Foreign Language Question

[Guest guest]

I have a 5 year old Latino (adopted by us and we are caucasion). I

want him to learn his native language. He had delays and had speech

as well as all other therapies, so I put off teaching in the past. He

has now " caught up " and is doing great (he graduated from all

therapies, so I am going ahead and teaching him some Spanish.

I have another apraxic 9 year old who I have posted here his story in

the past (started speaking first time, single words last summer, 2007

at 8 years old. I started oils in May, 2008 and he can now speak up

to 12 word sentences - 9 years old). This is my question. Since most

apraxic children have normal intelligences, is it OK to teach them

another language (whether they can repeat it back or not), or would

that not be a good idea. He wants to learn it with the 5 yr old and

it doesn't seem like it would confuse him - but I'm not sure.

They both have " total immersion Spanish " by a person who speaks

fluently as well as her four children. They " play " in Spanish for one

hour a week. I read simple readers (one word and picture - ie: rojo

(red) and la manzana (apple.)

Any thoughts or ideas?

[Guest guest]

We were interested in bringing our son up bi-lingually (English and Italian) and

looked into the research which didn't give us much insight since most was done

with very high functioning kids who were totally without issues. Our son has a

semantic-pragmatic language didorder and severe dyspraxia so our issues are

different to yours. State SLPs all advised us against bi-lingualism saying it

would confuse him and in the end we gave up when he was 4 but when talking to

(enlightened) principals in Special Ed (of good independent schools for kids +

speech and language difficulties) the view seemed to be that it was good to

learn a second language, gave kids a chance to start afresh in an area

(language) where they had had lots of problems and anxieties, but that they

would never get beyond the level of their dominant language. My husband resumed

speaking Italian with our son because he (our son) wanted to do it and we

weren't convinced by the SLPs who

tried to disuade us. His receptive italian is much better than his spoken but

that is the same as his English. I don't know if there are any studies which

look at whether articulation in Spanish is easier than in English - maybe the

Spanish tutor you use has a view on this. I think its great if you have access

to a Spanish speaking peer group as that makes it so much more meaningful. We

didn't and so exposure to Italian speakers other than my husband was only during

vacations with Italian family in Italy who didn't speak English. (from

UK - son 12)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I appreciate your input.  I did read an article a long time ago about children

getting confused when you start them bilingually when they are young.  The

artical suggested having very clear boundaries when speaking the other language

- like all Spanish upstairs and English downstairs or only with a particular

person (say the cleaning lady or babysitter) or that sort of thing.  Since I use

books, I'm thinking that I should only read the Spanish books in a place that I

don't normally read.  I'm not sure if this is a real issue since they already

speak English and I am only teaching them Spanish words that they already know

the English version to. 

 

Just a note for you - I had a foreign exchange student for the summer (actually

two) and they wanted to get together with a French speaking group, so I looked

on line and there are support groups that get together and speak another

language, maybe you could find something like that or who knows maybe you could

do the same thing that my " tutor " does.  I pay $25.00 an hour (and that is the

per child fee - I would be paying $50.00 except for that she is giving me a

discount or I couldn't have done it at all.)  All they do is play together and

speak Spanish the entire time.  If you are interested in teaching someone else

(and just playing with your child as well as that child), you could earn some

extra money (maybe to pay the SLP????).  That way your son can get some practice

in with others as well and Italian would be even more fun (and maybe he'll make

another friend.)

 

Thanks again. 

 

 

 

Blessings to You,

 

********************************************************************************\

***********************************************************************

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:  not as the world giveth give

I unto you.  Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 

14:27

 

