Re: I am going to lose it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

November 28, 2005

I have a friend I met in a special therapeutic playgroup 2 years ago in

December. Her son was 2 1/2 then and didn't speak at all. He's 4 1/2 now and

is

just starting to make sounds. He gets 20 hours of ABA and 4 hours of speech.

I don't know if its the therapy, the therapist or the child but personally

I would change something. Can you request a different therapist? maybe

someone with a different style or approach can get more from your child?

Good luck

Kerrie

In a message dated 11/28/2005 5:41:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dannenedrummond@... writes:

After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

(http://paulchelation.blogspot.com/)

November 28, 2005

In a message dated 28/11/2005 22:41:54 GMT Standard Time,

dannenedrummond@... writes:

After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

>>Speech therapists don;t teach kids to speak................IMHO (confirmed

by 3 SALTS)

Whats 'in it for him' to make these sounds for you? Sounds pretty boring to

me. My son is non verbal - look at it from his point of view - why should he?

Consider PECS or Verbal behaviour, sign - he needs to communicate before he

will have the desire to communicate. Making the noise, sign or exchange has to

be meaningful - use of motivators/reinforcers give him a reason to do it

when he starts, the idea is he will see how powerful words are for HIM.

My son communicates brilliantly but the little bugger won't talk LOL I don;t

get hung up about it now, it will come, communication is more importnat than

the actual words.

Ask the therapist if she is trying to teach him to talk and if she says yes

- ask her how?

Mandi x

November 28, 2005

Does your son have apraxia?

>

> After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

> and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

> lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he

says

> nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

> speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

> heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

> problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

>

November 28, 2005

I think you might see a lot of improvements with a course of Berard AIT. AIT

works for some an not for others. There is no way to know who will benefit.

While my daughter spoke, she did have an extremely severe case of

hyperacussis and she does have discrimination issues. We see that when she

learns a new word from a cartoon character or from a voice-over or when she

can't see our mouths. Before AIT, she was so bothered by the loudness around

her that she tuned everything and everyone out, and had temper tantrums

first thing in the morning. AIT changed that and we credit it for the huge

jump in language and academics during the year that followed. It's the best

$1200 we've gambled.

Best wishes,

--

Rima Regas

Mom to Leah, age 7 (AS, DSI and APD)

http://www.sensoryintegrationhelp.com

On 11/28/05, dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote:

>

> After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

> and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

> lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

> nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

> speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

> heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

> problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

>

> =======================================================

>

November 28, 2005

Hi,

I'm an MA CCC-SLP - how old is your son? Can he say any vowel sounds (even

" ahh " or " e " )? How are is oral motor skills? Can he imitate gross and fine

motor movements? How about oral motor movements? Has he been diagnosed w/

apraxia / dyspraxia? Is he a mouth stuffer when he eats? Is he a picky eater?

A sloppy eater? Can he drink from a straw? Blow a horn? Who are your SLPs -

did your county provide them? Are they CCC or CFY? How long has he been with

each?

Jenn

dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote:

After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

=======================================================

November 28, 2005

Hi.....don't loose it...just be very,very patient with your child yes i have

been through this with my son and i know this isn't easy for u and ur

child....it's late here in the uk and i just read ur message.so pleasr email me

if u want.and we can talk more on kiziford1@... Every new sound that

your child makes or learns is such a big achievment that u should be so

pleased.it's not going to happen as quickly as u want..it will take

time.....patience is a vertue!!! Believe me it pays off in the end.I will

explain more when we talk hopefully....but hang in there and be hopeful!! Kizi x

anneecbrynn <abrynn@...> wrote: Does your son have apraxia?

>

> After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

> and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

> lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he

says

> nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

> speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

> heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

> problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

>

=======================================================

November 28, 2005

Hi jennifer,may i ask how old your son is please? My son is a very poor,sloppy

eater and very poor diet bu a lot better than what he used to be.I'm in the U,K

Meade <jenniferdmeade@...> wrote: Hi,

I'm an MA CCC-SLP - how old is your son? Can he say any vowel sounds (even

" ahh " or " e " )? How are is oral motor skills? Can he imitate gross and fine

motor movements? How about oral motor movements? Has he been diagnosed w/

apraxia / dyspraxia? Is he a mouth stuffer when he eats? Is he a picky eater?

