Re: Hi! I am new with a question about school

March 17, 2006

When deciding eligibility for special education, you need documentation.

You have several options. You can disagree with the school department's

evaluation and request an independant evaluation. You can also request

mediation

to challenge the school department, but I would recommend having some outside

evaluations as evidence. Lastly, you may want someone to look very closely

at the school department's evaluation scores because your son could be scoring

very high on one test, lower in another and the overall score can appear

average. The school department would be responsible to address any deficit in

a

specific test area. Pam

March 18, 2006

Yes, I have had this problem. When we moved from Ohio to WV when Hannah (7 yrs

old 1st grade) was in Kindergarten the new schhol system gave her the CARS and

said that she scored too high to have autism. (IDEA 2004 makes the new state

honor the diagnosis from the old state.) They were ready to just label her

Behavior Disorder (BD) so I put off the IEP for a few weeks and took her back

to Cleveland to the developmental Ped that diagnosed her at 2.5 yrs. I told

her the problem I was having and I was not going to be able to get her

appropriate services without her writing " Hannah has autism " . I got copies of

the dr's eval to the school before her IEP. They then magically said that she

is borderline but DOES test in the autism range. I honestly feel without this

the school would have never gotten her an aide or appropriate speech services

at school.

I honestly feel she is a high aspgers now but I will not let her diagnosis be

changed because I an afraid she would lose service either now or later. And

with our kids symptoms may be few at one time and then they go thru puberty or

something and different issues appear.

So my advise is find a dr to diagnose your child. Then the school district

will have to pay attention to the diagnosis.

beccamp <beccamp@...> wrote: Has anybody had trouble getting the

school to admit your child has a

problem in order to avoid having to pay for special ed? My son is 7

and has had problems all his life, he did skip one year of school only

because I insisted they let him take the test, and he passed it.

I requested a full evaluation by the school this year. According to

the school psychologist my parent test said he was mid-range autism

and highly likely to have Asperger. According to the teachers

evaluations he had no problems. This is really strange to me because

everybody else that knows him seems to think he has issues. His IQ

reports showed him way above everyone else, and said he scored over

the age of 23 in memory skills, but he only scored around age 7 for

anything having to do with language or words. I didn't get any

special ed expect for speech therapy which I don't think relates to

the Asperger in his case because his gifted sister had the same

problem. This school has a history of denying special ed, just to save

dollars. I was angry at the meeting but managed say what I thought in

a nice way. I mentioned his not so great social behavior like

touching people in an inappropiate manner(like holding hands with boys

or patting ladies behinds) and they suggested he needed counseling.

Now the teacher who noticed nothing says that he is disruptive, and

wrote a tacky note on his report card. Everything she says about him

is classic Asperger. I am at a loss. We live in a small town more than

100 miles for any real help! Can anyone shed some light on this? I am

crazy or is this school just blind?

March 18, 2006

Dear Beccamp,

What were his performance iq and his verbal iq? My son's verbal

iq was off the charts high, but his performance iq was at least two

standard deviations below that. He automatically qualified for

special ed. His written language was also problematic. If he qualifies

for special ed and needs counseling, they need to provide it

during the school day. My son gets counseling during the

school day. It's of dubious quality, but he does get it. You

might want to get an independent educational evaluation

(IEE) at the district's expense, saying you disagree with

their evaluation.

Liz

On Mar 17, 2006, at 2:54 PM, beccamp wrote:

> Has anybody had trouble getting the school to admit your child has a

> problem in order to avoid having to pay for special ed? My son is 7

> and has had problems all his life, he did skip one year of school only

> because I insisted they let him take the test, and he passed it.

> I requested a full evaluation by the school this year. According to

> the school psychologist my parent test said he was mid-range autism

> and highly likely to have Asperger. According to the teachers

> evaluations he had no problems. This is really strange to me because

> everybody else that knows him seems to think he has issues. His IQ

> reports showed him way above everyone else, and said he scored over

> the age of 23 in memory skills, but he only scored around age 7 for

> anything having to do with language or words. I didn't get any

> special ed expect for speech therapy which I don't think relates to

> the Asperger in his case because his gifted sister had the same

> problem. This school has a history of denying special ed, just to save

> dollars. I was angry at the meeting but managed say what I thought in

> a nice way. I mentioned his not so great social behavior like

> touching people in an inappropiate manner(like holding hands with boys

> or patting ladies behinds) and they suggested he needed counseling.

> Now the teacher who noticed nothing says that he is disruptive, and

> wrote a tacky note on his report card. Everything she says about him

> is classic Asperger. I am at a loss. We live in a small town more than

> 100 miles for any real help! Can anyone shed some light on this? I am

> crazy or is this school just blind?

March 18, 2006

It doesn't say exactly what the performance IQ or

Verbal IQ was. Most of the things say he is way above

his level except in verbal phonemic awareness and

motor and he is average to slightly below average.