[ ] Re:Foreign Language Question

We were interested in bringing our son up bi-lingually (English and Italian) and

looked into the research which didn't give us much insight since most was done

with very high functioning kids who were totally without issues. Our son has a

semantic-pragmatic language didorder and severe dyspraxia so our issues are

different to yours. State SLPs all advised us against bi-lingualism saying it

would confuse him and in the end we gave up when he was 4 but when talking to

(enlightened) principals in Special Ed (of good independent schools for kids +

speech and language difficulties) the view seemed to be that it was good to

learn a second language, gave kids a chance to start afresh in an area

(language) where they had had lots of problems and anxieties, but that they

would never get beyond the level of their dominant language. My husband resumed

speaking Italian with our son because he (our son) wanted to do it and we

weren't convinced by the SLPs who

tried to disuade us. His receptive italian is much better than his spoken but

that is the same as his English. I don't know if there are any studies which

look at whether articulation in Spanish is easier than in English - maybe the

Spanish tutor you use has a view on this. I think its great if you have access

to a Spanish speaking peer group as that makes it so much more meaningful. We

didn't and so exposure to Italian speakers other than my husband was only during

vacations with Italian family in Italy who didn't speak English. (from

UK - son 12)

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

I spoke to Cheryl http://cherab.org/about/cheryl.html about this too

but because I had an event tonight at Tanner's school I have to

answer from memory. She said that because children with apraxia have

normal receptive and cognitive ability (apraxia in itself is not a

receptive or cognitive disorder) that you can teach the child both

languages receptively -but as there is apraxia it's best to only work

expressively with the language you want the child to use.

For example you can point to a picture of an apple and say " this is

an apple, manzana. Say apple " (I guess speak the way Dora does )

She said by speaking to the child in both languages the he or she

will be able to understand both languages and once they become better

at speaking in the first language it will be easier for them to learn

to speak the second.

=====

[Guest guest]

We needed to teach our apraxic son a second language because we moved

to a foreign country. We actually found that some of the speech and

language difficulties improved in the second language. He already had

some skills from speech therapy in English and the second time around

his language was not impaired by mistakes that were overlearned in

English. His English is still impaired but gradually improving with

continued work. I do not think that it is a problem at all to learn a

second language. It might be slow going but ultimately a good thing.

[Guest guest]

Ok, along the same lines here...we went to Mexico over the summer & they ALL

understood Cody (even when I coulldn't).

It was strange. DH wanted to know if he was really a Mexican baby!

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:31 PM, paltiel2003 <paltiel2003@...> wrote:

> We needed to teach our apraxic son a second language because we moved

> to a foreign country. We actually found that some of the speech and

> language difficulties improved in the second language. He already had

> some skills from speech therapy in English and the second time around

> his language was not impaired by mistakes that were overlearned in

> English. His English is still impaired but gradually improving with

> continued work. I do not think that it is a problem at all to learn a

> second language. It might be slow going but ultimately a good thing.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Great!  Thanks!

 

Blessings to You,

 

********************************************************************************\

***********************************************************************

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:  not as the world giveth give

I unto you.  Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 

14:27

 

[ ] Re:Foreign Language Question

We needed to teach our apraxic son a second language because we moved

to a foreign country. We actually found that some of the speech and

language difficulties improved in the second language. He already had

some skills from speech therapy in English and the second time around

his language was not impaired by mistakes that were overlearned in

English. His English is still impaired but gradually improving with

continued work. I do not think that it is a problem at all to learn a

second language. It might be slow going but ultimately a good thing.

[Guest guest]

Wow - this is amazing - it seems to be a common thread - very interesting. 

Thanks for your input.

 

Blessings to You,

 

********************************************************************************\

***********************************************************************

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:  not as the world giveth give

I unto you.  Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 

14:27

 

Re: [ ] Re:Foreign Language Question

Ok, along the same lines here...we went to Mexico over the summer & they ALL

understood Cody (even when I coulldn't).

It was strange. DH wanted to know if he was really a Mexican baby!

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:31 PM, paltiel2003 <paltiel2003> wrote:

> We needed to teach our apraxic son a second language because we moved

> to a foreign country. We actually found that some of the speech and

> language difficulties improved in the second language. He already had

> some skills from speech therapy in English and the second time around

> his language was not impaired by mistakes that were overlearned in

> English. His English is still impaired but gradually improving with

> continued work. I do not think that it is a problem at all to learn a

> second language. It might be slow going but ultimately a good thing.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From a neuroplasticity standpoint a second language is awesome be the

child NT, apraxic, etc. The Brain That Changes Itself, by Dr. Doidge,

speaks of this.

