Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi sue, How experienced was the person testing your son's IQ? Do you feel your son regressed from when he was first DXed to now? Do you see a concern with him? Why did you have him retested? maybe you would consider retesting him with a different DR. Maybe the first IQ testing wasn't correct. How much of a difference is and IQ of 80 compared to 50? I would also have 101 Questions too... tstak2 <tstak2@...> wrote: Why would someone's IQ drop???? My son had an IQ test in kindergarten and the score was 80. He just had it tested again at 15 and it is 50 now. Why????? Do I need to go by this? How much does an IQ test matter? Should I go by this with his curriculum???? Sorry for the 101 questions. I'm concerned about his IQ. Thanks Sue --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 The tester was a very experienced not only psychologist but also works and has worked for years with autistic kids. He was very very friendly and my son loved him. Yes I feel he has regressed and that's something I am really worried about too (the Drs. not worried but I am) Well no not regressed past a 5 year old, he matured and then this past year he has regressed. I just know 80 is borderline and 50 is severly low. The school district wanted this testing done, it was more than just IQ but that was involved also. Thanks, Sue > Why would someone's IQ drop???? My son had an IQ test in kindergarten > and the score was 80. He just had it tested again at 15 and it is 50 > now. Why????? Do I need to go by this? How much does an IQ test > matter? Should I go by this with his curriculum???? Sorry for the > 101 questions. I'm concerned about his IQ. > Thanks Sue > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sue, are you able to get back to the Dr. that did the testing? I can relate, after my son and I worked so very hard all these years, If his IQ testing came back different, I would have a list of questions ready. if your able to speak with him again. maybe you can ask if there is a way to get his IQ back up? When people on this site write in with their questions, I would add it to that list. Is there a reason why his IQ dropped? I don't know anything about IQ's, except what you just explained. I would imagine its important, cause they have testing for it, and the school recommend the testing. A question for the school. What concern did they have for requesting his IQ testing and others? start from there. Does the school have goals, and an IEP set for September? if so, How comfortable are you with that? Also, a question for the Dr. Why is the Dr. not concerned with his IQ? Hugs to you. tstak2 <tstak2@...> wrote: The tester was a very experienced not only psychologist but also works and has worked for years with autistic kids. He was very very friendly and my son loved him. Yes I feel he has regressed and that's something I am really worried about too (the Drs. not worried but I am) Well no not regressed past a 5 year old, he matured and then this past year he has regressed. I just know 80 is borderline and 50 is severly low. The school district wanted this testing done, it was more than just IQ but that was involved also. Thanks, Sue > Why would someone's IQ drop???? My son had an IQ test in kindergarten > and the score was 80. He just had it tested again at 15 and it is 50 > now. Why????? Do I need to go by this? How much does an IQ test > matter? Should I go by this with his curriculum???? Sorry for the > 101 questions. I'm concerned about his IQ. > Thanks Sue > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Sue, There a few different reasons why IQ changes from test to test. A) Different tests for different ages will inevitably produce different results. Environmental reasons - Diet, chemical exposure, sleep, stress and other factors can wreak havoc on our day to day cognitive abilities. For instance " " and " Benny " have the same intellect and abilities. eats a diet rich in Omega 3 fatty acids (fish), fruits and veggies for a week before her test and gets 9 hours of sleep each night in a safe and comforting environment. Benny eats kids meals and drinks 6 sodas each day for a week before his test. He stays up late to watch TV and has to be drug out of bed each morning for school. His home is good but he has allot of stress in his life. Now, of course, will do much better on her test than Benny will. Same brains, different lives. C) Internal neurochemical functions can influence our cognitive functioning. Hormonal spikes, headaches, etc, can influence how clearly we think at any given moment. D) In testing situations, mood and interest are also critical. If you are in a pleasant mood and anticipating your test, you will focus better on it and get better results than if you were in a grumpy apathetic mood. E) Sadly, this one is possible - The IQ actually did go down over the years. I would not take that as gospel yet though. Get him retested, at least twice. If his new tests are dramatically different, then take the best. If they are similar then average the score. Make sure his diet is well supplemented; he is focused on the test and is in a good mod when retaking these tests. Also, make sure they are administered by different people and preferably are actually different tests altogether. Do multiple retests at least once every 3 years as our children can change dramatically over a relatively short amount of time. I know about the variable nature of IQ scores as mine has been on a bit of a roller coaster ride over the years as well. When I was in the 3rd grade I was tested at 128. At 15, 132. At 21, 111. At 25, 147. At 26, 164. At 29, 162. At 30, 147 + 164 + 114 + 132 ( I was aware of the testing problems at this point and took multiple tests to get an accurate average). See for your self. Find a