Part-Time Daycare -- Opinions / Advice Please

[Guest guest]

My 29 month old son has been recently diagnosed with PDD and Apraxia.

I had him on the waiting list with a local daycare prior to this

diagnosis. A spot will be available for him soon -- part-time (2 days

per week). Now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to start him in

daycare part-time. I'm concerned that he may cry all day because of

his speech disorder and not be able to help himself. On the other

hand, the DI said I should try it out because it is good for him

from the social perspective. He does have some issues, such as

throwing things, temper tantrums, overstuffing mouth, etc. He will be

assessed soon to received additional therapies (ABA, OT, etc.) through

EI.

Does anyone have any opinions/advice?

[Guest guest]

I put my soon to be 4 year old into 2 mornings a week preschool, 2.5 hours

each day = 5 hours a week when he was 38 months old and he did fine. By the

end of the year, he communicated much better then when he started when he

was done in May. I printed out a letter that was written on CHERUB that was

written specifically for teachers, so that they understand what my sons

diagnosis was (also PPD and Apraxia) and they were wonderful with him. The

understand what the situation was, so please make sure if this is what you

are going to do, that the teachers fully understand what Apraxia is........

How long would he be there each day????? I always feel that if I am home,

then my son belongs home with me - except for preschool. He gets alittle

social time, away from mommy time, but he is not eating or sleeping there,

he can do that at home....

Hope that helps.

[ ] Part-Time Daycare -- Opinions / Advice Please

> My 29 month old son has been recently diagnosed with PDD and Apraxia.

> I had him on the waiting list with a local daycare prior to this

> diagnosis. A spot will be available for him soon -- part-time (2 days

> per week). Now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to start him in

> daycare part-time. I'm concerned that he may cry all day because of

> his speech disorder and not be able to help himself. On the other

> hand, the DI said I should try it out because it is good for him

> from the social perspective. He does have some issues, such as

> throwing things, temper tantrums, overstuffing mouth, etc. He will be

> assessed soon to received additional therapies (ABA, OT, etc.) through

> EI.

>

> Does anyone have any opinions/advice?

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

" JUST OPINION " My SLP rec. that we do preschool next year. At first

when we received diagnosis I thought it may be better to keep him

home with me-she advised otherwise. However sleeping and eating

there doesn't sound like preschool- day care days are different. If

you are at home I would not put him in full day that may be a little

frustrating for him. A few hours of keeping it together and trying

hard to communicate seems like enough socialization just a couple of

times a week.

>

> I put my soon to be 4 year old into 2 mornings a week preschool,

2.5 hours

> each day = 5 hours a week when he was 38 months old and he did

fine. By the

> end of the year, he communicated much better then when he started

when he

> was done in May. I printed out a letter that was written on CHERUB

that was

> written specifically for teachers, so that they understand what my

sons

> diagnosis was (also PPD and Apraxia) and they were wonderful with

him. The

> understand what the situation was, so please make sure if this is

what you

> are going to do, that the teachers fully understand what Apraxia

is........

>

> How long would he be there each day????? I always feel that if I

am home,

> then my son belongs home with me - except for preschool. He gets

alittle

> social time, away from mommy time, but he is not eating or sleeping

there,

> he can do that at home....

>

> Hope that helps.

>

>

> [ ] Part-Time Daycare -- Opinions /

Advice Please

>

>

> > My 29 month old son has been recently diagnosed with PDD and

Apraxia.

> > I had him on the waiting list with a local daycare prior to this

> > diagnosis. A spot will be available for him soon -- part-time (2

days

> > per week). Now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to start him in

> > daycare part-time. I'm concerned that he may cry all day because

of

> > his speech disorder and not be able to help himself. On the other

> > hand, the DI said I should try it out because it is good for him

> > from the social perspective. He does have some issues, such as

> > throwing things, temper tantrums, overstuffing mouth, etc. He

will be

> > assessed soon to received additional therapies (ABA, OT, etc.)

through

> > EI.

> >

> > Does anyone have any opinions/advice?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well-- taking his speech delay totally out of the issue and looking at this

just for a 29 mo old child--

Does he HAVE to go to day care for any specific reasons? (meaning, do you

work and have no alternative?)

My opinion may not be the most favored by people here (or anywhere else for

that matter lol)

but I would *NOT* send a child to daycare unless it was absolutely necessary

.. I just don't see that the benefits would out weigh the negatives. For me

it's not a necessity-- and kids that age belong with mom.

ok-- ready for the darts that will most likely be thrown at me

Becky

In a message dated 7/7/2008 11:06:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

lindaching@... writes:

My 29 month old son has been recently diagnosed with PDD and Apraxia.

