Re: Help me find good DAN dr./protocol

November 18, 2005

There is no official DAN! protocol we can deem unsafe, unless you

are referring to their tendency to use higher doses of a chelator

spread over fewer doses (versus what Andy recommends).

If you go to 10 different doctors, you are likely to get 5-10

different 'protocols' or treatment plans/chelators for your child.

What sets DAN! apart from other physicians is the belief that our

children are treatable/ " healable " because they are physically ill

and/or poisoned. From that point, you really need to shop around

within the DAN! provider community to find a treatment plan that

works for you.

Pam

>

> Welcome to the list. Many here feel the DAN protocol is unsafe.

Please read the FAQs of this list about Andy Cutler's protocol.

Many here have chosen to do chelation on their own without a doctor.

> S S

>

> --- On Sat 11/12, el_3$for@ < el_3sfora@y... > wrote

>

> Hi all,

>

> I need your help, I am Marwan`s mother from Egypt and I need to

recommend me GREAT DAN doctor or Center follow the DAN protocol in

chelation & can handle with international patient ,

>

> And with your experience with DAN dr. what do I have to expect in

the first visit, will he ask me to repeat the Lab tests? Do I have

to stay if he repeats it until return back and then back to the Dr.

again and know the situation, medications, etc…?

>

> I phoned Dr. Bradstreet center and they are not take new patients

for now and they have big waiting list and will start to call them

from March( too much waiting)and I have limited time ,

>

> And I phoned also Dr. Neubrander and he is not accepting

international patients because of problems in medications and

customs.

>

> Any information is highly appreciated.

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

> Hanan

>

> ---------------------------------

> Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide

with voicemail

>

November 18, 2005

I agree wholeheartedly with what Pam says. I have had nothing but

good experiences with our DAN! doc. I think this is because I drive

the course of treatment for my son. She essentially backs me up.

The danger with DAN! docs lies not so much with the doctor but with

the parent who is willing to go along with a proposed " protocol "

without having done his or her research. It is a lesson most of us

should have learned from our experiences that brought us together in

the first place!

Anne

> >

> > Welcome to the list. Many here feel the DAN protocol is unsafe.

> Please read the FAQs of this list about Andy Cutler's protocol.

> Many here have chosen to do chelation on their own without a doctor.

> > S S

> >

> > --- On Sat 11/12, el_3$for@ < el_3sfora@y... > wrote

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I need your help, I am Marwan`s mother from Egypt and I need to

> recommend me GREAT DAN doctor or Center follow the DAN protocol in

> chelation & can handle with international patient ,

> >

> > And with your experience with DAN dr. what do I have to expect in

> the first visit, will he ask me to repeat the Lab tests? Do I have

> to stay if he repeats it until return back and then back to the Dr.

> again and know the situation, medications, etc…?

> >

> > I phoned Dr. Bradstreet center and they are not take new patients

> for now and they have big waiting list and will start to call them

> from March( too much waiting)and I have limited time ,

> >

> > And I phoned also Dr. Neubrander and he is not accepting

> international patients because of problems in medications and

> customs.

> >

> > Any information is highly appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks in advance.

> >

> > Hanan

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide

> with voicemail

> >

November 18, 2005

I would like to chime in here.

I don't want to get in the habit of arbitrarily bashing DAN! doctors

on this site, I think we should at least give them the benefit of the

doubt.

I think *most* DAN! doctors are willing to be flexible regarding

chelation protocol if asked. (firmly if necessary)

It seems that many DAN! doctors likely advocate some version of

protocol that we on this board feel is un-necessarily prone to

negative effects due to the infrequent timing and sometimes quite

high dosing.

I choose to believe that like their traditional medicine counterparts

they are doing what they have been taught through the DAN! training

process, that doesn't mean that they can't learn something new from

us parents.

If you do your homework (especially from this list) and compare it to

some of the other lists, I think you are likely to opt for the " low

and slow " method as well.

I would not presume to *tell* anyone how to treat their child, but I

for 1 feel that not only is the method advocated on this site

intrinsically safer, from what I have read comparing the side affects

and success/trouble stories the " Andy " protocol is the method I

choose.

Well, how was that for an un-prompted soap box speach .. :-)

Neil

> >

> > Welcome to the list. Many here feel the DAN protocol is unsafe.

> Please read the FAQs of this list about Andy Cutler's protocol.

> Many here have chosen to do chelation on their own without a doctor.

> > S S

> >

> > --- On Sat 11/12, el_3$for@ < el_3sfora@y... > wrote

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I need your help, I am Marwan`s mother from Egypt and I need to

> recommend me GREAT DAN doctor or Center follow the DAN protocol in

> chelation & can handle with international patient ,

> >

> > And with your experience with DAN dr. what do I have to expect in

> the first visit, will he ask me to repeat the Lab tests? Do I have

> to stay if he repeats it until return back and then back to the Dr.

> again and know the situation, medications, etc…?

