Re: our chelation nightmare

[Guest guest]

Did you use the Andy protocol the demands

4 hour doses, including at night?

Note that the 4 hour dose would be 1/2 of the

8 hour dose.

How much did you use and on what schedule?

--- monkeysmeemee <monkeyboyhouse@...> wrote:

> Hi, everyone,

>

> I know some of you have had good results with

> chelation so I am sorry

> to have to give you this information. However, I

> think it is

> imperative that the group know about our recent

> experience as the

> consequences of chelation in our case were very

> serious.

>

> We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We

> were doing 3 days

> on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional

> intervention in

> preparation. He had months of good minerals before

> chelation and we

> continued the minerals on the off days. We were

> working with one of

> the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

>

> About a week after the first round, we noticed some

> mood swings

> w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this

> could happen and

> weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second

> round 14 days

> after we had started the first round.

>

> He started crying more and became increasingly

> anxious. About 6 days

> after we had started the second round, all hell

> broke loose. He began

> screaming and chanting nearly every second he was

> awake. He seemed

> absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could

> not sit still.

> He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many

> times he now has

> a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm

> and reaches from

> his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to

> stop him even

> though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew

> blood. He slept

> little and ate little.

>

> This went on for an entire week. I have never been

> so afraid in my

> life.

>

> Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we

> took him to a

> very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her

> theory was that the

> DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and

> sent him into an

> episode of mania.

>

> She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked.

> He has continued

> to improve over the last few days since we started

> the medication. As

> glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on

> lithium is not a

> situation I'd wish on anyone.

>

> If this happened to us, I have to assume it's

> possible it could

> happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any

> way to predict

> which children could respond this way. Before we

> chelated, our DAN

> doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and

> she says his

> lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

>

> BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the

> DMSA. The dosage

> was correct for my son's body weight.

>

> I thought you guys should know about this.

>

> Carla

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Carla, I'm so sorry to hear of your experience with this. Did you

find out the source of Lithium...e.g., where did it come from? B/C

I don't think that substance comes up on the typical lab tests that

I can remember?

What has been recomended to you to do next after your son being

prescribed the low dose lithium? What did your son's dandr say to

do?

budsmom

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am

sorry

> to have to give you this information. However, I think it is

> imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the

> consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.

>

> We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3

days

> on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention in

> preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and we

> continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one of

> the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

>

> About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings

> w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen and

> weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14 days

> after we had started the first round.

>

> He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6

days

> after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He

began

> screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He seemed

> absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit still.

> He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now

has

> a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches from

> his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him even

> though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept

> little and ate little.

>

> This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in my

> life.

>

> Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to a

> very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that the

> DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into an

> episode of mania.

>

> She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has

continued

> to improve over the last few days since we started the medication.

As

> glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a

> situation I'd wish on anyone.

>

> If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could

> happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to predict

> which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our DAN

> doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his

> lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

>

> BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The

dosage

> was correct for my son's body weight.

>

> I thought you guys should know about this.

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Carla

I am so sorry for you and your son. This sounds so scary.

It would be very helpful if you could give us specifics about your

dose and timing, as these are critical. A detailed list of your

supplements might help, too.

Most DAN! doctors don't use the protocol promoted on this group,

which was was developed by Cutler. He is a chemist who knows

a good deal about chelators, and developed a chelation protocol when

he suffered mercury poisoning. His protocol uses a very small dose

of chelator given strictly on the half life to avoid redistribution

of heavy metals to the brain and other vulnerable areas. Minerals,

antioxidants and other supplements are given frequently both on " on "

days and " off " days to keep the child comfortable. Many people who

report adverse reactions to chelation do very well when they switch

to this protocol, which was designed for safety. I apaolgize if you

already know all of this.

I checked the archives and noticed that Andy doesn't believe that

chelators deplete lithium. I'm not a chemist so I don't have any

personal opinions on this.

take care

René

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am

sorry

> to have to give you this information. However, I think it is

> imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the

> consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.

>

> We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3 days

> on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention in

> preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and we

> continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one of

> the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

>

> About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings

> w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen and

> weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14 days

> after we had started the first round.

>

> He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6 days

> after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He

began

> screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He seemed

> absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit still.

> He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now has

> a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches from

> his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him even

> though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept

> little and ate little.

>

> This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in my

> life.

>

> Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to a

> very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that the

> DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into an

> episode of mania.

>

> She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has continued

> to improve over the last few days since we started the medication.

As

> glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a

> situation I'd wish on anyone.

