Re: frustration overload and bizarre response

[Guest guest]

Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to me. She said some

children do that to get attention, it's negative attention, but its still

attention.

I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your daughter was testing

you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you do care and she got

ready. even made the school bus dressed and all. hummm

Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish we (this group)

could all get together, go out and have a latte.

meira-harvey@... wrote:

Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours ago

and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought me on

*everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the behavior portionfo the

chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to send her to her room. It finally got

to the point, after an hour and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to

her, " You know what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and jammies. If

you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control whatsoever over your

behaviors and spend the day in the time-out room at school. If you don't want to

brush your teeth, fine, let them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead

of your napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I don't

care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that schoolbus. " And I walked out

of the room. Next thing I know, she's

making a mad

dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes she had left.

And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the house to get on it.

Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list of natural consequences next to

her chore chart and stop insisting she do anything other than get on the bus at

7am and into her room at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will

either become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

Meira

[Guest guest]

We've had mornings like these too. It seems like the more you fight with them,

the worse it gets. I just make sure that we are up early enough and get ready

at least 30 minutes before the bus comes. Even if I am dog tired, it is better

than the melt-down pain.

Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote:

Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to me. She

said some children do that to get attention, it's negative attention, but its

still attention.

I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your daughter was testing you

to see how much you do care. Which she now know you do care and she got ready.

even made the school bus dressed and all. hummm

Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish we (this group)

could all get together, go out and have a latte.

meira-harvey@... wrote:

Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours ago and I'm

just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought me on *everything* and

when I'd count, to take points from the behavior portionfo the chart, she got

very nasty. I kept having to send her to her room. It finally got to the point,

after an hour and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If you don't want

to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and jammies. If you don't want

to take your meds, fine, have no control whatsoever over your behaviors and

spend the day in the time-out room at school. If you don't want to brush your

teeth, fine, let them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I don't care. Just

know that at 7am you ARE getting on that schoolbus. " And I walked out of the

room. Next thing I know, she's

making a mad

dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes she had left.

And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the house to get on it.

Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list of natural consequences next to

her chore chart and stop insisting she do anything other than get on the bus at

7am and into her room at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will

either become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

Meira

[Guest guest]

Meira - I don't blame you one bit for saying it! I find myself doing

everything I can " walking on eggshells " and sometimes it just doesn't

cut it. So thats when I just put it right out there bluntly like you

did. Do whatever you feel but YOU ARE GOING whether you like it or

not. Go in jammies? fine. Never had do send either of my kids in

jammies (cause even my oldest NT will pull crap with me) - but i WOULD.

Heck, some of their jammies are just old t shirts and stuff - play

clothes type. LOL!

> Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours ago

and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought me on

*everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the behavior

portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to send her to

her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour and 40 minutes of

fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know what, I don't care.

It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If you don't want to get

dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and jammies. If you don't

want to take your meds, fine, have no control whatsoever over your

behaviors and spend the day in the time-out room at school. If you

don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let them rot out. If you want to

use your sleeve instead of your napkin, fine, walk around school all

day covered in old food. I don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE

getting on that schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I

know, she's

> making a mad

> dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes she

had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the house

to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list of

natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting she do

anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room at 7pm,

for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either become

infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> Meira

>

>

[Guest guest]

I did something like this with my 5 year old recently. We were late

almost every day to school. I lost it one day and said pretty much

the same as you. I told her we were leaving at 8 am in whatever

condition she was in. Now she does what I ask for the most part. I

give her 10 and 5 minute warning. The mornings have been a lot

better.

Jen

>

> Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know, she's

making a mad

> dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the

house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list

of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> Meira

>

>

[Guest guest]

I despise coffee, and I'd be thrilled to have a latte with you!

>

> Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to me. She

said some children do that to get attention, it's negative attention,

but its still attention.

> I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your daughter was

testing you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you do

care and she got ready. even made the school bus dressed and all.

hummm

> Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish we

(this group) could all get together, go out and have a latte.

[Guest guest]

I agree. That's why I get up at 5am for the 7am bus. You really

think it would make a difference to get up at 4??? I think it might

be easier to just throw her on the bus at 7 in her dirty diaper and

jammies one day. I'm thinking she probably won't let that happen

twice.

