RE: Hitting a really rough patch

[Guest guest]

> The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere, he has

> become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious, and has

> started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school shows

> that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up, etc.) has

> gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day, just at

> school.

For my son, OCD meant virus issues.

> The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset, tantruming,

> self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a literal

> crisis.

For the " upset, tantrum, sleep " issues, consider phenol intolerance

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

> Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there any

> supplements that would help with this collection of new symptoms

> (weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin C.

I would add something for yeast control, and consider possible phenol

intolerance.

Dana

[Guest guest]

What about digestive enzymes and amino acids? We did the GFCF diet for a

couple years and saw wonderful improvements. We did this in conjunction with

DMG and Super NuThera with Kirkman Labs. Every kiddo is different but my son

saw HUGE improvements with these three things. The stims all but disappeared,

better eye contact, less agitation...all kinds of things. A couple weeks into

this and I was really starting to feel like I got my baby back.

Our next big thing was with probiotics. Two weeks into treatment with ProBio

Gold (Kirkman) he started trying to talk. He still isn't where he should be but

that really started the train rolling.

Digestive enzymes have helped immensly. We have been able to let him start

eating gluten again without all the negative side effects. Dairy still isn't

really okay but I don't have to worry about the occasional bit.

The DAN protocal can be wonderful but help from this board is better, in my

opinion! We are in the trenches, some longer than others so we have seen in our

own homes what works and what doesn't.

In my personal opinion...for what it is worth!...The enzymes, probiotics (if

there is a history of antibiotic use), proper vitamin and mineral

supplementation including essential fatty acids are essential. Our kids have

huge gut issues and they are not getting what they need from the foods they eat.

Many are good eaters and are still malnurished in key vitamins and minerals.

Making sure what they eat is also important. The ADHD diet book wonderfully

explained how many kids can overcome this by eliminating processed junk foods

from their diet as well as trans fats, food colorings and preservatives. They

can't process regular broccoli and get the nutrition from it and they certainly

can't get anything from processed chemically laced foods. My kids do so much

better on a diet free from those things. There is a book out there about a

woman who brought her son out of autism by diet alone. Most of us are not that

lucky but diet plays an improtant role none-the-less.

Chelation with the proper protocal is also so huge improtant. You can get a

simple hair test that helps determine if mercury is an issue and then by

removing it many of these kids are getting better in leaps and bounds. Mine is

one of them. Every round we do brings him more and more out of his autism. I

would highly recommend everyone looking into that. But do remember this is

something that must be done correctly. DAN doesn't necessarily do it right all

the time. This group will be invaluable in helping you with this if you let us.

Please do not give up. So many of us can tell you stories about where our

kids started out before biomedical treatments and WOW do we love to tell where

they are now! Mine started out on the moderate to severely autistic level. We

realized he was autistic right before he turned two. He is also classically

autistic. No eye contact/the zombie look was all he had. He wasn't interested

in contact with people at all. All he did was watch TV and line up everything.

Visual stims were constant and he was nonverbal. He just was a shell of a

child. Not seemingly unhappy but not getting joy out of anything either. He

watched the world like it was a TV program. We started biomed and have had

great success. He just turned six and is a wonderfully happy little boy. He is

gaining speech on different levels all the time. He recently started answering

questions correctly and will ask for things he wants. He will even tattle on

his brother and sister. He is affectionate and plays

with his brother and sister all the time. He plays with his toys approprately

and is learning things much quicker now. Lots of changes.

Have you been to www.GenerationRescue.org yet? They have a great site. Lots

of information and stories of recovered kids.

Hope this helps a little,

" Biathrow, Tim " <tbiathrow@...> wrote:

My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic

autism. (for lack of a better term) He has the usual list of autistic

traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet, poor expressive

and receptive language skills, etc etc.

The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere, he has

become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious, and has

started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school shows

that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up, etc.) has

gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day, just at

school. This trait is new for and is obviously very concerning.

He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day (4:00). We

suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to

separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication, this

is only theory. His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep, which

in the past has never been an issue. wakes most nights now at 3:30

and starts his day (and ours). The sudden onset of his behaviors have

us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.

The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset, tantruming,

self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a literal

crisis.

We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had started

going down the protocol road (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12 shots,

anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .) My wife

and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for many

reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol. Since we are in crisis

mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed Risperdal.

has been on it for 3 days with little impact.

Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there any

supplements that would help with this collection of new symptoms

(weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin C. I

can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to know

if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of his

new behaviors. The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical

intervention is on going, but we really need to give this boy some

peace in the short term. He has had a terrible two months.

Thanks for your help.

Tim

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim,

Sorry you are in a rough patch. Just wanted to give you our

experience with OCD symptoms. I finally isolated it to bacteria.

