Re: D-lactate free probiotics

[Guest guest]

This is what we use, at a dose of 400 billion CFU, twice a day. We

started at 25 billion CFU, twice a day and worked our way up in a

stepwise manner:

http://www.customprobiotics.com/

(number 8)

It is my understanding that a multi-strain formula is superior to a

single strain formula, as certain strains work in the small

intestine, while others work down lower.

This is from a document that I read regarding the D-Lactic acidosis

which can result from using strains such as L. Acidoplhilus that are

not D-Lactate free. Certainly something to avoid!:

" Clinically, most of the patients

have presented with nonfocal neurological signs and symptoms

such as confusion, ataxia, dysarthric speech, aggressiveness,

inappropriate behaviour, stupor and even coma. The younger

the patient, the more often episodes of irritability and drowsiness

are reported; occasionally, hyperventilation was noted.

[Guest guest]

comments interspersed

> ok for someone with carbohydrate malabsorption.

I guessed from that quote I sent in, the yellow eyes and green diarrea were

from the probiotic I gave him. It said that L. acidophilous could form toxicity

in those with carbohydrate malabsorption...

Could you please tell me more about this? What enzyme is he missing? How did

you find out?

Thank you!

It is just a guess on why 75 mil probiotic with l. acidophilous strain would

give him such an extreme reaction. He has benefited greatly from zyme prime, so

maybe he has carbohyrate malabsorption and so I discontinues the probiotic.

> Is there a top ten list of RX you would get for this phenol sulfer sensitive

kid?

Not Rx but I would use Houston digestive enzymes (very helpful) and epsom salt

baths.

Yes, thanks, we started using the enzymes, but he doesn't " do " baths. I can

look into making the epsom salt cream though (I printed out the reciepe), he

might be more willing on that end.

Some liver support would be good for him too. Are you giving milk thistle?

Did you ever try GSE? What about charcoal?

I gave him GSE for ten days followed by the charcoal an hour later. He had

symptoms of exaustion. I read to only give the GSE for ten days, so today I

stopped. He gets 4 caps of milk thistle a day. We planned on starting dmsa on

him as soon as he woke up tonight, and every 4 hours.

[Guest guest]

> ok for someone with carbohydrate malabsorption.

Could you please tell me more about this? What enzyme is he missing? How did you

find out?

Thank you!

> Is there a top ten list of RX you would get for this phenol sulfer sensitive

kid?

Not Rx but I would use Houston digestive enzymes (very helpful) and epsom salt

baths.

Some liver support would be good for him too. Are you giving milk thistle?

Did you ever try GSE? What about charcoal?

Valentina

[Guest guest]

> I guessed from that quote I sent in, the yellow eyes and green diarrea were

from the probiotic I gave him. It said that L. acidophilous could form toxicity

in those with carbohydrate malabsorption...

I understand... So you are thinking that maybe your son is lactose intolerant?

Does he have a similar reaction to milk?

A lot of foods are carbohydrates... all sugars are carbohydrates.... all

vegetables, starches, fruits...

The reaction you describe sounds to me more like liver problems... accumulation

of bilirubin in the blood causes the jaundice. This can happen because of

gallstones or liver infection or anemia sometimes, or hepatitis. Maybe his liver

just couldn't deal with toxins that fast... I don't

really know... just an idea... this reaction - the yellowing of the eyes, is

usually bilirubin accumulation. Is he OK now?

> Yes, thanks, we started using the enzymes, but he doesn't " do " baths. I can

look into making the epsom salt cream though (I printed out the reciepe), he

might be more willing on that end.

You can do the cream, or you can have him soak just his feet in a bucket of warm

water with epsom salts, or you can do a solution of epsom salt and put it in a

spray bottle and spray his arms once in a while... whatever works for him

> I gave him GSE for ten days followed by the charcoal an hour later. He had

symptoms of exaustion.

Don't give the GSE anymore. It is very phenolic so it is probably increasing his

need for sulfate. Also, GSE inhibits some liver enzymes. But give the charcoal

if he can tolerate it.

> We planned on starting dmsa on him as soon as he woke up tonight, and every 4

hours.

With such a sensitive person, I would be very careful.

I wish you good luck!

Please let us know how he is

Were you saying that he is sulfur intolerant? If yes, why? What happened that

led you to believe that?

Find out what is good for liver health. Your son doesn't sound to me like he can

do a lot of detox. Chelation is pretty hard and... I don't know... I really hope

your son is OK.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the replys.

My son is ok now, the yellowing eyes and diarrea are resolved. He is doing well

with his first round of DMSA 25mg every four hours which started late last

night...so it has been eleven hours and so far, so good.

My son tested high for porphyrins which is why we are being careful with

sulfers. I am not an expert in avoiding sulfers by any means, we are kind of

doing a trial and error, and " oops that has sulfer in it " , until we can really

get a handle on it. I mistakenly gave him NEC a few days ago, but then

discontinued it after one dose when I found out it was high in sulfer. I know

that DMSA has sulfer in it, but figure that if we chelate his lead and mercuty

out with DMSA, then he might not be sulfer sensitive anymore, so we are stepping

out and just giving the DMSA chelation a try. It is the only way to get lead

out, it is not like there is another choice that I know of. I can't get my son

into the sauna yet, he won't go in, but he will take a pill.

I don't think D-lactate is the same as lactose, but I don't know. Someone

recommended and sent me a link for a multistrain probiotic virtually the same as

the one that gave him the reaction, and L.acidophilous is one of the strains

that builds up D-lactate in the blood with those with carbohydrate malabsorption

issues.

