Re: Gearing up for chelation - am I missing anything?

[Guest guest]

Hello Jutta,

I am a mom to a nine year old too.. Less functioning than yours

but a happy child. I know what you mean when you say " I feel that I

> have exhausted all biomedical means of helping my son. " But there

are some product that may help that I have use or are using. I

will either send you to page where you can shop for them or read

about them.

http://www.iherb.com/attention.html I used this one for a while

http://www.iherb.com/attentivechild.html... I would read about these

products -you know your son best.

The other thing I am using is 5-HTP It is converted in to serotonin

and is only converted if needed. I like that rather than giving a

SSRI drug. I would start here but there is a ton of reading you

could do about serotonin.. We call 5 HTP our happy pill at my house-

I take it on days where I know I will be stressed and I always feel

better.

http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm

And this is also more reading

http://www.hosppract.com/issues/1999/07/gershon.htm

About your supplement list I did not see an everyday multivitamin

and I like to rotate EFA.s and complete EFA, and sunflower oil. I

shop at iHerb a lot and will send you the pages but one may sound

better to you.. Because you know your son best.

As for waiting for test results and starting Chelation-- the hardest

part about chelation is starting and being so scared... But the

exposure was there and the antisocial behavior is a symptom of

mercury poisoning... I believe a lifetime of this poison in the body

makes for a short and miserable life.

I have to go now but will leave you with my favorite paper in case

you have not read it

http://puterakembara.org/rm/Dr_Jepson.pdf

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 29/11/2005 15:05:04 GMT Standard Time,

m.chelap@... writes:

was wondering about yeast too. Are a lot of people just assuming yeast and

treating for

it? On round? When getting off a round? We are about to start with DMSA

only.

>>>I think Candex is a good preventative - we give in the night doses so his

tummy is empty coz he is a grazer. Lots of probiotics too

We have been at this so long nnow and yeasty has been kickedm into touch -

the only way I can tell now if he is brewing something is a litte hyper and he

wets the bed IF he has yeast and I gave Candex

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

> http://www.iherb.com/attention.html I used this one for a while

> http://www.iherb.com/attentivechild.html... I would read about

these

> products -you know your son best.

Which one did you use? What did it do for your son? Some of these

have ingredients he is already taking, but not all and not at the

same dosage. I have read some about DMAE, but someone here posted

that it caused painful erections for their son, and that scared me

too much.

> The other thing I am using is 5-HTP It is converted in to

serotonin

> and is only converted if needed.

I'm going to read up on that. Thanks for the link!

> About your supplement list I did not see an everyday multivitamin

He used to take one before I started the supplements on my list. I

thought it would get too complicated with dosages and such if I had

a multi in the mix. Are most people adding that to individual

vitamins?

> As for waiting for test results and starting Chelation-- the

hardest

> part about chelation is starting and being so scared...

No kidding. That's why I didn't get started sooner. Right now I feel

like I'm ready though.

Thanks for the link on that paper. I will print that one out. It's

a good overview of things.

Jutta

[Guest guest]

> How much does your son weigh? Milk thistle?

He weighs 75 lbs on my bathroom scale. Milk thistle is on its way. I

ordered the liquid from Houstons because I figured it will be easy to

dose.

Would that be important when using just ALA? Is there a reason why

one would use just DMSA first and then add ALA later other than a

confirmend lead toxicity?

[Guest guest]

> I am waiting for my hair test results from DDI. Even before I

> ordered the test and sent in the hair I've been reading alot and

it

> took me a while to get comfortable with the thought of possible

> mercury poisoning and that I needed to do something about it if he

> had it. My dh is in the military and we are in Germany right now.

I

> don't see the Army docs helping out with tests. So, anyway, having

> to go this alone made me put if off and off.

>

> I'm a very impatient mom and once I'm ready to do something I

want

> to do it *now, LOL.

oh, I'm like that too! It takes time to make up my mind,

but once I do, watch out.

> I wonder if I could just do a round of ALA

> before the test comes in of if I need to wait.

sure you can. Although, if I've been told correctly, ALA

is NOT so easy to buy in Germany. I have been told it is

restricted there -- I think you need a prescription for it.

Or I suppose you could go buy it elsewhere? I'm not sure

how that would work. If you find it IS available over the

counter, please let me know, I try to keep track.

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_buy_DMSA.html

> He's currently taking the following supplements

> (divided in this case means in 3 doses per day, I can't do four

> since he's gone half the day at school)

You get credit, in my book, for doing 3!