I had him on the waiting list with a local daycare prior to this

diagnosis. A spot will be available for him soon -- part-time (2 days

per week). Now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to start him in

daycare part-time. I'm concerned that he may cry all day because of

his speech disorder and not be able to help himself. On the other

hand, the DI said I should try it out because it is good for him

from the social perspective. He does have some issues, such as

throwing things, temper tantrums, overstuffing mouth, etc. He will be

assessed soon to received additional therapies (ABA, OT, etc.) through

EI.

Does anyone have any opinions/advice?

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

[Guest guest]

I agree with going to preschool for socialization. Their peers can

teach them a lot, in ways we can't. So both influences are important.

My son started the EI school at 3yrs. It was a great introduction. He

is almost 5 and we have moved him into a private preschool and

private speech/Ot. It suites his needs better. He gets " typical

peers " to model after. He goes MWF- 1/2 days and Tu/Thur are Therapy

days. He still naps in the afternoon at home.

Most important, SMALL CLASS SIZE. What I found was that Daycares are

different from preschools. Most daycares have a 1:9 ratio but there

are 3 teachers and 27 kids in a class! Way to many! Sebastian needs a

small teacher:student ratio( 1:6 ~ 12 kid max ). A more quiet

environment but freedom to explore, play & learn. Less chance of him

being " lost in the crowd " . Where he can make friends a bit easier,

rather than be excluded or having to fight for attention. Plus the

teacher was able to spend a bit more time with him.

I hope that helps.

,

Mother of Apraxic son, Sebastian ( 4.9yrs )

> >

> > I put my soon to be 4 year old into 2 mornings a week preschool,

> 2.5 hours

> > each day = 5 hours a week when he was 38 months old and he did

> fine. By the

> > end of the year, he communicated much better then when he started

> when he

> > was done in May. I printed out a letter that was written on

CHERUB

> that was

> > written specifically for teachers, so that they understand what

my

> sons

> > diagnosis was (also PPD and Apraxia) and they were wonderful with

> him. The

> > understand what the situation was, so please make sure if this is

> what you

> > are going to do, that the teachers fully understand what Apraxia

> is........

> >

> > How long would he be there each day????? I always feel that if I

> am home,

> > then my son belongs home with me - except for preschool. He gets

> alittle

> > social time, away from mommy time, but he is not eating or

sleeping

> there,

> > he can do that at home....

> >

> > Hope that helps.

> >

> >

> > [ ] Part-Time Daycare -- Opinions /

> Advice Please

> >

> >

> > > My 29 month old son has been recently diagnosed with PDD and

> Apraxia.

> > > I had him on the waiting list with a local daycare prior to this

> > > diagnosis. A spot will be available for him soon -- part-time

(2

> days

> > > per week). Now I'm not sure if it is a good idea to start him in

> > > daycare part-time. I'm concerned that he may cry all day

because

> of

> > > his speech disorder and not be able to help himself. On the

other

> > > hand, the DI said I should try it out because it is good for him

> > > from the social perspective. He does have some issues, such as

> > > throwing things, temper tantrums, overstuffing mouth, etc. He

> will be

> > > assessed soon to received additional therapies (ABA, OT, etc.)

> through

> > > EI.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any opinions/advice?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi- Most parents take their kids to daycare because they have to work. I

have an in home day care. I have a degree as a licensed practical nurse. I have

69 college credits and I am getting my bachelors from Upper Iowa University in

Education with an endorsement in Special Education and an Early Childhood

Endorsement for preschoolers to age 3. I will have 167 credits when I am done.

I will have attended college for over 5 years. I do it because I am

committed.

Most people bring their children to me because I charge $125 dollars a week

for infant care and most day care centers charge $250 a week. My toddler rate

is $110. I use the Kaufman Praxis Treatment kit for language. The cards help

any child learning to talk. I use the pecs for my schedule.

My ratio is less than the day care center.

I can watch up to 7 kids at a time including 4 under the age of 24 months as

long as 3 are under 18 mos and 3 kids over 24 mos. Most of the time I have 4

kids here. Some of my clients have been here for 5 years.

In Iowa the day care center can have 1 teacher for 4 infants but the toddler

teacher can have 12 kids for each teacher so I would be asking about that

and I would also ask if they are nationally accredited. Do they have a quality

rating scale and do they participate.

