Re: Am I on the right track?

[Guest guest]

I know plenty of folks may disagree with me, but I suggest that you start

chelation and continue to work on gut issues during chelation. I understand

chelation helps heal the gut.

The younger the child, the more to be successful in chelation. -- get the

poison out first.

melindafaith2005 <melindafaith2005@...> wrote:

We have to get yeast under control before chelating. Yeast is

currently out of control and I do not have a good yeast protocal. I

unfortunately feel like I need to pull all new supplements added in

the last two months and start over. So I am pulling our Children's

Multi-Vitamin and Mineral, Zinc and Glyconutrients. I hope it does

not take to long to get constipation under control. I will keep

pushing up the Vit C and Mag Citrate. I am also going to Keep CLO. I

will of course keep Houston's trio enzymes which she has been taking

faithfully for an extended period. Switched from GF/CF to SCD in

November.

After I get regular bm's should I add biotin and selenium before

chelating with ALA?

If the yeast stirs up again I do not have a good plan. GSE makes my

daughters eyes dialate and I am not sure how helpful it was. We are

using Candex and extra No-Fenol and still not seeing results. I have

used small amounts of O of O in the past- I have more to learn about

using this. My conclusion is that the b's in the multi and the zinc

have increased yeast. I started noticing constipation reaccuring

after adding these before adding glyconutrients. I have not been

successful with finding Andy's recommended supplements to use while

chelating.

Of course want to chelate as soon as possible.

Four yr old recovering PDD-NOS.

Allergies to gluten, dairy, egg, peanut and vanilla

High Arsenic and possible mercury

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

If the yeast is that bad, and not responding to anything you may

find that it starts to subside with chelation. I would however, not

chelate without vitamins and minerals in place to assist her body

with the oxidative stress. My son also has PDD and constipation.

Probiotics have helped a lot. I am thinking you probably are already

using them. I am sure you have already eliminated any sources of

sugar in the diet. I know many people do not like to use a

prescription but if nothing else works you may consider using

diflucan.

Make sure to use vitamin supplements that are yeast free. B vitamins

and selenium often have these. I beleive Kirkman vitamins do not.

Others do not but you must read the labels well.

Increasing Vitamin C can help as well. The protocol is to increase

it until diahrrea appears and slowly back it down just until it

stops. This would be a good dose. (not to mention cleaning out the

colon)

Which supplements are you having trouble finding? Maybe we can help

you locate what you need.

>

> We have to get yeast under control before chelating. Yeast is

> currently out of control and I do not have a good yeast protocal.

I

> unfortunately feel like I need to pull all new supplements added

in

> the last two months and start over. So I am pulling our Children's

> Multi-Vitamin and Mineral, Zinc and Glyconutrients. I hope it

does

> not take to long to get constipation under control. I will keep

> pushing up the Vit C and Mag Citrate. I am also going to Keep CLO.

I

> will of course keep Houston's trio enzymes which she has been

taking

> faithfully for an extended period. Switched from GF/CF to SCD in

> November.

> After I get regular bm's should I add biotin and selenium before

> chelating with ALA?

>

> If the yeast stirs up again I do not have a good plan. GSE makes

my

> daughters eyes dialate and I am not sure how helpful it was. We

are

> using Candex and extra No-Fenol and still not seeing results. I

have

> used small amounts of O of O in the past- I have more to learn

about

> using this. My conclusion is that the b's in the multi and the

zinc

> have increased yeast. I started noticing constipation reaccuring

> after adding these before adding glyconutrients. I have not been

> successful with finding Andy's recommended supplements to use

while

> chelating.

> Of course want to chelate as soon as possible.

> Four yr old recovering PDD-NOS.

> Allergies to gluten, dairy, egg, peanut and vanilla

> High Arsenic and possible mercury

>

[Guest guest]

Melinda,

It looks like you are doing a lot of things right ..

I don't see anything about Pro-Biotics, but that may be the missing piece of

the puzzle.

What are you using ? Maybe a different one would help ?

Neil

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of melindafaith2005

Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:10 PM

Subject: [ ] Am I on the right track?

We have to get yeast under control before chelating. Yeast is

currently out of control and I do not have a good yeast protocal. I

unfortunately feel like I need to pull all new supplements added in

the last two months and start over. So I am pulling our Children's

Multi-Vitamin and Mineral, Zinc and Glyconutrients. I hope it does

not take to long to get constipation under control. I will keep

pushing up the Vit C and Mag Citrate. I am also going to Keep CLO. I

will of course keep Houston's trio enzymes which she has been taking

faithfully for an extended period. Switched from GF/CF to SCD in

November.

After I get regular bm's should I add biotin and selenium before

chelating with ALA?

If the yeast stirs up again I do not have a good plan. GSE makes my

daughters eyes dialate and I am not sure how helpful it was. We are

using Candex and extra No-Fenol and still not seeing results. I have

used small amounts of O of O in the past- I have more to learn about

using this. My conclusion is that the b's in the multi and the zinc

have increased yeast. I started noticing constipation reaccuring

after adding these before adding glyconutrients. I have not been

successful with finding Andy's recommended supplements to use while

chelating.

Of course want to chelate as soon as possible.

Four yr old recovering PDD-NOS.

Allergies to gluten, dairy, egg, peanut and vanilla

High Arsenic and possible mercury

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Neil, We are alternating Kirkman's Pro-Bio Gold with Klaire's Vital-

10 probiotic. Thanks for your response. Melinda

>

> Melinda,

>

> It looks like you are doing a lot of things right ..

>

> I don't see anything about Pro-Biotics, but that may be the missing

piece of

> the puzzle.

>

> What are you using ? Maybe a different one would help ?

>

> Neil

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:Autism-

Mercury ]

> On Behalf Of melindafaith2005

> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:10 PM

>

> Subject: [ ] Am I on the right track?

>

>

>

> We have to get yeast under control before chelating. Yeast is

> currently out of control and I do not have a good yeast protocal. I

> unfortunately feel like I need to pull all new supplements added in

> the last two months and start over. So I am pulling our Children's

> Multi-Vitamin and Mineral, Zinc and Glyconutrients. I hope it does

> not take to long to get constipation under control. I will keep

> pushing up the Vit C and Mag Citrate. I am also going to Keep CLO.

I

> will of course keep Houston's trio enzymes which she has been

taking

> faithfully for an extended period. Switched from GF/CF to SCD in

> November.

> After I get regular bm's should I add biotin and selenium before

> chelating with ALA?

>

> If the yeast stirs up again I do not have a good plan. GSE makes my

> daughters eyes dialate and I am not sure how helpful it was. We are

> using Candex and extra No-Fenol and still not seeing results. I

have

> used small amounts of O of O in the past- I have more to learn

about

> using this. My conclusion is that the b's in the multi and the zinc

> have increased yeast. I started noticing constipation reaccuring

> after adding these before adding glyconutrients. I have not been

> successful with finding Andy's recommended supplements to use while

> chelating.

> Of course want to chelate as soon as possible.

> Four yr old recovering PDD-NOS.

> Allergies to gluten, dairy, egg, peanut and vanilla

> High Arsenic and possible mercury

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Care to tell us what the poops look like? I might be concerned about

thyroid issues and bile issues, which is what we have found here.

Took us a while. People kept telling us to just up the C and Mag,

which worked, if your goal is liquid disgusting scariness. We needed

mag, c, ox bile, armour thyroid, and NO ORANGE, YELLOW or RED foods.

And voila! Regular, human looking, poops! As easy as that :-)

Anne

>

> We have to get yeast under control before chelating. Yeast is

> currently out of control and I do not have a good yeast protocal. I

> unfortunately feel like I need to pull all new supplements added in

> the last two months and start over. So I am pulling our Children's

> Multi-Vitamin and Mineral, Zinc and Glyconutrients. I hope it does

> not take to long to get constipation under control. I will keep

> pushing up the Vit C and Mag Citrate. I am also going to Keep CLO.

I

> will of course keep Houston's trio enzymes which she has been

taking

> faithfully for an extended period. Switched from GF/CF to SCD in

> November.

> After I get regular bm's should I add biotin and selenium before

> chelating with ALA?

>

> If the yeast stirs up again I do not have a good plan. GSE makes my

> daughters eyes dialate and I am not sure how helpful it was. We are

> using Candex and extra No-Fenol and still not seeing results. I

have

> used small amounts of O of O in the past- I have more to learn

about

> using this. My conclusion is that the b's in the multi and the zinc

> have increased yeast. I started noticing constipation reaccuring

> after adding these before adding glyconutrients. I have not been

> successful with finding Andy's recommended supplements to use while

> chelating.

> Of course want to chelate as soon as possible.

> Four yr old recovering PDD-NOS.

> Allergies to gluten, dairy, egg, peanut and vanilla

> High Arsenic and possible mercury

>

[Guest guest]

>

.. I have not been

> successful with finding Andy's recommended supplements to use while

> chelating.

>

Hi Melinda

Here's a link to the file you want. Andy's recommendations for

supplementing during chelation are towards the end of the document.

http://tinyurl.com/rp655

take care

René

[Guest guest]

>>I hope it does

> not take to long to get constipation under control.

Constipation ideas

http://www.danasview.net/constip.htm

I will keep

> pushing up the Vit C and Mag Citrate. I am also going to Keep CLO.

If he is severely deficient in Omega 3, CLO can cause constipation.

Increase your magnesium.

> After I get regular bm's should I add biotin and selenium before

> chelating with ALA?

Those were very helpful for my kids. However, like the EFAs, they did

cause constipation until the deficiency was addressed. Watch for

that, and if you notice it occurring, increase your magnesium.

>>My conclusion is that the b's in the multi and the zinc

> have increased yeast.

B vitamins, especially B6 and B12, do tend to increase yeast.

Yeast can also be constipating.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I got as far as six and when, " Yes, sounds like AS to me. " Want to read the

rest but gotta get my kiddos ready for school. I'll pop back in later to say

more!

Miriam

>

> After living with an " he has ADHD, go home and deal with it " comment, and then

a " delayed impulse control " suggestion, and then an official ADHD - primary

hyperactive impulsive diagnosis, and never quite believing that that was ALL we

were dealing with, I have come to believe that Asperger's is the answer. We are

currently awaiting an appointment with the Child Development section of the

local Children's Hospital, where our DR has, after my insistence, referred us

for an " ASOD " test (I'm not even sure what this stands for, but I know it's an

assessment for ASD's).

>

> I have the book " Parenting Your Asperger Child " , and after reading most of it,

I think it screams my .

>

> From the time he was young, here's some things I've noted that have led me to

this place in my thinking...

>

> 1. PETRIFIED of swings at the playground, didn't swing on his own on a swing

until he was 7yrs old, and loved it at that time, BUT only when you were " super

gentle " and allowed him to just slightly swing himself.

>

> 2. Over the top emotional reactions to just about everything. eg: stubbing his

toe is the END of the world as we know it.