>

> If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could

> happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to predict

> which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our DAN

> doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his

> lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

>

> BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The

dosage

> was correct for my son's body weight.

>

> I thought you guys should know about this.

>

> Carla

>

[Guest guest]

What was your yeast protocol? DMSA often causes yeast overgrowth which causes

giggling and mania-like behaviors. How often were you dosing the DMSA, what

route (oral, TD), and what dose (DAN protocol or Andy Cutler protocol)? DAN

doctors frequently use unsafely high doses and unsafely infrequent dosing

schedule. Glad he's doing better. I presume he has NO mercury amalgam dental

fillings.

S S

Hi, everyone,<BR>

<BR>

I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am sorry<BR>

to have to give you this information. However, I think it is<BR>

imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the<BR>

consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.<BR>

<BR>

We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3 days<BR>

on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention in<BR>

preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and we<BR>

continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one of<BR>

the most well respected DAN doctors out there.<BR>

<BR>

About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings<BR>

w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen and<BR>

weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14 days<BR>

after we had started the first round.<BR>

<BR>

He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6 days<BR>

after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He began<BR>

screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He seemed<BR>

absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit still.<BR>

He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now has<BR>

a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches from<BR>

his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him even<BR>

though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept<BR>

little and ate little.<BR>

<BR>

This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in my<BR>

life.<BR>

<BR>

Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to a<BR>

very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that the<BR>

DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into an<BR>

episode of mania.<BR>

<BR>

She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has continued<BR>

to improve over the last few days since we started the medication. As<BR>

glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a<BR>

situation I'd wish on anyone.<BR>

<BR>

If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could<BR>

happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to predict<BR>

which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our DAN<BR>

doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his<BR>

lithium levels were on the high side of normal.<BR>

<BR>

BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The dosage<BR>

was correct for my son's body weight.<BR>

<BR>

I thought you guys should know about this.<BR>

<BR>

Carla<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<br><br>

<tt>

=======================================================<BR>

[Guest guest]

In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation nightmare " , I

took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last ten

days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing his

body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is so

happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in our

area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation also

(like lithium)?

We could sure use some answers!

Thanks for your info,

Dawn

[Guest guest]

Are you doing this every 8 hours or every four? Supplementing minerals? A

low enough dose?

Low and slow is the way to go and with DMSA, 4 hours is much better than 8.

Also, high dose does not pull a lot more mercury, so go as low as you can

but still be effective. Mineral supplementation is KEY and also lots of

water!

Barb

(an old-timer who's been on here since the spring of 2000.)

[ ] Re: our chelation nightmare

> In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation nightmare " , I

> took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

> treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last ten

> days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

> minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing his

> body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is so

> happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

> frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in our

> area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

>

> I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation also

> (like lithium)?

>

> We could sure use some answers!

>

> Thanks for your info,

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

What dose and dosing schedule are you using? Do you have a yeast protocol in

place?

S S

<tt>

In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation nightmare " , I<BR>

took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical<BR>

treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last ten<BR>

days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30<BR>

minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing his<BR>

body around. He is  7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is so<BR>

happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and<BR>

frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in our<BR>

area that deals with autism and behavior problems.<BR>

<BR>

I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation also<BR>

(like lithium)?<BR>

<BR>

We could sure use some answers!<BR>

<BR>

Thanks for your info,<BR>

Dawn<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<br><br>

<tt>

=======================================================<BR>

[Guest guest]

My son has been acting like the person's child in the below

message. He has been extremely hyper, having tantrums and fits and

throwing himself around and making this horrible sound while pushing

on his face. He seems perfectly happy but he is acting crazy! We

are using TD-DMPS though. If anyone figures out why this is

happening, please let me know!!

>

> In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation

nightmare " , I

> took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

> treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last

ten

> days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

> minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing

his

> body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is

so

> happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

> frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in

our

> area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

>

> I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation

also

> (like lithium)?

>

> We could sure use some answers!

>

> Thanks for your info,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

I don't have any real answers but is it possible this is a sign of to high a

dosage or maybe just the release of all his toxins to travel out of his body???

I've been told when this happens to lower the dosage and just be patient because

you are losening the toxins so that they will pass out of the body and no longer

be stored so deep in fatty tissue.

dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote: My son has been acting

like the person's child in the below

message. He has been extremely hyper, having tantrums and fits and

throwing himself around and making this horrible sound while pushing

on his face. He seems perfectly happy but he is acting crazy! We

are using TD-DMPS though. If anyone figures out why this is

happening, please let me know!!