Daycare is particularly important for sociological development with the only

child who is not exposed to other children.

I am also a childcare provider so I could stay home with my own 2 kids and

avoid the cost of daycare.

Would you consider being a childcare provider yourself? We need more quality

childcare providers.

I like the China system best because the providers that take care of the

infants are also nurses like me, The infant and toddler teachers have a degree

similar to an associates degree in early childhood development.

The second best system I like is californias system which I am told that the

teacher stays with the child the child as long as they are there. I have

been a childcare provider since 1999. I started out at Methodist Hospital.

I am enjoying a sponsorship by the Iowa Association for the Education of

Young Children. They are paying 3/4 of my college education as long as I

continue to work as a childcare provider. I do not think chilcare providers get

the

respect they deserve.

I usually work 50 hours a week so I get approximately $2 an hour for

providing a safe home and an educational environment, I am very well respected.

I do not separate families. They stay with me the whole time. They do not

have to transition between different teachers. In the last eight years I have

only called in sick 2 times. You would not believe how many times parents have

brought their kids here when they were sick. I change their diapers when they

are wet. I do not let them sit in a diaper that is dirty because it isn't

time to change them. I wash my hands instead of cleaning them with hand

sanitizer or baby wipes. I do not let kids do whatever they want. They get a

time

out of 1 minute for each year of age 2 minutes for a 2 year old. If that does

not work they lose their priviledges.

I have taken 1 vacation in the last 8 years. I am dependable.

Many parents take a vacation themselves but leave their kids with me just

like they are going to work. We had a lady who left her daughter here for a week

at a time as she went out of town for work, I also use to do respite care so

mom could have a weekend off once in awhile. What I do is important.

Charlotte Henry

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

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[Guest guest]

Why do you want to send a 29 month old to day care? Is he an only child and

you want him to get an early start? Most professionals do not recommend

preschool settings until the age of 3. If he has temper tantrums and throws

things

do you think it is appropriate for him to be doing that in a room full of

other kids. Is he potty trained? These are some of the things you should

consider. How does he transition to different social settings? Is the center

nationally accredited? What type of training do the teachers have? Some centers

only require 12 hours a year for an associate teacher. What is the cost? Is

there an open door policy? What types of discipline do they use?

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

fuel-efficient used cars.

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[Guest guest]

I agree with you Becky. The social reason to send kids to " daycare "

is a crock anyway as if kids don't have a chance to be social when

they are with their mom and/or dad, brothers, sisters, neighborhood

kids and/or have playdates! My sister is a certified nanny and years

ago she worked in a high end daycare and due to that she NEVER would

send her kids to one! It's like the one person I know who worked at

Dunkin Doughnuts and after seeing how this one place made the crumb

doughnuts supposedly with all the leftover junk won't eat one now due

to that.

One of the stories since I know you are all wondering is that there

were these nonverbal twins and the mom dressed them the same and they

were both in my sister's class. The rocket scientists other daycare

teachers at the preschool who my sister said were just jealous of how

close the twins were to her decided that for the children's best

interest they needed to be separated since they depended upon each

other too much -but wanted to do this without telling the parents.

My sister of course said to the school " it's not your decision but

the decision of the mother to separate the twins " .

But my sister didn't own the daycare. My sister was still with the

one twin while the other one was pulled out and put into another

class where the twin that was pulled out could see her sister and my

sister through the glass door playing. So she would cry and cry and

the other teacher would pull her away. It broke my sister's heart

and even though she wasn't allowed to tell the parents - did

tell the mother what the preschool did to her twins and to explain

why the one was so upset. The mother thanked my sister and she

pulled her twins from the school and my sister quit.

I see no reason for daycare unless both parents work..then a nanny would in most

cases be better.

About the daycare " helping " with social issues

" The more time children spent in child care from birth to age four-and-a-half,

the more adults tended to rate them, both at age four-and-a-half and at

kindergarten, as less likely to get along with others, as more assertive, as

disobedient, and as aggressive, according to a study appearing in the

July/August issue of Child Development. "

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/news/releases/child_care.cfm

To me the only reason to send a late talker child to preschool is to

get the special needs therapy. While I have nothing against home

schooling -I believe that children with apraxia require almost

daily intensive and appropriate therapies that most of us aren't

capable of providing ourselves. Preschool and kindergarten are

probably the two best years to get that early intervention while not

worrying so much about taking away from curriculum.

When in doubt- weigh the pros and cons on daycare for a " normal "

child -and then an archive. BTW -as few pros are here -I don't even

agree with all of them!