Meira

Meira

> Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought me

on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the behavior

portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to send her to

her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour and 40 minutes

of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know what, I don't

care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If you don't want to

get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and jammies. If you

don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control whatsoever over

your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out room at school. If

you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let them rot out. If you

want to use your sleeve instead of your napkin, fine, walk around

school all day covered in old food. I don't care. Just know that at

7am you ARE getting on that schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room.

Next thing I know, she's

> making a mad

> dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes she

had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the house

to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list of

natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting she

do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room at

7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either become

infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> Meira

>

>

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU.

>

> Meira - I don't blame you one bit for saying it! I find myself doing

> everything I can " walking on eggshells " and sometimes it just doesn't

> cut it. So thats when I just put it right out there bluntly like you

> did. Do whatever you feel but YOU ARE GOING whether you like it or

> not. Go in jammies? fine. Never had do send either of my kids in

> jammies (cause even my oldest NT will pull crap with me) - but i

WOULD.

> Heck, some of their jammies are just old t shirts and stuff - play

> clothes type. LOL!

[Guest guest]

LOL... just a latte after that type of morning? LOL!

> >

> > Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to me. She

> said some children do that to get attention, it's negative attention,

> but its still attention.

> > I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your daughter was

> testing you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you do

> care and she got ready. even made the school bus dressed and all.

> hummm

> > Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish we

> (this group) could all get together, go out and have a latte.

>

[Guest guest]

Can I ask what you guys do with frustration overload when there is no

release for it? No one to take over for a few moments, no end in sight

to the testing, no close friend to talk to. This morning was just

horrible, the worst yet. After hours of the defiance, the backtalk,

and the testing, I just spanked his butt (once), put him in his room,

slammed the door and just screamed. Then went into my own room and

cried. Because I feel like a such a failure. I just don't know the

right responses anymore (I think he knows this), and my patience has

run out. I know that if anyone will understand this, it's you guys.

Thanks,

Penny

> >

> > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know, she's

> making a mad

> > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the

> house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list

> of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > Meira

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Don't feel like a failure, we all have our moments. I too have yelled out of

frustration. Something to keep in mind (and I have to remember this myself!), is

that the child may shut down at the first sign of emotion that comes out of you.

They won't listen or understand anything you say. What I try to do is have him

go to his room to cool down and say calmly that I am going to go to my room to

calm down. And then try to " calm down " in my room as quietly as possible. Cry,

scream into a pillow, turn on some calming music.

coffeenut5 <coffeenut5@...> wrote:

Can I ask what you guys do with frustration overload when there is no

release for it? No one to take over for a few moments, no end in sight

to the testing, no close friend to talk to. This morning was just

horrible, the worst yet. After hours of the defiance, the backtalk,

and the testing, I just spanked his butt (once), put him in his room,

slammed the door and just screamed. Then went into my own room and

cried. Because I feel like a such a failure. I just don't know the

right responses anymore (I think he knows this), and my patience has

run out. I know that if anyone will understand this, it's you guys.

Thanks,

Penny

> >

> > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know, she's

> making a mad

> > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the

> house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list

> of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > Meira

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I've been there too, until I learned that spanking does not work - he

only comes righ back after me or finds something to throw. But I do

place him in his room, and close the door. everything in there if he

wants to throw it, fine. I can't " talk him out of his mood " so I

just send him to another room to be away from anything that might keep

him in his mood. He will rant and rave for a bit, but he gets

distracted by something, starts playing with it and then eventually

emerges just as happy as can be. That is the only thing I have found

when I am at my end that works. Oh yeah, I've bawled my eyes out too

- and still do from time to time. Frustration - its never ending!!

> > >

> > > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> > ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> > me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> > behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> > send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> > and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> > what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> > you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> > jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> > whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> > room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> > them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> > napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> > don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> > schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know, she's

> > making a mad

> > > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> > she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the

> > house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list

> > of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> > she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> > at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> > become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > > Meira

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I love the idea of posting a list of the natural consequenses next to the chore.

