Re: New formula - Interesting changes (+ a job for andrew)

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to really thank everyone posting on this thread and

offering info. This is how we learn!

I will write more on this tomorrow, but right off here are some ideas

to think about. Please post if any of these seem possible in your

situation.

- the vast majority of people using either old or new formulation

aren't noticing a thing. So it is the edges of the Bell Curve and

highly sensitive people we are looking out. Perhaps we will find a

subgroup that this makes a difference for.

- the switch from rice bran to cellulose doesn't really seem like

that big a deal that could cause the very big changes observed. But

you never know. It is essentially going from one 'neutral' to

another 'neutral'. However, the quantity (in milligrams) of switching

from anything to anything could provoke a reaction in some

individuals.

- I looked at any benefits to rice bran that a person might be

missing with the new formulation. It is more an oily fat than bran.

Only big thing it is noted for is being a good antioxidant. Hard to

imagine just an antioxidant would make that much difference. Any

input?

- I looked any negatives associated with cellulose (aside from any

indigestible-ness of it being cellulose). No big negatives. If it was

just the fact that cellulose might be provoking a some yeast

increase...any input? anyone that has known yeast/bacteria problems

and the effects of the switch were very similar to past behavior?

- Then I considered the positive aspects of papain that were now

gone. Remember that when AFP came out, the regular Peptizyde still

seemed to be just a tad better. But if you couldn't use regular

Peptizyde, the AFP was great. Some could tolerate AFP that could use

the regular. However, the 'old' AFP didn't have papain and still,

there were big changes noted with the cellulose 'new' AFP.

- If anyone was around when No-Fenol first came out, there were very

similar reports. Some kids were having a really hard time adjusting

and there didn't seem to be any good reason for it. But it soon

became apparent that No-Fenol was causing big-time die-off in those

that had yeast and bacteria problems.

And a little research into the enzymes revealed that they were often

used to help reduce waste in animals and get the most from fibrous

foods. Although this is good, if you are not prepared for wondrous

die-off, it can be alarming. Now we know and can advise new people

that No-Fenol can have quite a kick on yeast/bacteria, it is very

helpful for bowel problems, and works well on phenolic foods.

From the reports today of the new enzymes being used over time, it

seems that at least kids are 'coming out of it'. Perhaps this was

some kind of die-off or healing action. With the No-Fenol, some

parents were needing to give only a few sprinkles each time for

weeks. They needed to go that low-n-slow because the die-off was that

great. Of course, it is wonderful to have this avenue for therapy if

you need it.

So I was wondering if the new formula was causing some type of die-

off reaction OR some other detox reaction. It might be if you used

the powder instead of the capsules and the enzymes were mixed in

better. Or maybe you measured more out on a teaspoon than in a

capsule so you got more enzymes in.

***for andrew: andrew first picked up on the possibility that

tyrosine (needed for neurotransmitters) might be more available with

No-Fenol. The symptoms reported certainly were consistent with that.

So I wondering if andrew could look at any possible connections of

amino acids being either more available or less available with the

cellulose versions. A little thinking out of the box would be handy

right now (to say nothing of the fact it is bedtime at my house but

in Australia you guys got lots of time yet, LOL)

I wish it was more clear cut than this.

Sincerely,

.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your ideas . I really hope that this is a good thing in the

long

run and just something we need to get through,want to get through NOW

though : )

I just wanted to mention that he didn't react badly at all when we started the

old formulation, I was so happy that it went so well!

Not a dosing issue here as we went from caps to caps.

I should get my order of the old enzymes in the next few days. Still trying to

decide the best way to switch back though. Have to think on that for a while.

I will be sure to post how it goes.

For what it's worth - his little brother who has downs syndrome started off with

the old ZP and made the switch to the new ZP with no problems at all. I just

started him on some new AFP this week and have seen no negatives at all

so far. Good thing too - I have lots of the new enzymes!

Laurie

> I just wanted to really thank everyone posting on this thread and

> offering info. This is how we learn!

>

> I will write more on this tomorrow, but right off here are some ideas

> to think about. Please post if any of these seem possible in your

> situation.

>

> - the vast majority of people using either old or new formulation

> aren't noticing a thing. So it is the edges of the Bell Curve and

> highly sensitive people we are looking out. Perhaps we will find a

> subgroup that this makes a difference for.

>

> - the switch from rice bran to cellulose doesn't really seem like

> that big a deal that could cause the very big changes observed. But

> you never know. It is essentially going from one 'neutral' to

> another 'neutral'. However, the quantity (in milligrams) of switching

> from anything to anything could provoke a reaction in some

> individuals.

