Re: pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help! / was Re: Hi, new here

[Guest guest]

Aww, , I feel your pain -- hugs to you, it's no picnic and people

just don't get it.

I am tempted to buy one of the shirts for events where I know people

will stare if he starts to act out. I too tire of people thinking 'he

looks fine to me' or 'that's normal behavior,' when they don't realize

that while that one thing itself may be normal behavior, if he does it

50x a day, it's not, or he carries it to extremes so a normal behavior

is no longer 'normal.' It's frustrating. But, as my neuro has told me

more than once, we have to ignore those people -- they are ignorant and

won't understand until they're in the same boat, and while I'd not wish

it on anyone, there are times where I feel so blessed that my son is so

unique and clever and think how maybe we're the abnormal ones, if that

makes sense. He does what he wants, dances in the middle of the street,

is honest, etc., without worrying what others think, and the rest of us

walk around worried about it.

My thoughts are with you...

Donna

wrote:

>

> I wish there was a Public service Announcement about Autism.

>

> A voice over says: The many faces of autism aren't what you think.

>

> And then show a variety of people with autism doing whatever it is

> they do. Some who avoid eye contact and some who " look normal " and

> everything in between.

>

> You can't tell if someone has autism and I'm sick of my son being

> misunderstood and my family getting weird looks about it.

>

> Cafepress has a tshirt that reads: I'm not spoiled or a brat or rude.

> I have autism.

>

> They also carry one that reads: I have autism. What's your excuse?

>

> Maybe I'll buy both. I want to scream at everyone about it, " STOP

> JUDGING!!!!! "

>

> Ok, I'm all crying now. It's been a rough couple of weeks.

>

[Guest guest]

I often think the same thing . There needs to be a community awareness

campaign about the many degrees of autism. People either have this idea that

autism means a person like rain man or they think of classic autism. Our poor

misunderstood kids have a hard enough time in society without the ignorance of

onlookers.

Beck

( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help! /

was Re: Hi, new here

Thanks for the welcome, everyone. I think I ended up posting

another intro, too, because this one didn't come through for a week or

more. Odd. LOL!

Anyway, school starts in 2.5 weeks and I'm NERVOUS! We'll walk Max to

school each morning (love living close by!) and walk home each

afternoon. I hope he does well in school. I'll have to talk to his

teacher & the principal about evaluation. We'll see what happens. He's

a good boy, but I'll tell ya, the interaction w/ friends who don't

know we're in the process of eval hasn't been easy. I tend to just

blurt it out so that they know and won't hold his behavior against

him. I know some of our acquaintances htink he's a brat and I'm

looney, but that's why they're acquaintances and not friends!

Currently we're dealing w/ a boy who likes to surprise us, but he does

so by YELLING in our ears or pinching our legs! Any help n that? I

can't figur eout how to make him stop!

Also, when he fights discipline (time out) he FIGHTS w/ kicking and

punching and I get hurt. What do I do? Everything I read says to

continue teaching them as you would an NT kid. Don't let unacceptable

behavior go, in other words. But HOW do I make him quit hitting and

kicking me? It's not EVERY time, but it's definitely often neough that

I get worn out form it and any onlookers who might be nearby htink

he's a brat or somehting. If he's not avoiding eye contact or staring

into space or focused on a train then he isn't autistic. You know?

I wish there was a Public service Announcement about Autism.

A voice over says: The many faces of autism aren't what you think.

And then show a variety of people with autism doing whatever it is

they do. Some who avoid eye contact and some who " look normal " and

everything in between.

You can't tell if someone has autism and I'm sick of my son being

misunderstood and my family getting weird looks about it.

Cafepress has a tshirt that reads: I'm not spoiled or a brat or rude.

I have autism.

They also carry one that reads: I have autism. What's your excuse?

Maybe I'll buy both. I want to scream at everyone about it, " STOP

JUDGING!!!!! "

Ok, I'm all crying now. It's been a rough couple of weeks.

~

>

> Welcome, ...this is a wonderful place for information and

> encouragement---in my opinion ;-) Looking forward to getting to

know you and your family

> better...

