Re: HELP friends child may get wrong dx of AS

[Guest guest]

Zachnat2001,

I appreciated your share. I am the father of a 10 year old boy who has some

symptoms of AS, namely lack of eye contact, speech difficulties, and social

problems. He also does not have some symptoms. He listens well and responds

appropriately, his motor skills are good, he is getting striaght A's in school.

He might just be a shy kid. I don't want to put any labels on him but I do want

to be the best dad I can be. If learning about AS means improving our

communication, my understanding of the way he thinks, what motivates his

actions, where he struggles, then I will do whatver I can. I have been

reluctant to have him diagnosed. I will be interested to see the responses to

your post.

Thanks,

Mark

zachnat2001 <zachnat2001@...> wrote:

I have been around this list for a while and have a son with HFA who

is 8. I work with kids on the spectrum in various capacities and like

most of you, probably, I have spent my life buried in autism

literature. I have a friend with a five year old who has some ADD like

symptoms but IMHO is definitely not on the ASD spectrum. Mom feels like

his eye contact and pretend play are limited - but after 15 years of

working with preschoolers and early elementary students, I really feel

like they are well within normal limits. He has no odd behavior,

nothing repetitive,no stimming, no motor skills problems etc. He does

need structure and he is kind of a concrete thinker but not unlike many

very typical 5 year old boys that I know. I will definitley agree he is

impulsive and has a little social trouble, but it is my understanding

that it is very common for ADHD kids to have those symptoms. This

childs conversations are normal, his voice - pitch and fluency are very

normal. Absolutely nothing to indicate AS but a local psych is leaning

in that direction, as mom is reporting the eye contact and pretend play

as abnormal. Anyone else have experience trying to explain what is and

is not AS to friends? I really like this kid - cute as a button - would

not want to see him labeled as something he is not. Would so appreciate

any input. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I don't know.... My 16 yr old had what I called " traits " for autism

but didn't exhibit enough for a diagnosis I thought. He was very

logical about things; lacked common sense it seemed, asked lots of

questions that left me " shaking my head " and thinking " no common

sense?? " ; eye contact really didn't bother me, put it down to self-

consciousness or shyness; extremely intelligent, school seemed

impressed(!) (no, no genius); " read " before he could read, had such a

great memory; yes, motor skill problems; no stimming; no repetitive

behaviors; VERY social towards others, happy, smiling ALL the time;

oh yeah, was a bit literal about things said too; did NOT need

structure as some kids need; never a behavior problem....I could go

on.

But what I wanted to say is that some things stood out much more when

he it middle school and then more by 8th grade. So that's when I

took him to get him diagnosed, 8th grade. Pretty much always a

straight A student, A/B's.

Sorry about my list up there, but it's more that everyone is still

a " person " and is affected differently, to different degrees, etc.

So if they fit the criteria for Aspergers or even ADHD, use what is

needed to get the right supports, services, etc.

I'm thinking if a child gets them (supports) young enough that is

sort of " borderline " or very mild with diagnosis, then later another

eval for the criteria for diagnosis might find they don't fit, so

diagnosis could be dropped! (due to all the progress made)

OK, all very quick thoughts here. And no help to you I guess,

sorry! Just that our school system autism " specialist " was used to

young kids, and young kid with more obvious autism than my son; she

observed him in 8th grade and said she saw " no signs of it " in her

report.

-- In , " zachnat2001 "

<zachnat2001@y...> wrote:

> I have been around this list for a while and have a son with HFA

who

> is 8. I work with kids on the spectrum in various capacities and

like

> most of you, probably, I have spent my life buried in autism

> literature. I have a friend with a five year old who has some ADD

like

> symptoms but IMHO is definitely not on the ASD spectrum. Mom feels

like

> his eye contact and pretend play are limited - but after 15 years

of

> working with preschoolers and early elementary students, I really

feel

> like they are well within normal limits. He has no odd behavior,

> nothing repetitive,no stimming, no motor skills problems etc. He

does

> need structure and he is kind of a concrete thinker but not unlike

many

> very typical 5 year old boys that I know. I will definitley agree

he is

> impulsive and has a little social trouble, but it is my

understanding

> that it is very common for ADHD kids to have those symptoms. This

> childs conversations are normal, his voice - pitch and fluency are

very

> normal. Absolutely nothing to indicate AS but a local psych is

leaning

> in that direction, as mom is reporting the eye contact and pretend

play

> as abnormal. Anyone else have experience trying to explain what is

and

> is not AS to friends? I really like this kid - cute as a button -

would

> not want to see him labeled as something he is not. Would so

appreciate

> any input. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

We are having the same problem with our 14 year old son. The diagnosis,

albeit not classic or severe, at 4 was very apparent. Now at 14, we are seeing

other more prominent behaviors forming diagnoses that I'm not really ready to

label him with (Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder). When we