I thought it was from chelation (it began about 6 mos. into td

dmps.), but in Aug. I did a round of flagyl and it lessened. When it

came back in Oct. we decided to do another round. His tummy is

finally flatter and the OCD has stopped. Recent introduction of

enzymes seems to be helping keep it that way.

For my son, he would rearrange the downstairs furniture constantly,

and take all of his toys and put them in his crib (and I mean

everything!). We use Caprylic Acid and Neem regularly and it seems

to also help keep it at bay, but it took 2 rounds of flagyl to get a

handle on it. Yeast comes and goes for us with chelation, but that

brings on stimming, not OCD.

and Ty/3.4 yrs

>

> My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic

> autism. (for lack of a better term) He has the usual list of

autistic

> traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet, poor

expressive

> and receptive language skills, etc etc.

>

>

>

> The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere,

he has

> become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious,

and has

> started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school

shows

> that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up,

etc.) has

> gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day,

just at

> school. This trait is new for and is obviously very

concerning.

> He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day

(4:00). We

> suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to

> separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication,

this

> is only theory. His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep,

which

> in the past has never been an issue. wakes most nights now

at 3:30

> and starts his day (and ours). The sudden onset of his behaviors

have

> us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.

>

>

>

> The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset,

tantruming,

> self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a

literal

> crisis.

>

>

>

> We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had

started

> going down the protocol road (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12

shots,

> anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .)

My wife

> and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for

many

> reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol. Since we are in

crisis

> mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed

Risperdal.

> has been on it for 3 days with little impact.

>

>

>

> Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there

any

> supplements that would help with this collection of new

symptoms

> (weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin

C. I

> can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to

know

> if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of

his

> new behaviors. The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical

> intervention is on going, but we really need to give this boy some

> peace in the short term. He has had a terrible two months.

>

>

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Tim

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the list. Is your son verbal or otherwise communicative? What does

your son eat, specifically? Does he have any mercury amalgam dental fillings?

When was his most recent vaccine? When were his most recent antibiotics?

Does/has he had frequent ear infections? Does he have a new bed? Are the

increasing symptoms at similar levels at home and at school or more of an issue

one place or the other? What type school setting does he have?

Before knowing the answers to the above, my top suggestions would be:

DDI hair elements test (which you can get w/out a doc through DLS)

dairy-free probiotics

zinc

HNI digestive enzymes

S S

<tt>

My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic<BR>

autism. (for lack of a better term)   He has the usual list of autistic<BR>

traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet,  poor expressive<BR>

and receptive language skills, etc etc.   <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

The last 8 weeks have been brutal.  It seems that out of nowhere, he has<BR>

become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious, and has<BR>

started to display increasing OCD behaviors.  Data taken at school shows<BR>

that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up, etc.) has<BR>

gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day, just at<BR>

school.  This trait is new for and is obviously very concerning.<BR>

He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day (4:00).  We<BR>

suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to<BR>

separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication, this<BR>

is only theory.  His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep, which<BR>

in the past has never been an issue.  wakes most nights now at 3:30<BR>

and starts his day (and ours).  The sudden onset of his behaviors have<BR>

us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.  <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset, tantruming,<BR>

self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a literal<BR>

crisis.  <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had started<BR>

going down the protocol road   (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12 shots,<BR>

anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .)  My wife<BR>

and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for many<BR>

reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol.  Since we are in crisis<BR>

mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed Risperdal.<BR>

has been on it for 3 days with little impact.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there any<BR>

supplements that would help with this collection of new symptoms<BR>

(weepy, OCD, etc.)?  Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin C.    I<BR>

can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to know<BR>

if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of his<BR>

new behaviors.   The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical<BR>

intervention is on going,  but we really need to give this boy some<BR>

peace in the short term.  He has had a terrible two months.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Thanks for your help.  <BR>

<BR>

Tim<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

[Guest guest]

> are there any

> supplements that would help with this collection of new symptoms

> (weepy, OCD, etc.)?

Tim, I am very sorry that your son feels so bad and that you have such a hard

time with him.

Do you happen to know if your son is sulfur deficient? Is he doing well (or

better) when he eats foods high in sulfur?

My son became very peaceful when we started chelation with ALA. About an hour

or two after his first dose, my house, for the first time in years, became

quiet and my son was so calm and he wasn't tantruming anymore for the smallest

reason. I believe the sulfur in ALA helped him immediately.

I've seen behaviors similar to the ones you describe when I gave my son B6.

Maybe you could look into that.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

> My dd has alot of OCD issues also,they come and go.

For my son, OCD is related to brain viruses. I use OLE and ViraStop

enzyme for that.

> 2 weeks later scripting,ocd,stimming alot.

For my son, scripting requires anti-virals and mB12 to eliminate. In

the beginning of mB12, it also required TMG.