> Blessings,

> Gail

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't necessarily agree that you would treat a child with autism " the same " as

a typical child. There is a lot more work involved, IMO. For behaviors, in

general, you need to find out the purpose of the behavior and then try teaching

a behavior that will take the place of the behavior you don't like. So if he is

fighting you, it could be he doesn't want to get a time out (just guessing, but

probably a good guess) and so he fights against it. I would start teaching him

the " time out rules " and when he is in a good mood and not upset, teach him how

it will be when he gets in trouble. " When you smack your sister, you will be

sent to time out. You will sit on this chair for 3 minutes. Then if you have

behaved, you will apologize to sister and be allowed to leave the time out

chair. " Practice it. Write the list down (or use pictures if he can't read.)

Another thing is that some kids can't follow the rules when they are screaming

and angry no matter how hard you practice. My older ds would throw the time out

chair at me but would not sit in it. And like you, I was bruised from the

battle. I learned to drag him to his room and shut the door instead of trying

to use one chair. So he had a " time out room " really. But it was easier for me

to implement.

My younger ds, he was taught before he started having " meltdowns " to " learn self

control. " He would practice his " self control " on a regular basis at school by

sitting on his hands and counting to ten. It was part of his program. It got

so that when he was starting to yell, the teacher would just have to say, " Use

your self control " and he knew he had to stop screaming or he would have to sit

on his hands and count. I don't know how that worked so well. I can't imagine

that working with my older ds.

But at any rate, if he is doing something - it could be he doesn't know a better

way to ask for something or a better way to engage your interest or whatever it

is he is wanting. Once you figure out why he's doing it, you can teach him

better behaviors or more appropriate ones.

Roxanna

( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help! /

was Re: Hi, new here

Thanks for the welcome, everyone. I think I ended up posting

another intro, too, because this one didn't come through for a week or

more. Odd. LOL!

Anyway, school starts in 2.5 weeks and I'm NERVOUS! We'll walk Max to

school each morning (love living close by!) and walk home each

afternoon. I hope he does well in school. I'll have to talk to his

teacher & the principal about evaluation. We'll see what happens. He's

a good boy, but I'll tell ya, the interaction w/ friends who don't

know we're in the process of eval hasn't been easy. I tend to just

blurt it out so that they know and won't hold his behavior against

him. I know some of our acquaintances htink he's a brat and I'm

looney, but that's why they're acquaintances and not friends!

Currently we're dealing w/ a boy who likes to surprise us, but he does

so by YELLING in our ears or pinching our legs! Any help n that? I

can't figur eout how to make him stop!

Also, when he fights discipline (time out) he FIGHTS w/ kicking and

punching and I get hurt. What do I do? Everything I read says to

continue teaching them as you would an NT kid. Don't let unacceptable

behavior go, in other words. But HOW do I make him quit hitting and

kicking me? It's not EVERY time, but it's definitely often neough that

I get worn out form it and any onlookers who might be nearby htink

he's a brat or somehting. If he's not avoiding eye contact or staring

into space or focused on a train then he isn't autistic. You know?

I wish there was a Public service Announcement about Autism.

A voice over says: The many faces of autism aren't what you think.

And then show a variety of people with autism doing whatever it is

they do. Some who avoid eye contact and some who " look normal " and

everything in between.

You can't tell if someone has autism and I'm sick of my son being

misunderstood and my family getting weird looks about it.

Cafepress has a tshirt that reads: I'm not spoiled or a brat or rude.

I have autism.

They also carry one that reads: I have autism. What's your excuse?

Maybe I'll buy both. I want to scream at everyone about it, " STOP

JUDGING!!!!! "

Ok, I'm all crying now. It's been a rough couple of weeks.

~

.

[Guest guest]

On Aug 4, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Roxanna wrote:

>

> Another thing is that some kids can't follow the rules when they

> are screaming and angry no matter how hard you practice. My older

> ds would throw the time out chair at me but would not sit in it.

> And like you, I was bruised from the battle. I learned to drag him

> to his room and shut the door instead of trying to use one chair.

> So he had a " time out room " really. But it was easier for me to

> implement.

