the best way to

get

> others attention. Some kids find that they can usually get what they

> want (some form of attention, escape

> > from demand, or a control position in the interaction) when they

hit

> themselves on the head.

> >

> > However, if the mom has been taught about the extinction burst and

> has prepared for it by protecting the child and items in the house,

> the mom can ride out the extinction burst until the child decides

> these behaviors are not working. Then when the child is quiet or

finds

> something else to do, mom can hang up the phone come running and

play

> with the child reinforcing this more effective and socially

> appropriate response. When this is the behavior that is being

> reinforced the child will begin to choose it instead of crying,

> yelling, etc. This is what teaching is.

> >

> > This sort of understanding and application is all that ABA is.

Now,

> here is an example closer to what you are talking about with

> Asperger's. I had a little boy 3 or 4 years old that we worked with

> who at the time of our first consultation had not drinken anything

but

> chocolate milk for a reported two years. He utterly refused to drink

> water, or soda, or juice. Nothing but Chocolate Milk. Any attempt at

> getting him to drink anything else resulted in an immediate

trantrum.

> Ranting, raving, " No No, No " , " Who are you to tell me what I can

> drink " " It doesn't taste good " " I hate it. " etc The family had

decided

> and were advised that the boy had some sort of a sensory issue and

had

> given up the fight. They accomodated for him, allowing him to drink

> nothing but chocolate milk every day. At our consult the mom said, I

> really wish I could get him to drink water because we have to brush

> his teeth 5 times a day because of all of the sugar.

> >

> > After meeting him and assessing his interactions we decided to

> implement a plan to motivate him to choose to drink water as well as

> milk. We started playing with a great reinforcing toy that we

brought

> with us. When he was really enjoying it, we said okay all done and

put

> it away. Later, when he asked to play again we said sure but first

we

> need you to take a sip of this water. We put the water in front of

him

> and of course he refused, tantrumed, ran out of the room and threw

> himself on the floor in the hallway. Instead of going after him and

> giving these tantrum behaviors attention (feeding his beleif that

they

> were affecting us and might be successful), we just put the game on

> the table, and continued talking amongst ourselves. After crying a

few

> minutes, stopping and waiting, looking for us to come, banging his

> feet on the ground to get us to attend to him, crying a few more

times

> (half heartedly), he eventually (about 20 minutes later) got up came

> back to us and

> > tried talking with mom. Mom chatted with him but as soon as he

asked

> to play with the toy or any of the other toys we brought the answer

> was " Sure but first you have to take a sip of this water. " After a

> second tantrum (much shorter than the first) he came back again and

> again we offered him the water. By the 4th refusal, he took the

glass,

> put it to his lips and took the tinyest of sips. We all cheered,

swung

> him in the air, pulled out the toys, played with him and had a great

> time. He looked so proud of himself and loved the attention he got.

A

> little later when he wanted to play with the toy again we said take

a

> sip. This time, no tantrum just a reflex answer " no " but then

quickly

> took a tiny sip. He even wimpered a little when he put the glass to

> his lips. But he took a sip. A few trials later, he was grabbing the

> cup and taking sips without even being asked. Within three days he

was

> drinking full glasses of water out of a glass and even began

drinking

> at the

> > water fountain in school.

> >

> > This was a two year " sensory issue " that was overcome in a three

day

> period by using the proper mixture of motivation and reinforcement.

> Now, to answer your question, are the kids really trying to

manipulate

> us or just trying to get their way. No, they are, like we are, very

> good at using the behavior that works best. The difference is,

without

> analysis, we can only guess what the purpose of that behavior is.

> Without knowing the purpose we cannot decide if , when, or how to

> effectively reinforce it.

> >

> > Our institute works with over 160 children worldwide and the above

> examples are generally the case. My wife hates speaking in front of

an

> audience, but by giving her small groups and small amounts of

> information to share, I helped her to desensitize herself to this

> aversion. Although she prefers to keep the giant presentations to

me,

> she really enjoys speaking in smaller gatherings and she is more

> successful in her chosen field because of it. That is ABA.

