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My son's copper levels were lowered to the normal range (hair test

and serum) within 4 months by using zinc and molybdenum. I used

only 250 mcg molybdenum (daily) and about 45 mgs zinc citrate

(daily).

Pam

> >

> > How do we lower copper?

>

> Hi Hope,

>

> See:

>

> http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html

>

> W.

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

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  • 2 years later...

>

> I have been doing some reading of Andy Cutler's recommendations and

> since our son's hair elements test confirmed high copper, we are going

> to need to reduce that before even considering chelation. One problem

> is that we are probably not going to be able to avoid the foods that

> contain copper, because his diet is already so limited because of many

> food allergies as well as going GF/CF and corn free. Nuts and green

> leafy veggies are a must, he loves seafood and garlic is a big part of

> our diets. So I was considering giving trying taurine, glycine,

> lecithen/phosphatidycholine or milk thistle. Does anyone recommend

> one over the others and why?

Use them all, plus zinc and molybdenum. Search archives using

www.onibasu.com for posts from Andy on the topic.

How long do these protocols have to

> because generally? Do I complete this THEN try chelating with

> DMSA....?

As long as he has no amalgam fillings, you can start chelating with

DMSA. Be sure to give him the proper support supplements, proper

protocol, and start at the lowest end of the dose range. Whether or

not ALA chelation needs to be restricted depends on how high the

copper is. See Andy's Hair Test Interpretation book.

Have I missed anything?

>

You need Andy's " Hair Test Interpretation " book (see links section).

There is so much in there that you would need to read, it's impossible

to condense.

J

>

>

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Zinc will compete with copper, so give plenty of it. ALA will retain both

zinc and copper though, so once you start adding ALA make sure to not overdo

the zinc.

Seafood is often contaminated with mercury and arsenic. We had to eliminate

it from our house after my 4yo's hair test came back really high in arsenic

and high in mercury. He ate seafood once a week. Shellfish and bottom

feeders are especially bad as are predatory fish. Seaweeds often contain

arsenic too - some countries banned seaweeds from Japan because of arsenic

contamination.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:02 PM, jessicagalligani <

jessicagalligani@...> wrote:

> I have been doing some reading of Andy Cutler's recommendations and

> since our son's hair elements test confirmed high copper, we are going

> to need to reduce that before even considering chelation. One problem

> is that we are probably not going to be able to avoid the foods that

> contain copper, because his diet is already so limited because of many

> food allergies as well as going GF/CF and corn free. Nuts and green

> leafy veggies are a must, he loves seafood and garlic is a big part of

> our diets. So I was considering giving trying taurine, glycine,

> lecithen/phosphatidycholine or milk thistle. Does anyone recommend

> one over the others and why? How long do these protocols have to

> because generally? Do I complete this THEN try chelating with

> DMSA....? Have I missed anything?

>

>

>

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I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the

first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is

more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, gluten,

casein and corn....of the things he CAN eat, there are so many that

effect the elements he either needs or should avoid. I feel like by

avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need

another. Am I making any sense? I mean, how much of this elemental

imbalance can be CAUSED by the diets our kids need? Where do we

strike that healthy balance? And is that possible when so many things

even need to be avoided? (sigh) Just venting, sorry...

>

> > I have been doing some reading of Andy Cutler's recommendations and

> > since our son's hair elements test confirmed high copper, we are going

> > to need to reduce that before even considering chelation. One problem

> > is that we are probably not going to be able to avoid the foods that

> > contain copper, because his diet is already so limited because of many

> > food allergies as well as going GF/CF and corn free. Nuts and green

> > leafy veggies are a must, he loves seafood and garlic is a big part of

> > our diets. So I was considering giving trying taurine, glycine,

> > lecithen/phosphatidycholine or milk thistle. Does anyone recommend

> > one over the others and why? How long do these protocols have to

> > because generally? Do I complete this THEN try chelating with

> > DMSA....? Have I missed anything?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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>

> I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the

> first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is

> more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, gluten,

> casein and corn....

You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back

the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP

Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods,

which might help with your dilemma.

>>I feel like by

> avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need

> another. Am I making any sense?

Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would

recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which

ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes.

Dana

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how do you know if copper is an issue and not mercury? thanks

On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:10 AM, danasview wrote:

>

> >

> > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the

> > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is

> > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods,

> gluten,

> > casein and corn....

>

> You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back

> the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP

> Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods,

> which might help with your dilemma.

>

> >>I feel like by

> > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need

> > another. Am I making any sense?

>

> Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would

> recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which

> ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes.

