RE: VALENTINA: Nasal M-B12 Spray side effect?

[Guest guest]

Valentina,

His Plasma Cysteine is 2.83 mg/dL (below the range of 3.10-3.90); his Plasma

Sulfate is 2.90 mg/dL (also below the range of 4.80-5.30) and his Reduced

Glutathione is 9 (way below the range as well of >= 32 mg/dL). Honestly, I

have not discussed these results with the doctor since we have not seen him

yet. We are due for an appointment on Feb. 6.

Would you or anyone would be able to explain a bit what these mean? What

book should I buy to learn the importance of these?

Thanks so much for bringing this up. There must be a correlation.

.

Re: [ ] Nasal M-B12 Spray side effect?

> My child seems to not be able to tolerate M-B12 (either shots or nasal

> spray).

Yes, I would stop it too. It doesn't sound like a good reaction.

Why are you trying nasal spray if he didn't react OK to the shots?

Maybe he doesn't need more B12.

You don't know his plasma homocysteine, do you?

Valentina

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Wow Valentina,

This is all extremely helpful. I have been chelating him for the past

TD-DMPS (1ML every 48hrs) for the past 5 months. I was considering ALA, but

I have been skeptical.

I am going to read your note again and download the graph and contact you

tomorrow again. I want to understand how too much M-B12 could overload the

body (if that is what could potentially be happening to my son). I am

giving him Kirkman Lab's Nu Thera - which is loaded with B6.

Thanks again for taking the time to write this. Have a good night.

.

Re: [ ] VALENTINA: Nasal M-B12 Spray side effect?

> His Plasma Cysteine is 2.83 mg/dL (below the range of 3.10-3.90); his

Plasma

> Sulfate is 2.90 mg/dL (also below the range of 4.80-5.30) and his Reduced

> Glutathione is 9 (way below the range as well of >= 32 mg/dL).

,

you might want to download that drawing I just uploaded in the files

section.

It's called folate.jpg.

Print that picture and take a few moment to analyze it. It's not very

complicated. Only at the beginning. Look at the Methionine - SAMe - SAH -

Homocysteine circle.

The way I understand it, it's like this:

Cysteine, Glutathione, Sulfate, Taurine, they all come from Methionine.

Another

source is food, but we will not talk about that just yet. When the body

needs

sulfur (Glutahione, Cysteine, etc) it takes it from Homocysteine. Instead of

allowing it to be remethylated into Methionine, it will be pushed on the

transulfuration pathway (which I am sorry I did not insist on in that

drawing,

but it will still help to understand what I mean). SAMe controls (more or

less)

where the homocysteine is going, what fate will it have - remethylation

(back to

methionine) or transulfuration (cysteine, glutathione, etc.). The main need

of

the body is methylation and preserving the 1-carbon units. When you give

more

B12 and folate, you kind of " force " the balance towards remethylation, even

if

you are low cysteine/sulfur. SAMe will direct the homocysteine towards the

transulfuration pathway only if there is lots of it (SAMe) around. When you

are

low in homocysteine to begin with (from lack of methionine in the diet or

malabsorption, or maybe the enzyme that transforms SAH into Homocysteine is

not

working properly), you are also low SAMe, which means that homocysteine will

not

be directed towards the transulfuration pathway. So you will have low

cysteine,

and all the other " sulfury things " that are made of it.

What you can do to kind of patch this is eat a lot of sulfur-rich foods. And

the

way I understand it this is the best thing you can do. It will help

enormously.

These foods will increase the cysteine and will allow your body to make the

other sulfury products it needs.

I don't know if you chelate or not, but if you don't yet, try ALA first.

Your

kid will become a different person in a few hours I still remember how my

son

reacted to ALA (he was also low-cysteine, just like your son).

Another thing I can recommend is Epsom salt baths. Very good for somebody

low in

sulfate. It also provides magnesium.

Also, try more B6 which will stimulate those enzymes in the transulfuration

pathway to produce cysteine from homocysteine.

I don't know how cleat this is (or not) but you can ask me more questions if

you

want. I will try to do a better job.