What are the stims?

> yeast maybe dying but the bacteria is taking over

> does that sound right?

Yes

>>Anything OTC to compare with Flagyl in case Doc will

> not write the script?

I use OLE for anti-viral and anti-bacteria. Oil of oregano will work

for yeast and bacteria.

>>I have been giving lauricidin,which makes her throat

> sore,

Lauricidin caused a lot of yeast overgrowth for my son.

Dana

[Guest guest]

This sounds sadly familiar.

Because of the sudden surge in OCD, depression, aggression, and self-

injury, you should read up on PANDAS and talk to your doctor about

testing for strep throat and other possible underlying illness.

I have info on P.A.N.D.A.S. gathered at

www.enzymestory.com/PANDAS.html.

My son has had an active strep throat infection without any sore or

red throat. He was not a carrier- the antibodies were very

elevated. Treating the strep right away each time with a

cephalosporin type of antibiotic and using Cognitive Behavioral

Therapy has been very helpful. My son also takes enzymes, but I

don't mess around with strep because it is a bacteria and can have

far reaching complications not limited to PANDAS.

I hope you are just having a situation that can be easily explained

with something else, but I would not hesitate to talk to a medical

doctor again. Not all pediatricians buy into it, but N.I.H. has has

site dedicated to PANDAS, see my webpage. Feel free to email me off-

list.

>

> My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic

> autism. (for lack of a better term) He has the usual list of

autistic

> traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet, poor

expressive

> and receptive language skills, etc etc.

>

>

>

> The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere,

he has

> become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious,

and has

> started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school

shows

> that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up,

etc.) has

> gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day,

just at

> school. This trait is new for and is obviously very

concerning.

> He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day

(4:00). We

> suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to

> separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication,

this

> is only theory. His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep,

which

> in the past has never been an issue. wakes most nights now

at 3:30

> and starts his day (and ours). The sudden onset of his behaviors

have

> us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.

>

>

>

> The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset,

tantruming,

> self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a

literal

> crisis.

>

>

>

> We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had

started

> going down the protocol road (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12

shots,

> anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .)

My wife

> and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for

many

> reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol. Since we are in

crisis

> mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed

Risperdal.

> has been on it for 3 days with little impact.

>

>

>

> Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there

any

> supplements that would help with this collection of new

symptoms

> (weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin

C. I

> can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to

know

> if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of

his

> new behaviors. The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical

> intervention is on going, but we really need to give this boy some

> peace in the short term. He has had a terrible two months.

>

>

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Tim

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tim,

Have you considered Hyperbaric Oxygenation? The article below talks about an

autistic child who could never stop moving who underwent Hyperbaric Oxygenation

and eventually came out of the Autistric spectrum!

http://www.hypertc.com/testimonials/2005_September_Newsletter_email.pdf

I suggest you reconsider the DAN protocal (read " children with starving

brains " ) and consider Hyperbaric Oxygenation.

ASD is a terrible ordeal to go through but remember that you are not alone and

there is always hope.

Kelley <cindykelley1@...> wrote:

This sounds sadly familiar.

Because of the sudden surge in OCD, depression, aggression, and self-

injury, you should read up on PANDAS and talk to your doctor about

testing for strep throat and other possible underlying illness.

I have info on P.A.N.D.A.S. gathered at

www.enzymestory.com/PANDAS.html.

My son has had an active strep throat infection without any sore or

red throat. He was not a carrier- the antibodies were very

elevated. Treating the strep right away each time with a

cephalosporin type of antibiotic and using Cognitive Behavioral

Therapy has been very helpful. My son also takes enzymes, but I

don't mess around with strep because it is a bacteria and can have

far reaching complications not limited to PANDAS.

I hope you are just having a situation that can be easily explained

with something else, but I would not hesitate to talk to a medical

doctor again. Not all pediatricians buy into it, but N.I.H. has has

site dedicated to PANDAS, see my webpage. Feel free to email me off-

list.

>

> My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic

> autism. (for lack of a better term) He has the usual list of

autistic

> traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet, poor

expressive

> and receptive language skills, etc etc.

>

>

>

> The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere,

he has

> become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious,

and has

> started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school

shows

> that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up,

etc.) has

> gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day,

just at

> school. This trait is new for and is obviously very

concerning.

> He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day

(4:00). We

> suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to

> separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication,

this

> is only theory. His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep,

which

> in the past has never been an issue. wakes most nights now

at 3:30

> and starts his day (and ours). The sudden onset of his behaviors

have

> us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.

>

>

>

> The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset,

tantruming,

> self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a

literal

> crisis.

>

>

>

> We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had

started

> going down the protocol road (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12

shots,

> anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .)