> >

> > To answer the other question about a child being too apparent and

> open to ever deceive or lie. I agree, I don't think the kids are

> trying to decieve, manipulate, or lie at all. I think they are (as

we

> are) continuing to the use the behaviors that are most successful

for

> them. If we do not know the purpose of a behavior, we will

undoubtedly

> be unable to influence what becomes successful or not. Remember the

> little boy who started drinking water after three days. two weeks

> later we got a call from his mom. " Well, he is drinking water but

now

> he is refusing to drink out of a glass and will only drink out of

> water fountains or faucetts. " " What should I do, is it a sensory

> issue, does he hate the way glasses feel? " At our next visit we did

> the same thing again and he was drinking out of glasses at home in a

> day. Later we called to see how he was doing. Mom said great, but

now

> he will drink out of glasses, but only at home. He refuses to drink

> anything bought at the store.

> >

> > The truth is with many (not all kids) sensory issues are sensory

> preferences that get reinforced to the point the child feels

entitled

> to them and even begins to believe he needs them. The more you are

> willing to placate these preferences, or use extinction and give in

to

> the extinction burst, the stronger they become. Often when a child

has

> gotten his environment to begin giving in to sensory demands, you

> begin to see the number of sensory demands grow. With some kids this

> grows exponentially. We have had kids who started out refusing to

> allow their parents put their left shoe on first. When parents

forget

> and try to begin with the " wrong " shoe, the child tantrums and the

> parents reinforce this tantrum by changing to the right shoe.

Caring,

> hard, working but tired parents or teachers can easily rationalize,

> " hey this isn't so important, I don't care what shoe he puts on

> first. " But as was the case with this boy, suddenly he began

refusing

> odd amounts of food. Meaning

> > if you gave him more than one chip you had to give him 2, 4, 6

etc.

> If you gave him an odd number he would give one back or refuse to

eat

> them at all. Later, he began to insist that his parents only drive

one

> way home from school and would have a melt down whenever they turned

> off of the expected route. The parents began to accomodate for this

by

> trying their best to follow his preferred paths and running errands

> when he wasn't in the car. Until we came in and helped them develop

a

> plan that motivated the child to accept flexibility and reinforced

him

> when he did, these issues showed every sign of continued increase.

> >

> > So , perhaps you have found that you and your family can

accept

> your child's sensory preferences and accomodate for them in a way

that

> you feel you are being kind to your child. I can respect that.

> However, I feel compelled to share my belief and experience that it

is

> more kind to give people the opportunity to overcome their

> difficulties and live more varied and successful lives. If the child

> this thread began about, were to stop eating in the lunchroom

because

> of the loud noise, what would the parents do next if he began

> complaining about the noise in the school gym, should he be allowed

to

> sit out of PE as well? What if he began reacting adversely to

> activities in the multi purpose room, should he miss out on plays

and

> holdiay parties? What if he reacted to the kids clapping in a movie

> theatre or in the classroom after a movie. Should the others in the

> theater be taught not to clap or should the child only be expected

to

> watch DVD's alone in his house?

> >

> > Before beginning my institute, I worked for 4 years as an

Inclusion

> specialist for a school dist. in California. It was my job to fully

> include children with Autism, Asperger's and other labelled

disorders

> in regular classrooms. My biggest question was always trying to

figure

> out when did we teach the child to live up to the expectations of

the

> class and when did we accomodate for the child's difficulties. Every

> child who was pushed to improve his skills and abilities to meet the

> environment did better and had more opportunity to enjoy positive

> social experiences than the ones whose parents faught for them to be

> accomodated at every turn.

> >

> > Don't get me wrong. Like you, I agree that it is important to pick

> your battles. We do not want or need a bunch of perfect little

> stepford children running around. It is not effective or fair to

> attack every sensory issue at the same time. However, addressing the

> biggest most problematic ones first is a worthwhile endeavor. The

> alternative is to accomodate first and teach second. When we do

this,

> what we end up teaching our kids is that the level of skill and

> ability they have at this very moment is is appropriate for the rest

> of their life. I cannot say that I know a single child that has all

> the skills and abilities he will need to be a successful adult.

> >

> > In my book I say, Just because someone is difficult to teach

doesn't

> mean they do not have a right to learn or their teachers have a

right

> not to teach them. By the way, your parents acted without a

> scientifically validated approach to helping your siblings but tried

> to do so anyway. I don't recommend this. But I also don't recommend

> letting other peoples failed attempts act as a reason not to try.

