Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hi Michele, no, no, let me clarify: there is good science behind ABA and concentrated guidance (regarding outcomes). The idea that stims may be useless neural connections that may be deactivated by lack of their use over time, that's my thinking, lol, I know of no science behind it. But that doesn't mean there aren't any studies. Many behaviorists, however, do think of intensive training in those terms, even though they don't couch it in terms of pruning. It's something I haven't researched, the idea just makes sense to me and I *try* to apply it in daily life (I try to compete with my son's stims all the time, so he'd prefer me over them--not always lucky though, but am trying and trying like an energizer bunny). However, the " neural pruning " concept is not mine of course and I will post references in a little while about that. Sorry if I wasn't clear before. Beti > > >>, one of the central premises of intensive ABA treatment or > treatments like concentrated guidance or even neurofeedback therapy > is based on the idea of preventing useless neural pathways from > being used frequently and thereby letting them die out over time, > while stimulating useful connections by discrete trials. Of course, > the earlier in life this is done, the easier. > > >>I don't want to get into the controversy surrounding these treatment > options (even though there's is good science behind them), but the > idea is simple: if you stop using a neural connection, it will die > out (be pruned) eventually. If you keep using it, it will be active. > > ----- > Beti, > I also don't want to start any controversy. But I am very interested in what > you are saying. Do you know where I could find some of the science behind > this idea that you speak of? I have never used ABA so I had not heard this > idea before. > > Thanks, > > -- > Michele in Limbo (formerly in California) > > talithamichele@... > > > Visit Michele's World! > http://www.califmichele.com > > " Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. " > -- Albert Einstein > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 >>However, the " neural pruning " concept is not mine of course and I will post references in a little while about that. >>Sorry if I wasn't clear before. ----- No apologies necessary. :-) I am not sure if I should toss out my thoughts on this or not. But I do have specific reasons for being interested in whatever hard data related to this idea that you can point me in the direction of. So THANKS! -- Michele in Limbo (formerly in California) talithamichele@... Visit Michele's World! http://www.califmichele.com " Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Michele, I first herad of neural pruning in 's " Not Even Wrong, " under the chapter where he discusses synaesthesia. He mentions autopsy measurements (sorry) conducted on autistic brains having detected excess of neurons, making the autistic brain heavier than neurotypical brain. (This whole large, heavy brain measured by head circumference doesn't for example fit my child, as his head measurements were always on the smaller end of the normal. That study, as far as I know, used a very small sample). Anyway, Bruer's " The Myth of the First Three Years " apparently discusses how overstimulation and retention of certain neural connections (unpruned) can interfere with logical thought and communcation. But he also warns about interfering with the natural process of pruning. But since that natural process is somehow different or interrupted in the autistic brain, what do we do? On the other hand, some synaesthetes, those who have disparate senses, can also be great talents, like Kandinsky (but I digress--I have a great paper title for synaesthesia, if you're interested. Synaesthesia is directly related to neural pruning, as the latter is treated as the cause of the former) There seem to be tons of scientific studies on this (go to Google, then go to Scholar) if you type " neural pruning and autism. " There's so much material, I would't know which ones you'd be interested in. I haven't read anything academic about this myself, but the whole thing is fascinating. I believe there are fMRI studies about this too. Beti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Thanks. I have heard of Synaesthesia and would be interested in what you are referring to. My thought is that if there are brain differences, they aren't necessarily " pathological " but a child who is fundamentally different would fail to fit into norms of expected development, and that could be extremely problematic even if it is not inherently a " defect " . I think after you have accounted for real medical issues -- which I believe these kids have and that is why I am here -- and treated for that, there are still brain differences with these kids. So I am interested in this stuff -- if only I had 30 or 40 hours in the day and all that. SIGH. I feel I am so extremly behind on an never-ending To-Do list. But, go ahead, dump another item on my list. :-D -- Michele in Limbo (formerly in California) talithamichele@... Visit Michele's World! http://www.califmichele.com " Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 I think after you have accounted > for real medical issues -- which I believe these kids have and that is why I > am here -- and treated for that, there are still brain differences with > these kids. I tend to think so too. I'll never forget a passage towards the of Karyn Seroussi's " Unraveling the Mystery of Autism... " : Her son is in the kitchen, his eyes are closed. Karyn calls him " Miles! " No answer. Calls again " Miles! " no answer. She starts getting worried, because this is happening after the " recovery " with the diet. But then Miles opens his eyes and tells her that sounds make patterns in his head and that he can see the patterns when he closes his eyes. Now that's something to celebrate!! Which directly brings us to synaesthesia. The article is from the book by Cytowic's " The Man Who Tasted Shapes. " The site for the article is http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-10-cytowic.html Beti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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