Ah, you should read my parents' dissenting decision to our

manifestation determination!! They were saying " Well, at the

beginning of the year, was he listening when you told the class that

there is a rule against pushing at this school? " Well, ya. But he

was taking a break in his Cool Zone after his classroom teacher had

said something rude to him, then yelled at him to go to the Cool

Zone. Another teacher came in and said " I can tell you're not asleep,

your eyes are moving. " He pushed her. Words were said, but then

they went on with the spelling test, as if that was important. And

kept going even though he threw the pencil, threw the paper, cried,

yelled, etc. Which led to a worse offense. Rational thought processes

had been suspended at this point. From the classroom teacher, I got

(paraphrased here) " well, I am only human, I have emotions, of course

I was frustrated. " My kid is supposed to have control of his

emotions and actions, though. He's human, too. He's 10.

And he has a neurological disorder.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

I never could understand why there is an urge to push a child already having

trouble gaining control of himself. Why would they provide a " cool down " place

but not let him COOL DOWN? I imagine you wanted to strangle a few people

listening to that.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help!

/ was Re: Hi, new here

On Aug 4, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Roxanna wrote:

>

> Another thing is that some kids can't follow the rules when they

> are screaming and angry no matter how hard you practice. My older

> ds would throw the time out chair at me but would not sit in it.

> And like you, I was bruised from the battle. I learned to drag him

> to his room and shut the door instead of trying to use one chair.

> So he had a " time out room " really. But it was easier for me to

> implement.

Ah, you should read my parents' dissenting decision to our

manifestation determination!! They were saying " Well, at the

beginning of the year, was he listening when you told the class that

there is a rule against pushing at this school? " Well, ya. But he

was taking a break in his Cool Zone after his classroom teacher had

said something rude to him, then yelled at him to go to the Cool

Zone. Another teacher came in and said " I can tell you're not asleep,

your eyes are moving. " He pushed her. Words were said, but then

they went on with the spelling test, as if that was important. And

kept going even though he threw the pencil, threw the paper, cried,

yelled, etc. Which led to a worse offense. Rational thought processes

had been suspended at this point. From the classroom teacher, I got

(paraphrased here) " well, I am only human, I have emotions, of course

I was frustrated. " My kid is supposed to have control of his

emotions and actions, though. He's human, too. He's 10.

And he has a neurological disorder.

Jackie

.

[Guest guest]

I just made another connection, which I just take for granted.

ph hates being held under his arms (in his pits). After his two

pushing things

that made them determined to get him to office, they got him into a

couple different holds. And he fought it. Hmmm. Aside from the fact

he was definitely overwhelmed at that point, I bet you anything the

holds involved putting their arms in his armpits. He hates that even

when he's in a good

mood. He dug his fingernails into his teacher's hands in an escape

attempt, and drew blood. We didn't bring that up much at our

meeting since that's not

why he was suspended.

The plan we put together at the end of the year states that noone is

to enter the Cool Zone unless he is in imminent danger of hurting

himself.

They are supposed to wait outside until he is ready to come out.

They are to talk outside the Cool Zone, and if it gets overwhelming

for him again,

he can go back into the Cool Zone. I just requested the official

district policy on physical contact from the principal. I need to

know what they allow

as far as positive gestures, because some districts are really strict

about even pats on the back and such. But also what holds and under

what circumstances.

If they all involve grabbing him under the arms, he is going to

fiercely fight it.

Jackie

On Aug 4, 2006, at 6:22 PM, Roxanna wrote:

> I never could understand why there is an urge to push a child

> already having trouble gaining control of himself. Why would they

> provide a " cool down " place but not let him COOL DOWN? I imagine

> you wanted to strangle a few people listening to that.

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Also see if they are trained in appropriate holding techniques. People can get

hurt and even killed when they are being held down inappropriately. So you

might want to see if anyone is trained to do this before they all sit on him. A

boy here had his hand broken when the teacher dragged him down to the office.

ugh, can you imagine? Another thing is to put this information in a Behavior

plan and attach it to the IEP. Make sure it's all written down what they can

and cannot do.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help!