" UPSIDE of Daycare:

· Always more than one person available to watch, care for,

supervise, and feed your child

· Interaction with other children

· Develop social skills at an early age

· Kid's days are pretty much scheduled, routine, and consistent

· Daycare centers don't call in sick

· Kids receive a lot of mental stimulation

· Your house stays neater (although my son can make a mess in minutes)

· The kids enjoy the change of scenery and toys

· Cost is less than for a nanny

· English-as-second-language kids have more exposure to English

DOWNSIDES of Daycare:

· Nighttime baths vs. possibly every other day

· Laying out their clothes

· Packing nutritious lunches vs. fast food snacks

· Morning rush to get out of the house on time

· Allow extra time to make the stop and drop-off

· Your child screaming, " Mommy don't go!! "

· The guilt and bad feelings because you're leaving them behind

· Less one-on-one attention from caregivers

· Potential personality conflicts at the center between parents and

staff

· Potential personality conflicts between the children

· Ethics taught are the centers or the caregiver

· Values taught are the centers or the caregiver

· Possibly no ethics or values taught at all

· Political influences are those at the center/school

· Less bonding between parent and child

· Child learns early on that you won't be there for them when they

need you

· You don't get to see and experience all the " firsts " that your

child goes through

· You can NEVER recapture those things you miss

· When your child has a boo-boo you're not there to make it better

· When your child is excited about what she/he has learned, you're

not there at the moment they want to share it with you

· When they're not feeling well you leave them to someone else to

care for them

· When they're sick no one will baby them like you will

· More exposure to health issues: ringworm, lice, and colds/flues

· You're not there to kiss away their tears

· You're not there to waylay their fears

· You're not there to set their wild ideas back on track

· No opportunity to have a spontaneous day

· No time to do " nothing at all " together

· To experience the joy of holding and watching your child sleep for

hours (hopefully)

· You're not there to teach them to climb a tree

· To explore the bugs and insects

· To plant a seed and watch it grow

· Playing " what do you see in the clouds "

· Less time to go to the beach, woods, hiking, swimming, biking,

skating, etc.

· No time to just " play "

· To be your kid's playmate

· To experience getting to be a kid all over again with your child

· Seeing and experiencing life through the eyes of your child

· No time to make pancakes in the morning

· No time to bake real cookies

· Not there to put a band aid on the invisible oweee

· Not get to see your child's imagination develop

· Not get to see their personal development as much as you could

· Don't get to see them beaming with pride at their BIG

accomplishments

· Infants and toddlers spending 6-8-10 hours a day away from Mom or

Dad

· The cost of daycare is an added expense: financial and emotional

http://ezinearticles.com/?Considering-Daycare?--Consider-the-Pros-and-

Cons & id=25882

Re: picking a preschool

Jen most of our children have at least average IQ -and perhaps it is

due to the fish oils but it appears a high percentage is tested above

average. Speech delays and impairments don't go hand in hand with

cognitive impairments. The trick is to use the preschool years to

help speech impaired children get up to speed developmentally as best

possible so that they can be mainstreamed by kindergarten and

beyond. There's so much emphasis put on academics in preschools

today -but to me kids need time to play and be children -and that's

important for them as well. In addition with a child that has normal

or above average receptive abilities and severe delays in expressive -

that child is going to deal with frustration. Being tossed in the

mainstream for preschool for a child with a simple delay in speech

may be a great idea -but for a child with an impairment like apraxia

it won't work -and worse it may backfire. You want your child

surrounded by professionals that know how to best help them and peers

that accept them and keep their self esteem high. Observe the

special needs preschool and you may find that there is a very small

class with a mix of children -and a majority who may be just like

your daughter! (after all apraxic children do seem to grow up near

other apraxic children today!)

gotta run -but here's a very long archive!

Re: Big PRESCHOOL Dilemma

Hi Nati!

Great question.

If you check the archives -many " aggressive " or hitting children are

the apraxic ones that are preschooled in " normal " preschools. They

are also the ones that regress into themselves. That's due to

frustration. Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive ability -so

they are very aware is they are not keeping up in some way.

In general I am for special needs preschool for speech impaired

children -and mainstream whenever possible for K-12. The goal is to

get the child up to speed as quickly as possible so that they can be

mainstreamed K-12 -and that mean appropriate placement and therapy

for preschool years. I know Becky and possibly one or two others

believe that's possible to do homeschool-I know if anyone can prove

it that will be Becky. The overwhelming majority of apraxic children

attend a special needs preschool and parents advocate for appropriate

placement and services with qualified special needs educators,

therapists and appropriate speech and occupational therapies.