My wife

> and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for

many

> reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol. Since we are in

crisis

> mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed

Risperdal.

> has been on it for 3 days with little impact.

>

>

>

> Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there

any

> supplements that would help with this collection of new

symptoms

> (weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin

C. I

> can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to

know

> if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of

his

> new behaviors. The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical

> intervention is on going, but we really need to give this boy some

> peace in the short term. He has had a terrible two months.

>

>

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Tim

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

you can also join the hbot group. very heated discussions between the docs at

times. the best place to ask specific questions. vicki

Abid Khan <a_bit_solutions@...> wrote: Tim,

Have you considered Hyperbaric Oxygenation? The article below talks about an

autistic child who could never stop moving who underwent Hyperbaric Oxygenation

and eventually came out of the Autistric spectrum!

http://www.hypertc.com/testimonials/2005_September_Newsletter_email.pdf

I suggest you reconsider the DAN protocal (read " children with starving

brains " ) and consider Hyperbaric Oxygenation.

ASD is a terrible ordeal to go through but remember that you are not alone and

there is always hope.

Kelley <cindykelley1@...> wrote:

This sounds sadly familiar.

Because of the sudden surge in OCD, depression, aggression, and self-

injury, you should read up on PANDAS and talk to your doctor about

testing for strep throat and other possible underlying illness.

I have info on P.A.N.D.A.S. gathered at

www.enzymestory.com/PANDAS.html.

My son has had an active strep throat infection without any sore or

red throat. He was not a carrier- the antibodies were very

elevated. Treating the strep right away each time with a

cephalosporin type of antibiotic and using Cognitive Behavioral

Therapy has been very helpful. My son also takes enzymes, but I

don't mess around with strep because it is a bacteria and can have

far reaching complications not limited to PANDAS.

I hope you are just having a situation that can be easily explained

with something else, but I would not hesitate to talk to a medical

doctor again. Not all pediatricians buy into it, but N.I.H. has has

site dedicated to PANDAS, see my webpage. Feel free to email me off-

list.

>

> My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic

> autism. (for lack of a better term) He has the usual list of

autistic

> traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet, poor

expressive

> and receptive language skills, etc etc.

>

>

>

> The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere,

he has

> become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious,

and has

> started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school

shows

> that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up,

etc.) has

> gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day,

just at

> school. This trait is new for and is obviously very

concerning.

> He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day

(4:00). We

> suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to

> separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication,

this

> is only theory. His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep,

which

> in the past has never been an issue. wakes most nights now

at 3:30

> and starts his day (and ours). The sudden onset of his behaviors

have

> us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.

>

>

>

> The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset,

tantruming,

> self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a

literal

> crisis.

>

>

>

> We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had

started

> going down the protocol road (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12

shots,

> anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .)

My wife

> and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for

many

> reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol. Since we are in

crisis

> mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed

Risperdal.

> has been on it for 3 days with little impact.

>

>

>

> Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there

any

> supplements that would help with this collection of new

symptoms

> (weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin

C. I

> can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to

know

> if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of

his

> new behaviors. The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical

> intervention is on going, but we really need to give this boy some

> peace in the short term. He has had a terrible two months.

>

>

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Tim

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> came back with yeast and bacteria.Doc wrote a script for nystatin which was

> working,some die off symptoms but

> 2 weeks later scripting,ocd,stimming alot.Is Flagyly an antibiotic?

Theresa, from my own experience, both nystatin and flagyl are very hard on the

body. Me and my son tried both these and... all I can say is that I would never

ever take any of them again, or give them to my child.

Before we started chelation, we had all kinds of problems with bacteria and

worms and yeast. Nothing really helped. Only after a few months of chelation I

was able to actually get rid of this stuff. Are you chelating?

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Hi Valentina,

No,we are not chelating yet<i wanted to try to get her tummy and viral

issues under controle first.She is making good progress,but still has the

yeast and bacteria problems as well as sore throat off and on.She has Hg

Merc levels in her hair test by great plains which is not typical,and there

has been no recent exposure to explain it.She scripts alot and has alot of

ocd traits as well as anxiety issues.On the upside since beginning B-12

shots,her language is more on topic at times

Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under controle before

chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I wonder if I should just try

with ala,every 3 hrs

Theresa

Re: [ ] Re: Hitting a really rough patch

>> came back with yeast and bacteria.Doc wrote a script for nystatin which

>> was

>> working,some die off symptoms but

>> 2 weeks later scripting,ocd,stimming alot.Is Flagyly an antibiotic?

>

> Theresa, from my own experience, both nystatin and flagyl are very hard on

> the

> body. Me and my son tried both these and... all I can say is that I would

> never

> ever take any of them again, or give them to my child.