/ was Re: Hi, new here

I just made another connection, which I just take for granted.

ph hates being held under his arms (in his pits). After his two

pushing things

that made them determined to get him to office, they got him into a

couple different holds. And he fought it. Hmmm. Aside from the fact

he was definitely overwhelmed at that point, I bet you anything the

holds involved putting their arms in his armpits. He hates that even

when he's in a good

mood. He dug his fingernails into his teacher's hands in an escape

attempt, and drew blood. We didn't bring that up much at our

meeting since that's not

why he was suspended.

The plan we put together at the end of the year states that noone is

to enter the Cool Zone unless he is in imminent danger of hurting

himself.

They are supposed to wait outside until he is ready to come out.

They are to talk outside the Cool Zone, and if it gets overwhelming

for him again,

he can go back into the Cool Zone. I just requested the official

district policy on physical contact from the principal. I need to

know what they allow

as far as positive gestures, because some districts are really strict

about even pats on the back and such. But also what holds and under

what circumstances.

If they all involve grabbing him under the arms, he is going to

fiercely fight it.

Jackie

On Aug 4, 2006, at 6:22 PM, Roxanna wrote:

> I never could understand why there is an urge to push a child

> already having trouble gaining control of himself. Why would they

> provide a " cool down " place but not let him COOL DOWN? I imagine

> you wanted to strangle a few people listening to that.

>

> Roxanna

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 8/3/2006

[Guest guest]

You better believe it! I took a big risk and emailed the teacher

another question tonight. In March, I asked him whether they

had told him much about my son or AS or if this was a baptism by

fire. He said baptism. I requested the inservice stuff and

thought it was pretty good. But I don't know if that is what he

received or not. And as I went through it again, it's sorta lofty

stuff and covers things that aren't necessarily Asperger level,

KWIM? It makes sense to me because I've been living it for a decade.

But for the uninitiated... Of course, every child is different,

too. So I asked him if the material he got (whatever that was) was

too technical, too general,

not enough or if my son was just so over the top nothing could have

prepared him. I told him all of the above and that I was

prepping some stuff for this upcoming year. But I said I completely

understand if he didn't want to discuss it. :-) I don't think

he'll answer (it was a loooong year), but it's worth a try.

Jackie

On Aug 4, 2006, at 7:24 PM, Roxanna wrote:

> Also see if they are trained in appropriate holding techniques.

> Another thing is to put this information in a Behavior plan and

> attach it to the IEP. Make sure it's all written down what they

> can and cannot do.

[Guest guest]

So they did an inservice? Maybe they could do " ongoing " inservicing and not

just one teacher but teachers that will be coming up for him as well. That

might help. Sometimes just " one " inservice is just not going to get it. Then

behaviors happen and they want to know what to do, never connecting the dots

between the information and the behaviors.

One year things were going terribly for my older ds (5th grade!) and we did at

least get inservicing once a month. But of course, that didn't help since the

teachers didn't really pay attention or apply anything. I remember a

parent/teacher conference where the teacher did not even bother to say a nice

thing about my kid before she began, " He spins constantly. He spins his

pencils, his ruler, he is obsessive and compulsive... " and on she went. My dh

started yelling, " Really? Do ya think he might be autistic? " It was so awful

but of course, now, I can laugh. But then, ay-yi-yi!!

Roxanna

Re: ( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help!

/ was Re: Hi, new here

You better believe it! I took a big risk and emailed the teacher

another question tonight. In March, I asked him whether they

had told him much about my son or AS or if this was a baptism by

fire. He said baptism. I requested the inservice stuff and

thought it was pretty good. But I don't know if that is what he

received or not. And as I went through it again, it's sorta lofty

stuff and covers things that aren't necessarily Asperger level,

KWIM? It makes sense to me because I've been living it for a decade.

But for the uninitiated... Of course, every child is different,

too. So I asked him if the material he got (whatever that was) was

too technical, too general,

not enough or if my son was just so over the top nothing could have

prepared him. I told him all of the above and that I was

prepping some stuff for this upcoming year. But I said I completely

understand if he didn't want to discuss it. :-) I don't think

he'll answer (it was a loooong year), but it's worth a try.