>

> 3. We've always viewed him as " very sensitive "

>

> 4. Sensitive to loud noises since he was young. Most recently, his grade 3

class took a trip to a piano museum. The tour guide played a theatre organ (was

incredible !!). The rest of the class was so pumped up by the sheer VOLUME of

this thing (it was LOUD!). I had goosebumps it was so amazing. But, there was my

sweet boy, hands cupped tightly over his ears, rocking back and forth and

fighting off tears. This has *always* been the case.

>

> 5. Has NEVER liked crowds of any kind, or an over abundance of

people/talking/noise in confined spaces. One year, at Christmas time, we had my

family, plus my sister's fiances family for dinner. 16 of us in our basement,

around two 8' long tables to enjoy our meal. After we all got seated, and

everyone was chatting, passing the food around, I could see that he was

agitated. We dished up his plate, and he was hiding under the table. He crawled

under and came up into my lap and said " It's too loud, too many people, can I go

upstairs and play? " and off he went. I took his supper upstairs to him a little

bit after that, and he ate upstairs by himself happily while we all finished up

downstairs.

>

> 6. Him and his brother fight NON STOP. His younger brother adores him, wants

to BE him, wants to play with him ALL the time, but they couldn't be more

different in play styles. If Caleb (younger) is in a good mood, and in the mood

for saying " Yes, " and going along with everything his big brother

suggests, then life is good. But the second Caleb wants to " change it up " , all

hell breaks loose. wants to be in control of their play AT ALL TIMES. If

they're playing cars, and Caleb tries to make some other cars his, or change to

decide that they're going to go THIS way instead of THAT way... gets

angry, and will often lash out. Before he started taking Concerta for ADHD, this

would QUICKLY escalate to punching, hitting, kicking, etc... and then

would typically burst into tears and run off to his room to cry and scream and

have an absolute temper tantrum that would carry on for who knows how long.

>

> ***the relationship between my boys is a REAL problem for us, and honestly a

driving force behind knowing that SOMETHING more was going on, because this goes

WAY WAY WAY beyond normal " sibling rivalry "

>

> Further to this " control the play " thing, ha... I remember my older sister

babysitting him one night, and we came home long after he'd gone to bed, and she

told us they did ok. But that at one point, they were playing lego in his room.

They were both making something, and were digging through the bin of lego to

find the pieces they wanted to use for their creations. Each and EVERY time my

sister would find a cool piece she wanted to use, would reach over and

take it. She said it was cute the first few times, and became incredibly

annoying after a while. This is NOT unusual for , as it's something he

tries all the time.

>

> 7. ANXIETY!! Oh my gosh. The problem here is that his fear, or anxiety,

paralyzes him from doing things. Examples? A little while ago, his school had a

primary dance. K-grade 3, from 3-4pm, right after school. It was COMPLETELY

organized, they played dancing " games " with the kids (Freeze dance, dance to the

YMCA, etc). It wasn't a leave everyone to their own devices to dance with other

people kind of dance at all. He was SO SO SO excited about this dance. Talked

about it for a week leading up to it, even paid the $2 fee out of his own money.

The day of the dance comes, and 3:05pm I get a phone call from the school, from

. All he was saying was " Mom, you have to come and get me. " I could tell

he was upset, and was trying hard not to cry. I asked what was wrong, and he

repeated " You have to come and get me. " I am mere moments away from the school,

so I drove over and before I had even stopped my car in the parking lot, he was

running out the front door of the school, coat and hat on, backpack on. He was

OUT of there. I took him back inside, thinking we at LEAST had to let someone

know we were leaving, and tried to talk to him about why he had changed his

mind, and didn't want to go to the dance. He couldn't tell me. He said he didn't

know how to tell me, he was just scared. A boy from his class came out and tried

to convince him to come, his teacher tried to ask if we wanted to come in

together and just sit and watch, but nope - he'd already made up his mind. So we

left. Worst fault, he was upset that he missed out on it This happens a lot.

Where he WANTS to do something, and will get excited about doing it, but then

the anxiety will stop him, and he won't want to do it anymore. Once, we were

going to head in to the cabin with some of my husbands family, and apparently

had it in his head that we'd go in on our skidoo (which, by the way, took

me jumping up and down in our yard with encouragement, surely looked at by the

neighbors as a complete loon lol, to even get him to sit on and go for a short

ride with his Dad!). Well when we got to my husband's cousins shed, where we

were all meeting to go, he realized that our skidoo was broken and therefore

we'd have to go on something else. He LOST it, and didn't want to go. He ended

up riding in on a quad, just like ours, but NOT ours, and almost didn't come. I

had to pick him up and sit him on the back, using the strategies I always have

to help him calm down and overcome his anxiety, in order for us to have him join

us. At the end of it all, he really enjoyed himself. But he DOES miss out on a

lot of things I think he'd REALLY enjoy, if he'd allow himself to. If that makes

sense?

>

> This anxiety has also crossed over into his nut allergy. Something he's grown

up with, and has always known how to keep himself safe, etc... is now a point of

anxiety for him... to the point that he now questions if the food WE give him is

safe, and " can I see the ingredients? "

>

> 8. Rigid would be an understatement. HATES transitions of any kind. HATES

change. The other day, his brother finished his breakfast first, and went into

the bathroom to wash up/brush his teeth before he went to get dressed for

school. I suggested that while he waited, could go upstairs and get

dressed and by the time he got back, Caleb would be out of the bathroom, and

then could go in and wash up/brush his teeth. He looked at me like I had

two heads and said " But every morning I always wash up and brush my teeth after

breakfast and BEFORE I go get dressed. I can't go upstairs yet! " In school,

99.9% of the " behavior " they dealt with was a transition of some kind. This

could've been from the music room back to the classroom, or something " simple "

like a change from one activity to another.

>

> When he was 2... i had him in mom and tot swim lessons. The 30min session was

split up between two pools. 15mins in the " big pool " , and 15mins in the kiddie

pool. would SCREAM for the first, oh, 14mins... and once he was warmed up

to the big pool, we'd have to get out. I stopped going to this with him after

about 3wks, as it wasn't fun for him OR me

>

> 9. " OCD " type behaviors... we've always noted things like, he HATED having his

hands dirty, even when he was little, and would want them washed immediately, or

as he got older and more independent, would run directly to the bathroom to wash

his hands after EVERY time he ate, no matter what. Still does this. Each night

at bedtime, he has to have me fix his blankets " just so " . Daddy tries, but

doesn't do it right. If his blankets aren't " just so " , he gets upset and WILL

NOT go to sleep. When he was a toddler, he'd spend 30mins at a time picking up

" lint " off the living room floor.

>

> 10. He's 8.5yrs old and can't tie his shoes. Further to this, he's so

" awkward " when it comes to motor stuff. Running he's awkward, has never even

come close to " matching up " with peers his age. Riding a bike is something

that's always, and continues to be, a struggle for him. Throwing a ball is

something that his father has worked with him on a lot, but he's still pretty

awkward with it. Handwriting is another one. He received OT on this in grade 1,

ONLY because the teacher at the school we moved into was FLOORED by how awful it

was, and there was already a boy receiving some OT for his handwriting, so she

had sit in, and implemented the same techniques with both boys.

>

> 11. Narrow minded interests. I may end up lumping a couple different things

into one here, but he really loves art (drawing especially). He ADORES Lego (and

is INCREDIBLY good at it. He has, from the time he was VERY young, completely

blown us away on the things he creates. It's ALWAYS 100% symmetrical!!). He

really enjoys space (his entire room is covered in all things space),

computers/video games (another thing he's VERY VERY good at) and he is

*OBSESSED* with stuffed dogs. He has a stuffed dog that he's had since the

Christmas he turned a year old, and that thing goes with us everywhere. I

finally had to enforce a rule that he can carry it around the house, but it

doesn't leave the house with us anymore. He has since collected tons of Webkinz,

all dogs, and a couple other dog " stuffies " , as he calls them. He still plays

with them like a young child would (as in, they need hugs and kisses at bedtime,

they want to come with us to the grocery store, " Puppy says that you should do

this " , etc.). This is about it. We've tried to get him involved in other things,

but he just isn't interested. I don't know if it's partly because he's really

not interested, partly because he knows that he is awkward when it comes to

sports things, or partly anxiety based fears. My thinking is that it's all of

the above.

>

> 12. Personal space continues to be an issue for him, however he has come a

REALLY long way in the last few years. Kindergarten was awful for this, and his

teacher spent A LOT of time working with him on teaching him where his " personal

bubble " was. We often need to remind him, but he's come a long way.

>

> 13. He often has a blank look on his face, and i sometimes worry he's sad. But

when I ask him what's the matter, he says " Nothing. I'm smiling on the inside. "

>

> 14. Impulsive actions... this has ALWAYS been perceived as ADHD, and who

knows? Maybe he has Asperger's AND Adhd??? But reading about Asperger's could

give some of these impulsive actions a whole new light. When he was a toddler,

this manifested itself as him randomly shoving a young child at the playground.

Or purposely knocking over a glass of red wine at my parents house. In

preschool, it was perceived as " totally random acts " , as they always figured it

was unprovoked, as would walk across the room and shove a child. This led

to preschool being spent playing computer by himself, and the preschool teacher

telling the other kids to " leave alone " (sigh). It was often noted that

it was as though was trying to " initiate some sort of social interaction "

with the kids by hitting or shoving. In elementary school, it was OFTEN during

transitional times (between classes, between activities, etc), and again, I

believe, another way for him to " strike up " a social interaction. Poking a girl

with a pencil, throwing a block at a child's head, etc. And when you'd ask him

about those children, he'd tell you he liked them. He has always struggled with

understanding the effects of his choices on other people's feelings, and, sadly,

at his last school, was all but written off as the " bratty kid who never learned

from his mistakes " . Despite my constant battles, and almost a trip to the

superintendant had we not moved (for issues with the resource teacher turned

resource teacher/vice principal, who was making inappropriate comments towards

, and had completely shattered his self esteem), they wasted so much time

going over the rules with him, and telling him the difference between right and

wrong. TOTAL waste of time. Interestingly enough for , when he saw the

psychologist at age 4.5, he told us had a " delay in impulse control " , but

that he had a STUNNING knowledge of the differences between right and wrong for

a child his age. Again, I always viewed this as yes, can RECITE them to

you, but applying them in the moment is something all together different. There

were so many heartbreaking moments for me... the day he choked a boy at school

transitioning from music class back to the classroom, he came home and COLLAPSED

in my lap in tears, and said " Mommy, I try so hard to be a good boy, but I just

can't help it " . He often felt remorse after something happened, and it was

always viewed as " him just being worried about getting into trouble. " To me? It

was that he just didn't GET it.

>

> 15. Sharing isn't in his vocabulary. Especially with his brother, or younger

children, I find... but even when a friend will come over, he REALLY struggles

to " let go " and let them have turns with things. I have always had to keep a

CLOSE watch over the boys while they play together, and really truly encourage

sharing. is VERY possessive of his things, and even of things that aren't

his... if he likes it and it fits into something he's doing, he's been known to

hide things that aren't his under the bed. And when you ask him about it, he

really has no explanation of why he's done it. Again, so many times this was

viewed as " selfish " . But now, I see it all together differently !!!