> Before we started chelation, we had all kinds of problems with bacteria

> and

> worms and yeast. Nothing really helped. Only after a few months of

> chelation I

> was able to actually get rid of this stuff. Are you chelating?

>

>

> Valentina

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

>>She scripts alot

For my kids, mB12, folic acid, TMG, and anti-virals eliminated this.

>>and has alot of

> ocd traits as well as anxiety issues.

Anti-virals eliminated this for my kids.

> Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under controle before

> chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I wonder if I should

just try

> with ala,every 3 hrs

She may be one of those kids that you can't get yeast under control

UNTIL you chelate the metals.

Dana

[Guest guest]

What many docs don't seem to understand is that mercury contributes to the yeast

issues and until one reduces the mercury the yeast will not really get under

control.

S S

<tt>

Hi Valentina,<BR>

No,we are not chelating yet<i wanted to try to get her tummy and viral <BR>

issues under controle first.She is making good progress,but still has the <BR>

yeast and bacteria problems as well as sore throat off and on.She has Hg <BR>

Merc levels in her hair test by great plains which is not typical,and there <BR>

has been no recent exposure to explain it.She scripts alot and has alot of <BR>

ocd traits as well as anxiety issues.On the upside since beginning B-12 <BR>

shots,her language is more on topic at times<BR>

Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under controle before <BR>

chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I wonder if I should just try <BR>

with ala,every 3 hrs<BR>

Theresa<BR>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

> Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under controle before

> chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I wonder if I should just try

> with ala,every 3 hrs

Theresa, I know you got this advice already, but I will repeat it anyway.

In my experience too, there is nothing better for getting rid of yeast and

bacteria and any other bad " bugs " in the body than chelation. I believe

chelation helps the body protect itself better, detoxify better, apply better

the natural protection mechanisms that we already have.

Before we started chelation... that period was so dark that I don't even want to

remember... I tested my son and he had yeast and bacteria and worms and I

remember giving him those disgusting syrups and he would just gag and vomit and

whenever I would manage to actually get some in him, he would be so sick... for

the whole duration of the treatment. It was just really sad. I tried for a long

time to at least get rid of the worms and no matter what I did, it was

impossible. Soon after we started chelation, we didn't have these intestinal

" animals " problems anymore. And we were not doing any treatment anymore (other

than chelation and the usual vitamins/supplements).

This is just my experience... You do what feels good for you, of course.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Valentina,

Thank you for the advice and input.I have been hesitating because she has

several times regressed to the extent I was not sure she would come back.She

has ,but not to the extent of not being autistic.She is currently not

attending school ,so it would be a perfect time to start

theresa

Re: [ ] Re: Hitting a really rough patch

>> Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under controle before

>> chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I wonder if I should just

>> try

>> with ala,every 3 hrs

>

> Theresa, I know you got this advice already, but I will repeat it anyway.

> In my experience too, there is nothing better for getting rid of yeast and

> bacteria and any other bad " bugs " in the body than chelation. I believe

> chelation helps the body protect itself better, detoxify better, apply

> better

> the natural protection mechanisms that we already have.

> Before we started chelation... that period was so dark that I don't even

> want to

> remember... I tested my son and he had yeast and bacteria and worms and I

> remember giving him those disgusting syrups and he would just gag and

> vomit and

> whenever I would manage to actually get some in him, he would be so

> sick... for

> the whole duration of the treatment. It was just really sad. I tried for a

> long

> time to at least get rid of the worms and no matter what I did, it was

> impossible. Soon after we started chelation, we didn't have these

> intestinal

> " animals " problems anymore. And we were not doing any treatment anymore

> (other

> than chelation and the usual vitamins/supplements).

> This is just my experience... You do what feels good for you, of course.

>

>

> Valentina

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

All the best Theresa, We all get scared at one point

or another, but hang in there. It's hard when we try

or do things against Dr's advice. But know that you

could spend months on treating the gut, or even more.

Chelating may cause gut issues, no matter what, even

on a healthy stomach. What is causing the gut issues,

the nasty heavy metals. Get rid of it and your child

has a better chance of healing in all systems of the

body. The beauty about chelating is you can support

the gut at the same time, eg. with good probiotics,

diet, off sugar, GSE, OLE, & the list goes on. The

less metals in the body, the more the body has a

chance to heal. mB12 shots help as well HTH

--- puresleep1@... wrote:

---------------------------------

Valentina,

Thank you for the advice and input.I have been

hesitating because she has

several times regressed to the extent I was not sure

she would come back.She

has ,but not to the extent of not being autistic.She

is currently not

attending school ,so it would be a perfect time to

start

theresa

Re: [ ] Re: Hitting a really

rough patch

>> Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under

controle before

>> chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I

wonder if I should just

>> try

>> with ala,every 3 hrs

>

> Theresa, I know you got this advice already, but I

will repeat it anyway.