>

> Dana

>

>

>

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just figured i would share as well :

i learned a fair amount about Cu recently ( and Hg too)

ask me questions ill try to answer (no guarentee :> )

we also have or had high copper

how highis your Cu level ?

how was it measured ?

we use 150mcg 3 times per day of Mo

15mg 3 x per day od Zn

nilk thystle 140mg silimarin 3 x per day with meals

physpatydlecholine ( lecithin ) 2 x per day

and taurine 500mg 2 x perday

seems like we have got good results over the past few months

definitely we saw some healing regression type stuff when i though

she was dumping Cu but better skills after for sure more caring and

loving etc

we are now doing dmsa using ac protocol ( tried one round of dmsa +

ala

seemed like dose was too high or we started too early 3rd round it was

a very difficult round and took about a week to bounce back, scary)

anyhow i will try to update here more details soon

thanks to the kink people here my high functioning kiddo is much

higher

functioning now , starting to see normal

-sophie

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We had a hair elements test done. His Copper is at 25ug/g when normal

is 11-18. He is in the lower middle of the yellow box.

We know we will need to go down the road of chelating with DMSA, but I

am so frightened of not knowing enough to get going. And what about

permanent regression, is that possible? I also dread having to wake

at night all night to dose, because we JUST got through night wakings

for feedings with our 7 month old, so I am loving sleeping, lol. We

will do what we have to do though, it's just rough to get started on

such big and scary changes. Thank you for hsaring your story and I

would love to stay updated!

>

> just figured i would share as well :

> i learned a fair amount about Cu recently ( and Hg too)

> ask me questions ill try to answer (no guarentee :> )

>

> we also have or had high copper

> how highis your Cu level ?

> how was it measured ?

>

> we use 150mcg 3 times per day of Mo

> 15mg 3 x per day od Zn

>

> nilk thystle 140mg silimarin 3 x per day with meals

> physpatydlecholine ( lecithin ) 2 x per day

> and taurine 500mg 2 x perday

>

> seems like we have got good results over the past few months

> definitely we saw some healing regression type stuff when i though

> she was dumping Cu but better skills after for sure more caring and

> loving etc

>

> we are now doing dmsa using ac protocol ( tried one round of dmsa +

> ala

> seemed like dose was too high or we started too early 3rd round it was

> a very difficult round and took about a week to bounce back, scary)

>

> anyhow i will try to update here more details soon

> thanks to the kink people here my high functioning kiddo is much

> higher

> functioning now , starting to see normal

>

> -sophie

>

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your Cu aint that bad we were at 64 with 18 being high end of range

we use hni enzymes no gf/cf/sf she would eat anything if we did (HA!)

i only saw good with dmsa, some slight increase in symptoms on round

but no biggie and then good stuff after

we need to start round 5

after round 2 she passed for normal on vacation against her cousin

4.5 years old and 0.5 yrs older than my daughter

we still have a ways to go i need to get on with the ala

as long as they can swallow pills it aint that bad

mine gets the pill at night ( i tried to shoot liquid with a syring

but turned out better to do the pills) i dont think she really wakes

up when i do it

good luck and happy trails

-dsophie

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He swallows pills like a champ! We won't have a problem. I am just

worried that because chelation lowers minerals, some of his low level

elements might suffer more, like calcium, potassium and molybdenum...

>

> your Cu aint that bad we were at 64 with 18 being high end of range

>

> we use hni enzymes no gf/cf/sf she would eat anything if we did (HA!)

>

> i only saw good with dmsa, some slight increase in symptoms on round

> but no biggie and then good stuff after

>

> we need to start round 5

>

> after round 2 she passed for normal on vacation against her cousin

> 4.5 years old and 0.5 yrs older than my daughter

>

> we still have a ways to go i need to get on with the ala

>

> as long as they can swallow pills it aint that bad

> mine gets the pill at night ( i tried to shoot liquid with a syring

> but turned out better to do the pills) i dont think she really wakes

> up when i do it

>

> good luck and happy trails

>

> -dsophie

>

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oh yes

i found Cu supplimented in dd s soy milk, power bar, breakfast food

the stuff is every where so look out for it an eliminate its

also if you are concerned with Cu in the water supply try the trick

andy reccommended : pour amonia into the water, if it turns blue you

may have a problem if not you likely do not have a problem

again i dont think your copper is so high, at lease compared to me

of course the only way to see if it is a main contributor to symptoms

is to follow the Cu protocol without changing anything else, thats what

i did and i can say it did make a big difference for me

it takes 2 weeks - 2 months to bring the levels down -- as always

clinical response takes presedence over all -- that is how does the

patient respond to treatment dictates how to proceede with the treatment

-sophie

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I don't think it's supplemented in anything he has currently, not even

his multi vits, but maybe it's naturally in something he is eating...

What is the Copper protocol? Where can I find that, in the files section?