>

> 16. Inability to pretend, etc. I always have to constantly supervise play with

his peers, UNLESS it was his friend in Calgary (who we miss already) who would

come over and play a video game with him for hours on end and they could just

lose themselves in that. Here? Life is different here. Kids here don't WANT to

spend all day every day in the house playing video games. They want to go

outside and play! This leads me to another topic which is of course -

imagination. Nope, nathan's no good at it. His younger brother can go outside by

himself and play in the land out back for hours, pretending he's this, or

pretending to be doing that. Even playing in the sandbox for endless hours with

scoop trucks, etc. But not . He'd rather stay inside and play his DS, or

draw, or build with lego. Those are the things he can control, and doesn't have

anxiety about having anyone " break the rules " or having something go wrong.

Control. Always gotta be in control. This also goes into playing a game, etc...

he ALWAYS has to win. His stuff HAS to be the best. We've been trying to

encourage some " game words " , as in things like " Great job " or " good try " or even

if he does win, things like " That was a lot of fun! Wanna play again? " ... but

you can tell it's forced for him. I'm ok with that... I've started to see

already a few times where he's said " Good job " to his brother, and you can tell

that it didn't come naturally to him, but at least he's thinking about saying

it??

>

> 17. Conversation skills... hehe. Yes, he uses language to share information

with us, and not to talk about feelings. If you start talking to him about

feelings, you lose him. You can see it in his face. Again with the never knowing

how his actions make someone else feel... he just doesn't get it. He misses non

verbal cues in peer situations a lot, he doesn't know how to hold a " back and

forth " conversation, we have to SCRIPT him through phone conversations with

everyone (friends, grandparents, etc). He doesn't think about the fact that not

everyone wants to do what HE wants to do all the time. When a friend will come

over and say " wanna go outside and play? " it's as though is SHOCKED

because quite frankly, he'd rather go upstairs and play lego, or " link up " on

DS. He has been taking his DS to school, and plays that at lunch time. I asked

his teacher if he was playing it WITH other kids, and he said sometimes... but

mostly alone. Probably so he doesn't have to interact with other kids and can

avoid the hassle. When conversations don't go his way, or when someone picks on

him in class, he's been known to hide under his desk and cry, or his newest

thing, go out into the hallway, and turn his back to the class so they can't see

that he's crying. Poor thing.

>

> Ok I'll stop, cause I think I could go on and on all day. I filled in the

checklist in the back of this book, and you'd be SHOCKED at how many checkmarks

there are.

>

> Am I on the right track? Is it possible for a child to have Asperger's AND

ADHD? OR is it possible that 's issues are ALL related to Asperger's? Is

Concerta something that's ever prescribed for Asperger's, and dealing with the

" ADHD " type symptoms that go along with it, so we can better deal with the rest

of things? Cause I can notice a HUGE HUGE difference in when he doesn't

take the medication.

>

> Enough questions/comments for now. Thanks in advance for all your help/insight

>

> =)

>

[Guest guest]

I have a few asperger traits of my own. One of these is Sensory Integration

Dysfunction. Having any wrinkles in the sheet or not having the bedding just so

make me feel uneven pressure and drives me crazy! LOL.

Miriam

>

9. " OCD " type behaviors... we've always noted things like, he HATED having his

hands dirty, even when he was little, and would want them washed immediately, or

as he got older and more independent, would run directly to the bathroom to wash

his hands after EVERY time he ate, no matter what. Still does this. Each night

at bedtime, he has to have me fix his blankets " just so " . Daddy tries, but

doesn't do it right. If his blankets aren't " just so " , he gets upset and WILL

NOT go to sleep. When he was a toddler, he'd spend 30mins at a time picking up

" lint " off the living room floor.

[Guest guest]

I seem to have something to say for most of these so I'll put my answers after

each section as I finish reading it.

>

> After living with an " he has ADHD, go home and deal with it " comment, and then

a " delayed impulse control " suggestion, and then an official ADHD - primary

hyperactive impulsive diagnosis, and never quite believing that that was ALL we

were dealing with, I have come to believe that Asperger's is the answer. We are

currently awaiting an appointment with the Child Development section of the

local Children's Hospital, where our DR has, after my insistence, referred us

for an " ASOD " test (I'm not even sure what this stands for, but I know it's an

assessment for ASD's).

>

> I have the book " Parenting Your Asperger Child " , and after reading most of it,

I think it screams my .

>

> From the time he was young, here's some things I've noted that have led me to

this place in my thinking...

>

> 1. PETRIFIED of swings at the playground, didn't swing on his own on a swing

until he was 7yrs old, and loved it at that time, BUT only when you were " super

gentle " and allowed him to just slightly swing himself.

>

> 2. Over the top emotional reactions to just about everything. eg: stubbing his

toe is the END of the world as we know it.

>

> 3. We've always viewed him as " very sensitive "

>

> 4. Sensitive to loud noises since he was young. Most recently, his grade 3

class took a trip to a piano museum. The tour guide played a theatre organ (was

incredible !!). The rest of the class was so pumped up by the sheer VOLUME of

this thing (it was LOUD!). I had goosebumps it was so amazing. But, there was my

sweet boy, hands cupped tightly over his ears, rocking back and forth and

fighting off tears. This has *always* been the case.

>

> 5. Has NEVER liked crowds of any kind, or an over abundance of

people/talking/noise in confined spaces. One year, at Christmas time, we had my

family, plus my sister's fiances family for dinner. 16 of us in our basement,

around two 8' long tables to enjoy our meal. After we all got seated, and

everyone was chatting, passing the food around, I could see that he was

agitated. We dished up his plate, and he was hiding under the table. He crawled

under and came up into my lap and said " It's too loud, too many people, can I go

upstairs and play? " and off he went. I took his supper upstairs to him a little

bit after that, and he ate upstairs by himself happily while we all finished up

downstairs.

>

> 6. Him and his brother fight NON STOP. His younger brother adores him, wants

to BE him, wants to play with him ALL the time, but they couldn't be more

different in play styles. If Caleb (younger) is in a good mood, and in the mood

for saying " Yes, " and going along with everything his big brother

suggests, then life is good. But the second Caleb wants to " change it up " , all

hell breaks loose. wants to be in control of their play AT ALL TIMES. If

they're playing cars, and Caleb tries to make some other cars his, or change to

decide that they're going to go THIS way instead of THAT way... gets

angry, and will often lash out. Before he started taking Concerta for ADHD, this

would QUICKLY escalate to punching, hitting, kicking, etc... and then

would typically burst into tears and run off to his room to cry and scream and

have an absolute temper tantrum that would carry on for who knows how long.

>

> ***the relationship between my boys is a REAL problem for us, and honestly a

driving force behind knowing that SOMETHING more was going on, because this goes

WAY WAY WAY beyond normal " sibling rivalry "

>

> Further to this " control the play " thing, ha... I remember my older sister

babysitting him one night, and we came home long after he'd gone to bed, and she

told us they did ok. But that at one point, they were playing lego in his room.

They were both making something, and were digging through the bin of lego to

find the pieces they wanted to use for their creations. Each and EVERY time my

sister would find a cool piece she wanted to use, would reach over and

take it. She said it was cute the first few times, and became incredibly

annoying after a while. This is NOT unusual for , as it's something he

tries all the time.

>

> 7. ANXIETY!! Oh my gosh. The problem here is that his fear, or anxiety,

paralyzes him from doing things. Examples? A little while ago, his school had a

primary dance. K-grade 3, from 3-4pm, right after school. It was COMPLETELY

organized, they played dancing " games " with the kids (Freeze dance, dance to the

YMCA, etc). It wasn't a leave everyone to their own devices to dance with other

people kind of dance at all. He was SO SO SO excited about this dance. Talked

about it for a week leading up to it, even paid the $2 fee out of his own money.

The day of the dance comes, and 3:05pm I get a phone call from the school, from

. All he was saying was " Mom, you have to come and get me. " I could tell

he was upset, and was trying hard not to cry. I asked what was wrong, and he

repeated " You have to come and get me. " I am mere moments away from the school,

so I drove over and before I had even stopped my car in the parking lot, he was

running out the front door of the school, coat and hat on, backpack on. He was

OUT of there. I took him back inside, thinking we at LEAST had to let someone

know we were leaving, and tried to talk to him about why he had changed his

mind, and didn't want to go to the dance. He couldn't tell me. He said he didn't

know how to tell me, he was just scared. A boy from his class came out and tried

to convince him to come, his teacher tried to ask if we wanted to come in

together and just sit and watch, but nope - he'd already made up his mind. So we

left. Worst fault, he was upset that he missed out on it This happens a lot.

Where he WANTS to do something, and will get excited about doing it, but then

the anxiety will stop him, and he won't want to do it anymore. Once, we were

going to head in to the cabin with some of my husbands family, and apparently

had it in his head that we'd go in on our skidoo (which, by the way, took

me jumping up and down in our yard with encouragement, surely looked at by the

neighbors as a complete loon lol, to even get him to sit on and go for a short

ride with his Dad!). Well when we got to my husband's cousins shed, where we

were all meeting to go, he realized that our skidoo was broken and therefore

we'd have to go on something else. He LOST it, and didn't want to go. He ended

up riding in on a quad, just like ours, but NOT ours, and almost didn't come. I

had to pick him up and sit him on the back, using the strategies I always have

to help him calm down and overcome his anxiety, in order for us to have him join

us. At the end of it all, he really enjoyed himself. But he DOES miss out on a

lot of things I think he'd REALLY enjoy, if he'd allow himself to. If that makes

sense?

>

> This anxiety has also crossed over into his nut allergy. Something he's grown

up with, and has always known how to keep himself safe, etc... is now a point of

anxiety for him... to the point that he now questions if the food WE give him is

safe, and " can I see the ingredients? "

*Everyone in my house is anxious. I used to have a lot of food anxieties.

Especially after the tylenol poisoning things. I was born anxious and then grew

up in an anxiety producing household because my dad used alcohol to self

medicate for his anxiety and PTSD from fighting in WW2.

>

> 8. Rigid would be an understatement. HATES transitions of any kind. HATES

change. The other day, his brother finished his breakfast first, and went into

the bathroom to wash up/brush his teeth before he went to get dressed for

school. I suggested that while he waited, could go upstairs and get

dressed and by the time he got back, Caleb would be out of the bathroom, and

then could go in and wash up/brush his teeth. He looked at me like I had

two heads and said " But every morning I always wash up and brush my teeth after

breakfast and BEFORE I go get dressed. I can't go upstairs yet! " In school,

99.9% of the " behavior " they dealt with was a transition of some kind. This

could've been from the music room back to the classroom, or something " simple "

like a change from one activity to another.