> In my experience too, there is nothing better for

getting rid of yeast and

> bacteria and any other bad " bugs " in the body than

chelation. I believe

> chelation helps the body protect itself better,

detoxify better, apply

> better

> the natural protection mechanisms that we already

have.

> Before we started chelation... that period was so

dark that I don't even

> want to

> remember... I tested my son and he had yeast and

bacteria and worms and I

> remember giving him those disgusting syrups and he

would just gag and

> vomit and

> whenever I would manage to actually get some in him,

he would be so

> sick... for

> the whole duration of the treatment. It was just

really sad. I tried for a

> long

> time to at least get rid of the worms and no matter

what I did, it was

> impossible. Soon after we started chelation, we

didn't have these

> intestinal

> " animals " problems anymore. And we were not doing

any treatment anymore

> (other

> than chelation and the usual vitamins/supplements).

> This is just my experience... You do what feels good

for you, of course.

>

>

> Valentina

>

>

>

>

>

=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you

theresa

Re: [ ] Re: Hitting a really

> rough patch

>

>

>>> Her Dan Doc wants to get yeast and bacteria under

> controle before

>>> chelation,but she is getting older,12 1/2,so I

> wonder if I should just

>>> try

>>> with ala,every 3 hrs

>>

>> Theresa, I know you got this advice already, but I

> will repeat it anyway.

>> In my experience too, there is nothing better for

> getting rid of yeast and

>> bacteria and any other bad " bugs " in the body than

> chelation. I believe

>> chelation helps the body protect itself better,

> detoxify better, apply

>> better

>> the natural protection mechanisms that we already

> have.

>> Before we started chelation... that period was so

> dark that I don't even

>> want to

>> remember... I tested my son and he had yeast and

> bacteria and worms and I

>> remember giving him those disgusting syrups and he

> would just gag and

>> vomit and

>> whenever I would manage to actually get some in him,

> he would be so

>> sick... for

>> the whole duration of the treatment. It was just

> really sad. I tried for a

>> long

>> time to at least get rid of the worms and no matter

> what I did, it was

>> impossible. Soon after we started chelation, we

> didn't have these

>> intestinal

>> " animals " problems anymore. And we were not doing

> any treatment anymore

>> (other

>> than chelation and the usual vitamins/supplements).

>> This is just my experience... You do what feels good

> for you, of course.

>>

>>

>> Valentina

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

> =======================================================

>>

[Guest guest]

> I have been hesitating because she has

> several times regressed to the extent I was not sure she would come back.She

> has ,but not to the extent of not being autistic.

Theresa, I am sure that whatever decision you take will be the right one for you

daughter.

I wish you all the good luck in the world!

And I hope you will chelate her, of course

Valentina

[Guest guest]

First I wanted to thank those that responded to my message. My wife and

I have finally agreed to restart the bio-medical intervention. Our

Psychiatrist told us Risperdal should provide some immediate relief, but

unfortunately it has not, actually, has gotten much worse (we have

discontinued the Risperdal). I hope you all don't mind, but I have a

bunch of questions below...

1. Going back to the vitamins but thinking of adding in a digestive

enzyme without testing for food intolerance. I was going to give an all

around enzyme that breaks down proteins, carbs, and fats. Any

suggestions on a product. Perhaps the most important part of this

question is ...can they be given mixed w/ juice and stay active and

equally effective? would NEVER swallow a pill under any

circustance..

2. We are desperately trying to get to sleep. He goes to

school from 8:30 to 3:30 and he struggles to stay awake at school. When

he gets home, he goes to bed at 7:30, sleeps for 4-5 hours then is up

for the night.. We have tried Melatonin, up to 4 ML, and he is groggy,

falls asleep, then wakes during the night. We tried Benadryl at the

advice of our Psychiatrist, didn't work. Then, we gave him 1 - 100 MG

Hydroxytryptophan tablet last night and he made it to 12:45 a.m and was

up for the night. My son is literally living on 4 hours of sleep per

night. And when he does get up he cries, stims, OCD's for hours. Last

night I had to drive him around in the car in the middle of the night to

calm him down..which it does instantly, but is clearly not practical.

Any ideas? More 5HTP? More Melatonin, something different? (45 lbs,

7 years old)

3. My wife and I settled on ALA as a chelator. I think she is just

more comfortable using a more natural anti-oxidant . Is it best

practice to start this right away, or is it best to introduce after a

reasonable amount of time addressing the other supplements and sleep

issues? I think I understand the dosing schedule, 3 days on (given

every three hours) 11 days off?. I just did not know how much to give

per dose ?(again, 45lbs, 7 years old)

4. Would a mainstream Pediatrician order a viral titres test? If

not, where do I go to get one...DAN Dr.? Stupid question, I assume it

involves bloodwork?