Jackie

On Aug 4, 2006, at 7:24 PM, Roxanna wrote:

> Also see if they are trained in appropriate holding techniques.

> Another thing is to put this information in a Behavior plan and

> attach it to the IEP. Make sure it's all written down what they

> can and cannot do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 8/3/2006

[Guest guest]

I listened to their phrasing very carefully. When they gave me the

inservice material, they said it was for his fifth grade teacher.

Not " this is what we always use. "

But I could just be being anal. LOL At Back to School night,

because of the teacher's little presentation, I went and asked him if

someone had clued him

in on ph's special needs. He said yes, he's been working with

the resource gal and ph's very bright. That's not what I was

asking.

It could be that he didn't really want to talk at length with anyone

standing around, or could mean he didn't really have much beyond the

IEP.

And this was a year of whole new levels of autistic behavior.

Thinking he had a good base on knowledge, I just gave him some

general info

that I thought would synthesize with the base knowledge. Now I am

thinking he didn't have the base I assumed, so he thought I was just

trying to get him to change the whole way he runs his classroom. Not

a good start. But I could be wrong. There is a lot more going on,

which I won't go into again.

When we were all in a good mood one day right before school ended, I

brought in my dissenting opinion and came to sign the IEP. I joked to

the resource gal that maybe this year we could get away with 1 case

conference instead of 4...how I love them all, but (we can't spend

this much

time together). She said they felt the same way about me. I said

" we'll just keeping adding things until it works. " Now I am thinking

a monthly

meeting might not be so bad. If anything starts going downhill, I

will be at that school observing...even autistic children don't go

ballistic without a reason.

Jackie

On Aug 4, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Roxanna wrote:

> So they did an inservice? Maybe they could do " ongoing "

> inservicing and not just one teacher but teachers that will be

> coming up for him as well.

[Guest guest]

Monthly meetings are not bad in some respects. Yes, you do have to go in every

month and smile at everyone so that's the bad part. <g> For me, it helped in

many ways though. They started revealing problems he was having that I never

got to hear about in just one meeting where they come up with two nice things to

say and that's it. lol. So they started feeling more comfortable and started

talking more. I got a more accurate picture of them and my ds. I could also

start handing out little " factoids " . That way you don't have to overwhelm them

with all sorts of information at one time. You can spread it out and more

chance that they will read it. OR, alternately you can read it at the meeting

if you don't think they will actually read it.

They will also tell you more details and you have a chance to educate them as to

why he did this or that. This helps save the entire year where they decide he's

just being a brat and needs to learn some responsibility. With each successful

problem, they let it confirm their " theory. " This way, you can stop that theory

or at least pause it.

I did monthly meetings with my younger ds for several years as well because we

ran an ABA program. That helped me see where he was at exactly plus I could get

the data monthly. You can do this if there is a behavior problem - make up a

form for them to take data on - how often does he do it? what each person did

in response and the effect it had. You can figure things out that way or at

least show the need for an aide as well.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help!

/ was Re: Hi, new here

I listened to their phrasing very carefully. When they gave me the

inservice material, they said it was for his fifth grade teacher.

Not " this is what we always use. "

But I could just be being anal. LOL At Back to School night,

because of the teacher's little presentation, I went and asked him if

someone had clued him

in on ph's special needs. He said yes, he's been working with

the resource gal and ph's very bright. That's not what I was

asking.

It could be that he didn't really want to talk at length with anyone

standing around, or could mean he didn't really have much beyond the

IEP.

And this was a year of whole new levels of autistic behavior.

Thinking he had a good base on knowledge, I just gave him some

general info

that I thought would synthesize with the base knowledge. Now I am

thinking he didn't have the base I assumed, so he thought I was just

trying to get him to change the whole way he runs his classroom. Not

a good start. But I could be wrong. There is a lot more going on,

which I won't go into again.