*My husband and daughter actually are more rigid than my aspie son for some

reason. He does have rigid ideas about how some things should work but he

transitions pleasantly enough. He might get goofy or silly when he transitions

so that can be annoying, but he usually doesn't get too upset. If he didn't

have AS he'd be the most laid back person in my household. LOL. He has a

speech problem that is made worse because of some anxiety. His doctor called it

" Speech Dyspraxia " which is a motor planning thing. He can't quite figure out

when to pause for air and if he pauses before the end of a sentence he repeats

the same word a few times. One classmate said, " is really smart and really

good in math. It takes him a while to get the words out but he's VERY smart. "

>

> When he was 2... i had him in mom and tot swim lessons. The 30min session was

split up between two pools. 15mins in the " big pool " , and 15mins in the kiddie

pool. would SCREAM for the first, oh, 14mins... and once he was warmed up

to the big pool, we'd have to get out. I stopped going to this with him after

about 3wks, as it wasn't fun for him OR me

>

> 9. " OCD " type behaviors... we've always noted things like, he HATED having his

hands dirty, even when he was little, and would want them washed immediately, or

as he got older and more independent, would run directly to the bathroom to wash

his hands after EVERY time he ate, no matter what. Still does this. Each night

at bedtime, he has to have me fix his blankets " just so " . Daddy tries, but

doesn't do it right. If his blankets aren't " just so " , he gets upset and WILL

NOT go to sleep. When he was a toddler, he'd spend 30mins at a time picking up

" lint " off the living room floor.

*My daughter and husband are more OCD but as I mentioned before I hate the

feeling of blankets being twisted or having one blanket further down than the

other or twisted in any way.

>

> 10. He's 8.5yrs old and can't tie his shoes. Further to this, he's so

" awkward " when it comes to motor stuff. Running he's awkward, has never even

come close to " matching up " with peers his age. Riding a bike is something

that's always, and continues to be, a struggle for him. Throwing a ball is

something that his father has worked with him on a lot, but he's still pretty

awkward with it. Handwriting is another one. He received OT on this in grade 1,

ONLY because the teacher at the school we moved into was FLOORED by how awful it

was, and there was already a boy receiving some OT for his handwriting, so she

had sit in, and implemented the same techniques with both boys.

* can't ride a bike, prefers shoes with velcro because tying them is a chore

for him. He can do it, but won't.

>

> 11. Narrow minded interests. I may end up lumping a couple different things

into one here, but he really loves art (drawing especially). He ADORES Lego (and

is INCREDIBLY good at it. He has, from the time he was VERY young, completely

blown us away on the things he creates. It's ALWAYS 100% symmetrical!!). He

really enjoys space (his entire room is covered in all things space),

computers/video games (another thing he's VERY VERY good at) and he is

*OBSESSED* with stuffed dogs. He has a stuffed dog that he's had since the

Christmas he turned a year old, and that thing goes with us everywhere. I

finally had to enforce a rule that he can carry it around the house, but it

doesn't leave the house with us anymore. He has since collected tons of Webkinz,

all dogs, and a couple other dog " stuffies " , as he calls them. He still plays

with them like a young child would (as in, they need hugs and kisses at bedtime,

they want to come with us to the grocery store, " Puppy says that you should do

this " , etc.). This is about it. We've tried to get him involved in other things,

but he just isn't interested. I don't know if it's partly because he's really

not interested, partly because he knows that he is awkward when it comes to

sports things, or partly anxiety based fears. My thinking is that it's all of

the above.

* was obsessive about letters and numbers starting around 12 months of age.

Learned the whole alphabet at that age and by 18 months could identify all

letters upper and lower case. He was reading BY his second birthday. His

pediatrician didn't believe it until I wrote down words randomly and he read

many or tried to sound them out. Yes, he had a grasp of phonics by that time.

He still LOVES stuffed animals and has several bears. He doesn't focus on any

one of them. He can get obsessive about inanimate objects. He was obsessed

with clementines/mandarins at one point because he thought they were so cute.

He would take them from the kitchen and hide them in his room because he didn't

want them eaten or thrown away. He had a little green bike horn for a while

that made a noise that he felt was it crying out to him. It's the same noise as

one used on a vacuume cleaner commercial to indicate the wimpy sound of " OTHER "

vacuume cleaners (not sure what the advertised brand was, just that it had a

more powerful sound) and would cry because he thought his horn was calling

him. It's been lost for a while. loves computers and video games and has

a very hard time leaving them. I use them as reward for getting homework done

sometimes.

>

> 12. Personal space continues to be an issue for him, however he has come a

REALLY long way in the last few years. Kindergarten was awful for this, and his

teacher spent A LOT of time working with him on teaching him where his " personal

bubble " was. We often need to remind him, but he's come a long way.

tends to get into other people's space too much. My daughter gets too

close to me most of the time or hangs on me and with my sensory issues I HATE it

when people are too close. She gets close enough that if she wiggles any part

of her body she accidentally pokes me very lightly and it totally makes my skin

crawl. This is worse during PMS. I'm starting to go through menopause and the

hormonal craziness means I'm constantly saying, " You are too close, stop poking

me!!! " seems to have similar issues but he doesn't get upset about it, he

just has this thing about touching people who are too close. At least I think

so. I think there's a little bit of anxiety of " they are going to touch me " so

he touches them first to reduce the anxiety.

>

> 13. He often has a blank look on his face, and i sometimes worry he's sad. But

when I ask him what's the matter, he says " Nothing. I'm smiling on the inside. "

Flat affect. My husband and son both have this. They can and do smile but they

are limited in how much facial movement they can do. I seem to crave more

expressive faces and one of my " asperger special interests " seems to be actors

whose faces are very expressive. Alan Rickman is my current obsession. It just

floors me how much he can convey with a very subtle change in his facial

expression. LOL.

>

> 14. Impulsive actions... this has ALWAYS been perceived as ADHD, and who

knows? Maybe he has Asperger's AND Adhd??? But reading about Asperger's could

give some of these impulsive actions a whole new light. When he was a toddler,

this manifested itself as him randomly shoving a young child at the playground.

Or purposely knocking over a glass of red wine at my parents house. In

preschool, it was perceived as " totally random acts " , as they always figured it

was unprovoked, as would walk across the room and shove a child. This led

to preschool being spent playing computer by himself, and the preschool teacher

telling the other kids to " leave alone " (sigh). It was often noted that

it was as though was trying to " initiate some sort of social interaction "

with the kids by hitting or shoving. In elementary school, it was OFTEN during

transitional times (between classes, between activities, etc), and again, I

believe, another way for him to " strike up " a social interaction. Poking a girl

with a pencil, throwing a block at a child's head, etc. And when you'd ask him

about those children, he'd tell you he liked them. He has always struggled with

understanding the effects of his choices on other people's feelings, and, sadly,

at his last school, was all but written off as the " bratty kid who never learned

from his mistakes " . Despite my constant battles, and almost a trip to the

superintendant had we not moved (for issues with the resource teacher turned

resource teacher/vice principal, who was making inappropriate comments towards

, and had completely shattered his self esteem), they wasted so much time

going over the rules with him, and telling him the difference between right and

wrong. TOTAL waste of time. Interestingly enough for , when he saw the

psychologist at age 4.5, he told us had a " delay in impulse control " , but

that he had a STUNNING knowledge of the differences between right and wrong for

a child his age. Again, I always viewed this as yes, can RECITE them to

you, but applying them in the moment is something all together different. There

were so many heartbreaking moments for me... the day he choked a boy at school

transitioning from music class back to the classroom, he came home and COLLAPSED

in my lap in tears, and said " Mommy, I try so hard to be a good boy, but I just

can't help it " . He often felt remorse after something happened, and it was

always viewed as " him just being worried about getting into trouble. " To me? It

was that he just didn't GET it.

>

> 15. Sharing isn't in his vocabulary. Especially with his brother, or younger

children, I find... but even when a friend will come over, he REALLY struggles

to " let go " and let them have turns with things. I have always had to keep a

CLOSE watch over the boys while they play together, and really truly encourage

sharing. is VERY possessive of his things, and even of things that aren't

his... if he likes it and it fits into something he's doing, he's been known to

hide things that aren't his under the bed. And when you ask him about it, he

really has no explanation of why he's done it. Again, so many times this was

viewed as " selfish " . But now, I see it all together differently !!!

Sometimes I think they don't quite get that sharing doesn't mean giving away.

Having playmates bring something cool to share with your son may help him get

used to it. He'll see the benefit of borrowing. Of course trading back again

might be another whole nightmare. A social story might help. " When I share

toys it means I let my friend play with something of mine. They won't keep it.

I will get it back after a little while. My friends will share with me, too, so

I get to play with their toys just for a little while. I have to give it back

when we are done sharing. My friend might want it back in a few minutes or

maybe just at the end of our playdate. "

We did tons of social stories. did extremely well with them.

>

> 16. Inability to pretend, etc. I always have to constantly supervise play with

his peers, UNLESS it was his friend in Calgary (who we miss already) who would

come over and play a video game with him for hours on end and they could just

lose themselves in that. Here? Life is different here. Kids here don't WANT to

spend all day every day in the house playing video games. They want to go

outside and play! This leads me to another topic which is of course -

imagination. Nope, nathan's no good at it. His younger brother can go outside by

himself and play in the land out back for hours, pretending he's this, or

pretending to be doing that. Even playing in the sandbox for endless hours with

scoop trucks, etc. But not . He'd rather stay inside and play his DS, or

draw, or build with lego. Those are the things he can control, and doesn't have

anxiety about having anyone " break the rules " or having something go wrong.

Control. Always gotta be in control. This also goes into playing a game, etc...

he ALWAYS has to win. His stuff HAS to be the best. We've been trying to

encourage some " game words " , as in things like " Great job " or " good try " or even

if he does win, things like " That was a lot of fun! Wanna play again? " ... but

you can tell it's forced for him. I'm ok with that... I've started to see

already a few times where he's said " Good job " to his brother, and you can tell

that it didn't come naturally to him, but at least he's thinking about saying

it??

didn't pretend until he had a sister who showed him how. She's a natural

at this. When wouldn't play with her she'd make up something relating to

video games. She's super flexible in HOW they play as long as he plays. They

both love Sonic the Hedgehog but when Rayleigh was 2-3 she didn't play video

games but she watched and she listened and one day she said, " , you're Sonic

and I'm tails, eggman is coming, we have to defeat him. " LOL. 's pretend

play took off from there. He's 12 but probably at the level of an 8 year old in

his pretend play but at least he DOES pretend. The fact that Rayleigh let

call the shots most of the time helped a lot and eventually he realized she had

a lot of fun ideas. Sometimes they would argue about that a little. They fight

like MAD sometimes but mostly they get along.

>

> 17. Conversation skills... hehe. Yes, he uses language to share information

with us, and not to talk about feelings. If you start talking to him about

feelings, you lose him. You can see it in his face. Again with the never knowing

how his actions make someone else feel... he just doesn't get it. He misses non

verbal cues in peer situations a lot, he doesn't know how to hold a " back and

forth " conversation, we have to SCRIPT him through phone conversations with

everyone (friends, grandparents, etc). He doesn't think about the fact that not

everyone wants to do what HE wants to do all the time. When a friend will come

over and say " wanna go outside and play? " it's as though is SHOCKED

because quite frankly, he'd rather go upstairs and play lego, or " link up " on

DS. He has been taking his DS to school, and plays that at lunch time. I asked

his teacher if he was playing it WITH other kids, and he said sometimes... but

mostly alone. Probably so he doesn't have to interact with other kids and can

avoid the hassle. When conversations don't go his way, or when someone picks on

him in class, he's been known to hide under his desk and cry, or his newest

thing, go out into the hallway, and turn his back to the class so they can't see

that he's crying. Poor thing.