A sloppy eater? Can he drink from a straw? Blow a horn? Who are your SLPs -

did your county provide them? Are they CCC or CFY? How long has he been with

each?

Jenn

dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote:

After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

=======================================================

November 28, 2005

hi there agian yes my son has Apraxia.Dyspraxia,Dyslexic,ADHD,and Asperger's

Syndrome.

Meade <jenniferdmeade@...> wrote: Hi,

I'm an MA CCC-SLP - how old is your son? Can he say any vowel sounds (even

" ahh " or " e " )? How are is oral motor skills? Can he imitate gross and fine

motor movements? How about oral motor movements? Has he been diagnosed w/

apraxia / dyspraxia? Is he a mouth stuffer when he eats? Is he a picky eater?

A sloppy eater? Can he drink from a straw? Blow a horn? Who are your SLPs -

did your county provide them? Are they CCC or CFY? How long has he been with

each?

Jenn

dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote:

After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

=======================================================

November 28, 2005

To reply to everyone's questions:

About changing therapists...we have so many times now!

Is it apraxia? Some have said yes and most have said no. Most say

it is an articulation problem.

About berard AIT...never heard of it. I'll google it!

how old is your son? almost 4

Can he say any vowel sounds? he can say some. He can't say all of

them, especially E O and I (long vowels)

How are is oral motor skills? They are OK. It took forever to get

him off a bottle (3!) and he finally can drink from a cup and use a

straw

Can he imitate gross and fine

motor movements? Yes

How about oral motor movements? no

Has he been diagnosed w/

apraxia / dyspraxia? yes but not by speech people. SLP's usually

say it's an articulation problem, not a motor planning problem.

they say he doesn't grope for words but i think he kind of does.

Is he a mouth stuffer when he eats? yes

Is he a picky eater? yes

A sloppy eater? not really

Can he drink from a straw? yes but he bites

Blow a horn? yes but he bites!

Who are your SLPs -

did your county provide them? 4xs a week at school and 2x for a half

hour with a private person

Are they CCC or CFY? no clue!

How long has he been with

each? his private one he has been with for about 5 months. the one

at school for maybe 2 months now.

Thanks for any input you have!!!

November 28, 2005

How old is your son? Did they test his hearing? I realize that you want him to

talk but has anyone considered giving him access to an alternative form of

communication (sign language, PECS, or a communication device) while work

continues on speech? How's his receptive? Does he understand when others talk

to him? Do you see behaviors due to communication challenges? Have you

withheld (by putting out of reach) favorite items until he makes some

approximation, praising each? Does he have verbal siblings? Is he around other

verbal kids?

S S

After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

=======================================================

November 28, 2005

Here are some of my favorite AIT links.

http://www.autism.org/ait.html

http://www.autism.org/ait2.html

http://64.202.182.52/saitwebsite/index.html

Rima

On 11/28/05, dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote:

>

> To reply to everyone's questions:

>

> About changing therapists...we have so many times now!

>

> Is it apraxia? Some have said yes and most have said no. Most say

> it is an articulation problem.

>

> About berard AIT...never heard of it. I'll google it!

>

> how old is your son? almost 4

> Can he say any vowel sounds? he can say some. He can't say all of

> them, especially E O and I (long vowels)

> How are is oral motor skills? They are OK. It took forever to get

> him off a bottle (3!) and he finally can drink from a cup and use a

> straw

> Can he imitate gross and fine

> motor movements? Yes

> How about oral motor movements? no

> Has he been diagnosed w/

> apraxia / dyspraxia? yes but not by speech people. SLP's usually

> say it's an articulation problem, not a motor planning problem.

> they say he doesn't grope for words but i think he kind of does.

>

> Is he a mouth stuffer when he eats? yes

> Is he a picky eater? yes

>

> A sloppy eater? not really

> Can he drink from a straw? yes but he bites

> Blow a horn? yes but he bites!

> Who are your SLPs -

> did your county provide them? 4xs a week at school and 2x for a half

> hour with a private person

> Are they CCC or CFY? no clue!

> How long has he been with

> each? his private one he has been with for about 5 months. the one

> at school for maybe 2 months now.

> Thanks for any input you have!!!