> >

> > I phoned Dr. Bradstreet center and they are not take new patients

> for now and they have big waiting list and will start to call them

> from March( too much waiting)and I have limited time ,

> >

> > And I phoned also Dr. Neubrander and he is not accepting

> international patients because of problems in medications and

> customs.

> >

> > Any information is highly appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks in advance.

> >

> > Hanan

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide

> with voicemail

> >

November 18, 2005

Hi Hanan,

from your post I gathered that you're located in Egypt. I will

assume that that is the case, if not you can correct me later.

You do have the option to go with chelation on your own, gathering

information from this and other lists and the Internet in general.

But a) you may or may not have the time and the resources to do

that., chelation is only one part of autism treatment, and c)you

will eventually need someone to prescribe chelators and order tests.

I agree with the comments made about how some DAN! doctors can

actually cause harm, because they don't know what they're doing.

Listmates share with you the negative experiences that they ort

someone they know had with blindly following some dcotor's

suggestions abouyt autism treatment. And that's good to know. The

truth is, almost all maintstream doctors and many DAN! doctors know

little about autism and its treatment.

However, warning about the dangers of *some* DAN! doctors doesn't

guarantee that going solo will make the chelation process, and more

generally the treatment of autism, safer and better. Therefore, it

is essential to look for good DAN! doctors, as you are wisely doing.

It will at the least help you if a DAN! doctor from the U.S.

consults with your physician in Egypt (if you have one, and I

checked but couldn't find a DAN! practitioner in Cairo), so you may

be able get easier and faster access to treatment and supplements

with the help of a local professional.

Some of the reputable DAN! doctors in the U.S. are (in addition to

Neubrander and Bradstreet) Jacquelyn McCandless, Amy Yasko,

Cave, Jerry Kartzinel, Levinson, Baptist,...

well, there are more, why don't I refer you to the Autism Research

Institute's (ARI) physician referral site where you may be able to

find doctors of foreign background as well who amy be able to help

with additional complications of trying to treat autism from outside

the U.S:

http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari/dan/dan.htm

There are also flexible DAN! doctors who would go along with what's

comfortable for you (provided that you do your own research and

don't trust everything that comes out of the doc's mouth) and who

would let you follow the protocol of your choice, like Andy Cutler's

protocol on this list.

I've been chelating and treating my child without a good DAN! doctor

for two years, but that's because there aren't any good DAN! doctors

where I live. But that doesn't stop me from looking for someone I

can consult with on a regular basis who has been to medical school

or has a knowledge of chemistry in addition to being able to look at

autism treatment from outside the box.

Hope this helps.

Beti

> > >

> > > Welcome to the list. Many here feel the DAN protocol is

unsafe.

> > Please read the FAQs of this list about Andy Cutler's protocol.

> > Many here have chosen to do chelation on their own without a

doctor.

> > > S S

> > >

> > > --- On Sat 11/12, el_3$for@ < el_3sfora@y... > wrote

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I need your help, I am Marwan`s mother from Egypt and I need

to

> > recommend me GREAT DAN doctor or Center follow the DAN protocol

in

> > chelation & can handle with international patient ,

> > >

> > > And with your experience with DAN dr. what do I have to expect

in

> > the first visit, will he ask me to repeat the Lab tests? Do I

have

> > to stay if he repeats it until return back and then back to the

Dr.

> > again and know the situation, medications, etc…?

> > >

> > > I phoned Dr. Bradstreet center and they are not take new

patients

> > for now and they have big waiting list and will start to call

them

> > from March( too much waiting)and I have limited time ,

> > >

> > > And I phoned also Dr. Neubrander and he is not accepting

> > international patients because of problems in medications and

> > customs.

> > >

> > > Any information is highly appreciated.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> > > Hanan

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling

worldwide

> > with voicemail

> > >

November 18, 2005

Here is the thing I always come back to when this question comes up. Why should

you pay a dr to educate him/her on how to do chelation properly?

Uhhhh.....shouldn't they know what they are doing?

This would be as preposterous as someone coming to see me for counseling and me

asking them to do the therapy while they were paying me.......for WHAT? Nice

work if you can get it, but I hold myself out as a professional, charge a

handsome sum, and am supposed to have some reasonable idea of what I am doing.

And I can't know everything, but that doesn't excuse me from having to find out

if I run across something I am not familiar with.

We saw a dan! dr early on but didn't see the point in continuing as we had a

regular dr who would run any test we wanted and didn't charge $350.00 a hour to

sit with us when she didn't know as much as we did.

If it makes you feel better to have a DAN! dr, have one, its your money and

noone should tell you how to spend it. But in the end the dr is not going to

come to your home and get up at night with your kid to give the chelator, you

are.

[ ] Re: Help me find good DAN dr./protocol

I would like to chime in here.

I don't want to get in the habit of arbitrarily bashing DAN! doctors

on this site, I think we should at least give them the benefit of the

doubt.

I think *most* DAN! doctors are willing to be flexible regarding

chelation protocol if asked. (firmly if necessary)

It seems that many DAN! doctors likely advocate some version of

protocol that we on this board feel is un-necessarily prone to

negative effects due to the infrequent timing and sometimes quite

high dosing.