When we were all in a good mood one day right before school ended, I

brought in my dissenting opinion and came to sign the IEP. I joked to

the resource gal that maybe this year we could get away with 1 case

conference instead of 4...how I love them all, but (we can't spend

this much

time together). She said they felt the same way about me. I said

" we'll just keeping adding things until it works. " Now I am thinking

a monthly

meeting might not be so bad. If anything starts going downhill, I

will be at that school observing...even autistic children don't go

ballistic without a reason.

Jackie

On Aug 4, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Roxanna wrote:

> So they did an inservice? Maybe they could do " ongoing "

> inservicing and not just one teacher but teachers that will be

> coming up for him as well.

.

[Guest guest]

I guess, what I meant is, do I need to change the way I treat him, and I have,

of course since answered my own question. I find myself with more patience and

understanding towards him. I know you can understand this is all very new to

me and although some ignorant people would tell me something is wrong with ,

(or better yet they would discuss him behind my back for me to find out later).

I know you didn't ask for all of this, but I would like to talk about the

dx....at the eval. the Dr. said some positive things, however he kept saying

Aspergers is nothing but a little nerdy behaviour when he is a teenager...so,

when I got my dx letter...his official dx is ADHD, Dysgraphia and some kind of

Language problem. Possible Asperger Syndrom or some autistic

tendancies.....that will require futher eval. I was told to put him in regular

school, (he is 5 and going into kindergarden), but to talk to his teachers. I

tried, but no one would talk to me...we don't start school until 9/5..and I do

know they don't have any Autistic children in the school...so my anxiety

increases

daily.....he does have upcoming appts with an OT and a ST....so there is a

little hope, unfortunately it took so long to get all these appts....I may have

to move him after school starts...and my ds doesn't like change at all....I

really think he has AS, after doing tons of research and reading and writing

posts on this website..but why did the Dr. who is a Pediatric Development Dr.

make the AS seem so unimportant??? It really scares me..that my ds is not going

to get the proper education because everyone is being blind or blase about the

AS...any advice would be appreciated.....

Signed, very anxious mom of 5, adhd, dysgraphia and possible AS...

KIm

Roxanna <madideas@...> wrote:

Well, I am waaaaay behind in reading emails but how do you know you

have treated him " the same? "

Roxanna

( ) pinching, yelling, fighting discipline- help! / was

Re: Hi, new here

Thanks for the welcome, everyone. I think I ended up posting

another intro, too, because this one didn't come through for a week or

more. Odd. LOL!

Anyway, school starts in 2.5 weeks and I'm NERVOUS! We'll walk Max to

school each morning (love living close by!) and walk home each

afternoon. I hope he does well in school. I'll have to talk to his

teacher & the principal about evaluation. We'll see what happens. He's

a good boy, but I'll tell ya, the interaction w/ friends who don't

know we're in the process of eval hasn't been easy. I tend to just

blurt it out so that they know and won't hold his behavior against

him. I know some of our acquaintances htink he's a brat and I'm

looney, but that's why they're acquaintances and not friends!

Currently we're dealing w/ a boy who likes to surprise us, but he does

so by YELLING in our ears or pinching our legs! Any help n that? I

can't figur eout how to make him stop!

Also, when he fights discipline (time out) he FIGHTS w/ kicking and

punching and I get hurt. What do I do? Everything I read says to

continue teaching them as you would an NT kid. Don't let unacceptable

behavior go, in other words. But HOW do I make him quit hitting and

kicking me? It's not EVERY time, but it's definitely often neough that

I get worn out form it and any onlookers who might be nearby htink

he's a brat or somehting. If he's not avoiding eye contact or staring

into space or focused on a train then he isn't autistic. You know?

I wish there was a Public service Announcement about Autism.

A voice over says: The many faces of autism aren't what you think.

And then show a variety of people with autism doing whatever it is

they do. Some who avoid eye contact and some who " look normal " and

everything in between.

You can't tell if someone has autism and I'm sick of my son being

misunderstood and my family getting weird looks about it.

Cafepress has a tshirt that reads: I'm not spoiled or a brat or rude.

I have autism.

They also carry one that reads: I have autism. What's your excuse?

Maybe I'll buy both. I want to scream at everyone about it, " STOP

JUDGING!!!!! "

Ok, I'm all crying now. It's been a rough couple of weeks.

~

..