That's a really good idea. My son used to always ask " why " everytime I told him

he had to do something. Now it's a rule that he do what I ask and then he can

ask why, otherwise he'll never get it done and the " why " conversation could go

on for hours. Putting it next to the chore so the " why " doesn't come up in the

first place would be great!

meira-harvey@... wrote: Oh wow did we have a tough

morning. She got on the bus two hours ago and I'm just now recovered enough to

talk about it. She fought me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points

from the behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to send

her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour and 40 minutes of

fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know what, I don't care. It's not

worth fighting with you anymore. If you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to

school in your dipe and jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have

no control whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out room

at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let them rot out. If you

want to use your sleeve instead of your napkin, fine, walk around school all day

covered in old food. I don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

schoolbus. " And I walked out of the

room. Next thing I know, she's making a mad

dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes she had left.

And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the house to get on it.

Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list of natural consequences next to

her chore chart and stop insisting she do anything other than get on the bus at

7am and into her room at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will

either become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

Meira

[Guest guest]

that would be awesome if we could do " smiley's " I would cyber you a latte. LOL

meiraharvey <meira-harvey@...> wrote: I despise coffee,

and I'd be thrilled to have a latte with you!

>

> Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to me. She

said some children do that to get attention, it's negative attention,

but its still attention.

> I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your daughter was

testing you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you do

care and she got ready. even made the school bus dressed and all.

hummm

> Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish we

(this group) could all get together, go out and have a latte.

---------------------------------

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

[Guest guest]

What do you do with a child who insists it's us, not him, who is " retarded,

crazy, stupid, wrong, and needs help " . DS has just been suspended a third

time, and this is not counting in-school Saturdays, detention, countless phone

calls, etc. from school. He's 12, in 7th grade, absolutely intelligent and

incredibly immature, with a DX of AS and PDD-NOS. I'm fighting the school

system

just to get him evaluated, and have hired an attorney because at this point they

are not answering phone calls or letters, and I'm at the end of my rope.

I want to get the kid help, but he's insisting when the child study team

calls him in for the eval, he's not going to go, there is nothing wrong, it's us

who are wrong.

Special services " evaluated " him in the fall, told me with his test scores

there is obviously no learning disability, and they refused to do further

testing. He never saw the school psychologist, and I have come to realize they

didn't bother with him, and blew me off. When I asked them why a smart child is

failing his courses, which he is, the teachers told me he is disruptive,

disorganized, talks back and has behavior issues...well, DUH! So let's give up

on

him, is that it? I guess that's easier than maybe taking the time to help

desperate parents and a disabled child.

Anyhow, tomorrow I'm meeting with the school principal to appeal his

suspension, which is pretty nebulous, I'm told for being disruptive in the class

despite being asked to stop. It should be interesting. I asked if I could bring

my

attorney and advocate (not that I have an advocate, yet) and was told that

would not be necessary. The " A " word, they don't

like...Autism...Asperger's...Attorney...Advocate, guess those are bad words.

I'm so stressed I can't eat, sleep or get enjoyment out of anything. Right

now I'm sitting here, about to be late for work, listening to a Springsteen

concert CD, which is about the only thing that gives me any pleasure lately.

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before she got home from school, I posted all the things I said over

her chore list, and in her bedroom as well, and added a bunch too,

for example:

After School

Behavior

Don't hang up your belongings when you get in the house.

Consequence

Have filthy stinky belongings.

Behavior

Don't wash your hands before eating.

Consequence

Get sick.

Behavior

Don't take peanut butter meds.

Consequence

Have out of control behavior and spend the afternoon and evening in

your room, and then have nightmares and trouble sleeping.

Behavior

Don't take juice meds.

Consequence

Get a stomach ache and overload your diaper and sleep in the overflow

in your bed.

..

..

..

I told her I'd had it with fighting with her and I simply wasn't

going to anymore. I was going to make her do three things:

1) Get on the bus at 7am.

2) Go to her room for the night at 7pm.

3) Go to her room if she's disrespectful or tantrumming.

I talked to her about the list, and then got out my book and

pretended to read...

At first, she was wandering happily and aimlessly around the house,

singing " Freedom, I've got freedom! " I looked at the meds bag and

said loudly to myself, " Oh its too bad doesn't want to take

her meds. It'll be sad for her to be up all night by herself with

nightmares from not having her meds. " She immediately ran into the

kitchen, begged me to give her the meds, and got through them in 30

seconds.