>

> In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation

nightmare " , I

> took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

> treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last

ten

> days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

> minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing

his

> body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is

so

> happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

> frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in

our

> area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

>

> I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation

also

> (like lithium)?

>

> We could sure use some answers!

>

> Thanks for your info,

> Dawn

>

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

sorry to interfere but how exactly is every four hours better than every eight,

won't that be like doubling what ever dosage he's on per day???

jromkema <jromkema@...> wrote: Are you doing this every 8 hours or

every four? Supplementing minerals? A

low enough dose?

Low and slow is the way to go and with DMSA, 4 hours is much better than 8.

Also, high dose does not pull a lot more mercury, so go as low as you can

but still be effective. Mineral supplementation is KEY and also lots of

water!

Barb

(an old-timer who's been on here since the spring of 2000.)

[ ] Re: our chelation nightmare

> In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation nightmare " , I

> took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

> treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last ten

> days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

> minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing his

> body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is so

> happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

> frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in our

> area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

>

> I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation also

> (like lithium)?

>

> We could sure use some answers!

>

> Thanks for your info,

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

is lithium something the body needs???

joshisims <joshisims@...> wrote: Hello Carla

I am so sorry for you and your son. This sounds so scary.

It would be very helpful if you could give us specifics about your

dose and timing, as these are critical. A detailed list of your

supplements might help, too.

Most DAN! doctors don't use the protocol promoted on this group,

which was was developed by Cutler. He is a chemist who knows

a good deal about chelators, and developed a chelation protocol when

he suffered mercury poisoning. His protocol uses a very small dose

of chelator given strictly on the half life to avoid redistribution

of heavy metals to the brain and other vulnerable areas. Minerals,

antioxidants and other supplements are given frequently both on " on "

days and " off " days to keep the child comfortable. Many people who

report adverse reactions to chelation do very well when they switch

to this protocol, which was designed for safety. I apaolgize if you

already know all of this.

I checked the archives and noticed that Andy doesn't believe that

chelators deplete lithium. I'm not a chemist so I don't have any

personal opinions on this.

take care

René

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am

sorry

> to have to give you this information. However, I think it is

> imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the

> consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.

>

> We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3 days

> on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention in

> preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and we

> continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one of

> the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

>

> About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings

> w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen and

> weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14 days

> after we had started the first round.

>

> He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6 days

> after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He

began

> screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He seemed

> absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit still.

> He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now has

> a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches from

> his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him even

> though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept

> little and ate little.

>

> This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in my

> life.

>

> Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to a

> very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that the

> DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into an

> episode of mania.

>

> She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has continued

> to improve over the last few days since we started the medication.

As

> glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a

> situation I'd wish on anyone.

>

> If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could

> happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to predict

> which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our DAN

> doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his

> lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

>

> BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The

dosage

> was correct for my son's body weight.

>

> I thought you guys should know about this.

>

> Carla

>

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

>

> My son has been acting like the person's child in the below

> message. He has been extremely hyper, having tantrums and fits and

> throwing himself around and making this horrible sound while pushing

> on his face. He seems perfectly happy but he is acting crazy! We

> are using TD-DMPS though. If anyone figures out why this is

> happening, please let me know!!

>

Dannene,

I do know that some kids do not tolerate the DMPS carrier. Perhaps

you should consider that. I would also check his supps carefully,

and, as is always recommended, check the yeast protocol. How much are

you dosing? If he seems happy that may not be the problem, but it is

an easy thing to cut back for one round to see if it helps. (A lot

easier than revamping supps.)

Best wishes,

Anita

[Guest guest]

No, you don't give as much. How high of a dose did they tell you??

DMSA has a four-hour half-life, meaning that the blood level will drop after

that amount of time. If you go for eight hours, you run the risk of

redistributing the mercury to other parts of the brain and body.

Barb

[ ] Re: our chelation nightmare

> In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation nightmare " , I

> took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

> treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last ten

> days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

> minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing his

> body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is so

> happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

> frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in our

> area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

>

> I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation also

> (like lithium)?

>

> We could sure use some answers!

>

> Thanks for your info,

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

My first question is whether the DMPS is being used every 8 hours and

the DMSA every 4, day and night. If not, that is the problem. Anyone

who wants to make their kid worse instead of better can easily do it

by using chelators wrong. The basic chemical properties of the

chelators do not change when a doctor prescribes them improperly.

Andy . . . . . . .

>

> My son has been acting like the person's child in the below

> message. He has been extremely hyper, having tantrums and fits and

> throwing himself around and making this horrible sound while pushing

> on his face. He seems perfectly happy but he is acting crazy! We

> are using TD-DMPS though. If anyone figures out why this is

> happening, please let me know!!