Valentina

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> His Plasma Cysteine is 2.83 mg/dL (below the range of 3.10-3.90); his Plasma

> Sulfate is 2.90 mg/dL (also below the range of 4.80-5.30) and his Reduced

> Glutathione is 9 (way below the range as well of >= 32 mg/dL).

,

you might want to download that drawing I just uploaded in the files section.

It's called folate.jpg.

Print that picture and take a few moment to analyze it. It's not very

complicated. Only at the beginning. Look at the Methionine - SAMe - SAH -

Homocysteine circle.

The way I understand it, it's like this:

Cysteine, Glutathione, Sulfate, Taurine, they all come from Methionine. Another

source is food, but we will not talk about that just yet. When the body needs

sulfur (Glutahione, Cysteine, etc) it takes it from Homocysteine. Instead of

allowing it to be remethylated into Methionine, it will be pushed on the

transulfuration pathway (which I am sorry I did not insist on in that drawing,

but it will still help to understand what I mean). SAMe controls (more or less)

where the homocysteine is going, what fate will it have - remethylation (back to

methionine) or transulfuration (cysteine, glutathione, etc.). The main need of

the body is methylation and preserving the 1-carbon units. When you give more

B12 and folate, you kind of " force " the balance towards remethylation, even if

you are low cysteine/sulfur. SAMe will direct the homocysteine towards the

transulfuration pathway only if there is lots of it (SAMe) around. When you are

low in homocysteine to begin with (from lack of methionine in the diet or

malabsorption, or maybe the enzyme that transforms SAH into Homocysteine is not

working properly), you are also low SAMe, which means that homocysteine will not

be directed towards the transulfuration pathway. So you will have low cysteine,

and all the other " sulfury things " that are made of it.

What you can do to kind of patch this is eat a lot of sulfur-rich foods. And the

way I understand it this is the best thing you can do. It will help enormously.

These foods will increase the cysteine and will allow your body to make the

other sulfury products it needs.

I don't know if you chelate or not, but if you don't yet, try ALA first. Your

kid will become a different person in a few hours I still remember how my son

reacted to ALA (he was also low-cysteine, just like your son).

Another thing I can recommend is Epsom salt baths. Very good for somebody low in

sulfate. It also provides magnesium.

Also, try more B6 which will stimulate those enzymes in the transulfuration

pathway to produce cysteine from homocysteine.

I don't know how cleat this is (or not) but you can ask me more questions if you

want. I will try to do a better job.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

A practical application would be good. What on the chart would allow someone to

predict, given the cysteine and sulfation guidelines, what their child might

react negatively or positively to?

Re: [ ] VALENTINA: Nasal M-B12 Spray side effect?

> His Plasma Cysteine is 2.83 mg/dL (below the range of 3.10-3.90); his

Plasma

> Sulfate is 2.90 mg/dL (also below the range of 4.80-5.30) and his Reduced

> Glutathione is 9 (way below the range as well of >= 32 mg/dL).

,

you might want to download that drawing I just uploaded in the files

section.

It's called folate.jpg.

Print that picture and take a few moment to analyze it. It's not very

complicated. Only at the beginning. Look at the Methionine - SAMe - SAH -

Homocysteine circle.

The way I understand it, it's like this:

Cysteine, Glutathione, Sulfate, Taurine, they all come from Methionine.

Another

source is food, but we will not talk about that just yet. When the body

needs

sulfur (Glutahione, Cysteine, etc) it takes it from Homocysteine. Instead of

allowing it to be remethylated into Methionine, it will be pushed on the

transulfuration pathway (which I am sorry I did not insist on in that

drawing,

but it will still help to understand what I mean). SAMe controls (more or

less)

where the homocysteine is going, what fate will it have - remethylation

(back to

methionine) or transulfuration (cysteine, glutathione, etc.). The main need

of

the body is methylation and preserving the 1-carbon units. When you give

more

B12 and folate, you kind of " force " the balance towards remethylation, even

if

you are low cysteine/sulfur. SAMe will direct the homocysteine towards the

transulfuration pathway only if there is lots of it (SAMe) around. When you

are

low in homocysteine to begin with (from lack of methionine in the diet or

malabsorption, or maybe the enzyme that transforms SAH into Homocysteine is

not

working properly), you are also low SAMe, which means that homocysteine will

not

be directed towards the transulfuration pathway. So you will have low

cysteine,

and all the other " sulfury things " that are made of it.