>

> Magnesium 683 mg, divided

> Calcium 648 mg, most in the evening

> Zinc 20 mg, divided (7.5-7.5-5mg)

> B-50 1 tablet, divided

> Vit. E 200 IU in the morning

> Flax oil 1000mg 3 caps, divided

> Vit C, about 1500 mg, divided

> Suprema Dophilus (probiotic from Houston) 1 cap at night

> Houston all three enzymes with 90% of meals and snacks

>

> What else does he *need to be on to start?

Oh, I'm bad at this. But milk thistle is missing. It is

an herb used to support the liver.

Otherwise I will let others answer, or you can read the

SUPPLEMENTS info that is in the files

/files/

> Should I wait for the test results (DDI hair elements)?

It is okay to start out without the test.

The only thing the test might say that would really change

what are doing is if he is copper toxic, which is fairly

unlikely (but REALLY helpful to know in the few cases.)

Oh, also don't use

ALA if your child has had RECENT exposure to mercury---

like an injection with thimerosal, for example.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > How much does your son weigh? Milk thistle?

>

> He weighs 75 lbs on my bathroom scale. Milk thistle is on its way. I

> ordered the liquid from Houstons because I figured it will be easy to

> dose.

> Would that be important when using just ALA?

I would still use it or recommend it. [Then again *I* would

recommend it for most or all adults -- Anyone who drinks

alcohol socially or eats " commercial " meat, or breathes

smog, for example, could consider taking it, at least

some of the time. Boy, I'd better go take some!]

Both BEING metal toxic AND chelation are " hard on the liver " ,

so even though ALA is easy on the liver, the poor liver is

still struggling under quite a burden. So, the milk thistle

is to give it a bit of help.

You are correct, though. that ALA is easy on the liver where

DMSA is yet another stress to the liver

> Is there a reason why

> one would use just DMSA first and then add ALA later other than a

> confirmend lead toxicity?

there are lots of different reasons people pick one or

another chelation agent. It is not so critical which

one you use (with a couple of exceptions, keep reading),

so people use all sorts of reasons, and it is no biggie.

One case where it would be GOOD to start with DMSA and NOT

ALA is someone with recent mercury exposure (such as

amalgam replacement, or getting injected w/ thimerosal).

In this case it is best NOT TO use ALA for some time.

Someone who happens to KNOW that high sulfur is a problem

would go light on ALA (but then, most people do NOT know this).

Another reason would be someone who wants to " start small "

and add the " bigger guns " later. (I'd just start with a

lower dose, myself, but to each their own.)

There is also an incorrect but fairly benign idea that

circulates around that says that you SHOULD start with

DMSA alone and not use ALA till later. It seems that

many practitioners have done it this way. Some have

very specific variations on when to add the ALA.

In the case of lead toxicity, you could still use ALA with

the DMSA if you wish. Quite a few kids are BOTH lead AND mercury

toxic, or so it appears from the hair tests.....

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

ALA

> is NOT so easy to buy in Germany. I have been told it is

> restricted there -- I think you need a prescription for it.

Since we are here with the military we have access to American

products on base. I already have a bottle of ALA at home.

>

> Oh, I'm bad at this. But milk thistle is missing. It is

> an herb used to support the liver.

I have liquid milk thistle coming in the mail. Hopefully it will

get here in a few days. But do I need it with just ALA? I thought

ALA didn't stress the liver? It seems like I read that somewhere.

DMSA is bad for the liver, ALA is even good?

> The only thing the test might say that would really change

> what are doing is if he is copper toxic, which is fairly

> unlikely (but REALLY helpful to know in the few cases.)

We had a copper/zinc ratio done a few years ago (blood test). The

levels were normal. Does the copper toxicity the same symptoms as

mercury and the thought is that copper would cause the autism rather

than mercury? If so, can I then assume that his copper level is

probably still normal?

> Oh, also don't use

> ALA if your child has had RECENT exposure to mercury---

> like an injection with thimerosal, for example.

There hasn't been exposure I know of for years.

Thanks for your reply!

Jutta

[Guest guest]

> Both BEING metal toxic AND chelation are " hard on the liver " ,

> so even though ALA is easy on the liver, the poor liver is

> still struggling under quite a burden. So, the milk thistle

> is to give it a bit of help.

Okay, got it. Maybe my milk thistle will get here before Friday.

Please disregard my milk thistle and liver comments in the other

post. We were apparently typing at the same time.