had evaluated 2 years ago by a neuropsychologist she saw Asperger's

traits but not a clear diagnosis. He was evaluated by a contracted out

psychologist last year through the school department. That evaluator did see

some

signs but thought it was more of an oppositional type disorder which is not a

place I want to go with the school department. This has been very

frustrating trying to figure out what exactly the problems are, but perhaps we

will

never know. Now the professionals we are involved with for therapy etc. are

wondering if there is clearly an Asperger's diagnosis. Makes me want to

scream.

Pam

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/2005 8:48:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

@... writes:

Sorry about my list up there, but it's more that everyone is still

a " person " and is affected differently, to different degrees, etc.

So if they fit the criteria for Aspergers or even ADHD, use what is

needed to get the right supports, services, etc.

This says it all, my son was defiantly borderline, he actually seemed more

ADHD when he was younger at 5-10 yrs of age, by 10 he was socially having

problems whether from ADHD or AS it did not matter, as long as he received some

help. Now in High School he is very much like all the other guys. He has fit

in socially to some extent. IF the AD dx is going to help this young boy get

the help he needs and maybe understand him more I say let him be DX another

thing you could always get the dx taken away at any time.

[Guest guest]

HI I am responding.. and I am not sure why you don't want the diagnoses of

autism spectrum? Here where I am .. if you get a diagnoses.. ( rather than

just ADD) you can get a LOT more services! Just curious not trying to judge

honestly I am just not sure or aware of what that diagnoses may mean..to him

if he isn't on the spectrum. Will it hurt the child? I am in Canada.. if

that helps.. ( It may be different where you are.. )

Chris.. aka strongkindredspirit.. aka ( liquorliz LOL on here as well.. due

to posting problems..)

-- ( ) HELP friends child may get wrong dx of AS

I have been around this list for a while and have a son with HFA who

is 8. I work with kids on the spectrum in various capacities and like

most of you, probably, I have spent my life buried in autism

literature. I have a friend with a five year old who has some ADD like

symptoms but IMHO is definitely not on the ASD spectrum. Mom feels like

his eye contact and pretend play are limited - but after 15 years of

working with preschoolers and early elementary students, I really feel

like they are well within normal limits. He has no odd behavior,

nothing repetitive,no stimming, no motor skills problems etc. He does

need structure and he is kind of a concrete thinker but not unlike many

very typical 5 year old boys that I know. I will definitley agree he is

impulsive and has a little social trouble, but it is my understanding

that it is very common for ADHD kids to have those symptoms. This

childs conversations are normal, his voice - pitch and fluency are very

normal. Absolutely nothing to indicate AS but a local psych is leaning

in that direction, as mom is reporting the eye contact and pretend play

as abnormal. Anyone else have experience trying to explain what is and

is not AS to friends? I really like this kid - cute as a button - would

not want to see him labeled as something he is not. Would so appreciate

any input. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

On Jun 2, 2005, at 1:00 AM, wrote:

> This

> childs conversations are normal, his voice - pitch and fluency are very

> normal. Absolutely nothing to indicate AS but a local psych is leaning

> in that direction, as mom is reporting the eye contact and pretend play

> as abnormal. Anyone else have experience trying to explain what is and

> is not AS to friends? I really like this kid - cute as a button - would

> not want to see him labeled as something he is not. Would so appreciate

> any input. Thanks.