I will also order a Hair Test today to better target our supplementation

and understand what might be going on with him. Thanks in advance. Tim

Hitting a really rough patch

My son is almost 7, and suffers from the symptoms of classic

autism. (for lack of a better term) He has the usual list of autistic

traits, repetitive stimming, tantrums, limited diet, poor expressive

and receptive language skills, etc etc.

The last 8 weeks have been brutal. It seems that out of nowhere, he has

become terribly depressed, more aggressive, more self injurious, and has

started to display increasing OCD behaviors. Data taken at school shows

that his OCD (tapping objects, kneeling down and standing up, etc.) has

gone from several times per day to over 350 occurences per day, just at

school. This trait is new for and is obviously very concerning.

He also has been extremely weepy at the same time every day (4:00). We

suspected everything from bowel issues, to change of seasons, to

separation anxiety, but as you can imagine, without communication, this

is only theory. His emotional state has also disrupted his sleep, which

in the past has never been an issue. wakes most nights now at 3:30

and starts his day (and ours). The sudden onset of his behaviors have

us as parents, teachers, and certified ABA consultants baffled.

The sheer amount of time each day that is weepy, upset, tantruming,

self inurious, or puts himself in an OCD " loop " has put us in a literal

crisis.

We started to see a DAN Doctor earlier in the year and we had started

going down the protocol road (Vit C, B's, E, Minerals, B-12 shots,

anti-fungals, probiotics, etc, Didin't try GFCF or Chelation .) My wife

and I are at odds with the effectiveness of this approach, so for many

reasons, we temporarily abandoned the protocol. Since we are in crisis

mode, we also saw a Pediatric Psychiatrist who prescribed Risperdal.

has been on it for 3 days with little impact.

Wanted to give the background first, by my question is are there any

supplements that would help with this collection of new symptoms

(weepy, OCD, etc.)? Right now, we only provide him with Vitamin C. I

can't see starting a chelation protocol right now, but I wanted to know

if there might be a few key supplements that could target some of his

new behaviors. The discussion on re-engaging the bio-medical

intervention is on going, but we really need to give this boy some

peace in the short term. He has had a terrible two months.

Thanks for your help.

Tim

[Guest guest]

I am so glad you are back on track! It is very hard

to do all or nothing at the same time. Do what you

feel is right for you and your child at the moment.

Only you know what is best. As for Melatonin I would

not go up the dosage, maybe start at only one and

increase from there if needed. I personaly took

Melatonin myself 3x the recommened dosage for children

and had scary vivid dreams. You my want to try it out

yourself and see what happens. I know I made the same

mistake thinking more is better. I give 3 ml to our

son 40lbs and does well with this amount. Each child

is different though. But I would not go pass 4ml JMO.

Don't worry in time his sleeping patterns will

improve. It did with my son, who we had to do a

" Mexican Dance " for him every night to fall asleep.

Bio was the key. The one thing that can help in the

mean time is white noise in the background, soft

music, TV on turn low. etc. Our son sleeped well in

the living room, his room was too busy for him to

sleep in. And we all love this, a nice foot rub at

night, the only thing he will ask for this every

night, so be prepared! When you are ready I would

highly recommend doing the IgG test for starters. It

was a lifesaver for our son. We found out that he

tested positive to most foods he loved. Enzyems should

not be taken in place or mask the + foods on IgG test,

enzyems are a good help for other things that you will

soon learn. JMO In time your child will be able to

tolerate the foods, but to help his little body to

heal it must slowly be taken out. Give it a try and

see for yourself how the diet works. My son had a hard

time at the begining (4 months) but worth doing for

our kids. Not like you do not feel that, but I would

try and start out by removing foods that trigger your

child. He will sleep better and so forth. Best Wishes

Mom to Marquis CANADA

__________________________________________________________

Find your next car at http://autos..ca

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim

's right, sometimes less is more with melatonin. We tried one mg

a night for our son, who had bad sleep issues and weighs about the

same as yours, and had about the same response you did: falls asleep

readily, only to be wide awake in a few hours. Now we've cut the

dosage in quarters, 250 mcg, and get wonderful results. We also use

half the 5-htp you are using, though I'm not sure if it is a " less is

more " situation with 5-htp. This is probably largely a yeast thing,

as Nell said.

Take care

René

>

>

>

>>

>

> 2. We have tried Melatonin, up to 4 ML, and he is groggy,

> falls asleep, then wakes during the night.

Then, we gave him 1 - 100 MG

> Hydroxytryptophan tablet last night and he made it to 12:45 a.m and

was

> up for the night.

[Guest guest]

Comments interspersed.