> One case where it would be GOOD to start with DMSA and NOT

> ALA is someone with recent mercury exposure (such as

> amalgam replacement, or getting injected w/ thimerosal).

> In this case it is best NOT TO use ALA for some time.

He hasn't had any know exposure in years.

> Someone who happens to KNOW that high sulfur is a problem

> would go light on ALA (but then, most people do NOT know this).

Could I do serious damage if my son was high in sulfur and I didn't

know it and use ALA? Are there signs? I am planning on starting with

the lowest dose.

> There is also an incorrect but fairly benign idea that

> circulates around that says that you SHOULD start with

> DMSA alone and not use ALA till later.

I kept reading this but didn't understand why. Someone said the lead

has to come out first and then I found a post from Andy saying that

that isn't so.

I really want to get started. I am spending hours every day on the

computer reading and still feel like I'm jumping into this to fast.

On the other nothing is changing if I just sit here and gather

information and don't act.

[Guest guest]

>

> ALA

> > is NOT so easy to buy in Germany. I have been told it is

> > restricted there -- I think you need a prescription for it.

>

> Since we are here with the military we have access to American

> products on base. I already have a bottle of ALA at home.

oh, so no problem there

> > The only thing the test might say that would really change

> > what are doing is if he is copper toxic, which is fairly

> > unlikely (but REALLY helpful to know in the few cases.)

>

> We had a copper/zinc ratio done a few years ago (blood test).

Go by the hair test, not blood.

It is not a common problem though.

Moria

[Guest guest]

Jutta,

I can't help you with the supplements, but as far as the school goes, is he on

an IEP? If so, tell them you want to reveiw it and you can add your own plan

into it. You can ask for modified assignments where he doesn't have to do as

many problems (for example) if he is feeling overloaded with work and maybe

doesn't know where to start. You can also request that he has an aid with him

that would be able to keep him on task and help him if he needs it (my son has

one that he shares with a couple of other ASD kids in the class). The teacher

doesn't have time to spend on one kid, but the school is supposed to help him

out. If you need help, there should be a contact in your area that you can talk

to to try and get this situation resoved. Where I live, there is a lady whose

only job is to see that special services are being done correctly and helping

parents with their IEPs. The thing is, you are going to have to be the one to

push the school for what you want.

I hope this helps.

M

>

> From: " floydspike1993 " <floydspike1993@...>

> Date: 2005/11/29 Tue AM 06:30:22 EST

>

> Subject: [ ] Gearing up for chelation - am I missing anything?

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Oh, it is way more complex. If you really want to you

> can read the section on " thiols and sulfur " here:

> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#sulfur

I read a bunch of these posts. So high sulfur would bind to the

mercury somewhat and make it move around but not excrete it or help

excrete it. And ALA increases it. But how? I suppose the side

effects would be increased symptoms of mercury poisoning. Is this

right? Is there a way to prevent that? Take some selenium to " catch "

the mercury the thiols would be dropping?

> I would suggest that you just not worry about it at all.

Hard to do. If it was me I wouldn't care as much. But I don't want

to get my baby worse.

Thanks for your help again!

Jutta

[Guest guest]

> I can't help you with the supplements, but as far as the school

goes, is he on an IEP?

Yes, he does. The work in the classroom is not on his IEP, but the

teacher doesn't expect him to do everything. We just had a meeting

last week and agreed that she would decide what's important and what

to let go.

He goes to his resource teacher twice a day to get a break from the

busy classroom and catch up on his work.

>You can also request that he has an aid with him that would be able

to keep him on task and help him if he needs it (my son has one that

he shares with a couple of other ASD kids in the class).

He had an aide part time the year before last and hated it. That

was in first grade. Second went very well, not he's in third and the

work it getting more and more complex. Even one on one it's hard to

explain things to him. He doesn't hold the information in his head

very well or even really " gets " it sometimes.

For the hitting and fighting and other social problems he sees the

counselor weekly and they are also starting a social skills group

for him.

I don't know what else I'd want the school to do right now.

Thanks for your suggestions though. It's important to keep in mind

that the IEP can be modified at any time to suit current needs.

Jutta

[Guest guest]

>I think Candex is a good preventative - we give in the night doses so

his

tummy is empty coz he is a grazer.

Could one use No-Fenol as well? I'm just asking because it's also an

enzyme that's supposed to help with yeast and I happen to have it in

the house.