What you can do to kind of patch this is eat a lot of sulfur-rich foods. And

the

way I understand it this is the best thing you can do. It will help

enormously.

These foods will increase the cysteine and will allow your body to make the

other sulfury products it needs.

I don't know if you chelate or not, but if you don't yet, try ALA first.

Your

kid will become a different person in a few hours I still remember how my

son

reacted to ALA (he was also low-cysteine, just like your son).

Another thing I can recommend is Epsom salt baths. Very good for somebody

low in

sulfate. It also provides magnesium.

Also, try more B6 which will stimulate those enzymes in the transulfuration

pathway to produce cysteine from homocysteine.

I don't know how cleat this is (or not) but you can ask me more questions if

you

want. I will try to do a better job.

Valentina

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> A practical application would be good. What on the chart would allow someone

to predict, given the cysteine and sulfation guidelines, what their child might

react negatively or positively to?

, was this question addressed to me?

I am not sure I understand what you're asking, either. I am sorry, could you ask

this again, please? Maybe give a specific scenario? React to supplements, or

foods, or chelation? Sorry, I am not

sure what you're asking.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Hi Valentina:

Sorry unclear. Could there have been anyway looking at that chart and knowing

what the cysteine and sulfur ratios were, that might have helped her predict

that methyl B12 might not have been a choice at that point? Or anyway to look at

that chart and see that something else needed to be in place before B12?

Re: [ ] VALENTINA: Nasal M-B12 Spray side effect?

> A practical application would be good. What on the chart would allow someone

to predict, given the cysteine and sulfation guidelines, what their child might

react negatively or positively to?

, was this question addressed to me?

I am not sure I understand what you're asking, either. I am sorry, could you

ask this again, please? Maybe give a specific scenario? React to supplements, or

foods, or chelation? Sorry, I am not

sure what you're asking.

Valentina

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> TD-DMPS (1ML every 48hrs) for the past 5 months. I was considering ALA, but

> I have been skeptical.

You might try just sulfur-foods first for a few days and see how your son reacts

to them.

I personally love oral ALA It is the only chelator I really trust.

> I want to understand how too much M-B12 could overload the

> body (if that is what could potentially be happening to my son).

Well, he might still need the B12 and folic acid, of course, but just make sure

he has enough cysteine first. After you take care of this aspect, then try B12

again. But try smaller doses.

Why did you decide your son needs B12 shots? I mean was it something in his

tests, or you just considered that is a good supplement to try? (just

curious...)

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Hi Valentina,

I have a Doctor who is helping me with these interventions and given all the

great stuff said about M-B12, we wanted to give it a shot. When we started

with the shots, it made him regress and very hyper. After 3 months, we

decided (my husband and I along with the doctor's observations) that the

shots were not doing much for him. We tested his glutathione, and came to

the conclusion that since it was so low, that was possibly why the shots

were not doing anything positive for him. Started him on transdermal

glutathione (0.5ml twice a day) and that was a great intervention. He

became verbal, just with the cream. So after 6 months with the cream and

after reading so many positivies on the nasal spray, I asked the doctor to

prescribe it. But I still think that his body is not ready for it.

What kinds of food are rich in cysteine? Also, where can I get ALA from?

Kirkman's any good?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your feedback. This has been

very enlightening.

.

Re: [ ] VALENTINA: Nasal M-B12 Spray side effect?

> TD-DMPS (1ML every 48hrs) for the past 5 months. I was considering ALA,

but

> I have been skeptical.

You might try just sulfur-foods first for a few days and see how your son

reacts

to them.

I personally love oral ALA It is the only chelator I really trust.

> I want to understand how too much M-B12 could overload the

> body (if that is what could potentially be happening to my son).

Well, he might still need the B12 and folic acid, of course, but just make

sure

he has enough cysteine first. After you take care of this aspect, then try

B12

again. But try smaller doses.