They say since he is not flunking he does not qualify

for special ed. When counseling was suggested, the

school psychologist (hired as a counsultant) thought

the school was going to provide it, but the guy in

charge jumped in and said that they would not, and

suggested a local place that treats drug addicts. I

never really expected they would do anything for him,

but I am afraid that without a diagnosis, that any

behavior problems will be treated as a discipline

problem. He is already having trouble with bullies and

the teacher has never even noticed. This school had

to have summer school last year after an audit of it's

special ed program, and they still don't care.

P.S. I am glad to hear that others have shoe tieing

problems, I have just been buying velcro or slip on.

Becky H. *Oklahoma

--- Liz Bohn <lbohn@...> wrote:

> Dear Beccamp,

>

> What were his performance iq and his verbal iq? My

> son's verbal

> iq was off the charts high, but his performance iq

> was at least two

> standard deviations below that. He automatically

> qualified for

> special ed. His written language was also

> problematic. If he qualifies

> for special ed and needs counseling, they need to

> provide it

> during the school day. My son gets counseling during

> the

> school day. It's of dubious quality, but he does get

> it. You

> might want to get an independent educational

> evaluation

> (IEE) at the district's expense, saying you disagree

> with

> their evaluation.

>

> Liz

>

> On Mar 17, 2006, at 2:54 PM, beccamp wrote:

>

> > Has anybody had trouble getting the school to

> admit your child has a

> > problem in order to avoid having to pay for

> special ed? My son is 7

> > and has had problems all his life, he did skip one

> year of school only

> > because I insisted they let him take the test, and

> he passed it.

> > I requested a full evaluation by the school this

> year. According to

> > the school psychologist my parent test said he was

> mid-range autism

> > and highly likely to have Asperger. According to

> the teachers

> > evaluations he had no problems. This is really

> strange to me because

> > everybody else that knows him seems to think he

> has issues. His IQ

> > reports showed him way above everyone else, and

> said he scored over

> > the age of 23 in memory skills, but he only scored

> around age 7 for

> > anything having to do with language or words. I

> didn't get any

> > special ed expect for speech therapy which I don't

> think relates to

> > the Asperger in his case because his gifted sister

> had the same

> > problem. This school has a history of denying

> special ed, just to save

> > dollars. I was angry at the meeting but managed

> say what I thought in

> > a nice way. I mentioned his not so great social

> behavior like

> > touching people in an inappropiate manner(like

> holding hands with boys

> > or patting ladies behinds) and they suggested he

> needed counseling.

> > Now the teacher who noticed nothing says that he

> is disruptive, and

> > wrote a tacky note on his report card. Everything

> she says about him

> > is classic Asperger. I am at a loss. We live in a

> small town more than

> > 100 miles for any real help! Can anyone shed some

> light on this? I am

> > crazy or is this school just blind?

>

March 18, 2006

Hi!

I'm new to this list, but NOT new to this sort of

thing...

" Has anybody had trouble getting the school to admit

your child has a problem in order to avoid having to

pay for special ed? "

Yes. Not myself, but many, MANY people I've talked to.

First of all, nobody's deliberately mean or dishonest.

The school's first priority (before your son, or

anyone else's) is the budget. They only have so much

money for special ed., and it's got to cover so many

kids. They have to choose which kids need it the most.

Compared to most, your child probably doesn't need it

as much as the other kids.

All the same, your son is entitled to services, if you

and everyone else see something. The school budget

system provides a situation EXACTLY the way you

phrased it. They will stretch the truth (some would

say LIE) to avoid paying. Simple math. It's terrible,

because it leaves people like you and your son out.

It's dishonest.

I feel so passionately about this because it's

happening right now to a good friend of mine (and it's

been going on for 2 years). It's so upsetting, and

gets me very frustrated for him. Unfortunately for

him, his mom thinks that " the school knows best " .

I disagree. You do (and, as you say, other people

notice things, too). If you disagree with the school,

I think you should have an independent evaluation

done. It might cost you (unless the school will fund

it), but it's well worth it. If the independent eval.

finds different things than the school, then you have

legal grounds. If the school doesn't take this eval.

into consideration, they might be violating Federal

law. I know here in MA, they have to go along with an

independent eval., but I don't know if this is per the

state or the whole U.S.

" I am crazy or is this school just blind? "

You are NOT crazy, although this situation makes you

probably think that at times! They aren't blind,

either, but as I said, they're at the worst,

dishonest.

Also, it depends on who's evaluating. A teacher's take

on a kid's situation is valuable, because she sees him

a lot. But she's NOT a psychologist, dev.

pediatrician, etc., etc. You and the school should

take what she has with a HUGE " grain of salt " (by the

way, this is the problem with my friend. " The teacher

says he's fine " , is what she tells me. UGH!) YOU (and

your husband) KNOW BEST. Not the school. They can

provide input, but YOU are with him the most and you

know him. The school has a bigger priority than your

son. That automatically weighs on all of their evals.