Get some books by Winner. I think there are workbooks with

activities for building social skills. It helps them think about how THEY

perceive the behavior of others and you can build on that. Your child

DEFINITELY sounds like an Aspie to me.

Sensory Issues

Inability to perceive what others might be thinking.

Narrow range of interests.

It all fits IMHO. The attention issues may have a lot to do with sensory

integration dysfunction. Getting lots of occupational therapy to regulate his

sensory system will help.

Learn about mind-blindness. They think that everyone has in THEIR head the same

thing they do. It is more than just not understanding other people's feelings

it's not understanding people have different feelings at all. I remember

telling people, " thinks I know where he is all the time so he doesn't worry

about getting too far away. " That was when he was very small. It was like he

just thought I knew what he was thinking. This is a HUGE thing with sharing and

losing games. thought everyone knew he should win and that they were all

just being mean in not following through with it. I see this in my husband who

thinks I have all the same chores in my head that he feels are important. So if

I don't get them done he thinks I'm JUST BEING MEAN! LOL. He gets overwhelmed

by clutter and is OCD about cleaning. I have ADD so usually I have to really

THINK about things in order to get anything done. Cleaning comes naturally to

him while it is total torture for me.

>

> Ok I'll stop, cause I think I could go on and on all day. I filled in the

checklist in the back of this book, and you'd be SHOCKED at how many checkmarks

there are.

>

> Am I on the right track? Is it possible for a child to have Asperger's AND

ADHD? OR is it possible that 's issues are ALL related to Asperger's? Is

Concerta something that's ever prescribed for Asperger's, and dealing with the

" ADHD " type symptoms that go along with it, so we can better deal with the rest

of things? Cause I can notice a HUGE HUGE difference in when he doesn't

take the medication.

>

> Enough questions/comments for now. Thanks in advance for all your help/insight

>

> =)

>

you are very much on the right track in my opinion.

My favorite parenting book long before a diagnosis or even a slight concern was

Raising Your Spirited Child. It assumes all behavior has a cause and a

function. It helped me figure out the causes and functions long before we knew

had any issues. We didn't think of him as difficult or spirited until he

was about 16 months old. I had to be a helicopter mom for which I was soundly

criticized. I couldn't just let him play with other kids because hitting,

kicking and biting could easily occur. Even now I can't just let him play most

of the time because I need to translate him to his friends and he needs to have

me translate them for him. He has improved tremendously with the right kind of

help from school as well as my constant over analysis of every little behavior.

He has shown ZERO aggression at school this year! WOO HOOOO! I am so SO happy

about that. He sometimes cries inappropriately (12 year olds just don't put up

with this over losing a game or someone throwing away a clementine). Crying has

replaced aggression in situations that used to cause a LOT of aggression. He

very appropriately says, " I need 10 minutes. " Then he takes a 10 minute break

and is ready to work again. WOW!

I think you mentioned you moved fairly recently. I HATE MOVING. Our first big

move after our kids were born was from land to Texas. Texas was HORRIBLE

for the first 5 months. After that I managed to get into another school in

the district that had a centralized social skills classroom. They didn't do OT

or ST but they knew what to do about social skills and behavior issues so it was

FANTASTIC. It was probably the best anyone could ever expect in Texas. It was

terrible leaving to something unknown in 2007 when we moved from Texas to New

Hampshire. However, we found ourselves in a MUCH BETTER school situation.

gets ST and OT and lots and lots of choices about where to eat lunch and where

to have recess. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional with him at all times. He has

reduced homework and was taken out of foreign language classes because they were

too stressful. He had a really HORRIBLE spanish teacher last year and started

hiding under the stairs to avoid it. His special ed teacher said, " Why don't we

just take him out of foreign language. It's hard enough for him to communicate

in English and he's miserable and not learning anything from it. " This is the

sped teacher he ended up with this year. She was consulting with his sped

teacher from last year when we took him out of language.

has friends here. He had some good ones in Texas, too, thanks to excellent

social skills training. But here he's in the school in our district so he has

friends in our neighborhood! WOW, that's so new. He and his friend

(neighbor 2 doors away) both have asperger syndrome. is 9 and just got

diagnosed. His mom is rather freaked out so I'm helping her. She's fabulous.

can play at her house WITHOUT ME!!!! This is NEW! YAY!

Anyway, yeah, I could go on and on and on, too.

We were fortunate to have diagnosed appropriately by age 3.5. I already

knew about AS so diagnosed him myself at age 3 and just started reading and

doing what was suggested. Then the school district in County land

did a great " collaborative evaluation on him. A collaborative evaluation

involves a whole big team of people all evaluating different parts of the

puzzle. OT, ST, PT, Psychologist, medical doctor, special ed diagnostician,

reading specialist. Huge number of people all worked together. The evaluation

is supposed to take one day with us visiting the admin building and one day of

someone visiting me at home plus lots and lots of paperwork filled in by me. We

had to keep going back to the admin building because 's IQ test couldn't be

finished until he got an answer wrong. LOL. They tried to tell me he had high

functioning autism but in the end they did one last test that they usually only

gave to older kids. was reading so well by that time that they felt they

could do the test with him. They did it and agreed with my Asperger diagnosis.

LOL. They were very respectful of me and said, " You seem to know a lot about

this. " and " You have done a great job with and with any other sort of

parenting he'd be much worse now. It has been your hard work that has helped

him be so high functioning. " WOW. That was a fantastic thing to hear!!

Miriam

PS. Sorry this was so long. I didn't intend to write a novel. LOL.

[Guest guest]

OMG ! Your son sounds SOOOOO much

like mine, as does your situation.

Currently have ADHD/OCD diagnosis but

strongly believe it is ASP. Awaiting an appt at Childrens’ Hosptital in

April.

EVERTYHING except the sibling example and

sharing example are all true of my son as well!

I STRONGLY BELIVE these kids may very well

have the ADHD and the OCD and the Anxiety that gets thrown out there, but I DO

believe it is only PART of the bigger issue, which is ASP. They are all pieces

of the big puzzle. You throw in the sensory components (i.e., the swings and

the loud noises, etc) and the awkward motor, and boom! There you go!!

I would love to hear how your upcoming

appt goes too…

Lori Lashley

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of O'Brien

Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 10:46

AM

Subject: ( ) Am I

on the right track?

After living with an " he has ADHD, go home and

deal with it " comment, and then a " delayed impulse control "

suggestion, and then an official ADHD - primary hyperactive impulsive

diagnosis, and never quite believing that that was ALL we were dealing with, I have

come to believe that Asperger's is the answer. We are currently awaiting an

appointment with the Child Development section of the local Children's

Hospital, where our DR has, after my insistence, referred us for an

" ASOD " test (I'm not even sure what this stands for, but I know it's

an assessment for ASD's).

I have the book " Parenting Your Asperger Child " , and after reading

most of it, I think it screams my .

From the time he was young, here's some things I've noted that have led me to

this place in my thinking...

1. PETRIFIED of swings at the playground, didn't swing on his own on a swing

until he was 7yrs old, and loved it at that time, BUT only when you were

" super gentle " and allowed him to just slightly swing himself.

2. Over the top emotional reactions to just about everything. eg: stubbing his

toe is the END of the world as we know it.

3. We've always viewed him as " very sensitive "

4. Sensitive to loud noises since he was young. Most recently, his grade 3

class took a trip to a piano museum. The tour guide played a theatre organ (was

incredible !!). The rest of the class was so pumped up by the sheer VOLUME of

this thing (it was LOUD!). I had goosebumps it was so amazing. But, there was

my sweet boy, hands cupped tightly over his ears, rocking back and forth and

fighting off tears. This has *always* been the case.

5. Has NEVER liked crowds of any kind, or an over abundance of people/talking/noise

in confined spaces. One year, at Christmas time, we had my family, plus my

sister's fiances family for dinner. 16 of us in our basement, around two 8'

long tables to enjoy our meal. After we all got seated, and everyone was

chatting, passing the food around, I could see that he was agitated. We dished

up his plate, and he was hiding under the table. He crawled under and came up

into my lap and said " It's too loud, too many people, can I go upstairs

and play? " and off he went. I took his supper upstairs to him a little bit

after that, and he ate upstairs by himself happily while we all finished up

downstairs.

6. Him and his brother fight NON STOP. His younger brother adores him, wants to

BE him, wants to play with him ALL the time, but they couldn't be more

different in play styles. If Caleb (younger) is in a good mood, and in the mood

for saying " Yes, " and going along with everything his big

brother suggests, then life is good. But the second Caleb wants to " change

it up " , all hell breaks loose. wants to be in control of their play

AT ALL TIMES. If they're playing cars, and Caleb tries to make some other cars

his, or change to decide that they're going to go THIS way instead of THAT

way... gets angry, and will often lash out. Before he started taking

Concerta for ADHD, this would QUICKLY escalate to punching, hitting, kicking, etc...

and then would typically burst into tears and run off to his room to cry

and scream and have an absolute temper tantrum that would carry on for who

knows how long.

***the relationship between my boys is a REAL problem for us, and honestly a driving

force behind knowing that SOMETHING more was going on, because this goes WAY

WAY WAY beyond normal " sibling rivalry "

Further to this " control the play " thing, ha... I remember my older

sister babysitting him one night, and we came home long after he'd gone to bed,

and she told us they did ok. But that at one point, they were playing lego in

his room. They were both making something, and were digging through the bin of

lego to find the pieces they wanted to use for their creations. Each and EVERY time

my sister would find a cool piece she wanted to use, would reach over

and take it. She said it was cute the first few times, and became incredibly

annoying after a while. This is NOT unusual for , as it's something he

tries all the time.

7. ANXIETY!! Oh my gosh. The problem here is that his fear, or anxiety,

paralyzes him from doing things. Examples? A little while ago, his school had a

primary dance. K-grade 3, from 3-4pm, right after school. It was COMPLETELY

organized, they played dancing " games " with the kids (Freeze dance,

dance to the YMCA, etc). It wasn't a leave everyone to their own devices to

dance with other people kind of dance at all. He was SO SO SO excited about

this dance. Talked about it for a week leading up to it, even paid the $2 fee

out of his own money. The day of the dance comes, and 3:05pm I get a phone call

from the school, from . All he was saying was " Mom, you have to come

and get me. " I could tell he was upset, and was trying hard not to cry. I

asked what was wrong, and he repeated " You have to come and get me. "

I am mere moments away from the school, so I drove over and before I had even

stopped my car in the parking lot, he was running out the front door of the

school, coat and hat on, backpack on. He was OUT of there. I took him back

inside, thinking we at LEAST had to let someone know we were leaving, and tried

to talk to him about why he had changed his mind, and didn't want to go to the

dance. He couldn't tell me. He said he didn't know how to tell me, he was just

scared. A boy from his class came out and tried to convince him to come, his

teacher tried to ask if we wanted to come in together and just sit and watch,

but nope - he'd already made up his mind. So we left. Worst fault, he was upset

that he missed out on it This happens a lot. Where he WANTS to do something,

and will get excited about doing it, but then the anxiety will stop him, and he

won't want to do it anymore. Once, we were going to head in to the cabin with

some of my husbands family, and apparently had it in his head that we'd

go in on our skidoo (which, by the way, took me jumping up and down in our yard

with encouragement, surely looked at by the neighbors as a complete loon lol,

to even get him to sit on and go for a short ride with his Dad!). Well when we

got to my husband's cousins shed, where we were all meeting to go, he realized

that our skidoo was broken and therefore we'd have to go on something else. He

LOST it, and didn't want to go. He ended up riding in on a quad, just like

ours, but NOT ours, and almost didn't come. I had to pick him up and sit him on

the back, using the strategies I always have to help him calm down and overcome

his anxiety, in order for us to have him join us. At the end of it all, he

really enjoyed himself. But he DOES miss out on a lot of things I think he'd

REALLY enjoy, if he'd allow himself to. If that makes sense?