Perhaps autism is the larger issue with your child? Perhaps the

apraxia your child has is mild -and Dr. Agin is more concerned with

your child's social skills? I don't know -but below is an archive

based upon history here -and history says special needs preschool is

typically best for apraxic children. Let us know how severe your

child's speech impairment is- how many days of therapy a week -

frustration level etc. All that matters.

~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive on this a bit long:

Hi all!

In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest will

work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech impaired

child and throwing them into mainstream preschool in hopes it

will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. " from

http://wildlifeinternational.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?

ID=121

That whole get your child around proper models so they will learn

how to act holds no water. How many children 50 years ago went to

preshool or daycare? Any? And yet somehow they " learned " how to act

normal by just being around Mom and Dad? My apraxic son was

schooled at a private out of district placement special needs

preschool for the hearing impaired and deaf and in spite of the lack

of normal role models -or perhaps due to this since he had nobody to

tease him about why he couldn't speak well so his self esteem stayed

in tack - Tanner has since kindergarten been schooled in the

mainstream and has tons of friends and loves to play and yes talks a

mile a minute today in spite of the fact that he is still apraxic.

One does not get cured of apraxia, but you can learn to overcome it

enough to blend for the most part. Not all the time but at least

most of the time. Saying multi complex words in long sentences -

still difficult for Tanner -but we are still working on it. Many

people today have no clue Tanner has any speech issue... until they

get him into a long discussion...which can be months after they meet

him! He's pretty good at knowing how to talk just enough to blend,

and to get others to talk more.

Better sooner than later as they say when it comes to therapy! The

goal is to put your child into the placement that will enable him or

her to be able to be placed in mainstream classes from K and beyond

with the least amount of therapy. So your job is to figure out

which is the best way to get your child there.

As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I have

done it both ways with two different children and for two different

reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if I

could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th they

are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in preschool

is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner was

very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups now

and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also plays

well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends on

the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are social

butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

goal to set.

Not sure if I made it clear that nobody diagnosed or suspected

Tanner of having social problems. Tanner played well with children

once he got to know them. While he was nonverbal, he was painfully

and obviously uncomfortable around groups of children he did not

know..even if he knew some of the children well. For example once

we went to a birthday party over a neighbor's house. Tanner loved

and Shelby, but they had groups of friends there that Tanner

had never met before. All of them were playing and friendly, even

trying to get Tanner to play too, but he just stood over to the side

and watched. If you tried to force him to join them as some did,

that was a bad idea unless you were looking for tears.

He knew the others were having fun but he just was not comfortable

with them. If one or two children came over while he was with one

child he knew, that was OK. Just couldn't be too many new faces,

new talking faces that is.

That is in direct contrast to Dakota who would join into any group

of children if it looked like they were playing.

What's funny is right now as social as Tanner is he is choosing whom

to invite to his birthday party and has it down to 30 kids (yes you

read that right) He is not inviting the girls that " talk too much "

because he will tell you they " don't do anything but stand around

and talk and don't play " He only wants to invite the girls that

play.

How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

(too)

If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say in

most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The best

chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical years

for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

is socially will be who they are down the road.

Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of a

simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups of

children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

delays at that age and very little frustration about not

communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about the

same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never forget

sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6 month

delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

be permanent or not. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

(see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal apraxia,

sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with other

children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

ability was above average while his expressive ability was way below

average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

much as he wanted. Tanner's page

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

ability is higher)

Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

make the right one on this.

No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if you

have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal receptive

ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem is

most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in kindergarten

at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down at

the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about children

as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each one

of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

just for the placement but for all the services that would be

appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program is

not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

district placement " where the public school pays to send your child

to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in New

Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that school

went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

he went to. For him.

The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed as

quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

" There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in speech

and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

read The Late Talker?) "

<<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

Written By

[Guest guest]

I think Becky and make great points. The one thing I will say,

that with any kid, you do have to gauge social opportunity. My first

kid, who was without big issues, benefitted from preschool because,

despite my best efforts in the neighborhood (there are not many at

home moms)and because he brother was little, not talking and had

receptive issues, her social opportunities were less than optimal. We

did preschool and not daycare for the very reasons outlined and

the school we chose was all about having fun, individualized

attention, and learning by experience. That school was a great thing

for my daughter and the funny part is I am homeschooling her for

kindergarten so it is not like I always feel formal school is

essential. It helped with that also though. The school she went to

pulled from all over so whether she went to kindergarten or not she

would not see those kids again without effort, one we will make. In

fact her preK is having a reunion because the kids and parents were

such a great bunch.