Jutta

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > Oh, it is way more complex. If you really want to you

> > can read the section on " thiols and sulfur " here:

> > http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#sulfur

>

> I read a bunch of these posts. So high sulfur would bind to the

> mercury somewhat and make it move around but not excrete it or

help

> excrete it. And ALA increases it. But how? I suppose the side

> effects would be increased symptoms of mercury poisoning. Is this

> right? Is there a way to prevent that? Take some selenium

to " catch "

> the mercury the thiols would be dropping?

>

> > I would suggest that you just not worry about it at all.

>

> Hard to do. If it was me I wouldn't care as much. But I don't

want

> to get my baby worse.

Read the whole section then, okay.

ALA and other sulfury supplements are VERY VERY HELPFUL

to some people. I think you missed this part?

It depends on whether the person is high or low sulfur to

begin with.

Moria

[Guest guest]

>ALA and other sulfury supplements are VERY VERY HELPFUL

to some people. I think you missed this part?

It depends on whether the person is high or low sulfur to

begin with.

I was looking for posts who mention ALA and sulfur. I do get that it

can be good for some and bad for others, depending. Just not knowing

if he could be high sulfur makes me nervous. I will read everything

though :-)

Jutta

[Guest guest]

Hi Jutta

Don't know if you've tried this, but if your child does eat or has

eaten any high-sulphur foods (Andy Cutler's book " Amalgam Illness... "

lists eggs, dairy -- including whey, cabbage, bok choy, broccoli,

turnips, garlic, onions, and asparagus, among others) you could think

back to how he acts/feels after eating. If he seems to do worse, then

eliminating sulphur from his diet and supplements would probably be

the way to go (ALA is a different story, though, since it's so

necessary for chelation). It really can work the other way as well.

A week and a half ago, we put dairy back into our son's diet (with

enzyme help) after he was strictly GF/CF, egg-free, and low sulphur

(by default) for over 10 months. He is having his best week in

months. This may not be sulphur-related, but he certainly has not been

harmed by the sulphur content of the dairy products he is now

(joyfully!) consuming.

A relatively easy, non-scary way to find out IMO.

hope this is useful

René

>

> >ALA and other sulfury supplements are VERY VERY HELPFUL

> to some people. I think you missed this part?

> It depends on whether the person is high or low sulfur to

> begin with.

>

> I was looking for posts who mention ALA and sulfur. I do get that

it

> can be good for some and bad for others, depending. Just not knowing

> if he could be high sulfur makes me nervous. I will read everything

> though :-)

>

> Jutta

>

[Guest guest]

>if your child does eat or has

eaten any high-sulphur foods (Andy Cutler's book " Amalgam Illness... "

lists eggs, dairy -- including whey, cabbage, bok choy, broccoli,

turnips, garlic, onions, and asparagus, among others) you could think

back to how he acts/feels after eating.

He does eat eggs and occasionally broccoli. I don't think he feels

worse afterwards. I will pay special attention in the future though.

Are there typical signs how one might react if they are high sulfur

and eating any of those foods?

Thanks, Jutta

[Guest guest]

> Which one did you use?

I used the attentive child and it helped with focus. I also used

Gaba calm for a while. I can not stress enough that what you think

will help should aways be your first choice. After you let go of

the thought that you have to understand every little aspect of

everything.. It frees you to help your child -you know them best.

> > About your supplement list I did not see an everyday

multivitamin He used to take one before I started the supplements

on my list. I thought it would get too complicated with dosages and

such if I had a multi in the mix. Are most people adding that to

individual vitamins?

I think when a child is deficient in a individual supplement that

is fine ... I have found that over time any supplement give everyday

become a problem sooner or later with my son.. calcium was one it

was forming cristal in the urine---too much calcium

As for waiting for test results and starting Chelation-- the

hardest part about chelation is starting and being so scared...

> No kidding. That's why I didn't get started sooner. Right now I

feel like I'm ready though.

My son had is best days when he was on ALA . We did DMSA every 4

hour and ALA every 3 hours -I would write down the timing chart and

set the clock timer on my stove - It is very consuming but I see my

son being healthier and healthier -we are not doing that right now

did a total of 23 rounds... I am open to do more but do not have

plans to do this anytime soon.. I am following my heart.. My 2 Cent

Ann

[Guest guest]

> A biggie for schoolwork is his inability to focus and pay

> attention.

This is viral for my kids. EFAs can also help.