>

> =======================================================

>

November 28, 2005

There is hope: I have two boys with autism, one that won't stop talking (I'm not

complaining!) and one who turns 6 today that was non verbal up until we

started chelating 5 weeks ago. Now he is putting two and three word

sentences together. Don't give up- just because other people say that once

you hit and pass a " magic age " , that it's too late. These people are WRONG

and my son is one of the many kids out there that are dispelling that myth. My

son had three hours of speech therapy a week in addition to his teachers/

aids/ me working with him using PECS all of the time since he was three. It

wasn't until a year after intensive supplementation and now starting to chelate

that got him talking.

>

> I have a friend I met in a special therapeutic playgroup 2 years ago in

> December. Her son was 2 1/2 then and didn't speak at all. He's 4 1/2 now

and is

> just starting to make sounds. He gets 20 hours of ABA and 4 hours of

speech.

> I don't know if its the therapy, the therapist or the child but personally

> I would change something. Can you request a different therapist? maybe

> someone with a different style or approach can get more from your child?

>

> Good luck

>

> Kerrie

>

> In a message dated 11/28/2005 5:41:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> dannenedrummond@h... writes:

>

> After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

> and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

> lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

> nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

> speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

> heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

> problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

>

> (http://paulchelation.blogspot.com/)

>

November 28, 2005

:

How old is your son? Almost 4

Did they test his hearing? yes

I realize that you want him to

talk but has anyone considered giving him access to an alternative

form of

communication (sign language, PECS, or a communication device) while

work

continues on speech? He does PECS at school

How's his receptive? His receptive is at age level. He understands a

lot!

Does he understand when others talk

to him? yes. sometimes we'll be talking about asking him to do

something and he'll go do it because he heard us talking about it

Do you see behaviors due to communication challenges? not really. he

is getting his point across pretty well

Have you

withheld (by putting out of reach) favorite items until he makes some

approximation, praising each? he always tries to say things. he never

says them right. it is always the n's d's and t's.

Does he have verbal siblings? no, his sister is 1

Is he around other

verbal kids? no, his class is 4 other children with autism, 3 are

nonverbal!

November 28, 2005

Thanks , I needed to hear a story like that. My son won't

start chelation until January. Our doctor insists on him being on the

diet for 6 weeks prior (he was tested for food sensitivities and had

reactions to everything). We also supplement with the supernuthera

but the doctor wants us to switch to brain child nutrients. This is

all new to me and I hope it works. My son is so smart and he tries to

say everything so it makes me think that nothing is going to help

because he is already trying but just not clear. Hopefully I'll have

a similar story to tell in a few months

November 28, 2005

Hi Again,

Your son sounds a lot like mine - he is 3 tries to say some things but

can't... It definitley sounds like he may well be apraxic and have some sensory

issues. Have you tried PROMPT therapy specifically for apraxia? Of course I'm

keeping my fingers crossed that both of our kids will start yaking it up due to

chelation... :-)

dannenedrummond <dannenedrummond@...> wrote:

To reply to everyone's questions:

About changing therapists...we have so many times now!

Is it apraxia? Some have said yes and most have said no. Most say

it is an articulation problem.

About berard AIT...never heard of it. I'll google it!

how old is your son? almost 4

Can he say any vowel sounds? he can say some. He can't say all of

them, especially E O and I (long vowels)

How are is oral motor skills? They are OK. It took forever to get

him off a bottle (3!) and he finally can drink from a cup and use a

straw

Can he imitate gross and fine

motor movements? Yes

How about oral motor movements? no

Has he been diagnosed w/

apraxia / dyspraxia? yes but not by speech people. SLP's usually

say it's an articulation problem, not a motor planning problem.

they say he doesn't grope for words but i think he kind of does.

Is he a mouth stuffer when he eats? yes

Is he a picky eater? yes

A sloppy eater? not really

Can he drink from a straw? yes but he bites

Blow a horn? yes but he bites!

Who are your SLPs -

did your county provide them? 4xs a week at school and 2x for a half

hour with a private person

Are they CCC or CFY? no clue!

How long has he been with

each? his private one he has been with for about 5 months. the one

at school for maybe 2 months now.

Thanks for any input you have!!!

=======================================================

November 28, 2005

My daughter started talking 5 days after we removed dairy, within 2

mos she had 100+ vocab. Don't ever stop biological treatments, they

can be huge!