I choose to believe that like their traditional medicine counterparts

they are doing what they have been taught through the DAN! training

process, that doesn't mean that they can't learn something new from

us parents.

If you do your homework (especially from this list) and compare it to

some of the other lists, I think you are likely to opt for the " low

and slow " method as well.

I would not presume to *tell* anyone how to treat their child, but I

for 1 feel that not only is the method advocated on this site

intrinsically safer, from what I have read comparing the side affects

and success/trouble stories the " Andy " protocol is the method I

choose.

Well, how was that for an un-prompted soap box speach .. :-)

Neil

> >

> > Welcome to the list. Many here feel the DAN protocol is unsafe.

> Please read the FAQs of this list about Andy Cutler's protocol.

> Many here have chosen to do chelation on their own without a doctor.

> > S S

> >

> > --- On Sat 11/12, el_3$for@ < el_3sfora@y... > wrote

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I need your help, I am Marwan`s mother from Egypt and I need to

> recommend me GREAT DAN doctor or Center follow the DAN protocol in

> chelation & can handle with international patient ,

> >

> > And with your experience with DAN dr. what do I have to expect in

> the first visit, will he ask me to repeat the Lab tests? Do I have

> to stay if he repeats it until return back and then back to the Dr.

> again and know the situation, medications, etc.?

> >

> > I phoned Dr. Bradstreet center and they are not take new patients

> for now and they have big waiting list and will start to call them

> from March( too much waiting)and I have limited time ,

> >

> > And I phoned also Dr. Neubrander and he is not accepting

> international patients because of problems in medications and

> customs.

> >

> > Any information is highly appreciated.

> >

> > Thanks in advance.

> >

> > Hanan

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide

> with voicemail

> >

November 18, 2005

, you're absolutely right. It IS preposterous to educate a

doctor on chelation and other biomedical stuff AND pay for it. I

can't believe we find ourselves in crappy situations like that. Yet

another unpleasant peculiarity of autism if you ask me :-(.

If you can find a regular doctor who doesn't look at you like you

have a third eye on your forehead when you talk about the stuff we

are talking about here AND if you can get your supplies and tests

without a prescription AND if you trust your own knowledge about

these things AND/OR you don't have health insurance, then yes,

keeping your money in your pocket is the rational thing to do.

But, it makes me EXTREMELY nervous, when the doctor I have to work

with says " okay " to almost everything I ask for. Well, I guess in

practice we've survived pretty well so far, but part of me still is

yearning for consultation (if not for someone to tell me what to do)

with someone who knows what they're doing and who can physically see

and examine my child.

I've just read Dr. McCandless's BioChat notes and learned for

example that I should have stopped chelating on the days when my son

was constipated. Luckily he didn't go without pooping for more than

two days, and luckily he's no longer having that problem, but

despite the fact that I intrinsically knew that he excretes that

junk mainly through poop (DMPS), I nonetheless thought I shouldn't

interrupt chelation under any circumstance other than high fever or

something.

It takes a long time for us parents to educate ourselves, and

there's no getting around it. But especially for someone who's just

started chelation and biomedical treatment, a good doctor's

supervision of the process seems to me to be essential, if they can

have access to one of course. Later, when and if their knowledge

surpasses their doctor's, they can do whatever. After two years of

reading about biomedical interventions and one year of trying to

understand the best way to chelate, I still don't trust myself fully

and am dying to have someone like McCandless and so on to SEE my son

(I'm waiting for Jerry Kartzinel to set up shop here, hopefully

soon). But after knowing what I know about " low and slow " thanks to

this list, you bet I won't be a passive participant in the doctor-

patient relationship (-:

Beti

> > >

> > > Welcome to the list. Many here feel the DAN protocol is

unsafe.

> > Please read the FAQs of this list about Andy Cutler's

protocol.

> > Many here have chosen to do chelation on their own without a

doctor.

> > > S S

> > >

> > > --- On Sat 11/12, el_3$for@ < el_3sfora@y... > wrote

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I need your help, I am Marwan`s mother from Egypt and I need

to

> > recommend me GREAT DAN doctor or Center follow the DAN

protocol in

> > chelation & can handle with international patient ,

> > >

> > > And with your experience with DAN dr. what do I have to

expect in

> > the first visit, will he ask me to repeat the Lab tests? Do I

have

> > to stay if he repeats it until return back and then back to

the Dr.

> > again and know the situation, medications, etc.?

> > >

> > > I phoned Dr. Bradstreet center and they are not take new

patients

> > for now and they have big waiting list and will start to call

them

> > from March( too much waiting)and I have limited time ,

> > >

> > > And I phoned also Dr. Neubrander and he is not accepting

> > international patients because of problems in medications and

> > customs.

> > >

> > > Any information is highly appreciated.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance.

> > >

> > > Hanan

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling

worldwide

> > with voicemail

> > >

November 18, 2005

In the US some chelators are available without prescription. I don't know if

that's the case in Egypt or not.

S S