> I'm a very impatient mom and once I'm ready to do something I want

> to do it *now, LOL. I wonder if I could just do a round of ALA

> before the test comes in of if I need to wait.

I did 100 rounds of ALA, without ever testing once LOL

> Magnesium 683 mg, divided

> Calcium 648 mg, most in the evening

Put most of the cal in the morning, it can cause sleep issues. Put

more of the mag in the evening.

> B-50 1 tablet, divided

Don't give too much after about 4pm.

> We've had yeast in the past, should I add something for that during

> chelation on days, just to prevent big trouble?

Yes, you might want to add probiotics every day, increasing it on the

" on " days.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> >I think Candex is a good preventative - we give in the night doses so

> his

> tummy is empty coz he is a grazer.

>

> Could one use No-Fenol as well? I'm just asking because it's also an

> enzyme that's supposed to help with yeast and I happen to have it in

> the house.

No-Fenol works well here to help keep yeast under control.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Dear Jutta,

I'm sure I don't have a complete answer here, but some of the things

Andy mentions are that allergies are reduced by going on sulphur

exclusion diet, and I think I read that emotional volatility when

consuming high-sulphur foods would indicate a need to avoid sulphur.

Perhaps an even safer (but not easier) way to test this - besides

getting the plasma cysteine test from Great Smokies - would be by

doing a sulphur elimination diet for a while and looking for

improvements.

Sorry that I can't give you a more comprehensive idea of what to look

for. This is new to me too! However, if you do another post asking

people what their reactions to high/low sulphur diets are, you might

get a better idea. (Or check the archives with Onibasu.) Adults on

this list who are chelating themselves are particularly helpful with

articulating what they feel like when implementing different aspects

of Andy's protocol.

Hope this is of use

René

> He does eat eggs and occasionally broccoli. I don't think he feels

> worse afterwards. I will pay special attention in the future though.

> Are there typical signs how one might react if they are high sulfur

> and eating any of those foods?

>

> Thanks, Jutta

>

[Guest guest]

>>I think I read that emotional volatility when

consuming high-sulphur foods would indicate a need to avoid sulphur.

Perhaps an even safer (but not easier) way to test this - besides

getting the plasma cysteine test from Great Smokies - would be by

doing a sulphur elimination diet for a while and looking for

improvements.

I'll pay special attention to the emotional aspect. Thanks, Rene. It

also shouldn't be hard to avoid foods high in sulfur for about a week

and then maybe I could give him something and it would be more obvious.

I'm going to check the archives too.

Jutta

[Guest guest]

>

I can not stress enough that what you think

> will help should aways be your first choice. After you let go of

> the thought that you have to understand every little aspect of

> everything.. It frees you to help your child -you know them best.

>

I will just try something. Changed my EFAs yesterday from flax oil

only to a combined product. I am not getting enough feedback from

the school though. I also am not sure how long it would take to see

results from the change.

It is very consuming but I see my

> son being healthier and healthier -we are not doing that right now

> did a total of 23 rounds... I am open to do more but do not have

> plans to do this anytime soon.. I am following my heart.. My 2

Cent

> Ann

What made you decide to stop for now? Has your son improved so much

that you didn't feel it could get better or much better? Can you

tell me a little more on the improvements you saw?

Jutta

[Guest guest]

>>No-Fenol works well here to help keep yeast under control.

Are you giving it daily as a preventative measure? Or at certain

times when you expect yeast might become a problem to prevent? Or just

to treat yeast that's already given you/your children symptoms?

Should I just give a cap on an empty stomach during on days?

Jutta

[Guest guest]

inability to focus and pay

> > attention.

>

>

> This is viral for my kids. EFAs can also help.

We did the high dose VS and that did not help. I just changed my EFA

product, hopefully that will help some.

> Put most of the cal in the morning, it can cause sleep issues. Put

> more of the mag in the evening.

Got it. I think I have most of the Ca in the evening right now.

Sleep is becoming more difficult again. Thanks for pointing that out.

> > B-50 1 tablet, divided

>

>

> Don't give too much after about 4pm.

Isn't that supposed to be divided in 4 doses? We can do only 3

because of time constraints. He gets 1/3 of the B-50 tab in the

evining with dinner.

We've had yeast in the past, should I add something for that during

> > chelation on days, just to prevent big trouble?

>

>

> Yes, you might want to add probiotics every day, increasing it on

the

> " on " days.

We are already doing that. I will just double up on chelation days.

Thanks for your help!

Jutta