For my speech kid, because of the atmosphere and because the ratio is

2:1 kids to adults, he will also go there. They know his deal and

were willing to work around it. Fortunately, as of late, there is

less to work around. The point is, I knew from the start the effort

to engage and include them would be there. Because he is the second

sibling he has actually had more social opportunities than his sister

and were he the first kid with no big issues I am not sure PreK would

be essential. At this point though I believe his life will be richer

for attending this particular school. It is only 5 hours per week so

we will not be overloading him and it is a chance to meet even more

new friends. Also, 8 of his classmates have siblings my daughter's

age so that is a big bonus for all of us.

I think these decisions are individual. I do think though, when

dealing with apraxia specifically there are some guidelines that are

critical that has already laid out.

>

> I agree with you Becky. The social reason to send kids to " daycare "

> is a crock anyway as if kids don't have a chance to be social when

> they are with their mom and/or dad, brothers, sisters, neighborhood

> kids and/or have playdates! My sister is a certified nanny and

years

> ago she worked in a high end daycare and due to that she NEVER would

> send her kids to one! It's like the one person I know who worked at

> Dunkin Doughnuts and after seeing how this one place made the crumb

> doughnuts supposedly with all the leftover junk won't eat one now

due

> to that.

>

> One of the stories since I know you are all wondering is that there

> were these nonverbal twins and the mom dressed them the same and

they

> were both in my sister's class. The rocket scientists other daycare

> teachers at the preschool who my sister said were just jealous of

how

> close the twins were to her decided that for the children's best

> interest they needed to be separated since they depended upon each

> other too much -but wanted to do this without telling the parents.

> My sister of course said to the school " it's not your decision but

> the decision of the mother to separate the twins " .

>

> But my sister didn't own the daycare. My sister was still with the

> one twin while the other one was pulled out and put into another

> class where the twin that was pulled out could see her sister and my

> sister through the glass door playing. So she would cry and cry and

> the other teacher would pull her away. It broke my sister's heart

> and even though she wasn't allowed to tell the parents - did

> tell the mother what the preschool did to her twins and to explain

> why the one was so upset. The mother thanked my sister and she

> pulled her twins from the school and my sister quit.

>

> I see no reason for daycare unless both parents work..then a nanny

would in most cases be better.

>

> About the daycare " helping " with social issues

> " The more time children spent in child care from birth to age four-

and-a-half, the more adults tended to rate them, both at age four-and-

a-half and at kindergarten, as less likely to get along with others,

as more assertive, as disobedient, and as aggressive, according to a

study appearing in the July/August issue of Child Development. "

> http://www.nichd.nih.gov/news/releases/child_care.cfm

>

> To me the only reason to send a late talker child to preschool is to

> get the special needs therapy. While I have nothing against home

> schooling -I believe that children with apraxia require almost

> daily intensive and appropriate therapies that most of us aren't

> capable of providing ourselves. Preschool and kindergarten are

> probably the two best years to get that early intervention while not

> worrying so much about taking away from curriculum.

>

> When in doubt- weigh the pros and cons on daycare for a " normal "

> child -and then an archive. BTW -as few pros are here -I don't even

> agree with all of them!

>

> " UPSIDE of Daycare:

>

> · Always more than one person available to watch, care for,

> supervise, and feed your child

>

> · Interaction with other children

>

> · Develop social skills at an early age

>

> · Kid's days are pretty much scheduled, routine, and consistent

>

> · Daycare centers don't call in sick

>

> · Kids receive a lot of mental stimulation

>

> · Your house stays neater (although my son can make a mess in

minutes)

>

> · The kids enjoy the change of scenery and toys

>

> · Cost is less than for a nanny

>

> · English-as-second-language kids have more exposure to English

>

> DOWNSIDES of Daycare:

>

> · Nighttime baths vs. possibly every other day

>

> · Laying out their clothes

>

> · Packing nutritious lunches vs. fast food snacks

>

> · Morning rush to get out of the house on time

>

> · Allow extra time to make the stop and drop-off

>

> · Your child screaming, " Mommy don't go!! "