This anxiety has also crossed over into his nut allergy. Something he's grown

up with, and has always known how to keep himself safe, etc... is now a point

of anxiety for him... to the point that he now questions if the food WE give

him is safe, and " can I see the ingredients? "

8. Rigid would be an understatement. HATES transitions of any kind. HATES

change. The other day, his brother finished his breakfast first, and went into

the bathroom to wash up/brush his teeth before he went to get dressed for

school. I suggested that while he waited, could go upstairs and get

dressed and by the time he got back, Caleb would be out of the bathroom, and

then could go in and wash up/brush his teeth. He looked at me like I had

two heads and said " But every morning I always wash up and brush my teeth

after breakfast and BEFORE I go get dressed. I can't go upstairs yet! " In

school, 99.9% of the " behavior " they dealt with was a transition of

some kind. This could've been from the music room back to the classroom, or

something " simple " like a change from one activity to another.

When he was 2... i had him in mom and tot swim lessons. The 30min session was

split up between two pools. 15mins in the " big pool " , and 15mins in

the kiddie pool. would SCREAM for the first, oh, 14mins... and once he

was warmed up to the big pool, we'd have to get out. I stopped going to this with

him after about 3wks, as it wasn't fun for him OR me

9. " OCD " type behaviors... we've always noted things like, he HATED

having his hands dirty, even when he was little, and would want them washed

immediately, or as he got older and more independent, would run directly to the

bathroom to wash his hands after EVERY time he ate, no matter what. Still does

this. Each night at bedtime, he has to have me fix his blankets " just

so " . Daddy tries, but doesn't do it right. If his blankets aren't

" just so " , he gets upset and WILL NOT go to sleep. When he was a

toddler, he'd spend 30mins at a time picking up " lint " off the living

room floor.

10. He's 8.5yrs old and can't tie his shoes. Further to this, he's so

" awkward " when it comes to motor stuff. Running he's awkward, has

never even come close to " matching up " with peers his age. Riding a

bike is something that's always, and continues to be, a struggle for him.

Throwing a ball is something that his father has worked with him on a lot, but

he's still pretty awkward with it. Handwriting is another one. He received OT

on this in grade 1, ONLY because the teacher at the school we moved into was

FLOORED by how awful it was, and there was already a boy receiving some OT for

his handwriting, so she had sit in, and implemented the same techniques

with both boys.

11. Narrow minded interests. I may end up lumping a couple different things

into one here, but he really loves art (drawing especially). He ADORES Lego

(and is INCREDIBLY good at it. He has, from the time he was VERY young,

completely blown us away on the things he creates. It's ALWAYS 100% symmetrical!!).

He really enjoys space (his entire room is covered in all things space),

computers/video games (another thing he's VERY VERY good at) and he is

*OBSESSED* with stuffed dogs. He has a stuffed dog that he's had since the

Christmas he turned a year old, and that thing goes with us everywhere. I

finally had to enforce a rule that he can carry it around the house, but it

doesn't leave the house with us anymore. He has since collected tons of

Webkinz, all dogs, and a couple other dog " stuffies " , as he calls

them. He still plays with them like a young child would (as in, they need hugs

and kisses at bedtime, they want to come with us to the grocery store, " Puppy

says that you should do this " , etc.). This is about it. We've tried to get

him involved in other things, but he just isn't interested. I don't know if

it's partly because he's really not interested, partly because he knows that he

is awkward when it comes to sports things, or partly anxiety based fears. My

thinking is that it's all of the above.

12. Personal space continues to be an issue for him, however he has come a

REALLY long way in the last few years. Kindergarten was awful for this, and his

teacher spent A LOT of time working with him on teaching him where his

" personal bubble " was. We often need to remind him, but he's come a

long way.

13. He often has a blank look on his face, and i sometimes worry he's sad. But

when I ask him what's the matter, he says " Nothing. I'm smiling on the

inside. "

14. Impulsive actions... this has ALWAYS been perceived as ADHD, and who knows?

Maybe he has Asperger's AND Adhd??? But reading about Asperger's could give

some of these impulsive actions a whole new light. When he was a toddler, this

manifested itself as him randomly shoving a young child at the playground. Or

purposely knocking over a glass of red wine at my parents house. In preschool,

it was perceived as " totally random acts " , as they always figured it

was unprovoked, as would walk across the room and shove a child. This

led to preschool being spent playing computer by himself, and the preschool

teacher telling the other kids to " leave alone " (sigh). It was

often noted that it was as though was trying to " initiate some sort

of social interaction " with the kids by hitting or shoving. In elementary

school, it was OFTEN during transitional times (between classes, between

activities, etc), and again, I believe, another way for him to " strike

up " a social interaction. Poking a girl with a pencil, throwing a block at

a child's head, etc. And when you'd ask him about those children, he'd tell you

he liked them. He has always struggled with understanding the effects of his

choices on other people's feelings, and, sadly, at his last school, was all but

written off as the " bratty kid who never learned from his mistakes " .

Despite my constant battles, and almost a trip to the superintendant had we not

moved (for issues with the resource teacher turned resource teacher/vice

principal, who was making inappropriate comments towards , and had

completely shattered his self esteem), they wasted so much time going over the

rules with him, and telling him the difference between right and wrong. TOTAL

waste of time. Interestingly enough for , when he saw the psychologist at

age 4.5, he told us had a " delay in impulse control " , but that

he had a STUNNING knowledge of the differences between right and wrong for a

child his age. Again, I always viewed this as yes, can RECITE them to

you, but applying them in the moment is something all together different. There

were so many heartbreaking moments for me... the day he choked a boy at school

transitioning from music class back to the classroom, he came home and

COLLAPSED in my lap in tears, and said " Mommy, I try so hard to be a good

boy, but I just can't help it " . He often felt remorse after something

happened, and it was always viewed as " him just being worried about

getting into trouble. " To me? It was that he just didn't GET it.

15. Sharing isn't in his vocabulary. Especially with his brother, or younger

children, I find... but even when a friend will come over, he REALLY struggles

to " let go " and let them have turns with things. I have always had to

keep a CLOSE watch over the boys while they play together, and really truly

encourage sharing. is VERY possessive of his things, and even of things

that aren't his... if he likes it and it fits into something he's doing, he's

been known to hide things that aren't his under the bed. And when you ask him

about it, he really has no explanation of why he's done it. Again, so many

times this was viewed as " selfish " . But now, I see it all together

differently !!!

16. Inability to pretend, etc. I always have to constantly supervise play with

his peers, UNLESS it was his friend in Calgary

(who we miss already) who would come over and play a video game with him for

hours on end and they could just lose themselves in that. Here? Life is

different here. Kids here don't WANT to spend all day every day in the house

playing video games. They want to go outside and play! This leads me to another

topic which is of course - imagination. Nope, nathan's no good at it. His

younger brother can go outside by himself and play in the land out back for

hours, pretending he's this, or pretending to be doing that. Even playing in

the sandbox for endless hours with scoop trucks, etc. But not . He'd

rather stay inside and play his DS, or draw, or build with lego. Those are the

things he can control, and doesn't have anxiety about having anyone " break

the rules " or having something go wrong. Control. Always gotta be in

control. This also goes into playing a game, etc... he ALWAYS has to win. His

stuff HAS to be the best. We've been trying to encourage some " game

words " , as in things like " Great job " or " good try " or

even if he does win, things like " That was a lot of fun! Wanna play

again? " ... but you can tell it's forced for him. I'm ok with that... I've

started to see already a few times where he's said " Good job " to his

brother, and you can tell that it didn't come naturally to him, but at least

he's thinking about saying it??

17. Conversation skills... hehe. Yes, he uses language to share information

with us, and not to talk about feelings. If you start talking to him about

feelings, you lose him. You can see it in his face. Again with the never

knowing how his actions make someone else feel... he just doesn't get it. He

misses non verbal cues in peer situations a lot, he doesn't know how to hold a

" back and forth " conversation, we have to SCRIPT him through phone

conversations with everyone (friends, grandparents, etc). He doesn't think

about the fact that not everyone wants to do what HE wants to do all the time.

When a friend will come over and say " wanna go outside and play? "

it's as though is SHOCKED because quite frankly, he'd rather go upstairs

and play lego, or " link up " on DS. He has been taking his DS to

school, and plays that at lunch time. I asked his teacher if he was playing it

WITH other kids, and he said sometimes... but mostly alone. Probably so he

doesn't have to interact with other kids and can avoid the hassle. When

conversations don't go his way, or when someone picks on him in class, he's

been known to hide under his desk and cry, or his newest thing, go out into the

hallway, and turn his back to the class so they can't see that he's crying.

Poor thing.

Ok I'll stop, cause I think I could go on and on all day. I filled in the

checklist in the back of this book, and you'd be SHOCKED at how many checkmarks

there are.

Am I on the right track? Is it possible for a child to have Asperger's AND

ADHD? OR is it possible that 's issues are ALL related to Asperger's? Is

Concerta something that's ever prescribed for Asperger's, and dealing with the

" ADHD " type symptoms that go along with it, so we can better deal

with the rest of things? Cause I can notice a HUGE HUGE difference in

when he doesn't take the medication.

Enough questions/comments for now. Thanks in advance for all your help/insight

=)

[Guest guest]

WOW! I have to say God Bless You! First its great that u are a advocate for your child. It's so sad that u have been through this journey and not getting answers. I know it must be hard for u to have to keep explaining his behavoirs to this doc and that one and that u would prob really like to have one doc just ask all of what he can do and what he loves and all the postive things about ur little guy. It can be draining as a parent to keeping doing all the evals and things. By the time most get a dx ur so exhausted that its a bitter sweet dx. I cried for the ever it felt like cause it's not something any parent wants to hear. Then at the same time we need to know so we can help our kids. Not having a dx can be hard and having a dx can be hard. It seems u have to stand up and scream to get anyone to hear a parent now a

days. As I read ur post I keep thinking that alot of what he does sounds just like my son. I have heard of some being dx with adhd and autism. Have u tried having him tested for sensory dsyfunction which comes along with autism? Or trying some visual schedules to help with transition? I know u said about his speech is fine, but there is something called pragmatic language that u can get from a speech therpist that might help him give a take of conversation, help read facial expressions, help with socialzation skills. Try finding local support groups that might be able to help with finding a doc that will hear u and what u got to say. I know this is all draining and hard for u to go through. Hopefully u get some answers soon. Or find a doctor that will help. Also has he ever had a eeg done? MRI? Well, I hope all works out for u and I wish ur son all the best. I bet he makes ur family smile

everyday! Don't give up u understand him the best. YOUR R MOM!