Next, she was playing with her dolls, and I casually got some clean

clothes out of the laundry room and said LOUDLY to myself, " Oh,

there's nothing I like more than putting on clean clothes in the

morning. It's too bad will have to wear dirty clothes

tomorrow since she has no clean clothes in her room, since she's

refused to put them away. " Within seconds, she was begging me to

PLEASE let her go in my room and get her clean folded laundry to put

it away.

A little later on, she said to me, since she's now allowed to do

whatever she wants, can she play on the computer? I said, " Sure, you

can do whatever you want. But you're going to have to pay me for the

electricity you'll be using if you want me to give you back the power

cord for the computer. " She said that sounded fair. Could she

please do some extra chores for me to earn the money to pay for the

electricity? At this point I'm trying really really hard not to

laugh. I told her that sounded great. Of course, I couldn't very well

give her added responsibilities if she wasn't capable of fulfilling

the responsibilities she already had, like her homework and self-

care. She said " You're right. "

She then went into her room, and told the world (via the baby

monitor, ha ha) about how she was going to get the money out of Aunt

Elin by doing chores for her... I then emailed my SIL and ecplained

what was going on and to please play along, and that maybe she'll

actually do some of the days and days worth of homework that's been

piling up undone if she realizes she can't get the money out of

anyone but me, and she can only get it out of me by doing the things

she's supposed to do...

So then I started cooking dinner and mentioned to myself loudly how

sad it was that wouldn't be able to eat dinner with us since

she hadn't bothered to do her homework. She stopped playing to

listen to my words, but then went right back to playing, saying

nothing. Every 20 minutes or so I did this same thing. Until 5:50,

when I said, " Oh look, I see Daddy driving up the driveway. Great, we

can have dinner now. It's too bad can't join us. And even

made her favorite dinner of cheesy chip and beans and rice and

peas... "

At that point, for the first time in two hours, she lost her cool and

happiness at freedom and went completely and utterly ballistic. I

sent her to her room to calm down. When she calmed down, she asked

me if she did her homeworkm could she have dinner with us. I said

sure, but dinner was in 5 minutes, and I seriously doubted she could

get her homework done int hat time. She started to cry, and ran to

the kitchen table, and started working on her homework as quickly as

she could. We sat down and started eating dinner, and she started

crying. I sent her to her room to calm down. She got hysterical,

and started screaming, " I quit this program! I DO need a mother. I'm

not ready to be a grown up! I want my Mommyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!! "

I didn't know whether to cry with joy or do the victory dance, so I

did both, and then went to her room, snuggled her, calmed her, and

talked her through everything that had happened today. I had her get

ready for bed, while we finished dinner without her, then after

clearing the table, I gave her a small simple not-favorite-dinner to

quickly eat, then snuggled her, read to her, and tucked her in.

Then danced around the house some more.

And this morning she was an absolute angel. Completely. Happy good

little girl. Eccentric weird little girl. But happy and good and

compliant.

I AM SO HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all so much for being here and giving me the courage to try

things that might work for her even if they're not the generally

accepted norm.

You are all amazing!!!!

Meira

Hugs,

Meira

> >

> > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know,

she's

> making a mad

> > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of

the

> house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a

list

> of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > Meira

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

LOL. I don't do THAT either, but believe me I've been seriously

considering it.... =)

> > >

> > > Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to

me. She

> > said some children do that to get attention, it's negative

attention,

> > but its still attention.

> > > I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your

daughter was

> > testing you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you

do

> > care and she got ready. even made the school bus dressed and

all.

> > hummm

> > > Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish

we

> > (this group) could all get together, go out and have a latte.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny,

You are clearly incredibly overwhelmed, and oh my God, do I

understand!!!!!!! And one thing I keep in mind always, is that

whatever we do, they see, and later copy. So I do not ever spank.

Oh there are days I've had to do some serious work with myself to

hold myself back, but I have to, because if I don't stay in control

no one will.

When I feel like that, I send us both to our rooms. I have a babygate

on her door with a padlock to keep her safely inside, then I go to my

room, blast the TV or stereo, bury myself under the blankets. and

scream my lungs out into the pillows, and cry.