Debi

>

> Thanks , I needed to hear a story like that. My son won't

> start chelation until January. Our doctor insists on him being on the

> diet for 6 weeks prior (he was tested for food sensitivities and had

> reactions to everything). We also supplement with the supernuthera

> but the doctor wants us to switch to brain child nutrients. This is

> all new to me and I hope it works. My son is so smart and he tries to

> say everything so it makes me think that nothing is going to help

> because he is already trying but just not clear. Hopefully I'll have

> a similar story to tell in a few months

>

November 28, 2005

I've heard of PROMPT but never looked into it. I will check it out!

For a long time I thought Zach had apraxia (and not autism). When he

was diagnosed with autism I stopped looking into the apraxia. I asked

all of his STs if they thought he had it too and they all say no. It

really seemed like he had it because he didn't drink out of a bottle

correctly and couldn't drink out of a cup until he was 3. His mouth

just doesn't seem to get it. He looks right at me when I say " say ma "

and says " na " and doesn't even attempt to close his mouth. speech

therapists have been working on it for 2 years and he still won't do

it! they can get him to say mmmmm, but not with a vowel. it has just

been so long that it is getting to me, ya know?

November 28, 2005

---

I agree with Debi! My son went from words to sentences very quickly

after the gfcf diet. It started out as an elimination diet, until I

could figure out what he could tolerate (trial and error worked

better than the food tolerance test for us). It was tough, but the

best things have come from this.

Stacey

In , " Debi " <fightingautism@y...>

wrote:

>

> My daughter started talking 5 days after we removed dairy, within 2

> mos she had 100+ vocab. Don't ever stop biological treatments, they

> can be huge!

>

> Debi

>

> >

> > Thanks , I needed to hear a story like that. My son won't

> > start chelation until January. Our doctor insists on him being

on the

> > diet for 6 weeks prior (he was tested for food sensitivities and

had

> > reactions to everything). We also supplement with the

supernuthera

> > but the doctor wants us to switch to brain child nutrients. This

is

> > all new to me and I hope it works. My son is so smart and he

tries to

> > say everything so it makes me think that nothing is going to help

> > because he is already trying but just not clear. Hopefully I'll

have

> > a similar story to tell in a few months

> >

>

November 28, 2005

[ ] Re: I am going to lose it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is hope: I have two boys with autism, one that won't stop talking (I'm

not

complaining!) and one who turns 6 today that was non verbal up until we

started chelating 5 weeks ago. Now he is putting two and three word

sentences together. Don't give up- just because other people say that once

you hit and pass a " magic age " , that it's too late. These people are WRONG

and my son is one of the many kids out there that are dispelling that myth. My

son had three hours of speech therapy a week in addition to his teachers/

aids/ me working with him using PECS all of the time since he was three. It

wasn't until a year after intensive supplementation and now starting to

chelate

that got him talking.

>

> I have a friend I met in a special therapeutic playgroup 2 years ago in

> December. Her son was 2 1/2 then and didn't speak at all. He's 4 1/2 now

and is

> just starting to make sounds. He gets 20 hours of ABA and 4 hours of

speech.

> I don't know if its the therapy, the therapist or the child but personally

> I would change something. Can you request a different therapist? maybe

> someone with a different style or approach can get more from your child?

>

> Good luck

>

> Kerrie

>

> In a message dated 11/28/2005 5:41:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> dannenedrummond@h... writes:

>

> After almost 2 years of speech therapy my son STILL can only say N, D

> and T sounds. He has had different therapists too. I am going to

> lose it! I say, " Say 'p'uh and he say t " I say " Say 'm'uh and he says

> nuh " It has been this way for 2 years! will he never be able to

> speak???? Are the therapists just inept here and I should move the

> heck out of here fast? I don't get it! Has anyone had this

> problem??? I feel so hopeless right now!

>

> (http://paulchelation.blogspot.com/)

>

November 28, 2005

I'd get a DDI hair elements test and see what the results indicate. There's a

lot of wires involved in speech. Chances are your son's are mercury-impaired

simply based on the inability to speak properly despite the use of terminal

speech therapy.

Mercury detox sets the table for a lot of therapies.