good online IQ test and take it once a week (under varying circumstances) for a month. I'll bet you money no two scores are exactly alike. In fact, you'll probably be quite surprised at the differences. In the end though, IQ isn't as crucial as we tell ourselves it is. I have known MANY brilliant failures and have met just as many average or sub-average IQ people who did fantastic things with their lives. As long as your child is happy and lives a good life, that is all that matters. Really :-). Best wishes, Tabitha _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of tstak2 Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: ( ) IQ question Why would someone's IQ drop???? My son had an IQ test in kindergarten and the score was 80. He just had it tested again at 15 and it is 50 now. Why????? Do I need to go by this? How much does an IQ test matter? Should I go by this with his curriculum???? Sorry for the 101 questions. I'm concerned about his IQ. Thanks Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Why would it be so long between evaluations? It would have been interesting to have had some testing done between those two so you could see any trends. IQ scores can drop for some reasons but overall, it probably shouldn't change a whole lot. Tests on young kids might not be as reliable due to their age. The examiner(s) might not be very good at giving the tests or the child doesn't do a good job the day he is taking the test. IQ scores can drop when the child has a learning disability that is not remediated - eventually, the problem will show up as the child cannot keep up any longer and gets behind. Then the IQ score goes down. I think this is called " the Effect " and you can probably find it on slaw.com. If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the results, you can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I would personally do that to see what is going on. Another thing to think about is looking at the subtest scores. If there are huge gaps between those scores, then it is likely a problem with a learning disability. You can't really average some scores and get an accurate IQ score. So I would talk to the examiner or the independent evaluator to go over all the subtest scores and explain to you what it means. Roxanna ( ) IQ question Why would someone's IQ drop???? My son had an IQ test in kindergarten and the score was 80. He just had it tested again at 15 and it is 50 now. Why????? Do I need to go by this? How much does an IQ test matter? Should I go by this with his curriculum???? Sorry for the 101 questions. I'm concerned about his IQ. Thanks Sue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 8/18/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, madideas@... writes: If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the results, you can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I would personally do that to see what is going on. This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a year's time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same results. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Definitely - they would have to do other testing/similar testing. But I would still do it because I want to know where those 30 points went! Plus, this low of a score puts the child in the MR range. I would want to know why. Roxanna Re: ( ) IQ question In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, madideas@... writes: If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the results, you can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I would personally do that to see what is going on. This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a year's time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same results. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 >I don't know if someone already mentioned this but IQ test scores drop expenentally as people get older. It's practically impossible to get an accurate score after the early elementary school years. That's why they typically recommend not doing IQ tests after early childhood. Just a thought. Amber > > In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > madideas@... writes: > > If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the results, you > can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I would > personally do that to see what is going on. > > > > This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a year's > time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same results. Pam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Where did you hear that? Roxanna Re: ( ) IQ question >I don't know if someone already mentioned this but IQ test scores drop expenentally as people get older. It's practically impossible to get an accurate score after the early elementary school years. That's why they typically recommend not doing IQ tests after early childhood. Just a thought. Amber > > In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > madideas@... writes: > > If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the results, you > can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I would > personally do that to see what is going on. > > > > This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a year's > time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same results. Pam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Actually, I've read in multiple places. My husband can do the actual conversion for you on how they would change but I don't know exactly. He did it for me when we first read the post. But anyway, we have about 19 differernt IQ tests for adults in my house (my husband has a fascination with IQ tests, don't ask me to explain it) and all of them have a preface at the begining where they talk about how hard it is to get an actual IQ reading on an adult or anyone really who isn't a small child. Six or seven is ideal. Younger than that doesn't work all that well either. Amber -- In , " Roxanna " <madideas@...