Then I calm, myself down, and when I've got myself under control, I

go back to her room and do what I can to calm her down.

When she was little, I couldn't do that, because she would injure

herself if left alone in that mood. So I would wrap myself around

her in the passive restraint hold, and rock and sing, and rock, and

sing, for hours at a time, while she screamed. I honestly didn't

think either of us was going to survive her childhood.

But we did.

Now everyday isn't like that. Most days are fairly good, in fact,

and some are great. It's taken a lot of work to get here, and we

have a lot more work to do. But I'm ready to do it.

You definitely do need respite. Hold old is your child? When

was 18 months old, I signed her up for afternoon preschool so I could

get a break for a couple of hours in the middle of the day. At

three, I got her admitted to the IU's therapeutic preschool half

time, and at 5, full time kindergarten.

YOU NEED A BREAK.

Also, there is something called Wrap Around Services. Are you in the

United States? You have your child declared emotionally disabled,

get him on Medicaid for disabled children, and they provide for free

an in-home mobile therapist, behavioral specialist, and therapeutic

support staff, for several hours a week.

At one point, from ages 4-5 and a half, we had someone there almost

every minute that she was home and awake because she was so out of

control and I just couldn't do it myself anymore.

Something clicked for her though at five and a half, and now we're

doing great compared to where we were back then.

You also have us. I'll email you my phone number and you can call me

anytime. I'm not always here, but when I am, I'm all yours if you

need me. Others have been there for me. And someday you'll be there

for someone else.

Huge hugs, my friend,

Meira

> > >

> > > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two

hours

> > ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She

fought

> > me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> > behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having

to

> > send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> > and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You

know

> > what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> > you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe

and

> > jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no

control

> > whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> > room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> > them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> > napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> > don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> > schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know,

she's

> > making a mad

> > > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> > she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of

the

> > house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a

list

> > of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop

insisting

> > she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her

room

> > at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will

either

> > become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > > Meira

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

gluten-free diet or homeschool ??

>>> <CyberMommyLJA@...> 3/22/2007 8:41 AM >>>

What do you do with a child who insists it's us, not him, who is " retarded,

crazy, stupid, wrong, and needs help " . DS has just been suspended a third

time, and this is not counting in-school Saturdays, detention, countless phone

calls, etc. from school. He's 12, in 7th grade, absolutely intelligent and

incredibly immature, with a DX of AS and PDD-NOS. I'm fighting the school

system

just to get him evaluated, and have hired an attorney because at this point they

are not answering phone calls or letters, and I'm at the end of my rope.

I want to get the kid help, but he's insisting when the child study team

calls him in for the eval, he's not going to go, there is nothing wrong, it's us

who are wrong.

Special services " evaluated " him in the fall, told me with his test scores

there is obviously no learning disability, and they refused to do further

testing. He never saw the school psychologist, and I have come to realize they

didn't bother with him, and blew me off. When I asked them why a smart child is

failing his courses, which he is, the teachers told me he is disruptive,

disorganized, talks back and has behavior issues...well, DUH! So let's give up

on

him, is that it? I guess that's easier than maybe taking the time to help

desperate parents and a disabled child.

Anyhow, tomorrow I'm meeting with the school principal to appeal his

suspension, which is pretty nebulous, I'm told for being disruptive in the class

despite being asked to stop. It should be interesting. I asked if I could bring

my

attorney and advocate (not that I have an advocate, yet) and was told that

would not be necessary. The " A " word, they don't

like...Autism...Asperger's...Attorney...Advocate, guess those are bad words.

I'm so stressed I can't eat, sleep or get enjoyment out of anything. Right

now I'm sitting here, about to be late for work, listening to a Springsteen

concert CD, which is about the only thing that gives me any pleasure lately.

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

Won't be neccessary (to bring a lawyer) according to WHOM? I wonder . . .

Take a lawyer or advocate. Screw the principal! He just dosen't want one

there (beacuse he will have to bring in HIS counsel)!

I am sorry you will have to dig deep to bring the fight to the school but

they have given you no choice.

Pin them down to when you advised them of your son's independent dx.

Ask why they did not ever bring in Psych. Pin them to thier answers.

Very truly yours;

Todd B. Kotler

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return e-mail. Thank you.