[ ] Re: I am going to lose it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:

How old is your son? Almost 4

Did they test his hearing? yes

I realize that you want him to

talk but has anyone considered giving him access to an alternative

form of

communication (sign language, PECS, or a communication device) while

work

continues on speech? He does PECS at school

How's his receptive? His receptive is at age level. He understands a

lot!

Does he understand when others talk

to him? yes. sometimes we'll be talking about asking him to do

something and he'll go do it because he heard us talking about it

Do you see behaviors due to communication challenges? not really. he

is getting his point across pretty well

Have you

withheld (by putting out of reach) favorite items until he makes some

approximation, praising each? he always tries to say things. he never

says them right. it is always the n's d's and t's.

Does he have verbal siblings? no, his sister is 1

Is he around other

verbal kids? no, his class is 4 other children with autism, 3 are

nonverbal!

=======================================================

November 29, 2005

I go along with the motivation factor too. I always felt that K did not

" lose " language at 2 yrs, he just stopped being interested in using it. This

always drew odd looks from professionals.

He is in fact pretty verbal nowadays, but always on his own terms. School

teacher has said that whilst he can completely refuse to comply to their

agenda, she will later hear him muttering answers to the Year 2 questions (he is

reception age) under his breath. Our biggest step forward in language came

when K was shell shocked to hear his younger brother speak - be began to be more

verbal within 24 hrs. Receptive language still a bugger to assess - he

just avoids co-operation with any assessments, no outright defiance, just

wanders off, or states " I don't think this is a good idea " Although he is

verbal,

it is not natural sounding, and has no easy flow to it. His little brother (

3 going on 10yrs old) is turning out to be a marvellous role model, although

it is hard going on him, as he very rarely gets much of an award for all the

effort he puts it. He has taken to explaining his big brothers odd

behaviour and lack of response " This is my brother Kieran, but he is a bit shy

really " , when we meet someone new. K has much more speech than he does a

desire to

interact or show interest in other people. Whilst I am proud of his speech,

it cuts me to the quick when he shows no response or recognition to

overtures from friends children, often not even acknowledging their presence in

the

room. So whilst he can recite nursery rhymes etc., his communication is far

more limited than many children who speak far less. He is still my little

star though, and like many others, we really celebrate the little things that

others take for granted. I also love reading little anecdotes from other

listmates about the smiley moments in life. I love Stanley Greenspans take on

the

motivation and interaction, have not read his book for a while, but now feel

inspired to go back to it.

I wouldn't take lack of achievement with the SLP so far as indicating any

hopelessness - perhaps just a different tac needed, as many others have

described. It is hard on parents though, trying to be animated and encouraging

therapists, as well as parents/workers etc.

Good Luck, and take heart from all those who have had success with language

acquisition at a later stage than is the " perceived wisdom " of the window of

opportunity.

Sue (Manchester)

November 29, 2005

I'm with Mandi on this one. Unless a child with autism is apraxic or

has some other physical impediment, not speaking almost invariably

seems to be related to a lack of MOTIVATION.

When my little guy--also 4 and also very communicative in non-verbal

ways--is highly motivated to get something (and doesn't get it right

away), he produces perfect spontaneous words. But when we try to get

him to imitate a word or a sound without a reward system, just like

your guy, he says b for m, t for d, w for y (he's good with vowels

though).

Communication is " More Than Words, " which is also the title by a

wonderful speech manual by Fern Sussman based on the Hanen method. I

recommend it. It is a great synthesis of ABA, floortime, and

traditional speech parctices. Kaufman Echoics is a good idea too, as

Kenny suggested, but I think SLPs need to parctice it.

Also remember: Stanley Greenspan (creator of the DIR/floortime

method) writes that a child has to be able to complete about

15 " circles of communication " consecutively before they can start

verbalizing. So there is an element of INTERACTION there as well.

Learning to interact. Being motivated to interact.

Whether we like it or not, our children with autism are very

utilitarian: " What's in it for me? " as Mandi put it succintly.

And just like Mandi, I am not worried, as long as my child

communicates in other ways. He will eventually verbalize, I have no

doubt about it. If your child is also communicating in other ways,

he will most likely talk eventually. Age 4 is not that late.

Finally, intensive practice with blends of vowels and consonants

(babababa, bee beee, boo boo boo, dadada, deedeedee, doodoodoo) in

an ABA format with a reward system helped my child transfer that

stuff into babbling. Ever since they've been doing blends his vocal

play and babbling has increased significantly.