I hope this situation works out OK for you and your

son!

- Adrienne from Boston

__________________________________________________

March 18, 2006

Hi!

" They say since he is not flunking he does not qualify

for special ed. "

Can you get an independent eval.? An eval. by the

school is probably not enough (or by a guy hired by

the school. Who are you going to lean towards? You're

going to " take care " of who is paying you. In this

case, it's the school).

" I am afraid that without a diagnosis, that any

behavior problems will be treated as a discipline

problem. He is already having trouble with bullies

and the teacher has never even noticed. "

I think you've said it yourself. Without a diagnosis,

they WILL treat him as a behavior problem. People

treat my son like this, if they don't know what he

has. They automatically assume that he's " acting like

a brat " - I can see it, and I've talked to them about

it, and found out that they did assume this. When they

find out what he has, they " all of a sudden " become

SOOO patient with him.

Personally, I persisted until I found a diagnosis for

him, because it serves him (without it, they'd treat

him as a behavior problem, and that would be sad!!!).

__________________________________________________

March 18, 2006

Dear Becky,

This is so not true. My son has never flunked anything.

However, his verbal IQ has always been 70 points

higher than his performance IQ. And he has

speech and language issues (pragmatic speech),

which most kids with Asperger's have, and he has

issues with written language. But he has always

gotten As and Bs in school. I did have to go to

due process to get him special ed, starting with

an Independent Educational Evaluation.

Liz

On Mar 18, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Becky Henthorn wrote:

> It doesn't say exactly what the performance IQ or

> Verbal IQ was. Most of the things say he is way above

> his level except in verbal phonemic awareness and

> motor and he is average to slightly below average.

> They say since he is not flunking he does not qualify

> for special ed. When counseling was suggested, the

> school psychologist (hired as a counsultant) thought

> the school was going to provide it, but the guy in

> charge jumped in and said that they would not, and

> suggested a local place that treats drug addicts. I

> never really expected they would do anything for him,

> but I am afraid that without a diagnosis, that any

> behavior problems will be treated as a discipline

> problem. He is already having trouble with bullies and

> the teacher has never even noticed. This school had

> to have summer school last year after an audit of it's

> special ed program, and they still don't care.

> P.S. I am glad to hear that others have shoe tieing

> problems, I have just been buying velcro or slip on.

> Becky H. *Oklahoma

> --- Liz Bohn <lbohn@...> wrote:

>

>> Dear Beccamp,

>>

>> What were his performance iq and his verbal iq? My

>> son's verbal

>> iq was off the charts high, but his performance iq

>> was at least two

>> standard deviations below that. He automatically

>> qualified for

>> special ed. His written language was also

>> problematic. If he qualifies

>> for special ed and needs counseling, they need to

>> provide it

>> during the school day. My son gets counseling during

>> the

>> school day. It's of dubious quality, but he does get

>> it. You

>> might want to get an independent educational

>> evaluation

>> (IEE) at the district's expense, saying you disagree

>> with

>> their evaluation.

>>

>> Liz

>>

>> On Mar 17, 2006, at 2:54 PM, beccamp wrote:

>>

>>> Has anybody had trouble getting the school to

>> admit your child has a

>>> problem in order to avoid having to pay for

>> special ed? My son is 7

>>> and has had problems all his life, he did skip one

>> year of school only

>>> because I insisted they let him take the test, and

>> he passed it.

>>> I requested a full evaluation by the school this

>> year. According to

>>> the school psychologist my parent test said he was

>> mid-range autism

>>> and highly likely to have Asperger. According to

>> the teachers

>>> evaluations he had no problems. This is really

>> strange to me because

>>> everybody else that knows him seems to think he

>> has issues. His IQ

>>> reports showed him way above everyone else, and

>> said he scored over

>>> the age of 23 in memory skills, but he only scored

>> around age 7 for

>>> anything having to do with language or words. I

>> didn't get any

>>> special ed expect for speech therapy which I don't

>> think relates to

>>> the Asperger in his case because his gifted sister

>> had the same

>>> problem. This school has a history of denying

>> special ed, just to save

>>> dollars. I was angry at the meeting but managed

>> say what I thought in

>>> a nice way. I mentioned his not so great social

>> behavior like

>>> touching people in an inappropiate manner(like

>> holding hands with boys

>>> or patting ladies behinds) and they suggested he

>> needed counseling.

>>> Now the teacher who noticed nothing says that he

>> is disruptive, and

>>> wrote a tacky note on his report card. Everything

>> she says about him

>>> is classic Asperger. I am at a loss. We live in a

>> small town more than

>>> 100 miles for any real help! Can anyone shed some

>> light on this? I am

>>> crazy or is this school just blind?

>>

>

March 18, 2006

You need to ask for all the specific subtest scores. That is the only way

to truly see the strengths and weaknesses. Pam

March 19, 2006

Has anybody had trouble getting the school to admit your child has a