> >

> > I truly tried to not to get personal with this email and just

focus

> on teaching. I hope I have succeeded and you read this email in

> factual manner that it was intended.

> >

> > ________________________

> > Schramm, MA, BCBA

> > www.lulu.com/knospe-aba

> > www.knospe-aba.de

> > ________________________

> >

> > ( ) Re: Eating in the Cafeteria

> >

> > My son had exactly the same problem when he first started

> kindergarten. It was absolutely overwhelming for him. He has sound,

> smell and texture hypersensitivities. We solved the cafeteria one

> talking to the teachers and counselor, and packing lunch from home

in

> labeled bags. The teachers stopped trying to get him to eat the

school

> lunch, and he could focus on eating his lunch simply following the

labels.

> >

> > I'm totally for doing as much accommodations as possible. The

lives

> of children with autism and ours as parents are hard enough. It is

> very easy to say: " they just want to get it their way, they are just

> manipulating you " . And perhaps some parents are wonderful perfect

> educators capable of controlling every aspect of their children's

> behavior. But my bet is that most of us are not. Most of us work

very

> hard, get annoyed at work, have the permanent concern of 'how is my

> child doing', and many of us eventually get tired at the end of the

day.

> >

> > What my wife and I do is we just pick our fights with our son...

as

> few as possible. And we try hard to find healthy alternatives for

all

> those situations that affect our son, because we recognize that he

has

> real sensory problems, real emotional problems, real cognitive

> problems. We could choose to let him suffer enough until he gets

> desensitized and we don't have to worry more about all those things,

> assuming that real life is tough and he needs to get tough. That was

> what my parents, out of the ignorance about AU in their time, did

with

> 3 of my siblings who were clearly AS. And I can tell you that the

> outcome was not good at all.

> >

> > The hardest thing for us as parents of an AS child is to reach a

> balance... what do we force upon him, what do we accommodate, and

what

> do we just let it pass. And all these in light of our profound love

> and commitment for our son's happiness, but also our own sanity.

What

> we have found is that there is not a formula. It's a work in

progress.

> Each day brings new challenges.

> >

> > I must confess that I found somewhat insensitive towards the

> realities of AS individuals the insistence in recommended the

> traditional behavioristic approach with our children. Most of the

well

> balanced interventions with AS children include several approaches,

> including some behavioristic aspects, but also a lot of

> accommodations, and a lot of simply re-orienting the child's

> difficulties towards more productive applications of their

challenges.

> They are not Pavlov's dogs, and nothing was known about Asperger's

> Syndrome at the time of BF Skinner. Heavy behavioristic techniques

may

> be good for autistic children with severe behavioral

> >

> > problems or with added issues such as mental retardation or other

> problems. For the bright people that many of our AS children are,

> stimulus-response interventions have some good but limited use.

> >

> > Thanks and have a great day. F

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> >

> > Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

rates.

> >

November 1, 2006

Mine head bangs and is 13. Low self esteem. He pulled out handfuls of hair

when he was little and banged his head. Now he rubs his head on the wall,

which causes a nice 'rug burn' sore right in front by his hairline (so I can

tell when he has had a rough day) and he head bangs. Sometimes the

headbanging is not real self harm, to the extent I have to stop him (putting

hands on him during a meltdown causes more problems so we avoid it unless he

is becoming really self harmful, or will potentially harm another). Often

it is seems almost like the 'rockers' not even hard enough to leave a bump,

but repetitive in a pattern almost.

My son has hit him self in his head when he is frustrated because he messed

up, usually not real hard. I try to tell him that it is not his fault, or

not that big a deal. Usually it seems it is from having low self esteem and

the feeling he doesn't do anything right. So I try to figure what we can do

to cheer him up. But I have to say, hitting himself in the head (at least

the way my son does) is not the biggest of my worries.

Mon he had a rough day and took his shoe laces out and wrapped them around

his neck. They told he they would cut them or he could take them off,

fortunately he gave them to the staff.

I just want him to make it through puberty. Right now it seems we are on

some kind of roller coaster, but I am not liking the ride.

Kathy K

toozie@...

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of ladyabyrose

Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:54 AM

Subject: ( ) Re: punching his own head