> wrote: > > Where did you hear that? > > > Roxanna > Re: ( ) IQ question > > > > >I don't know if someone already mentioned this but IQ test scores > drop expenentally as people get older. It's practically impossible to > get an accurate score after the early elementary school years. That's > why they typically recommend not doing IQ tests after early childhood. > Just a thought. > > Amber > > > > > In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > madideas@ writes: > > > > If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the > results, you > > can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I > would > > personally do that to see what is going on. > > > > > > > > This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a > year's > > time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same > results. Pam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Actually, I've read in multiple places. My husband can do the actual conversion for you on how they would change but I don't know exactly. He did it for me when we first read the post. But anyway, we have about 19 differernt IQ tests for adults in my house (my husband has a fascination with IQ tests, don't ask me to explain it) and all of them have a preface at the begining where they talk about how hard it is to get an actual IQ reading on an adult or anyone really who isn't a small child. Six or seven is ideal. Younger than that doesn't work all that well either. Amber -- In , " Roxanna " <madideas@...> wrote: > > Where did you hear that? > > > Roxanna > Re: ( ) IQ question > > > > >I don't know if someone already mentioned this but IQ test scores > drop expenentally as people get older. It's practically impossible to > get an accurate score after the early elementary school years. That's > why they typically recommend not doing IQ tests after early childhood. > Just a thought. > > Amber > > > > > In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > madideas@ writes: > > > > If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the > results, you > > can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I > would > > personally do that to see what is going on. > > > > > > > > This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a > year's > > time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same > results. Pam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 So where would I read about that exactly? Roxanna Re: ( ) IQ question > > > > >I don't know if someone already mentioned this but IQ test scores > drop expenentally as people get older. It's practically impossible to > get an accurate score after the early elementary school years. That's > why they typically recommend not doing IQ tests after early childhood. > Just a thought. > > Amber > > > > > In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > madideas@ writes: > > > > If you do not feel this testing is accurate or you question the > results, you > > can request an outside independent evaluation at school expense. I > would > > personally do that to see what is going on. > > > > > > > > This is tricky, because usually testing cannot be repeated within a > year's > > time. They would have to do other testing to get to the same > results. Pam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml > > So where would I read about that exactly? > > > Roxanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 The first article is mere speculation based on studies comparing college age students with OLDER adults. This is by no means indicative of what truly happens to the general population when comparing trends over the span of an entire life. This is simply a study in extremes and really isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. As for the second article, I would really like to see supporting evidence to back up this doctors claim that people hit a " ceiling " at age 8 which thereafter limits their test results. Roxanna, I too am interested in your discussion with Amber. Considering that my IQ has increased over time, not decreased as she states (and this has been documented with family members as well), I find it hard to believe that actual studies exist (that aren't either controversial or nullified by studies with opposing results) proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that children's IQ's drop from the time they are 8 and continuously decline throughout life. I am in fact counting on the exact opposite happening with my son. Especially among our children, who find it hard to focus on tests for the most part, IQ would logically go up as these children mature and are better able to focus. Of course, that could just be my personal hope tainting my perspective but it does seem logical regardless. When I find the time, I will try to do some research to support the actual truth of the matter as I would like to see the evidence, either way. Best wishes, Tabitha _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of LJL Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:33 PM Subject: Re: ( ) IQ question http://www.scienced <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm> aily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm http://www.brainy- <http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml> child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml > > So where would I read about that exactly? > > > Roxanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 I had learned, while studying psychology and child development, that it is normal to see a dip in IQ scores during middle childhood. However, the dip is temporary, from