>

>

> >

> > In reference to your message dated March 22, " chelation

> nightmare " , I

> > took notice right away. Our son has been using the DMSA topical

> > treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6 weeks. In the last

> ten

> > days has been having " fits " almost every day. These are 20-30

> > minutes in length and consist of crying, screaming, and throwing

> his

> > body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs. Generally, he is

> so

> > happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself stressed and

> > frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a specialist here in

> our

> > area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

> >

> > I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from some deprivation

> also

> > (like lithium)?

> >

> > We could sure use some answers!

> >

> > Thanks for your info,

> > Dawn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The 4 hour dose is 1/2 the 8 hour dose.

Doctor generally prescribe a higher dose than

many on this list use.

--- Tina Payton <amamteews@...> wrote:

> sorry to interfere but how exactly is every four

> hours better than every eight, won't that be like

> doubling what ever dosage he's on per day???

>

> jromkema <jromkema@...> wrote: Are you

> doing this every 8 hours or every four?

> Supplementing minerals? A

> low enough dose?

>

> Low and slow is the way to go and with DMSA, 4 hours

> is much better than 8.

>

> Also, high dose does not pull a lot more mercury, so

> go as low as you can

> but still be effective. Mineral supplementation is

> KEY and also lots of

> water!

>

> Barb

> (an old-timer who's been on here since the spring of

> 2000.)

> [ ] Re: our chelation

> nightmare

>

>

> > In reference to your message dated March 22,

> " chelation nightmare " , I

> > took notice right away. Our son has been using the

> DMSA topical

> > treatment (3 days on-4 days off) for the last 6

> weeks. In the last ten

> > days has been having " fits " almost every day.

> These are 20-30

> > minutes in length and consist of crying,

> screaming, and throwing his

> > body around. He is 7 yr. old and weighs 65 lbs.

> Generally, he is so

> > happy. I can hardly handle him and I find myself

> stressed and

> > frustrated! I have made arrangements to see a

> specialist here in our

> > area that deals with autism and behavior problems.

> >

> > I can't help but wonder if he is suffering from

> some deprivation also

> > (like lithium)?

> >

> > We could sure use some answers!

> >

> > Thanks for your info,

> > Dawn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

=======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

Andy does not believe that chelators deplete vitamins or minerals, but I

respectfully disagree with this. I personally witnessed dmsa draining the zinc,

for ours.

Re: [ ] Re: our chelation nightmare

is lithium something the body needs???

joshisims <joshisims@...> wrote: Hello Carla

I am so sorry for you and your son. This sounds so scary.

It would be very helpful if you could give us specifics about your

dose and timing, as these are critical. A detailed list of your

supplements might help, too.

Most DAN! doctors don't use the protocol promoted on this group,

which was was developed by Cutler. He is a chemist who knows

a good deal about chelators, and developed a chelation protocol when

he suffered mercury poisoning. His protocol uses a very small dose

of chelator given strictly on the half life to avoid redistribution

of heavy metals to the brain and other vulnerable areas. Minerals,

antioxidants and other supplements are given frequently both on " on "

days and " off " days to keep the child comfortable. Many people who

report adverse reactions to chelation do very well when they switch

to this protocol, which was designed for safety. I apaolgize if you

already know all of this.

I checked the archives and noticed that Andy doesn't believe that

chelators deplete lithium. I'm not a chemist so I don't have any

personal opinions on this.

take care

René

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am

sorry

> to have to give you this information. However, I think it is

> imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the

> consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.

>

> We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3 days

> on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention in

> preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and we

> continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one of

> the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

>

> About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings

> w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen and

> weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14 days

> after we had started the first round.

>

> He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6 days

> after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He

began

> screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He seemed

> absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit still.

> He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now has

> a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches from

> his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him even

> though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept

> little and ate little.

>

> This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in my

> life.

>

> Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to a

> very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that the

> DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into an

> episode of mania.

>

> She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has continued

> to improve over the last few days since we started the medication.

As

> glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a

> situation I'd wish on anyone.

>

> If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could

> happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to predict

> which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our DAN

> doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his

> lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

>

> BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The

dosage

> was correct for my son's body weight.

>

> I thought you guys should know about this.

>

> Carla

>

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

From what I know, the brain needs lithium. Those who suffer bipolar

and schizophrenia are treated with lithium and noted to not have

enough of it. It aids in brain function some how.

> >

> > Hi, everyone,

> >

> > I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am

> sorry

> > to have to give you this information. However, I think it is

> > imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the

> > consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.