I really haven't had my question answered on a probiotic that doesn't build up

D-lactates in the blood such as what the klaire labs probiotic did for my son.

So, for now, like I think Dana said, I will just not give him any probiotics

then until farther along in the chelation. I really don't know what we are

going to do about the probiotics. Something in me just wants to start him back

on 25 mil again per day and keep it low for a month, but this whole D-lactate

thing is concerning me about doing that. It could be that I just gave him too

much probiotic that day, or it could be that he is sensitive to l.acidophilous.

The reason we think my son has carbohydrate malabsorption is that we know he has

a leaky gut and he got better when we started giving him zyme prime with meals.

Here is the quote again:

" D-Lactate elevation is an exception to the rule for probiotic potential just

described. Lactobacillus acidophilus is widely considered a favorable bacterium

to colonize the human gut. It has beneficial effects in many individuals.

However, if you have any tendency for carbohydrate malabsorption, even favorable

organism (e.g., L. acidophilus) can grow so fast that your blood becomes highly

acidic due to the formation of D-Lactate. This condition is revealed by high

D-Lactate in urine. Discontinuing all probiotic intervention, while considering

antibiotic therapy may be warranted when D-Lactate is high. "

Using L. acidophilus, and other strains which are not D-Lactate free, can add to

the toxic burden in the gut and cause serious problems.

My sons urine wasnt tested for D-lactate, I am just guessing from the email that

Mark sent me, that a reaction similar to this D-lactate one discribed could have

been the culpret with the four day long green diarrea/ yellow eye episode.

Right before the reaction, I mistakenly raised the probiotic from 25 mil to 75

mill in one day (too fast). This alone might have been what caused the green

diarrea and the yellow eyes and pink eye, but the D-lactate explaination might

be explaining why this build up occurred too.

If this is the case, I should not be giving my son a probiotic with l.

acidophilous or probiotics that build up D-lactate. That is what I was asking

about, if anyone knew a probiotic that did not create reactions like this in

sensitive people.

[Guest guest]

>

> I don't think D-lactate is the same as lactose, but I don't know.

Someone recommended and sent me a link for a multistrain probiotic

virtually the same as the one that gave him the reaction, and

L.acidophilous is one of the strains that builds up D-lactate in the

blood with those with carbohydrate malabsorption issues.

>

> I really haven't had my question answered on a probiotic that

doesn't build up D-lactates in the blood such as what the klaire labs

probiotic did for my son.

>

http://www.customprobiotics.com/

Scroll down the page and look at #8. (All four strains are " D-Lactate

Free " .) L. Acidophilus, as you know, is going to cause problems with

a lot of our kids. Culturelle is a single-strain D-Lactate free

probiotic, Lactobacillus GG. From what I've read, a multi-strain

formulation is probably a little better.

[Guest guest]

Ok duh, I didn't read down the list. Now I get it. I am a bit overwhelmed right

now and didn't scroll past #1. Thank you so much! One of these, #8's is what I

will get for or culturelle. The #8 will be better because it is multi

strained.

[ ] Re: D-lactate free probiotics

>

> I don't think D-lactate is the same as lactose, but I don't know.

Someone recommended and sent me a link for a multistrain probiotic

virtually the same as the one that gave him the reaction, and

L.acidophilous is one of the strains that builds up D-lactate in the

blood with those with carbohydrate malabsorption issues.

>

> I really haven't had my question answered on a probiotic that

doesn't build up D-lactates in the blood such as what the klaire labs

probiotic did for my son.

>

http://www.customprobiotics.com/

Scroll down the page and look at #8. (All four strains are " D-Lactate

Free " .) L. Acidophilus, as you know, is going to cause problems with

a lot of our kids. Culturelle is a single-strain D-Lactate free

probiotic, Lactobacillus GG. From what I've read, a multi-strain

formulation is probably a little better.

[Guest guest]

, if you decide to get the one from Custom Probiotics, make sure

to request both childrens' and adult size scoops. Also, even though

the childrens' scoop seems tiny, start at only one scoop per dose

(which = 25bil CFU), or else you may find yourself in close company

with wet stools. Our son now takes 2 adult scoops (1 adult = 8

childrens') twice a day, which seems to be working just fine. Good

luck and please keep us updated!

[Guest guest]

> My son tested high for porphyrins which is why we are being careful with

sulfers.

What is the connection?

> I mistakenly gave him NEC a few days ago,

NAC is N-acetyl-cysteine.

> I know that DMSA has sulfer in it, but figure that if we chelate his lead and

mercuty out with DMSA,

DMSA actually lowers cysteine in the body. (at least that's what I understand)

It uses two molecules of cysteine to do its " thing " .

> I don't think D-lactate is the same as lactose, but I don't know.

It's not the same.

The reason I asked you if he is lactose intolerant is because lactose is a

carbohydrate (it is the sugar found in milk). Usually that's what people mean

when they say " carbohydrate malabsorption " - lactose malabsorption.

> I really haven't had my question answered on a probiotic that doesn't build up

D-lactates in the blood

I don't know about probiotics, I don't use them at all, but just so you know,

lactate (lactic acid) is manufactured by the body anyway, I mean you don't need

any probiotic for that. It's a normal physiological process. When lactate builds

up in tissues is not good, but it happens sometimes (usually from exercised

muscles).

Valentina