>

**To you, he seems normal. But how much time do you actually spend

with him? How is he at home? How are his social skills? His coping

skills? Some kids are quite high-functioning, but set up a situation

they can't control, or something unexpected and they can't cope. My

son would appear in many ways to be NT. But he isn't. And when you

activate his fight/flight by just doing something he doesn't want, you

really see the autism. He runs from the class, hides under desks,

refuses to comply, just can't cope. Yet, in the best of all worlds, he

looks very normal. And last year in Kindergarten, he seemed much more

so. The only things we saw in him was a lack of boundaries with adults

(he would sit in anyone's lap in the classroom) and some perseverations

that were cute, like Indiana . It was in the first grade that

we first started seeing the major behaviors. Before that, we didn't

really see them. But as my son gets older, the behaviors increase, as

does the amount of things that cause them. So it might be that the

mother's gut is right on this one. Everyone first said, when I

requested the evaluation on my son last year, that they would do it,

but he " seemed " fine. These are the same people who are now

recommending SDC for my son. A lot can change in a year. From 5- 6.5

was a huge change in my son. I say if the mother wants the child

evaluated, she needs to go for it, and you can help your friend by

being supportive.

Libby Lou...how 'bout you?

with my ABC's and 1,2,3's:

Middle J, 6, AS/HFA , anxiety

Big J 10, GAD, BP, OCD

Small Fry J as NT as it gets, for now

dh+ AS x fixated on computers= $$

" Behaviorism is as American as rewarding children with apple pie. 

We’re a busy people, with fortunes to make and lands to conquer.  We

don’t have time for theories or complications:  Just give us techniques

that work. ... if relying on bribes and threats succeeds in making

children obey, then there’s no need to ask, “But for how long does it

work?  And at what cost?”- Alfie Kohn

[Guest guest]

I am concerned about the wrong dx partly because mom sees her son as

much more " disordered " than he is, really affecting their

relationship. I should have mentioned that my issue is, in part, that

mom went through an extrememly rigid parenting course that basically

taught that if parents do A,B and C child will be perfectly behaved.

The expectations at home seem to be that kid should never make

excessive noise, should always have perfect eye contact, manners,

behavior etc and poor kid is being asked to understand more than a

typical 5 year old should ever be asked to understand. I think he is

seen as disordered because he isn't perfect, frankly. Many of the

things she complains about are very, very normal 5 year old behavior.

I dont think they plan to use the ps system, not sure what services

they are seeking. I am not sure about the dx being taken away, to me

it seems to be becoming like bipolar - once you are dxed, it follows

you everywhere you go. It also confuses the general public when they

see a child with NO difinitive features of AS or HFA being called AS

or HFA. I think they are confused enough about the disorder as it

stands.

As a parent, if HFA was not the appropriate label, I would not want

my own son to have it. AS needs different treatment than many other

disorders, if they are treating AS and AS is not what he has - it is

only delaying the treatment he does need. I do know he would benefit

some from the structure, but it would not be giving him the best of

services. I appreciate everyones input, I have decided there really

isn't anything I can do as far as his dx goes anyway.

> HI I am responding.. and I am not sure why you don't want the

diagnoses of

> autism spectrum? Here where I am .. if you get a diagnoses.. (

rather than

> just ADD) you can get a LOT more services! Just curious not trying

to judge

> honestly I am just not sure or aware of what that diagnoses may

mean..to him

> if he isn't on the spectrum. Will it hurt the child? I am in

Canada.. if

> that helps.. ( It may be different where you are.. )

> Chris.. aka strongkindredspirit.. aka ( liquorliz LOL on here as

well.. due

> to posting problems..)