We're in the same boat. I wish you good luck and much patience.

Beti

> >>Speech therapists don;t teach kids to speak................IMHO

(confirmed

> by 3 SALTS)

>

> Whats 'in it for him' to make these sounds for you? Sounds pretty

boring to

> me. My son is non verbal - look at it from his point of view - why

should he?

>

> Consider PECS or Verbal behaviour, sign - he needs to communicate

before he

> will have the desire to communicate. Making the noise, sign or

exchange has to

> be meaningful - use of motivators/reinforcers give him a reason

to do it

> when he starts, the idea is he will see how powerful words are

for HIM.

>

> My son communicates brilliantly but the little bugger won't talk

LOL I don;t

> get hung up about it now, it will come, communication is more

importnat than

> the actual words.

>

> Ask the therapist if she is trying to teach him to talk and if she

says yes

> - ask her how?

>

> Mandi x

>

November 29, 2005

I'm working with a young man w/dx of AS who speaks very little even though he

knows 3 languages and reads well. He used to speak but regressed. I typed out

some questions about what noises bother him/hurt his ears which he answered

today. He indicated that men's voices, women's voices, and children's voices

among other things hurt his ears/bother him but that his own voice does not. He

wrote that this had been the case since age 3. He mumbles responses when asked

questions verbally, so I now suspect (but will ask) that he mumbles so (or

hoping) that others will stop asking him questions. His father was aware that

some of the noises he identified hurt his ears but not aware of others.

I'm with Mandi on this one. Unless a child with autism is apraxic or

has some other physical impediment, not speaking almost invariably

seems to be related to a lack of MOTIVATION.

When my little guy--also 4 and also very communicative in non-verbal

ways--is highly motivated to get something (and doesn't get it right

away), he produces perfect spontaneous words. But when we try to get

him to imitate a word or a sound without a reward system, just like

your guy, he says b for m, t for d, w for y (he's good with vowels

though).

Communication is " More Than Words, " which is also the title by a

wonderful speech manual by Fern Sussman based on the Hanen method. I

recommend it. It is a great synthesis of ABA, floortime, and

traditional speech parctices. Kaufman Echoics is a good idea too, as

Kenny suggested, but I think SLPs need to parctice it.

Also remember: Stanley Greenspan (creator of the DIR/floortime

method) writes that a child has to be able to complete about

15 " circles of communication " consecutively before they can start

verbalizing. So there is an element of INTERACTION there as well.

Learning to interact. Being motivated to interact.

Whether we like it or not, our children with autism are very

utilitarian: " What's in it for me? " as Mandi put it succintly.

And just like Mandi, I am not worried, as long as my child

communicates in other ways. He will eventually verbalize, I have no

doubt about it. If your child is also communicating in other ways,

he will most likely talk eventually. Age 4 is not that late.

Finally, intensive practice with blends of vowels and consonants

(babababa, bee beee, boo boo boo, dadada, deedeedee, doodoodoo) in

an ABA format with a reward system helped my child transfer that

stuff into babbling. Ever since they've been doing blends his vocal

play and babbling has increased significantly.

We're in the same boat. I wish you good luck and much patience.

Beti

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November 29, 2005

I am new here and I have a daughter that has ASD, probably milder than most of

you here, but I treat patients from a wide spectrum as a chiropractor. In

reading between the lines here, we may be seeing something about autistic people

that we can relate to in a different way. I see a young man who says that he

does not want to hear voices because it is painful, so he mumbles to avoid

hearing voices. This is really what I see in other areas that are not as

complex...perhaps some form of antalgia. To avoid pain, you avoid the stimulus.

If people do not talk to you, and you do not feel that pain, then why on earth

would you want to do anythng to encourage them to talk to you? It may not be a

lack of motivation as much as a self-defense mechanism to deal with this

syndrome in the only way possible. My daughter does well with voices, but loud

sounds scare GREATLY. We live far away from the city and the highway due to

this very reason. Horses calm her, and they help her gait by encouraging

balance. So she has a pony. I do not want to presume anything about a person I

do not know or have not examined, but it is possible that this is not a lack of

motivation as much as self-protection.

Jeff Cunningham, DC