From: Miriam <callis4773@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Am I on the right track? Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 3:31 AM

I got as far as six and when, "Yes, sounds like AS to me." Want to read the rest but gotta get my kiddos ready for school. I'll pop back in later to say more!Miriam>> After living with an "he has ADHD, go home and deal with it" comment, and then a "delayed impulse control" suggestion, and then an official ADHD - primary hyperactive impulsive diagnosis, and never quite believing that that was ALL we were dealing with, I have come to believe that Asperger's is the answer. We are currently awaiting an appointment with the Child Development section of the local Children's Hospital, where our DR has, after my insistence, referred us for an "ASOD" test (I'm not

even sure what this stands for, but I know it's an assessment for ASD's).> > I have the book "Parenting Your Asperger Child", and after reading most of it, I think it screams my .> > From the time he was young, here's some things I've noted that have led me to this place in my thinking...> > 1. PETRIFIED of swings at the playground, didn't swing on his own on a swing until he was 7yrs old, and loved it at that time, BUT only when you were "super gentle" and allowed him to just slightly swing himself.> > 2. Over the top emotional reactions to just about everything. eg: stubbing his toe is the END of the world as we know it.> > 3. We've always viewed him as "very sensitive"> > 4. Sensitive to loud noises since he was young. Most recently, his grade 3 class took a trip to a piano museum. The tour guide played a theatre organ (was incredible !!). The rest of the class

was so pumped up by the sheer VOLUME of this thing (it was LOUD!). I had goosebumps it was so amazing. But, there was my sweet boy, hands cupped tightly over his ears, rocking back and forth and fighting off tears. This has *always* been the case.> > 5. Has NEVER liked crowds of any kind, or an over abundance of people/talking/ noise in confined spaces. One year, at Christmas time, we had my family, plus my sister's fiances family for dinner. 16 of us in our basement, around two 8' long tables to enjoy our meal. After we all got seated, and everyone was chatting, passing the food around, I could see that he was agitated. We dished up his plate, and he was hiding under the table. He crawled under and came up into my lap and said "It's too loud, too many people, can I go upstairs and play?" and off he went. I took his supper upstairs to him a little bit after that, and he ate upstairs by himself happily while we all finished up

downstairs.> > 6. Him and his brother fight NON STOP. His younger brother adores him, wants to BE him, wants to play with him ALL the time, but they couldn't be more different in play styles. If Caleb (younger) is in a good mood, and in the mood for saying "Yes, " and going along with everything his big brother suggests, then life is good. But the second Caleb wants to "change it up", all hell breaks loose. wants to be in control of their play AT ALL TIMES. If they're playing cars, and Caleb tries to make some other cars his, or change to decide that they're going to go THIS way instead of THAT way... gets angry, and will often lash out. Before he started taking Concerta for ADHD, this would QUICKLY escalate to punching, hitting, kicking, etc... and then would typically burst into tears and run off to his room to cry and scream and have an absolute temper tantrum that would carry on for who knows how

long.> > ***the relationship between my boys is a REAL problem for us, and honestly a driving force behind knowing that SOMETHING more was going on, because this goes WAY WAY WAY beyond normal "sibling rivalry"> > Further to this "control the play" thing, ha... I remember my older sister babysitting him one night, and we came home long after he'd gone to bed, and she told us they did ok. But that at one point, they were playing lego in his room. They were both making something, and were digging through the bin of lego to find the pieces they wanted to use for their creations. Each and EVERY time my sister would find a cool piece she wanted to use, would reach over and take it. She said it was cute the first few times, and became incredibly annoying after a while. This is NOT unusual for , as it's something he tries all the time.> > 7. ANXIETY!! Oh my gosh. The problem here is that his fear, or

anxiety, paralyzes him from doing things. Examples? A little while ago, his school had a primary dance. K-grade 3, from 3-4pm, right after school. It was COMPLETELY organized, they played dancing "games" with the kids (Freeze dance, dance to the YMCA, etc). It wasn't a leave everyone to their own devices to dance with other people kind of dance at all. He was SO SO SO excited about this dance. Talked about it for a week leading up to it, even paid the $2 fee out of his own money. The day of the dance comes, and 3:05pm I get a phone call from the school, from . All he was saying was "Mom, you have to come and get me." I could tell he was upset, and was trying hard not to cry. I asked what was wrong, and he repeated "You have to come and get me." I am mere moments away from the school, so I drove over and before I had even stopped my car in the parking lot, he was running out the front door of the school, coat and hat on, backpack on. He was OUT of

there. I took him back inside, thinking we at LEAST had to let someone know we were leaving, and tried to talk to him about why he had changed his mind, and didn't want to go to the dance. He couldn't tell me. He said he didn't know how to tell me, he was just scared. A boy from his class came out and tried to convince him to come, his teacher tried to ask if we wanted to come in together and just sit and watch, but nope - he'd already made up his mind. So we left. Worst fault, he was upset that he missed out on it This happens a lot. Where he WANTS to do something, and will get excited about doing it, but then the anxiety will stop him, and he won't want to do it anymore. Once, we were going to head in to the cabin with some of my husbands family, and apparently had it in his head that we'd go in on our skidoo (which, by the way, took me jumping up and down in our yard with encouragement, surely looked at by the neighbors as a complete loon

lol, to even get him to sit on and go for a short ride with his Dad!). Well when we got to my husband's cousins shed, where we were all meeting to go, he realized that our skidoo was broken and therefore we'd have to go on something else. He LOST it, and didn't want to go. He ended up riding in on a quad, just like ours, but NOT ours, and almost didn't come. I had to pick him up and sit him on the back, using the strategies I always have to help him calm down and overcome his anxiety, in order for us to have him join us. At the end of it all, he really enjoyed himself. But he DOES miss out on a lot of things I think he'd REALLY enjoy, if he'd allow himself to. If that makes sense?> > This anxiety has also crossed over into his nut allergy. Something he's grown up with, and has always known how to keep himself safe, etc... is now a point of anxiety for him... to the point that he now questions if the food WE give him is safe, and "can I see

the ingredients? "> > 8. Rigid would be an understatement. HATES transitions of any kind. HATES change. The other day, his brother finished his breakfast first, and went into the bathroom to wash up/brush his teeth before he went to get dressed for school. I suggested that while he waited, could go upstairs and get dressed and by the time he got back, Caleb would be out of the bathroom, and then could go in and wash up/brush his teeth. He looked at me like I had two heads and said "But every morning I always wash up and brush my teeth after breakfast and BEFORE I go get dressed. I can't go upstairs yet!" In school, 99.9% of the "behavior" they dealt with was a transition of some kind. This could've been from the music room back to the classroom, or something "simple" like a change from one activity to another.> > When he was 2... i had him in mom and tot swim lessons. The 30min session was split up between two

pools. 15mins in the "big pool", and 15mins in the kiddie pool. would SCREAM for the first, oh, 14mins... and once he was warmed up to the big pool, we'd have to get out. I stopped going to this with him after about 3wks, as it wasn't fun for him OR me > > 9. "OCD" type behaviors... we've always noted things like, he HATED having his hands dirty, even when he was little, and would want them washed immediately, or as he got older and more independent, would run directly to the bathroom to wash his hands after EVERY time he ate, no matter what. Still does this. Each night at bedtime, he has to have me fix his blankets "just so". Daddy tries, but doesn't do it right. If his blankets aren't "just so", he gets upset and WILL NOT go to sleep. When he was a toddler, he'd spend 30mins at a time picking up "lint" off the living room floor.> > 10. He's 8.5yrs old and can't tie his shoes. Further to this, he's so "awkward" when

it comes to motor stuff. Running he's awkward, has never even come close to "matching up" with peers his age. Riding a bike is something that's always, and continues to be, a struggle for him. Throwing a ball is something that his father has worked with him on a lot, but he's still pretty awkward with it. Handwriting is another one. He received OT on this in grade 1, ONLY because the teacher at the school we moved into was FLOORED by how awful it was, and there was already a boy receiving some OT for his handwriting, so she had sit in, and implemented the same techniques with both boys.. > > 11. Narrow minded interests. I may end up lumping a couple different things into one here, but he really loves art (drawing especially). He ADORES Lego (and is INCREDIBLY good at it. He has, from the time he was VERY young, completely blown us away on the things he creates. It's ALWAYS 100% symmetrical! !). He really enjoys space (his entire room

is covered in all things space), computers/video games (another thing he's VERY VERY good at) and he is *OBSESSED* with stuffed dogs. He has a stuffed dog that he's had since the Christmas he turned a year old, and that thing goes with us everywhere. I finally had to enforce a rule that he can carry it around the house, but it doesn't leave the house with us anymore. He has since collected tons of Webkinz, all dogs, and a couple other dog "stuffies", as he calls them. He still plays with them like a young child would (as in, they need hugs and kisses at bedtime, they want to come with us to the grocery store, "Puppy says that you should do this", etc.). This is about it. We've tried to get him involved in other things, but he just isn't interested. I don't know if it's partly because he's really not interested, partly because he knows that he is awkward when it comes to sports things, or partly anxiety based fears. My thinking is that it's all of the

above.> > 12. Personal space continues to be an issue for him, however he has come a REALLY long way in the last few years. Kindergarten was awful for this, and his teacher spent A LOT of time working with him on teaching him where his "personal bubble" was. We often need to remind him, but he's come a long way.> > 13. He often has a blank look on his face, and i sometimes worry he's sad. But when I ask him what's the matter, he says "Nothing. I'm smiling on the inside."> > 14. Impulsive actions... this has ALWAYS been perceived as ADHD, and who knows? Maybe he has Asperger's AND Adhd??? But reading about Asperger's could give some of these impulsive actions a whole new light. When he was a toddler, this manifested itself as him randomly shoving a young child at the playground. Or purposely knocking over a glass of red wine at my parents house. In preschool, it was perceived as "totally random acts", as they

always figured it was unprovoked, as would walk across the room and shove a child. This led to preschool being spent playing computer by himself, and the preschool teacher telling the other kids to "leave alone" (sigh). It was often noted that it was as though was trying to "initiate some sort of social interaction" with the kids by hitting or shoving.. In elementary school, it was OFTEN during transitional times (between classes, between activities, etc), and again, I believe, another way for him to "strike up" a social interaction. Poking a girl with a pencil, throwing a block at a child's head, etc. And when you'd ask him about those children, he'd tell you he liked them. He has always struggled with understanding the effects of his choices on other people's feelings, and, sadly, at his last school, was all but written off as the "bratty kid who never learned from his mistakes". Despite my constant battles, and almost a trip to