>

> oh yes

> i found Cu supplimented in dd s soy milk, power bar, breakfast food

> the stuff is every where so look out for it an eliminate its

>

> also if you are concerned with Cu in the water supply try the trick

> andy reccommended : pour amonia into the water, if it turns blue you

> may have a problem if not you likely do not have a problem

>

> again i dont think your copper is so high, at lease compared to me

> of course the only way to see if it is a main contributor to symptoms

> is to follow the Cu protocol without changing anything else, thats what

> i did and i can say it did make a big difference for me

> it takes 2 weeks - 2 months to bring the levels down -- as always

> clinical response takes presedence over all -- that is how does the

> patient respond to treatment dictates how to proceede with the treatment

>

> -sophie

>

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I would like to know the answer to this too, but I THINK it would show

in our hair test as all other elements being normal with just high

copper. In our case, most of his elements are skewed in addition to

having high copper.

> > >

> > > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the

> > > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is

> > > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods,

> > gluten,

> > > casein and corn....

> >

> > You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back

> > the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP

> > Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods,

> > which might help with your dilemma.

> >

> > >>I feel like by

> > > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need

> > > another. Am I making any sense?

> >

> > Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would

> > recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which

> > ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes.

> >

> > Dana

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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Dana,

I have been SO afraid to try that. I feel like we've come so far and

testing the foods is a scary thought. He got a hold of one small baby

cereal puff made with wheat one day and for three days after that, he

was a mess, but of course, I didn't give him the AFP with it either.

We have tried rice flour in something and he did ok with that so we

know he could handle that on occasion, but nothing else yet. What do

you recommend, I am terrified of the possibilities!!

> >

> > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the

> > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is

> > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, gluten,

> > casein and corn....

>

>

> You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back

> the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP

> Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods,

> which might help with your dilemma.

>

>

> >>I feel like by

> > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need

> > another. Am I making any sense?

>

>

> Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would

> recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which

> ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes.

>

> Dana

>

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>>>I would like to know the answer to this too, but I THINK it would

show in our hair test as all other elements being normal with just high

copper. In our case, most of his elements are skewed in addition to

having high copper.<<<

i believe the Cu signal is ok even is there are skewed minerals

obviously if you have skewed minereals, i guess you meet counting rules

means you are likely to have Hg issue

here is my opinion... if you have high Cu you should treat it with the

standard stuff Mo, Zn, increase bile flow with mk thystle, glycine,

taurine, etc. if you have a Cu issue you will see improved behavior in

2 weeks to 2 months

if you have Hg problem, and you take dmsa or ala you have more symptoms

on round and you see noticable improvement soon

am i missing somehting ?

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> What is the Copper protocol? Where can I find that, in the files

section?

>

you can search but as i said in my first response :

we use 150mcg 3 times per day of Mo

15mg 3 x per day od Zn

nilk thystle 140mg silimarin 3 x per day with meals

physpatydlecholine ( lecithin ) 2 x per day

and taurine 500mg 2 x perday

my kid is 46 lbs 4yrs old we saw results soon after starting this

protocol

the moly was a big one i believe

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I just wrote re my experiences with copper in amalgams, but Google for " copper

poisoning symptoms. "   These are similar to mercury, but you can tell the

differences, or in most cases we're dealing with a somewhat different class of

symptoms from the interaction of both Hg and Cu. The following link confirms a

lot from my own experience or observations that I didn't go into in the earlier

post.  Alan Foos

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

>

> >

> > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the

> > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is

> > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods,

> gluten,

> > casein and corn....

>

> You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back

> the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP

> Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods,

> which might help with your dilemma.

>

> >>I feel like by

> > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need

> > another. Am I making any sense?

>

> Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would

> recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which

> ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes.

>

> Dana

>

>

>

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> Dana,

> I have been SO afraid to try that. I feel like we've come so far and

> testing the foods is a scary thought. He got a hold of one small baby

> cereal puff made with wheat one day and for three days after that, he

> was a mess, but of course, I didn't give him the AFP with it either.

> We have tried rice flour in something and he did ok with that so we

> know he could handle that on occasion, but nothing else yet. What do

> you recommend, I am terrified of the possibilities!!

Well, a lot depends on what would be your child's reaction. I agree

that if the reaction is severe, it would be much more of a decision.

For my son, he just became more lost and spacy, more giggly, etc. No

severe physical or behavioral issues. Plus for my son, he tolerated

no foods at all, so I had to start somewhere with the enzymes, because

I honestly was unable to feed him without giving him something not

tolerated. So for my son, it was not as scary as it would be for

another child.

One thing you can do, is keep a bottle of enzymes with you at all

times. There will come a time when your child will eat something he

should not have eaten. Then *immediately* give him an enzyme, and see

what happens [if anything]. That might be a good way to test this.

Dana

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