>

> · The guilt and bad feelings because you're leaving them behind

>

> · Less one-on-one attention from caregivers

>

> · Potential personality conflicts at the center between parents and

> staff

>

> · Potential personality conflicts between the children

>

> · Ethics taught are the centers or the caregiver

>

> · Values taught are the centers or the caregiver

>

> · Possibly no ethics or values taught at all

>

> · Political influences are those at the center/school

>

> · Less bonding between parent and child

>

> · Child learns early on that you won't be there for them when they

> need you

>

> · You don't get to see and experience all the " firsts " that your

> child goes through

>

> · You can NEVER recapture those things you miss

>

> · When your child has a boo-boo you're not there to make it better

>

> · When your child is excited about what she/he has learned, you're

> not there at the moment they want to share it with you

>

> · When they're not feeling well you leave them to someone else to

> care for them

>

> · When they're sick no one will baby them like you will

>

> · More exposure to health issues: ringworm, lice, and colds/flues

>

> · You're not there to kiss away their tears

>

> · You're not there to waylay their fears

>

> · You're not there to set their wild ideas back on track

>

> · No opportunity to have a spontaneous day

>

> · No time to do " nothing at all " together

>

> · To experience the joy of holding and watching your child sleep for

> hours (hopefully)

>

> · You're not there to teach them to climb a tree

>

> · To explore the bugs and insects

>

> · To plant a seed and watch it grow

>

> · Playing " what do you see in the clouds "

>

> · Less time to go to the beach, woods, hiking, swimming, biking,

> skating, etc.

>

> · No time to just " play "

>

> · To be your kid's playmate

>

> · To experience getting to be a kid all over again with your child

>

> · Seeing and experiencing life through the eyes of your child

>

> · No time to make pancakes in the morning

>

> · No time to bake real cookies

>

> · Not there to put a band aid on the invisible oweee

>

> · Not get to see your child's imagination develop

>

> · Not get to see their personal development as much as you could

>

> · Don't get to see them beaming with pride at their BIG

> accomplishments

>

> · Infants and toddlers spending 6-8-10 hours a day away from Mom or

> Dad

>

> · The cost of daycare is an added expense: financial and emotional

>

> http://ezinearticles.com/?Considering-Daycare?--Consider-the-Pros-

and-

> Cons & id=25882

>

> Re: picking a preschool

>

>

> Jen most of our children have at least average IQ -and perhaps it is

> due to the fish oils but it appears a high percentage is tested

above

> average. Speech delays and impairments don't go hand in hand with

> cognitive impairments. The trick is to use the preschool years to

> help speech impaired children get up to speed developmentally as

best

> possible so that they can be mainstreamed by kindergarten and

> beyond. There's so much emphasis put on academics in preschools

> today -but to me kids need time to play and be children -and that's

> important for them as well. In addition with a child that has normal

> or above average receptive abilities and severe delays in

expressive -

> that child is going to deal with frustration. Being tossed in the

> mainstream for preschool for a child with a simple delay in speech

> may be a great idea -but for a child with an impairment like apraxia

> it won't work -and worse it may backfire. You want your child

> surrounded by professionals that know how to best help them and

peers

> that accept them and keep their self esteem high. Observe the

> special needs preschool and you may find that there is a very small

> class with a mix of children -and a majority who may be just like

> your daughter! (after all apraxic children do seem to grow up near

> other apraxic children today!)

>

> gotta run -but here's a very long archive!

>

> Re: Big PRESCHOOL Dilemma

>

>

> Hi Nati!

>

> Great question.

>

> If you check the archives -many " aggressive " or hitting children are

> the apraxic ones that are preschooled in " normal " preschools. They

> are also the ones that regress into themselves. That's due to

> frustration. Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive ability -so

> they are very aware is they are not keeping up in some way.

>

> In general I am for special needs preschool for speech impaired

> children -and mainstream whenever possible for K-12. The goal is to

> get the child up to speed as quickly as possible so that they can be

> mainstreamed K-12 -and that mean appropriate placement and therapy

> for preschool years. I know Becky and possibly one or two others

> believe that's possible to do homeschool-I know if anyone can prove

> it that will be Becky. The overwhelming majority of apraxic children

> attend a special needs preschool and parents advocate for

appropriate

> placement and services with qualified special needs educators,

> therapists and appropriate speech and occupational therapies.

>

> Perhaps autism is the larger issue with your child? Perhaps the

> apraxia your child has is mild -and Dr. Agin is more concerned with

> your child's social skills? I don't know -but below is an archive

> based upon history here -and history says special needs preschool is

> typically best for apraxic children. Let us know how severe your

> child's speech impairment is- how many days of therapy a week -

> frustration level etc. All that matters.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive on this a bit long:

>

> Hi all!