the superintendant had we not moved (for issues with the resource teacher turned resource teacher/vice principal, who was making inappropriate comments towards , and had completely shattered his self esteem), they wasted so much time going over the rules with him, and telling him the difference between right and wrong. TOTAL waste of time. Interestingly enough for , when he saw the psychologist at age 4.5, he told us had a "delay in impulse control", but that he had a STUNNING knowledge of the differences between right and wrong for a child his age. Again, I always viewed this as yes, can RECITE them to you, but applying them in the moment is something all together different. There were so many heartbreaking moments for me... the day he choked a boy at school transitioning from music class back to the classroom, he came home and COLLAPSED in my lap in tears, and said "Mommy, I try so hard to be a good boy, but I just can't help

it". He often felt remorse after something happened, and it was always viewed as "him just being worried about getting into trouble." To me? It was that he just didn't GET it.> > 15. Sharing isn't in his vocabulary. Especially with his brother, or younger children, I find... but even when a friend will come over, he REALLY struggles to "let go" and let them have turns with things. I have always had to keep a CLOSE watch over the boys while they play together, and really truly encourage sharing. is VERY possessive of his things, and even of things that aren't his... if he likes it and it fits into something he's doing, he's been known to hide things that aren't his under the bed. And when you ask him about it, he really has no explanation of why he's done it. Again, so many times this was viewed as "selfish". But now, I see it all together differently !!!> > 16. Inability to pretend, etc. I always have to constantly

supervise play with his peers, UNLESS it was his friend in Calgary (who we miss already) who would come over and play a video game with him for hours on end and they could just lose themselves in that. Here? Life is different here. Kids here don't WANT to spend all day every day in the house playing video games. They want to go outside and play! This leads me to another topic which is of course - imagination. Nope, nathan's no good at it. His younger brother can go outside by himself and play in the land out back for hours, pretending he's this, or pretending to be doing that. Even playing in the sandbox for endless hours with scoop trucks, etc. But not . He'd rather stay inside and play his DS, or draw, or build with lego. Those are the things he can control, and doesn't have anxiety about having anyone "break the rules" or having something go wrong. Control. Always gotta be in control. This also goes into playing a game, etc... he ALWAYS has to

win. His stuff HAS to be the best. We've been trying to encourage some "game words", as in things like "Great job" or "good try" or even if he does win, things like "That was a lot of fun! Wanna play again?"... but you can tell it's forced for him. I'm ok with that... I've started to see already a few times where he's said "Good job" to his brother, and you can tell that it didn't come naturally to him, but at least he's thinking about saying it??> > 17. Conversation skills... hehe. Yes, he uses language to share information with us, and not to talk about feelings. If you start talking to him about feelings, you lose him. You can see it in his face. Again with the never knowing how his actions make someone else feel... he just doesn't get it. He misses non verbal cues in peer situations a lot, he doesn't know how to hold a "back and forth" conversation, we have to SCRIPT him through phone conversations with everyone (friends, grandparents,

etc). He doesn't think about the fact that not everyone wants to do what HE wants to do all the time. When a friend will come over and say "wanna go outside and play?" it's as though is SHOCKED because quite frankly, he'd rather go upstairs and play lego, or "link up" on DS. He has been taking his DS to school, and plays that at lunch time. I asked his teacher if he was playing it WITH other kids, and he said sometimes... but mostly alone.. Probably so he doesn't have to interact with other kids and can avoid the hassle. When conversations don't go his way, or when someone picks on him in class, he's been known to hide under his desk and cry, or his newest thing, go out into the hallway, and turn his back to the class so they can't see that he's crying. Poor thing. > > Ok I'll stop, cause I think I could go on and on all day. I filled in the checklist in the back of this book, and you'd be SHOCKED at how many checkmarks there

are.> > Am I on the right track? Is it possible for a child to have Asperger's AND ADHD? OR is it possible that 's issues are ALL related to Asperger's? Is Concerta something that's ever prescribed for Asperger's, and dealing with the "ADHD" type symptoms that go along with it, so we can better deal with the rest of things? Cause I can notice a HUGE HUGE difference in when he doesn't take the medication.> > Enough questions/comments for now. Thanks in advance for all your help/insight > > =)>

[Guest guest]

Temple Grandin, an autistic woman who has a PhD in animal behavior and also

writes about having autism and about what to do about it wrote some really good

stuff about medications in Thinking in Pictures. I think I remember her saying

that anti anxiety medication was the biggest help to her because anxiety caused

a lot of her difficult behaviors.

My son is on Lexapro for anxiety. Abilify for obsessions has been suggested but

I was afraid to try it since really, is doing extremely well and I don't

think his obsessions are all that problematic at the moment. ADHD meds can make

a person MORE anxious so that could backfire in a big way. I have more ADHD and

asperger syndrome myself but strattera just made me miserable. The anxiety and

sleeplessness just drove me insane. Instead my doctor put me on wellbutrin

which is good for depression and good for attention. With better attention and

a better mood I feel less anxious because I feel more capable.

Medications are difficult and some kids end up on so much medication that nobody

is sure what is going on and then some kids get much worse and then have to go

off of all their medications to figure out what went wrong. So we've taken this

very slowly and I avoid the ADHD stuff as well as the OCD meds for fear of

making things worse with the side effects.

Miriam

> >

> > Hi Petra! Thanks for the response :-)

> >

> > I totally understand what you mean when you say you believe your younger son

is suffering because of your older child's autism. I think our youngest suffers,

too. We have payed CAREFUL attention and clearly, there's nothing " atypical "

about our younger son. He does " act up " at times, but to me it all seems to stem

from a desire to gain attention? We go over the top making sure he HAS enough

attention, and at times this has been known to cause a real divide in our

family. Our eldest, the one I am *convinced* has AS, is all about mama. He seems

to be able to behave PERFECTLY with me, 99.9% of the time. I'm sure that's a Mom

thing. And further to this, when he is upset, no one else will do but me. So

that often leaves my husband picking up the pieces with our younger son. Ahh the

juggling act can be exhausting sometimes

> >

> > As for your question, I don't believe he has ADHD, now that I know more

about Asperger's (and I am far from an expert, trust me). For so long, this was

the ONLY focus we ever received (adhd that is) from ANY professional we spoke

to. It was PUSHED on us, and clear to me now that NONE of the people we dealt

with had ANY idea about AS at all. The more I read our old papers, the more

upset I get wondering how on earth this was missed for so long. But, to be

honest... I didn't know anyone with Asperger's, and there was no point of

comparison. I didn't know anything about AS, and why wouldn't I trust the people

who were " helping " us? However clearly I never fully trusted them, as I've

ALWAYS questioned this diagnosis

> >

> > I have another question (aren't I just FULL of questions lol). Is there

anyone on this list that can tell me about medication and Asperger's? Is it

common for a child to be on Concerta or the likes? What other medications are

possible? Is it possible to effectively help them with their AS WITHOUT

medications???

> >

> > Thanks (again) in advance! I have SO much to learn !!!

> >

> > =)

> >

> > ( ) Re: Am I on the right track?

> >

> > > I too recognize a lot... Our son is 14 (as) and his brothers are 10

> > > and 3. His 10 yo brother idolizes him but he doesn't get it. One

> > > second they play nicely and the next our oldest changes the rules

> > > and it turns into a screaming match. We do talk to our 10 yo and

> > > try to make him understand. Not that we want him to treat his

> > > brother special but to make him understand that it is not his

> > > fault. He is the middle child and we make a point of giving him

> > > attention. I think he is suffering because of his brother's autim.

> > >

> > > Why do you feel your son has ADHD? To me all these symptoms point

> > > to Asperger's.

> > >

> > > Petra

> >

>

[Guest guest]

LOL. Certainly, it's obvious that doctors are making it up as they go. They

don't all agree on what characteristics are needed for it to be called asperger

syndrome. They all have lots of ideas and preconceived notions and sometimes

that gets us into trouble. It's a bit crazy making. But that's why parents

have to be on top of things so much. Well, that's how it seems to me. Every

now and then we find a doctor who totally gets it. I don't know where Dr.

Lawrence Kaplan is but if he's near you he's an amazing developmental

pediatrician who really does know this stuff. He moved away from here and I

can't find him.

Miriam

>

> Kids with AS or HFA can be on various medications depending on the severity of

their problems. Some do take meds for ADHD as well. And yes, sometimes you can

help them without meds. It really depends on the severity and type of problem

so you should find a good doc who knows meds and can help if you feel it is

necessary. I would suggest that you take a look at each problem he is having

and study what is causing the problem. Then you can figure out how to help him

- meds or therapy or social stories or whatever applies to that situation.

Sometimes several things are applied at once. There is no " rule book " to this

so you get to make it up as you go along (joy, joy, lol)

>

>

> Roxanna

> You're Unique

> Just like everyone else...

> Re: ( ) Re: Am I on the right track?

>

>

> Hi Petra! Thanks for the response :-)

>

> I totally understand what you mean when you say you believe your younger son

is suffering because of your older child's autism. I think our youngest suffers,

too. We have payed CAREFUL attention and clearly, there's nothing " atypical "

about our younger son. He does " act up " at times, but to me it all seems to stem

from a desire to gain attention? We go over the top making sure he HAS enough

attention, and at times this has been known to cause a real divide in our

family. Our eldest, the one I am *convinced* has AS, is all about mama. He seems

to be able to behave PERFECTLY with me, 99.9% of the time. I'm sure that's a Mom

thing. And further to this, when he is upset, no one else will do but me. So

that often leaves my husband picking up the pieces with our younger son. Ahh the

juggling act can be exhausting sometimes

>

> As for your question, I don't believe he has ADHD, now that I know more

about Asperger's (and I am far from an expert, trust me). For so long, this was

the ONLY focus we ever received (adhd that is) from ANY professional we spoke

to. It was PUSHED on us, and clear to me now that NONE of the people we dealt

with had ANY idea about AS at all. The more I read our old papers, the more

upset I get wondering how on earth this was missed for so long. But, to be

honest... I didn't know anyone with Asperger's, and there was no point of

comparison. I didn't know anything about AS, and why wouldn't I trust the people

who were " helping " us? However clearly I never fully trusted them, as I've

ALWAYS questioned this diagnosis

>

> I have another question (aren't I just FULL of questions lol). Is there

anyone on this list that can tell me about medication and Asperger's? Is it

common for a child to be on Concerta or the likes? What other medications are

possible? Is it possible to effectively help them with their AS WITHOUT

medications???

>

> Thanks (again) in advance! I have SO much to learn !!!

>

> =)

>

> -----

>

>

>

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>

>

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[Guest guest]

On Nov 9, 9:24pm, " r_woman2 " wrote:

}

} You know, this is how I tell if someone knows what they are doing as far as=

} autism goes. The fact of the matter is, there are specific diagnostic cri=

} teria for Asperger. When the therapist or doctor starts talking about some=

} of the prejudices people come up with, I know to take what they say about =

} Autism with a grain of salt and to think about whether this person is going=

I agree with you. When Bam was diagnosed, the psychiatrist did specific

tests and later explained to us exactly how the results fit into the autism

diagnostic criteria.

I hear so many people talking about how someone told them, " it can't

be Aspergers, he's too affectionate " or too social, or makes too much

eye contact or other bogus stuff.

Willa