S S

1.      Going back to the vitamins but thinking of adding in a digestive<BR>

enzyme without testing for food intolerance.  I was going to give an all<BR>

around enzyme that breaks down proteins, carbs, and fats.  Any<BR>

suggestions on a product.  Perhaps the most important part of this<BR>

question is ...can they be given mixed w/ juice and stay active and<BR>

equally effective? would NEVER swallow a pill under any<BR>

circustance..  <BR>

<BR>

*Many on this list used HNI enzymes. They come in capsules so could potentially

be opened but some enzymes need to act in the stomach. Consider contacting HNI

and asking them about opening the capsules (if you don't get answers on this

list.)

<BR>

<BR>

2.      We are desperately trying to get to sleep. 

* What does he eat and drink?<BR>

3.      My wife and I settled on ALA as a chelator.  I think she is just<BR>

more comfortable using a more natural anti-oxidant .  Is it best<BR>

practice to start this right away, or is it best to introduce after a<BR>

reasonable amount of time addressing the other supplements and sleep<BR>

issues?   I think I understand the dosing schedule, 3 days on (given<BR>

every three hours) 11 days off?.  I just did not know how much to give<BR>

per dose ?(again, 45lbs, 7 years old)<BR>

*1/8-1/2 mg/lb per dose. I presume he has NO mercury amalgam dental fillings.

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

4.      Would a mainstream Pediatrician order a viral titres test?  If<BR>

not, where do I go to get one...DAN Dr.?  Stupid question, I assume it<BR>

involves bloodwork?<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

I will also order a Hair Test today to better target our supplementation<BR>

and understand what might be going on with him. 

* Make sure to get the DDI hair elements test and apply the counting rules.

Thanks in advance.  Tim<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

> 1. Going back to the vitamins but thinking of adding in a digestive

> enzyme without testing for food intolerance.

Houston enzymes are OK for my son.

> Perhaps the most important part of this

> question is ...can they be given mixed w/ juice and stay active and

> equally effective?

My understanding of enzymes is that they stay active as long as they have

substrate to work on. I doubt that there is enough substrate for all those

enzymes in a bottle of juice. Am I wrong?

> 2. We are desperately trying to get to sleep. He goes to

> school from 8:30 to 3:30 and he struggles to stay awake at school. When

> he gets home, he goes to bed at 7:30, sleeps for 4-5 hours then is up

> for the night.. We have tried Melatonin, up to 4 ML, and he is groggy,

> falls asleep, then wakes during the night. We tried Benadryl at the

> advice of our Psychiatrist, didn't work. Then, we gave him 1 - 100 MG

> Hydroxytryptophan tablet last night and he made it to 12:45 a.m and was

> up for the night. My son is literally living on 4 hours of sleep per

> night. And when he does get up he cries, stims, OCD's for hours. Last

> night I had to drive him around in the car in the middle of the night to

> calm him down..which it does instantly, but is clearly not practical.

> Any ideas? More 5HTP? More Melatonin, something different? (45 lbs,

> 7 years old)

I would try methylB12 for this. I would not give the Melatonin, but the 5HTP

makes sense to me.

Maybe try folic acid too.

> ALA as a chelator. I think she is just

> more comfortable using a more natural anti-oxidant . Is it best

> practice to start this right away, or is it best to introduce after a

> reasonable amount of time addressing the other supplements and sleep

> issues?

I would start supplements for about a week or two.

I believe chelation will help take care of the sleep problem. It did in my

case.

Good luck!!

Valentina

[Guest guest]

> 1. Going back to the vitamins but thinking of adding in a digestive

> enzyme without testing for food intolerance. I was going to give an all

> around enzyme that breaks down proteins, carbs, and fats. Any

> suggestions on a product.

I used HNI enzymes with great success

http://www.houstonni.com/

>>Perhaps the most important part of this

> question is ...can they be given mixed w/ juice and stay active and

> equally effective? would NEVER swallow a pill under any

> circustance..

Yes, you can mix enzymes into juice or peanut butter or applesauce or

whatever. Mixing ideas here

http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionmixing.htm

> 2. We are desperately trying to get to sleep. He goes to

> school from 8:30 to 3:30 and he struggles to stay awake at school. When

> he gets home, he goes to bed at 7:30, sleeps for 4-5 hours then is up

> for the night..

This can be phenol intolerance

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

What supplements do you give? Some of them will cause sleep issues if

given after about 4pm.

> 3. My wife and I settled on ALA as a chelator. I think she is just

> more comfortable using a more natural anti-oxidant . Is it best

> practice to start this right away, or is it best to introduce after a

> reasonable amount of time addressing the other supplements and sleep

> issues?

I used oral ALA, and at first it was the only supplement my son

tolerated besides the enzymes. You might want to preload with the

supplements first, but if your child does not tolerate them, you can

still consider ALA at low doses.

> 4. Would a mainstream Pediatrician order a viral titres test?

Some do, some don't.

Dana