Re: ( ) Re: frustration overload and bizarre

response

What do you do with a child who insists it's us, not him, who is

" retarded,

crazy, stupid, wrong, and needs help " . DS has just been suspended a third

time, and this is not counting in-school Saturdays, detention, countless

phone

calls, etc. from school. He's 12, in 7th grade, absolutely intelligent and

incredibly immature, with a DX of AS and PDD-NOS. I'm fighting the school

system

just to get him evaluated, and have hired an attorney because at this

point they

are not answering phone calls or letters, and I'm at the end of my rope.

I want to get the kid help, but he's insisting when the child study team

calls him in for the eval, he's not going to go, there is nothing wrong,

it's us

who are wrong.

Special services " evaluated " him in the fall, told me with his test scores

there is obviously no learning disability, and they refused to do further

testing. He never saw the school psychologist, and I have come to realize

they

didn't bother with him, and blew me off. When I asked them why a smart

child is

failing his courses, which he is, the teachers told me he is disruptive,

disorganized, talks back and has behavior issues...well, DUH! So let's

give up on

him, is that it? I guess that's easier than maybe taking the time to help

desperate parents and a disabled child.

Anyhow, tomorrow I'm meeting with the school principal to appeal his

suspension, which is pretty nebulous, I'm told for being disruptive in the

class

despite being asked to stop. It should be interesting. I asked if I could

bring my

attorney and advocate (not that I have an advocate, yet) and was told that

would not be necessary. The " A " word, they don't

like...Autism...Asperger's...Attorney...Advocate, guess those are bad

words.

I'm so stressed I can't eat, sleep or get enjoyment out of anything. Right

now I'm sitting here, about to be late for work, listening to a

Springsteen

concert CD, which is about the only thing that gives me any pleasure

lately.

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

LOL to many empty calories...

meiraharvey <meira-harvey@...> wrote: LOL. I don't do

THAT either, but believe me I've been seriously

considering it.... =)

> > >

> > > Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to

me. She

> > said some children do that to get attention, it's negative

attention,

> > but its still attention.

> > > I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your

daughter was

> > testing you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you

do

> > care and she got ready. even made the school bus dressed and

all.

> > hummm

> > > Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish

we

> > (this group) could all get together, go out and have a latte.

> >

>

---------------------------------

Need Mail bonding?

Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

[Guest guest]

How wonderful!! What great news!! Congratulations!

I'm saving your tips for when my kids do that! lol Thank you for sharing

this with us!

-Jenn, AEP (ADD, Bi-Polar, Anxiety/Depression)

Proud Momma of Cory Albert (14yrs ADHD), h Dawn (12yrs

Anxiety/Depression)

and Jerry Lee " Trey " (9yrs ADHD, Bi-Polar, Asperger's)

-- ( ) Re: frustration overload and bizarre response

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before she got home from school, I posted all the things I said over

her chore list, and in her bedroom as well, and added a bunch too,

for example:

After School

Behavior

Don't hang up your belongings when you get in the house.

Consequence

Have filthy stinky belongings.

Behavior

Don't wash your hands before eating.

Consequence

Get sick.

Behavior

Don't take peanut butter meds.

Consequence

Have out of control behavior and spend the afternoon and evening in

your room, and then have nightmares and trouble sleeping.

Behavior

Don't take juice meds.

Consequence

Get a stomach ache and overload your diaper and sleep in the overflow

in your bed.

...

...

...

I told her I'd had it with fighting with her and I simply wasn't

going to anymore. I was going to make her do three things:

1) Get on the bus at 7am.

2) Go to her room for the night at 7pm.

3) Go to her room if she's disrespectful or tantrumming.

I talked to her about the list, and then got out my book and

pretended to read...

At first, she was wandering happily and aimlessly around the house,

singing " Freedom, I've got freedom! " I looked at the meds bag and

said loudly to myself, " Oh its too bad doesn't want to take

her meds. It'll be sad for her to be up all night by herself with

nightmares from not having her meds. " She immediately ran into the

kitchen, begged me to give her the meds, and got through them in 30

seconds.