>

> -- ( ) HELP friends child may get wrong dx of

AS

>

> I have been around this list for a while and have a son with HFA

who

> is 8. I work with kids on the spectrum in various capacities and

like

> most of you, probably, I have spent my life buried in autism

> literature. I have a friend with a five year old who has some ADD

like

> symptoms but IMHO is definitely not on the ASD spectrum. Mom feels

like

> his eye contact and pretend play are limited - but after 15 years of

> working with preschoolers and early elementary students, I really

feel

> like they are well within normal limits. He has no odd behavior,

> nothing repetitive,no stimming, no motor skills problems etc. He

does

> need structure and he is kind of a concrete thinker but not unlike

many

> very typical 5 year old boys that I know. I will definitley agree

he is

> impulsive and has a little social trouble, but it is my

understanding

> that it is very common for ADHD kids to have those symptoms. This

> childs conversations are normal, his voice - pitch and fluency are

very

> normal. Absolutely nothing to indicate AS but a local psych is

leaning

> in that direction, as mom is reporting the eye contact and pretend

play

> as abnormal. Anyone else have experience trying to explain what is

and

> is not AS to friends? I really like this kid - cute as a button -

would

> not want to see him labeled as something he is not. Would so

appreciate

> any input. Thanks.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

I am in no way discouraging my friend from having her child

evaluated. I spend a significant amount of time with this child in

many different settings. I geuss I did a really poor job of

communicating in my first post - sorry. I have a HFA child, I work

with many. I should have taken into consideration that so many people

would know what it is like to be told your child does not have AS or

HFA when you know they do, I should have been more clear that this

was not my intent. I STILL deal with that every day with my own

child. I get comments ALL the time about how my son is just smart -

" looks fine to me " etc etc. I do not want to do that to this mom. If

you could look at my post previous to this one it might help explain

my concerns more fully. Thank so much for your reply..

-- In , LibbyLou <NomDePlumeOf3@a...>

wrote:

>

> On Jun 2, 2005, at 1:00 AM, wrote:

>

> > This

> > childs conversations are normal, his voice - pitch and fluency

are very

> > normal. Absolutely nothing to indicate AS but a local psych is

leaning

> > in that direction, as mom is reporting the eye contact and

pretend play

> > as abnormal. Anyone else have experience trying to explain what

is and

> > is not AS to friends? I really like this kid - cute as a button -

would

> > not want to see him labeled as something he is not. Would so

appreciate

> > any input. Thanks.

> >

>

> **To you, he seems normal. But how much time do you actually spend

> with him? How is he at home? How are his social skills? His

coping

> skills? Some kids are quite high-functioning, but set up a

situation

> they can't control, or something unexpected and they can't cope.

My

> son would appear in many ways to be NT. But he isn't. And when

you

> activate his fight/flight by just doing something he doesn't want,

you

> really see the autism. He runs from the class, hides under desks,

> refuses to comply, just can't cope. Yet, in the best of all

worlds, he

> looks very normal. And last year in Kindergarten, he seemed much

more

> so. The only things we saw in him was a lack of boundaries with

adults

> (he would sit in anyone's lap in the classroom) and some

perseverations

> that were cute, like Indiana . It was in the first grade

that

> we first started seeing the major behaviors. Before that, we

didn't

> really see them. But as my son gets older, the behaviors increase,

as

> does the amount of things that cause them. So it might be that the

> mother's gut is right on this one. Everyone first said, when I

> requested the evaluation on my son last year, that they would do

it,

> but he " seemed " fine. These are the same people who are now

> recommending SDC for my son. A lot can change in a year. From 5-

6.5

> was a huge change in my son. I say if the mother wants the child

> evaluated, she needs to go for it, and you can help your friend by

> being supportive.

>

>

>

> Libby Lou...how 'bout you?

> with my ABC's and 1,2,3's:

> Middle J, 6, AS/HFA , anxiety

> Big J 10, GAD, BP, OCD

> Small Fry J as NT as it gets, for now

> dh+ AS x fixated on computers= $$

>

> " Behaviorism is as American as rewarding children with apple pie. 

> We're a busy people, with fortunes to make and lands to conquer. 

We

> don't have time for theories or complications:  Just give us

techniques

> that work. ... if relying on bribes and threats succeeds in making

> children obey, then there's no need to ask, " But for how long does

it

> work?  And at what cost? " - Alfie Kohn

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

zachnat2001 <zachnat2001@...> wrote:

I am concerned about the wrong dx partly because mom sees her son as

much more " disordered " than he is, really affecting their

relationship. I should have mentioned that my issue is, in part, that

mom went through an extrememly rigid parenting course that basically

taught that if parents do A,B and C child will be perfectly behaved.

The expectations at home seem to be that kid should never make

excessive noise, should always have perfect eye contact, manners,

behavior etc and poor kid is being asked to understand more than a

typical 5 year old should ever be asked to understand. I think he is

seen as disordered because he isn't perfect, frankly. Many of the

things she complains about are very, very normal 5 year old behavior.