>

> In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest will

> work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech impaired

> child and throwing them into mainstream preschool in hopes it

> will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

>

> In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

> from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. " from

>

http://wildlifeinternational.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?

> ID=121

>

> That whole get your child around proper models so they will learn

> how to act holds no water. How many children 50 years ago went to

> preshool or daycare? Any? And yet somehow they " learned " how to act

> normal by just being around Mom and Dad? My apraxic son was

> schooled at a private out of district placement special needs

> preschool for the hearing impaired and deaf and in spite of the lack

> of normal role models -or perhaps due to this since he had nobody to

> tease him about why he couldn't speak well so his self esteem stayed

> in tack - Tanner has since kindergarten been schooled in the

> mainstream and has tons of friends and loves to play and yes talks a

> mile a minute today in spite of the fact that he is still apraxic.

> One does not get cured of apraxia, but you can learn to overcome it

> enough to blend for the most part. Not all the time but at least

> most of the time. Saying multi complex words in long sentences -

> still difficult for Tanner -but we are still working on it. Many

> people today have no clue Tanner has any speech issue... until they

> get him into a long discussion...which can be months after they meet

> him! He's pretty good at knowing how to talk just enough to blend,

> and to get others to talk more.

>

> Better sooner than later as they say when it comes to therapy! The

> goal is to put your child into the placement that will enable him or

> her to be able to be placed in mainstream classes from K and beyond

> with the least amount of therapy. So your job is to figure out

> which is the best way to get your child there.

>

> As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I

have

> done it both ways with two different children and for two different

> reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if I

> could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

> been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th they

> are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in preschool

> is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner was

> very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

> years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups now

> and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also plays

> well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends on

> the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

> very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are social

> butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

> goal to set.

>

> Not sure if I made it clear that nobody diagnosed or suspected

> Tanner of having social problems. Tanner played well with children

> once he got to know them. While he was nonverbal, he was painfully

> and obviously uncomfortable around groups of children he did not

> know..even if he knew some of the children well. For example once

> we went to a birthday party over a neighbor's house. Tanner loved

> and Shelby, but they had groups of friends there that Tanner

> had never met before. All of them were playing and friendly, even

> trying to get Tanner to play too, but he just stood over to the side

> and watched. If you tried to force him to join them as some did,

> that was a bad idea unless you were looking for tears.

>

> He knew the others were having fun but he just was not comfortable

> with them. If one or two children came over while he was with one

> child he knew, that was OK. Just couldn't be too many new faces,

> new talking faces that is.

>

> That is in direct contrast to Dakota who would join into any group

> of children if it looked like they were playing.

>

> What's funny is right now as social as Tanner is he is choosing whom

> to invite to his birthday party and has it down to 30 kids (yes you

> read that right) He is not inviting the girls that " talk too much "

> because he will tell you they " don't do anything but stand around

> and talk and don't play " He only wants to invite the girls that

> play.

>

>

> How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

> (too)

>

> If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say in

> most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The best

> chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

> kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical years

> for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

> preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

> is socially will be who they are down the road.

>

> Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of a

> simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

> with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups of

> children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

> delays at that age and very little frustration about not

> communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about the

> same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

> doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never forget

> sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

> face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6 month

> delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

> from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

> be permanent or not. "

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

> (see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

> better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

> make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

>

> On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal apraxia,

> sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

> preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with other

> children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

> with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

> ability was above average while his expressive ability was way below

> average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

> much as he wanted. Tanner's page

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

>

> Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

> park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

> Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

> he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

> ability is higher)

>

> Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

> make the right one on this.

>

> No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

> eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if you

> have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal receptive

> ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

> normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

> them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

> for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

> aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem is

> most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

> high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

> never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in kindergarten

> at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

> Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

> looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down at

> the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

> proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

>

> The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

> with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

> for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about children

> as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

>

> As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each one

> of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

> throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

> just for the placement but for all the services that would be

> appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program is

> not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

> district placement " where the public school pays to send your child

> to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

> Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

> based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in New

> Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that school

> went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

> good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

> he went to. For him.

>

> The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

> will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed as

> quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

>

> There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

>

> " There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in

speech

> and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

> Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

> overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

> son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

> child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

> an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

> other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

> just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

> not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

> Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

> it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

> them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

> read The Late Talker?) "

> <<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

>

> Written By