Next, she was playing with her dolls, and I casually got some clean

clothes out of the laundry room and said LOUDLY to myself, " Oh,

there's nothing I like more than putting on clean clothes in the

morning. It's too bad will have to wear dirty clothes

tomorrow since she has no clean clothes in her room, since she's

refused to put them away. " Within seconds, she was begging me to

PLEASE let her go in my room and get her clean folded laundry to put

it away.

A little later on, she said to me, since she's now allowed to do

whatever she wants, can she play on the computer? I said, " Sure, you

can do whatever you want. But you're going to have to pay me for the

electricity you'll be using if you want me to give you back the power

cord for the computer. " She said that sounded fair. Could she

please do some extra chores for me to earn the money to pay for the

electricity? At this point I'm trying really really hard not to

laugh. I told her that sounded great. Of course, I couldn't very well

give her added responsibilities if she wasn't capable of fulfilling

the responsibilities she already had, like her homework and self-

care. She said " You're right. "

She then went into her room, and told the world (via the baby

monitor, ha ha) about how she was going to get the money out of Aunt

Elin by doing chores for her... I then emailed my SIL and ecplained

what was going on and to please play along, and that maybe she'll

actually do some of the days and days worth of homework that's been

piling up undone if she realizes she can't get the money out of

anyone but me, and she can only get it out of me by doing the things

she's supposed to do...

So then I started cooking dinner and mentioned to myself loudly how

sad it was that wouldn't be able to eat dinner with us since

she hadn't bothered to do her homework. She stopped playing to

listen to my words, but then went right back to playing, saying

nothing. Every 20 minutes or so I did this same thing. Until 5:50,

when I said, " Oh look, I see Daddy driving up the driveway. Great, we

can have dinner now. It's too bad can't join us. And even

made her favorite dinner of cheesy chip and beans and rice and

peas... "

At that point, for the first time in two hours, she lost her cool and

happiness at freedom and went completely and utterly ballistic. I

sent her to her room to calm down. When she calmed down, she asked

me if she did her homeworkm could she have dinner with us. I said

sure, but dinner was in 5 minutes, and I seriously doubted she could

get her homework done int hat time. She started to cry, and ran to

the kitchen table, and started working on her homework as quickly as

she could. We sat down and started eating dinner, and she started

crying. I sent her to her room to calm down. She got hysterical,

and started screaming, " I quit this program! I DO need a mother. I'm

not ready to be a grown up! I want my Mommyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!! "

I didn't know whether to cry with joy or do the victory dance, so I

did both, and then went to her room, snuggled her, calmed her, and

talked her through everything that had happened today. I had her get

ready for bed, while we finished dinner without her, then after

clearing the table, I gave her a small simple not-favorite-dinner to

quickly eat, then snuggled her, read to her, and tucked her in.

Then danced around the house some more.

And this morning she was an absolute angel. Completely. Happy good

little girl. Eccentric weird little girl. But happy and good and

compliant.

I AM SO HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all so much for being here and giving me the courage to try

things that might work for her even if they're not the generally

accepted norm.

You are all amazing!!!!

Meira

Hugs,

Meira

> >

> > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know,

she's

> making a mad

> > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of

the

> house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a

list

> of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > Meira

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

wow!!!

I hate these kind of mornings and can so relate. Hope the rest of the day

was better.

Suzanne

-- ( ) frustration overload and bizarre response

Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours ago and I'm

just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought me on *everything*

and when I'd count, to take points from the behavior portionfo the chart,

she got very nasty. I kept having to send her to her room. It finally got to

the point, after an hour and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to

her, " You know what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore.

If you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out room at

school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let them rot out. If

you want to use your sleeve instead of your napkin, fine, walk around school

all day covered in old food. I don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE

getting on that schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know,

she's making a mad

dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes she had left

And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the house to get on it.

Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list of natural consequences next

to her chore chart and stop insisting she do anything other than get on the

bus at 7am and into her room at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens.

My life will either become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair

out.

Meira

[Guest guest]

Penny,

I know we have reached this point a couple times too. The worse part is,

even a swat didn't make my son stop. There are days his mouth is so out of

control that I just can't believe it. I know not every AS kid is like this

but mine sure is. One thing we do try to do is when he gets like this we

give him the option of stopping or a chore. Then if he continues there are

added chores and we make a list so we don't forget. When I do this he

usually continues to complain but not for his dad, although he may mumble

under his breath and depending on what that is he may get another chore. Of

course I feel guilty but I too don't know what to do somedays, and no matter

what there are days that nothing seems to work. I just thank God that things

are better then last year and we do have more okay days compared to then.