what I recall. I did come across an article about the Flynn Effect http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/flynneffect.shtml which looks at the rising IQ trends of a population. One thing the study mentions is the constant need for IQ tests to be restandardized as IQ scores rise for a population. That is why the version your child took at age 6 may not be the same version of the test s/he takes 5 years later. There's a paragraph from the article that might be relevant to this discussion which I'll quote here: " A widely held hypothesis is that people lose fluid intelligence as they age. This phenomena is caused by comparing the IQ tests of elderly people with today's young people. However, when compared to the IQ scores of youth in their own era (a half a century before) the IQ losses with age are minimal (Raven, 1992, pp. G22-G26). In a final example, Flynn explains that the WISC, an intelligence test used widely in the United States, was not restandardized for 25 years between 1947 and 1972. This comparison of IQ scores to obsolete norms caused the number of children who were officially classified as mentally retarded to drop from 8.8 million in 1947 to 2.6 million in 1972 (Flynn, 1985). " Leah mother of DS age 9 AS, DD age 8 NT --------- Re: ( ) IQ question http://www.scienced <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm> aily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm http://www.brainy- <http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml> child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml > > So where would I read about that exactly? > > > Roxanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 So far, I can only find information to show that populations in general increase their IQ scores over time. This is called the " Flynn Effect " I think it said. The stuff I have read so far says that young kids (below age 6/7) are not accurate necessarily. But they are accurate about the age 6/7 and I don't see where it says you are not at an accurate score in the adult ages at all, except where it discuss old age related problems. Roxanna Re: ( ) IQ question http://www.scienced <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm> aily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm http://www.brainy- <http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml> child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml > > So where would I read about that exactly? > > > Roxanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Actually Tabitha, I never suggested that IQ itself drops. I said that tests tend not to be accurate the older one gets. And technically unless there is a serious problem one neither gets smarter or less intelligent as the years go by when intelligence is defined as the simple ability to process information. Although it knows less, a two year old can easily be far more intelligent than a fifty year old. Information does not make for intelligence. Intelligence is imperic and can be destroyed but doesn't just go around flexuating wildly. And they get that information the same way that they get almost all information that relates to the field of psychology which was my major in college and is an extremely soft science. They did more than one IQ test on the same children years apart and saw a decress in scores. From this they gathered the idea that tests become less effective as a child ages. That's the only proof that anyone is ever going to get on the subject. There's simply no way to prove the matter one or the other. All one can do is theorize and, like almost all soft science, find some kind of facts that seem to support your claim. Amber > The first article is mere speculation based on studies comparing college age > students with OLDER adults. This is by no means indicative of what truly > happens to the general population when comparing trends over the span of an > entire life. This is simply a study in extremes and really isn't relevant > to the discussion at hand. As for the second article, I would really > like to see supporting evidence to back up this doctors claim that people > hit a " ceiling " at age 8 which thereafter limits their test results. > > > > Roxanna, I too am interested in your discussion with Amber. Considering > that my IQ has increased over time, not decreased as she states (and this > has been documented with family members as well), I find it hard to believe > that actual studies exist (that aren't either controversial or nullified by > studies with opposing results) proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that > children's IQ's drop from the time they are 8 and continuously decline > throughout life. I am in fact counting on the exact opposite happening with > my son. Especially among our children, who find it hard to focus on tests > for the most part, IQ would logically go up as these children mature and are > better able to focus. Of course, that could just be my personal hope > tainting my perspective but it does seem logical regardless. > > > > When I find the time, I will try to do some research to support the actual > truth of the matter as I would like to see the evidence, either way. > > > > Best wishes, > > Tabitha > > > > _____ > > From: > [mailto: ] On Behalf Of LJL > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:33 PM > > Subject: Re: ( ) IQ question > > > > http://www.scienced > <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm> > aily.com/releases/2006/05/060504082306.htm > http://www.brainy- <http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml> > child.com/expert/iq-test-age.shtml > > > > > > > > So where would I read about that exactly? > > > > > > Roxanna > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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