> >

> > We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3

days

> > on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention

in

> > preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and

we

> > continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one

of

> > the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

> >

> > About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings

> > w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen

and

> > weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14

days

> > after we had started the first round.

> >

> > He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6

days

> > after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He

> began

> > screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He

seemed

> > absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit

still.

> > He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now

has

> > a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches

from

> > his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him

even

> > though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept

> > little and ate little.

> >

> > This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in

my

> > life.

> >

> > Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to

a

> > very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that

the

> > DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into

an

> > episode of mania.

> >

> > She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has

continued

> > to improve over the last few days since we started the

medication.

> As

> > glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a

> > situation I'd wish on anyone.

> >

> > If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could

> > happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to

predict

> > which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our

DAN

> > doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his

> > lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

> >

> > BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The

> dosage

> > was correct for my son's body weight.

> >

> > I thought you guys should know about this.

> >

> > Carla

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Lithium is used pharmacologiclaly. These people do not have a

deficiency and the amounts used are dramatically higher than those

required to correct any theoretical deficiency.

Andy. . ..

> From what I know, the brain needs lithium. Those who suffer bipolar

> and schizophrenia are treated with lithium and noted to not have

> enough of it. It aids in brain function some how.

>

> > >

> > > Hi, everyone,

> > >

> > > I know some of you have had good results with chelation so I am

> > sorry

> > > to have to give you this information. However, I think it is

> > > imperative that the group know about our recent experience as the

> > > consequences of chelation in our case were very serious.

> > >

> > > We began chelating our 4 yo mid Feb. w/TD-DMSA. We were doing 3

> days

> > > on, 11 days off. We had done months of nutritional intervention

> in

> > > preparation. He had months of good minerals before chelation and

> we

> > > continued the minerals on the off days. We were working with one

> of

> > > the most well respected DAN doctors out there.

> > >

> > > About a week after the first round, we noticed some mood swings

> > > w/alternate giggling and crying. But we knew this could happen

> and

> > > weren't too concerned. We went ahead with the second round 14

> days

> > > after we had started the first round.

> > >

> > > He started crying more and became increasingly anxious. About 6

> days

> > > after we had started the second round, all hell broke loose. He

> > began

> > > screaming and chanting nearly every second he was awake. He

> seemed

> > > absolutely terrified. He wanted to be held but could not sit

> still.

> > > He was climbing all over us. He bit himself so many times he now

> has

> > > a bruise on his arm that covers the top of his arm and reaches

> from

> > > his wrist nearly up to his elbow. We weren't able to stop him

> even

> > > though he was never alone. He bit us too and drew blood. He slept

> > > little and ate little.

> > >

> > > This went on for an entire week. I have never been so afraid in

> my

> > > life.

> > >

> > > Finally, after this had gone on for several days, we took him to

> a

> > > very well respected pediatric neurologist. Her theory was that

> the

> > > DMSA had chelated the lithium out of his body and sent him into

> an

> > > episode of mania.

> > >

> > > She prescribed a low dose of lithium and it worked. He has

> continued

> > > to improve over the last few days since we started the

> medication.

> > As

> > > glad as I am that he's better, having a 4yo on lithium is not a

> > > situation I'd wish on anyone.

> > >

> > > If this happened to us, I have to assume it's possible it could

> > > happen to someone else. I don't know if there's any way to

> predict

> > > which children could respond this way. Before we chelated, our

> DAN

> > > doctor did a comprehensive blood test on our son and she says his

> > > lithium levels were on the high side of normal.

> > >

> > > BTW, I did check w/the pharmacist who compounded the DMSA. The

> > dosage

> > > was correct for my son's body weight.

> > >

> > > I thought you guys should know about this.

> > >

> > > Carla

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

So is the issue the body's ability to use it rather than whether they have

enough naturally?

S S

<tt>

Lithium is used pharmacologiclaly.  These people do not have a<BR>

deficiency and the amounts used are dramatically higher than those<BR>

required to correct any theoretical deficiency.<BR>

<BR>

Andy. . .. <BR>

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[Guest guest]

What dose and dosing schedule are you using? What's his diet like? What yeast

protocol are you using?

S S

<BR>

><BR>

> My son has been acting like the person's child in the below <BR>

> message.  He has been extremely hyper, having tantrums and fits and <BR>

> throwing himself around and making this horrible sound while pushing <BR>

> on his face.  He seems perfectly happy but he is acting crazy!  We <BR>

> are using TD-DMPS though.  If anyone figures out why this is <BR>

> happening, please let me know!!<BR>

> <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Dannene,<BR>

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