I do so understand how you feel. Hope today is a good day for you.

Suzanne

-- ( ) Re: frustration overload and bizarre response

Can I ask what you guys do with frustration overload when there is no

release for it? No one to take over for a few moments, no end in sight

to the testing, no close friend to talk to. This morning was just

horrible, the worst yet. After hours of the defiance, the backtalk,

and the testing, I just spanked his butt (once), put him in his room,

slammed the door and just screamed. Then went into my own room and

cried. Because I feel like a such a failure. I just don't know the

right responses anymore (I think he knows this), and my patience has

run out. I know that if anyone will understand this, it's you guys.

Thanks,

Penny

> >

> > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know, she's

> making a mad

> > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the

> house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list

> of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > Meira

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This summer I plan on having a get together at my house at the lake for all

of us moms and kids. You can have a latte if you want but I'll be drinking

ice tea! I think it would be great for us to get some face to face talk and

really get to know each other better..I live in Ga though and realize

evryone is not from here.. Toni

Re: ( ) frustration overload and bizarre response

> I despise coffee, and I'd be thrilled to have a latte with you!

>

>

>

> >

> > Roxanna posted a reply on lying which made lots of sense to me. She

> said some children do that to get attention, it's negative attention,

> but its still attention.

> > I know lying is not the case with you. but maybe your daughter was

> testing you to see how much you do care. Which she now know you do

> care and she got ready. even made the school bus dressed and all.

> hummm

> > Mom, its just a test...LOL, some mornings like these, I wish we

> (this group) could all get together, go out and have a latte.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know it is not the correct answer for frustration overload, but my kids

are older (18) and I will go into my bedroom and lock the door and put my

biggest, ugliest looking granny panties on the door handle so I KNOW they

won't touch the handle to get in. Then I have a good cry or try and lose

myself in tv or just hug on my dogs...Toni (gotta cope how ever you can

sometimes) My kids are pros at pushing the right buttons to try and get me

going....

( ) Re: frustration overload and bizarre response

> Can I ask what you guys do with frustration overload when there is no

> release for it? No one to take over for a few moments, no end in sight

> to the testing, no close friend to talk to. This morning was just

> horrible, the worst yet. After hours of the defiance, the backtalk,

> and the testing, I just spanked his butt (once), put him in his room,

> slammed the door and just screamed. Then went into my own room and

> cried. Because I feel like a such a failure. I just don't know the

> right responses anymore (I think he knows this), and my patience has

> run out. I know that if anyone will understand this, it's you guys.

>

> Thanks,

> Penny

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Oh wow did we have a tough morning. She got on the bus two hours

> > ago and I'm just now recovered enough to talk about it. She fought

> > me on *everything* and when I'd count, to take points from the

> > behavior portionfo the chart, she got very nasty. I kept having to

> > send her to her room. It finally got to the point, after an hour

> > and 40 minutes of fighting with her, that I said to her, " You know

> > what, I don't care. It's not worth fighting with you anymore. If

> > you don't want to get dressed, fine, go to school in your dipe and

> > jammies. If you don't want to take your meds, fine, have no control

> > whatsoever over your behaviors and spend the day in the time-out

> > room at school. If you don't want to brush your teeth, fine, let

> > them rot out. If you want to use your sleeve instead of your

> > napkin, fine, walk around school all day covered in old food. I

> > don't care. Just know that at 7am you ARE getting on that

> > schoolbus. " And I walked out of the room. Next thing I know, she's

> > making a mad

> > > dash through the house to get everything done in the 20 minutes

> > she had left. And when the school bus showed up, she ran out of the

> > house to get on it. Unbelievable. I think I'm going to post a list

> > of natural consequences next to her chore chart and stop insisting

> > she do anything other than get on the bus at 7am and into her room

> > at 7pm, for a few days, and see what happens. My life will either

> > become infinitely simplified or I'll pull all of my hair out.

> > > Meira

> > >

> > >