>

> - I looked at any benefits to rice bran that a person might be

> missing with the new formulation. It is more an oily fat than bran.

> Only big thing it is noted for is being a good antioxidant. Hard to

> imagine just an antioxidant would make that much difference. Any

> input?

>

> - I looked any negatives associated with cellulose (aside from any

> indigestible-ness of it being cellulose). No big negatives. If it was

> just the fact that cellulose might be provoking a some yeast

> increase...any input? anyone that has known yeast/bacteria problems

> and the effects of the switch were very similar to past behavior?

>

> - Then I considered the positive aspects of papain that were now

> gone. Remember that when AFP came out, the regular Peptizyde still

> seemed to be just a tad better. But if you couldn't use regular

> Peptizyde, the AFP was great. Some could tolerate AFP that could use

> the regular. However, the 'old' AFP didn't have papain and still,

> there were big changes noted with the cellulose 'new' AFP.

>

> - If anyone was around when No-Fenol first came out, there were very

> similar reports. Some kids were having a really hard time adjusting

> and there didn't seem to be any good reason for it. But it soon

> became apparent that No-Fenol was causing big-time die-off in those

> that had yeast and bacteria problems.

>

> And a little research into the enzymes revealed that they were often

> used to help reduce waste in animals and get the most from fibrous

> foods. Although this is good, if you are not prepared for wondrous

> die-off, it can be alarming. Now we know and can advise new people

> that No-Fenol can have quite a kick on yeast/bacteria, it is very

> helpful for bowel problems, and works well on phenolic foods.

>

> From the reports today of the new enzymes being used over time, it

> seems that at least kids are 'coming out of it'. Perhaps this was

> some kind of die-off or healing action. With the No-Fenol, some

> parents were needing to give only a few sprinkles each time for

> weeks. They needed to go that low-n-slow because the die-off was that

> great. Of course, it is wonderful to have this avenue for therapy if

> you need it.

>

> So I was wondering if the new formula was causing some type of die-

> off reaction OR some other detox reaction. It might be if you used

> the powder instead of the capsules and the enzymes were mixed in

> better. Or maybe you measured more out on a teaspoon than in a

> capsule so you got more enzymes in.

>

> ***for andrew: andrew first picked up on the possibility that

> tyrosine (needed for neurotransmitters) might be more available with

> No-Fenol. The symptoms reported certainly were consistent with that.

> So I wondering if andrew could look at any possible connections of

> amino acids being either more available or less available with the

> cellulose versions. A little thinking out of the box would be handy

> right now (to say nothing of the fact it is bedtime at my house but

> in Australia you guys got lots of time yet, LOL)

>

>

> I wish it was more clear cut than this.

> Sincerely,

> .

[Guest guest]

the only thing i can think of is that some kids have a very

fermentative gut biofilm which can access the sugars in the celluose

and provide nutrients for the malign biofilm and its toxic by

products to grow.

to me if a kid reacted badly to cellulose by that logic you have to

look at more scd empahsis and srengthening the gut innate innume

system and maybe oreganol or collidal silver to try and wipe out the

fermenting biofilm(collidal silver will not suit some kids because of

heavy metals excretion issues)

also the rice bran may have a small amount level of antioxidant

(tocotrienols) as you point out.

> >

> > ***for andrew: andrew first picked up on the possibility that

> > tyrosine (needed for neurotransmitters) might be more available

with

> > No-Fenol. The symptoms reported certainly were consistent with

that.

> > So I wondering if andrew could look at any possible connections

of

> > amino acids being either more available or less available with

the

> > cellulose versions. A little thinking out of the box would be

handy

> > right now (to say nothing of the fact it is bedtime at my house

but

> > in Australia you guys got lots of time yet, LOL)

> >

> >

> > I wish it was more clear cut than this.

> > Sincerely,

> > .

[Guest guest]

You are so right that the MCT oil might be a viral or other pathogen

die-off reaction. If the MCT oil was effective especially in the

presence of the enzymes (synergist effect), this could cause a

noticeable reaction.

Maybe all this is causeing some shifting around in the gut too.

Interesting. It seems although this version is better for some, it

isn't for others (or there is a re-adjustment). So the Bell Curve

just shifts some with outliers still on the end. Most people seeing

a negative reaciton are saying it ends after another adjustment. The

kids with really bad ones might be seeing the die-off of something,

or the growth of something. This one isn't as clear-cut as the No-

Fenol turned out to be.

I think it is interesting too that even Devin Houston hasn't really

improved on his original formulations. Any company attempting to copy

them has fallen way short for some reason, and now some people are

doing well with the newer versions, but others see better results

with the originals ones.

.