Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 How do we lower copper? Thanks, Hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 > > How do we lower copper? Hi Hope, See: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Hi, we were told to use lots of zinc - and it's working but taking a long time. We use 3 doses per day of metagenics zinc drink. weinert56 <weinert@...> wrote: > > How do we lower copper? Hi Hope, See: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html W. ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 My son's copper levels were lowered to the normal range (hair test and serum) within 4 months by using zinc and molybdenum. I used only 250 mcg molybdenum (daily) and about 45 mgs zinc citrate (daily). Pam > > > > How do we lower copper? > > Hi Hope, > > See: > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html > > W. > > > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 > > > > How do we lower copper? > > Hi Hope, > > See: > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html > > W. >Molybednum will lower copper. Rae > > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 > > I have been doing some reading of Andy Cutler's recommendations and > since our son's hair elements test confirmed high copper, we are going > to need to reduce that before even considering chelation. One problem > is that we are probably not going to be able to avoid the foods that > contain copper, because his diet is already so limited because of many > food allergies as well as going GF/CF and corn free. Nuts and green > leafy veggies are a must, he loves seafood and garlic is a big part of > our diets. So I was considering giving trying taurine, glycine, > lecithen/phosphatidycholine or milk thistle. Does anyone recommend > one over the others and why? Use them all, plus zinc and molybdenum. Search archives using www.onibasu.com for posts from Andy on the topic. How long do these protocols have to > because generally? Do I complete this THEN try chelating with > DMSA....? As long as he has no amalgam fillings, you can start chelating with DMSA. Be sure to give him the proper support supplements, proper protocol, and start at the lowest end of the dose range. Whether or not ALA chelation needs to be restricted depends on how high the copper is. See Andy's Hair Test Interpretation book. Have I missed anything? > You need Andy's " Hair Test Interpretation " book (see links section). There is so much in there that you would need to read, it's impossible to condense. J > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Zinc will compete with copper, so give plenty of it. ALA will retain both zinc and copper though, so once you start adding ALA make sure to not overdo the zinc. Seafood is often contaminated with mercury and arsenic. We had to eliminate it from our house after my 4yo's hair test came back really high in arsenic and high in mercury. He ate seafood once a week. Shellfish and bottom feeders are especially bad as are predatory fish. Seaweeds often contain arsenic too - some countries banned seaweeds from Japan because of arsenic contamination. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:02 PM, jessicagalligani < jessicagalligani@...> wrote: > I have been doing some reading of Andy Cutler's recommendations and > since our son's hair elements test confirmed high copper, we are going > to need to reduce that before even considering chelation. One problem > is that we are probably not going to be able to avoid the foods that > contain copper, because his diet is already so limited because of many > food allergies as well as going GF/CF and corn free. Nuts and green > leafy veggies are a must, he loves seafood and garlic is a big part of > our diets. So I was considering giving trying taurine, glycine, > lecithen/phosphatidycholine or milk thistle. Does anyone recommend > one over the others and why? How long do these protocols have to > because generally? Do I complete this THEN try chelating with > DMSA....? Have I missed anything? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, gluten, casein and corn....of the things he CAN eat, there are so many that effect the elements he either needs or should avoid. I feel like by avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need another. Am I making any sense? I mean, how much of this elemental imbalance can be CAUSED by the diets our kids need? Where do we strike that healthy balance? And is that possible when so many things even need to be avoided? (sigh) Just venting, sorry... > > > I have been doing some reading of Andy Cutler's recommendations and > > since our son's hair elements test confirmed high copper, we are going > > to need to reduce that before even considering chelation. One problem > > is that we are probably not going to be able to avoid the foods that > > contain copper, because his diet is already so limited because of many > > food allergies as well as going GF/CF and corn free. Nuts and green > > leafy veggies are a must, he loves seafood and garlic is a big part of > > our diets. So I was considering giving trying taurine, glycine, > > lecithen/phosphatidycholine or milk thistle. Does anyone recommend > > one over the others and why? How long do these protocols have to > > because generally? Do I complete this THEN try chelating with > > DMSA....? Have I missed anything? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 > > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, gluten, > casein and corn.... You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods, which might help with your dilemma. >>I feel like by > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need > another. Am I making any sense? Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 how do you know if copper is an issue and not mercury? thanks On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:10 AM, danasview wrote: > > > > > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the > > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is > > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, > gluten, > > casein and corn.... > > You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back > the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP > Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods, > which might help with your dilemma. > > >>I feel like by > > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need > > another. Am I making any sense? > > Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would > recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which > ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes. > > Dana > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 just figured i would share as well : i learned a fair amount about Cu recently ( and Hg too) ask me questions ill try to answer (no guarentee :> ) we also have or had high copper how highis your Cu level ? how was it measured ? we use 150mcg 3 times per day of Mo 15mg 3 x per day od Zn nilk thystle 140mg silimarin 3 x per day with meals physpatydlecholine ( lecithin ) 2 x per day and taurine 500mg 2 x perday seems like we have got good results over the past few months definitely we saw some healing regression type stuff when i though she was dumping Cu but better skills after for sure more caring and loving etc we are now doing dmsa using ac protocol ( tried one round of dmsa + ala seemed like dose was too high or we started too early 3rd round it was a very difficult round and took about a week to bounce back, scary) anyhow i will try to update here more details soon thanks to the kink people here my high functioning kiddo is much higher functioning now , starting to see normal -sophie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 when i say kink i mean kind : > -sophie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 We had a hair elements test done. His Copper is at 25ug/g when normal is 11-18. He is in the lower middle of the yellow box. We know we will need to go down the road of chelating with DMSA, but I am so frightened of not knowing enough to get going. And what about permanent regression, is that possible? I also dread having to wake at night all night to dose, because we JUST got through night wakings for feedings with our 7 month old, so I am loving sleeping, lol. We will do what we have to do though, it's just rough to get started on such big and scary changes. Thank you for hsaring your story and I would love to stay updated! > > just figured i would share as well : > i learned a fair amount about Cu recently ( and Hg too) > ask me questions ill try to answer (no guarentee :> ) > > we also have or had high copper > how highis your Cu level ? > how was it measured ? > > we use 150mcg 3 times per day of Mo > 15mg 3 x per day od Zn > > nilk thystle 140mg silimarin 3 x per day with meals > physpatydlecholine ( lecithin ) 2 x per day > and taurine 500mg 2 x perday > > seems like we have got good results over the past few months > definitely we saw some healing regression type stuff when i though > she was dumping Cu but better skills after for sure more caring and > loving etc > > we are now doing dmsa using ac protocol ( tried one round of dmsa + > ala > seemed like dose was too high or we started too early 3rd round it was > a very difficult round and took about a week to bounce back, scary) > > anyhow i will try to update here more details soon > thanks to the kink people here my high functioning kiddo is much > higher > functioning now , starting to see normal > > -sophie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 your Cu aint that bad we were at 64 with 18 being high end of range we use hni enzymes no gf/cf/sf she would eat anything if we did (HA!) i only saw good with dmsa, some slight increase in symptoms on round but no biggie and then good stuff after we need to start round 5 after round 2 she passed for normal on vacation against her cousin 4.5 years old and 0.5 yrs older than my daughter we still have a ways to go i need to get on with the ala as long as they can swallow pills it aint that bad mine gets the pill at night ( i tried to shoot liquid with a syring but turned out better to do the pills) i dont think she really wakes up when i do it good luck and happy trails -dsophie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 He swallows pills like a champ! We won't have a problem. I am just worried that because chelation lowers minerals, some of his low level elements might suffer more, like calcium, potassium and molybdenum... > > your Cu aint that bad we were at 64 with 18 being high end of range > > we use hni enzymes no gf/cf/sf she would eat anything if we did (HA!) > > i only saw good with dmsa, some slight increase in symptoms on round > but no biggie and then good stuff after > > we need to start round 5 > > after round 2 she passed for normal on vacation against her cousin > 4.5 years old and 0.5 yrs older than my daughter > > we still have a ways to go i need to get on with the ala > > as long as they can swallow pills it aint that bad > mine gets the pill at night ( i tried to shoot liquid with a syring > but turned out better to do the pills) i dont think she really wakes > up when i do it > > good luck and happy trails > > -dsophie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 oh yes i found Cu supplimented in dd s soy milk, power bar, breakfast food the stuff is every where so look out for it an eliminate its also if you are concerned with Cu in the water supply try the trick andy reccommended : pour amonia into the water, if it turns blue you may have a problem if not you likely do not have a problem again i dont think your copper is so high, at lease compared to me of course the only way to see if it is a main contributor to symptoms is to follow the Cu protocol without changing anything else, thats what i did and i can say it did make a big difference for me it takes 2 weeks - 2 months to bring the levels down -- as always clinical response takes presedence over all -- that is how does the patient respond to treatment dictates how to proceede with the treatment -sophie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't think it's supplemented in anything he has currently, not even his multi vits, but maybe it's naturally in something he is eating... What is the Copper protocol? Where can I find that, in the files section? > > oh yes > i found Cu supplimented in dd s soy milk, power bar, breakfast food > the stuff is every where so look out for it an eliminate its > > also if you are concerned with Cu in the water supply try the trick > andy reccommended : pour amonia into the water, if it turns blue you > may have a problem if not you likely do not have a problem > > again i dont think your copper is so high, at lease compared to me > of course the only way to see if it is a main contributor to symptoms > is to follow the Cu protocol without changing anything else, thats what > i did and i can say it did make a big difference for me > it takes 2 weeks - 2 months to bring the levels down -- as always > clinical response takes presedence over all -- that is how does the > patient respond to treatment dictates how to proceede with the treatment > > -sophie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I would like to know the answer to this too, but I THINK it would show in our hair test as all other elements being normal with just high copper. In our case, most of his elements are skewed in addition to having high copper. > > > > > > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the > > > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is > > > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, > > gluten, > > > casein and corn.... > > > > You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back > > the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP > > Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods, > > which might help with your dilemma. > > > > >>I feel like by > > > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need > > > another. Am I making any sense? > > > > Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would > > recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which > > ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes. > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Dana, I have been SO afraid to try that. I feel like we've come so far and testing the foods is a scary thought. He got a hold of one small baby cereal puff made with wheat one day and for three days after that, he was a mess, but of course, I didn't give him the AFP with it either. We have tried rice flour in something and he did ok with that so we know he could handle that on occasion, but nothing else yet. What do you recommend, I am terrified of the possibilities!! > > > > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the > > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is > > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, gluten, > > casein and corn.... > > > You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back > the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP > Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods, > which might help with your dilemma. > > > >>I feel like by > > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need > > another. Am I making any sense? > > > Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would > recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which > ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes. > > Dana > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 >>>I would like to know the answer to this too, but I THINK it would show in our hair test as all other elements being normal with just high copper. In our case, most of his elements are skewed in addition to having high copper.<<< i believe the Cu signal is ok even is there are skewed minerals obviously if you have skewed minereals, i guess you meet counting rules means you are likely to have Hg issue here is my opinion... if you have high Cu you should treat it with the standard stuff Mo, Zn, increase bile flow with mk thystle, glycine, taurine, etc. if you have a Cu issue you will see improved behavior in 2 weeks to 2 months if you have Hg problem, and you take dmsa or ala you have more symptoms on round and you see noticable improvement soon am i missing somehting ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 > What is the Copper protocol? Where can I find that, in the files section? > you can search but as i said in my first response : we use 150mcg 3 times per day of Mo 15mg 3 x per day od Zn nilk thystle 140mg silimarin 3 x per day with meals physpatydlecholine ( lecithin ) 2 x per day and taurine 500mg 2 x perday my kid is 46 lbs 4yrs old we saw results soon after starting this protocol the moly was a big one i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I just wrote re my experiences with copper in amalgams, but Google for " copper poisoning symptoms. "  These are similar to mercury, but you can tell the differences, or in most cases we're dealing with a somewhat different class of symptoms from the interaction of both Hg and Cu. The following link confirms a lot from my own experience or observations that I didn't go into in the earlier post. Alan Foos http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm > > > > > I am really so frustrated by this whole thing, I'm sure I am not the > > first person though, ha ha ha. Where do I strike a balance, what is > > more important?? We have to avoid 23 common, every day foods, > gluten, > > casein and corn.... > > You also mentioned that you use enzymes. Have you tried adding back > the foods one at a time? When I added back wheat with HNI AFP > Peptizyde, my son improved. So you might be able to add back foods, > which might help with your dilemma. > > >>I feel like by > > avoiding things that might help one element, causes us to need > > another. Am I making any sense? > > Yes. This happens frequently, which is one of the reasons why I would > recommend you try adding back foods with the enzymes, to see which > ones your child might be able to eat with the enzymes. > > Dana > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 > Dana, > I have been SO afraid to try that. I feel like we've come so far and > testing the foods is a scary thought. He got a hold of one small baby > cereal puff made with wheat one day and for three days after that, he > was a mess, but of course, I didn't give him the AFP with it either. > We have tried rice flour in something and he did ok with that so we > know he could handle that on occasion, but nothing else yet. What do > you recommend, I am terrified of the possibilities!! Well, a lot depends on what would be your child's reaction. I agree that if the reaction is severe, it would be much more of a decision. For my son, he just became more lost and spacy, more giggly, etc. No severe physical or behavioral issues. Plus for my son, he tolerated no foods at all, so I had to start somewhere with the enzymes, because I honestly was unable to feed him without giving him something not tolerated. So for my son, it was not as scary as it would be for another child. One thing you can do, is keep a bottle of enzymes with you at all times. There will come a time when your child will eat something he should not have eaten. Then *immediately* give him an enzyme, and see what happens [if anything]. That might be a good way to test this. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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