I dont think they plan to use the ps system, not sure what services

they are seeking. I am not sure about the dx being taken away, to me

it seems to be becoming like bipolar - once you are dxed, it follows

you everywhere you go. It also confuses the general public when they

see a child with NO difinitive features of AS or HFA being called AS

or HFA. I think they are confused enough about the disorder as it

stands.

As a parent, if HFA was not the appropriate label, I would not want

my own son to have it. AS needs different treatment than many other

disorders, if they are treating AS and AS is not what he has - it is

only delaying the treatment he does need. I do know he would benefit

some from the structure, but it would not be giving him the best of

services. I appreciate everyones input, I have decided there really

isn't anything I can do as far as his dx goes anyway.

There probably isn't anything you can do except encourage your friend to get a

proper evaluation done. I understand your concerns also. I think there are so

many being dx'd with this, almost like candy. Kid has problems making friends?

It's AS. Every " nerdy " type is getting dx'd with it too, as you can see with

poor Bill Gaites. Even Jefferson is not left untouched by our zeal to dx

everyone who was a little odd as a child or who had a few quirks " too many. "

Countless people on the net are self-dx'ing themselves with AS because their

children have it and they had similar quirks growing up - so that means they

have it too!

Argh! It is enough to make a person crazy. Being " severe " no longer means

" severe " - just " problematic. " And I think that is where the larger problem

with this situation is. It also does depend a lot on the home life. We just

have to pray that people who are charged with dx'ing disorder such as AS are

doing the best that they can do. And just try to be there for your friend

because it may turn out that the child does have problems of some sort.

Roxanna ô¿ô

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm. Rigidly applying 'rules' she learned in a parenting class. AS does

cluster in families sometimes. Maybe the mom is seeing a little of herself

in the son?

Kathy J.

zachnat2001 <zachnat2001@...> wrote:

I am concerned about the wrong dx partly because mom sees her son as

much more " disordered " than he is, really affecting their

relationship. I should have mentioned that my issue is, in part, that

mom went through an extrememly rigid parenting course that basically

taught that if parents do A,B and C child will be perfectly behaved.

The expectations at home seem to be that kid should never make

excessive noise, should always have perfect eye contact, manners,

behavior etc and poor kid is being asked to understand more than a

typical 5 year old should ever be asked to understand. I think he is

seen as disordered because he isn't perfect, frankly. Many of the

things she complains about are very, very normal 5 year old behavior.

I dont think they plan to use the ps system, not sure what services

they are seeking. I am not sure about the dx being taken away, to me

it seems to be becoming like bipolar - once you are dxed, it follows

you everywhere you go. It also confuses the general public when they

see a child with NO difinitive features of AS or HFA being called AS

or HFA. I think they are confused enough about the disorder as it

stands.

As a parent, if HFA was not the appropriate label, I would not want

my own son to have it. AS needs different treatment than many other

disorders, if they are treating AS and AS is not what he has - it is

only delaying the treatment he does need. I do know he would benefit

some from the structure, but it would not be giving him the best of

services. I appreciate everyones input, I have decided there really

isn't anything I can do as far as his dx goes anyway.

[Guest guest]

Roxanna- Thank you SO much for your input, nice to know others see

this self diagnosis and over diagnosis thing getting out of hand. I

was really encouraged by your note - thanks! -

> There probably isn't anything you can do except encourage your

friend to get a proper evaluation done. I understand your concerns

also. I think there are so many being dx'd with this, almost like

candy. Kid has problems making friends? It's AS. Every " nerdy "

type is getting dx'd with it too, as you can see with poor Bill

Gaites. Even Jefferson is not left untouched by our zeal to

dx everyone who was a little odd as a child or who had a few

quirks " too many. " Countless people on the net are self-dx'ing

themselves with AS because their children have it and they had

similar quirks growing up - so that means they have it too!

>

> Argh! It is enough to make a person crazy. Being " severe " no

longer means " severe " - just " problematic. " And I think that is

where the larger problem with this situation is. It also does depend

a lot on the home life. We just have to pray that people who are

charged with dx'ing disorder such as AS are doing the best that they

can do. And just try to be there for your friend because it may turn

out that the child does have problems of some sort.

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna ô¿ô

> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>