Why did you decide your son needs B12 shots? I mean was it something in his

tests, or you just considered that is a good supplement to try? (just

curious...)

Valentina

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Foods high in sulfur are garlic, onions, broccoli, cauliflower,

cabbage, Brussels sprouts, leeks, eggs, beans, etc.

Also, keep in mind that with these foods high in sulfur comes gas and

possibly yeast problems, so you migth want to watch for that too.

Did you ever try giving NAC?

Also, did you ever try Epsom salt baths?

You can buy ALA at any HFS. I am sure Kirkman brand is fine.

Good luck!

Valentina

> I have a Doctor who is helping me with these interventions and

given all the

> great stuff said about M-B12, we wanted to give it a shot. When we

started

> with the shots, it made him regress and very hyper. After 3

months, we

> decided (my husband and I along with the doctor's observations)

that the

> shots were not doing much for him. We tested his glutathione, and

came to

> the conclusion that since it was so low, that was possibly why the

shots

> were not doing anything positive for him. Started him on

transdermal

> glutathione (0.5ml twice a day) and that was a great intervention.

He

> became verbal, just with the cream. So after 6 months with the

cream and

> after reading so many positivies on the nasal spray, I asked the

doctor to

> prescribe it. But I still think that his body is not ready for it.

>

>

>

> What kinds of food are rich in cysteine? Also, where can I get ALA

from?

> Kirkman's any good?

[Guest guest]

> Could there have been anyway looking at that chart and knowing what the

cysteine and sulfur ratios were, that might have helped her predict that methyl

B12 might not have been a choice at that point? Or anyway to look at that chart

and see that something else needed to be in place before B12?

I think I understand now. Not in her case

It is tricky, of course, like anything else. Because she knew cysteine is low,

but she also knew that her son has the MTHFR problem, which would lead one to

believe that the reason the person is low cysteine is because the homocysteine

is high (not remethylated, but not trasulfurated either). In which case I

would think B12 and folate would be good supplements.

But her son's homocysteine is low, which I am guessing means that SAH is high,

in which case... I really don't know what you can do, other than try and work on

replenishing the cysteine supply. At least you can do that, which is great.

I don't know what you can do in this case to make more SAMe. Maybe just avoiding

too much methionine is better for start (to avoid SAH accumulation). Maybe a

good supplement for her son would be FolaPro (methylTHF), but then again, he has

no homocysteine... I really don't know...

That chart (well, it existed in my mind only) helped me understand about my

son's condition, but of course, chances are there's always something else that

we never think about...

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Well, I think I mixed up two scenarios here )

I went back and I checked the initial message and I realized that there were

actually two different persons that asked me

similar questions and I guess they got mixed up in my mind Sorry about that.

The chart can (in my opinion) help you figure out if you need a supplement or

not. Not all the time I guess... you cannot

always know, without tests, where the problem is, but the chart could be

helpful. It is for me.

In this case I think it is important to know the homocystiene. When your

cysteine is low, homocysteine might be high in

which case B12 would be a good idea.

Valentina

> > Could there have been anyway looking at that chart and knowing what the

cysteine and sulfur ratios were, that might have helped her predict that methyl

B12 might not have been a choice at that point? Or anyway to look at that chart

and see that something else needed to be in place before B12?

>

> I think I understand now. Not in her case

>

> It is tricky, of course, like anything else. Because she knew cysteine is low,

but she also knew that her son has the MTHFR problem, which would lead one to

believe that the reason the person is low cysteine is because the homocysteine

is high (not remethylated, but not trasulfurated either). In which case I

> would think B12 and folate would be good supplements.

> But her son's homocysteine is low, which I am guessing means that SAH is high,

in which case... I really don't know what you can do, other than try and work on

replenishing the cysteine supply. At least you can do that, which is great.

> I don't know what you can do in this case to make more SAMe. Maybe just

avoiding too much methionine is better for start (to avoid SAH accumulation).

Maybe a good supplement for her son would be FolaPro (methylTHF), but then

again, he has no homocysteine... I really don't know...

> That chart (well, it existed in my mind only) helped me understand about my

son's condition, but of course, chances are there's always something else that

we never think about...

>

> Valentina

>

> =======================================================

>