[Guest guest]

My husband is Slovak but the first American born generation. There is

no " aw " sound in the Slovak language so when his cousin named his

daughter the elders were completely unable to say it as they

came here late in life and literally cannot hear sounds not in their

language so the child is called " Cloudia. " My guess is if a kid

improves part of it, aside from neuroplasticity (and

strenthining/building neural connections) is that some of what the

child hears best may be more a part of the new language than the old.

Probably more relevant in kids with budding AP issues. Just a guess.

>

> > We needed to teach our apraxic son a second language because we

moved

> > to a foreign country. We actually found that some of the speech

and

> > language difficulties improved in the second language. He already

had

> > some skills from speech therapy in English and the second time

around

> > his language was not impaired by mistakes that were overlearned in

> > English. His English is still impaired but gradually improving

with

> > continued work. I do not think that it is a problem at all to

learn a

> > second language. It might be slow going but ultimately a good

thing.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In our family, starting and maintaining bilingualism from birth despite

language and communication delays and dyspraxia has been a do-able and

positive thing. Even though the younger son who is more verbal prefers

to speak Italian, understands English very well and the older one with

more dyspraxia/PDD-NOS is stronger in American English. The dyspraxia

is the common denominator and it is not language specific. In our case,

the kids NEED to know BOTH languages because of our culturally mixed

family...and the fact that they begin " teaching English " in first grade

here is no substitute for at-home family exposure by a long shot.

Maintaining bilingual upbringing really irks some of the professionals

here - but they are monolingual professionals who don't understand that

growing up bilingual is not necessarily " confusing " to the children...it

is also not the cause of their dyspraxic problems.

Depending on the child's problems it may be in the best interest of the

child to stick with one language, but that needs to be an individual

family-child determined decision that works for your family. Learning

more than one language as a young child is not as challenging and

difficult as it is for an adult to learn a second or third language

after they are adults...some people just can't do it, others find it

easy. Growing up bilingual also has lots of benefits and helps

generate more brain neuron networks, too.

Thanks to a mom on a really expansive international discussion group

called BILINGUAL FAMILIES below is an interesting tidbit regarding

ongoing research into bilingualism along with language delays. This

discussion group is not part of , but you can join by sending

a blank email to

Individual emails biling-fam-subscribe@...

Digest biling-fam-digest-subscribe@...

List web page http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html

*

FORWARDED MESSAGE*

There was an article sort of recently (June) where Fred Genesee

addresses the issue of children with speech impediments. I'm looking for

it now....For some reason, I cannot find the article on the Le

Panoptique website, but here is the relevant excerpt from that interview:

*/The Panoptique:/*/ Could you talk on your recent line of interesting

research that investigates bilingualism in children with impairments?/

*Dr. Genesee:* One of the worries that people have is whether children

who have language learning impairments should learn another language.

This is a concern for people raising children bilingually at home, but

it is also a concern for schools, for example French immersion programs,

where people think English speaking children with Specific Language

Impairment (SLI) should not be in such a program. The reason for that is

that these children have trouble learning a language, so the common

sense notion is that they will have even more trouble when learning two

languages. There are not a lot of data on this topic but we have done

some research and there is some research being done in the US on that.

Both studies compared bilingual children with language impairment to

monolingual children with language impairments. The hypothesis was: if

children with language impairment are at greater risk for language

learning deficits if they have to learn two languages rather than one,

then these bilingual children should have more severe difficulties or

different types of difficulties than their monolingual peers. However,

both studies found that the bilingual children had the same level of

severity of language impairment as the monolingual children, a finding

that was really quite surprising. We also found that the impairments the

bilingual kids had in English and in French looked like the difficulties

the English and French monolingual children had, respectively. This is

remarkable because language impairments are different in different

languages. So, it really looked like being impaired made it difficult

but it did not make it worse when learning two languages.

[Guest guest]

Doesn't Spanish have less vowel sounds? Inconsistent vowel sounds are part

of apraxia (ie which jaw position to settle in for each sound) it makes

sense that if you cut the vowel sounds from about 12-13 sounds to just 5 it

would be easier to pronounce, right?

My non-apraxic son still has issues in reading whether to use a long or

short vowel, or even another vowel sound as a, o and u have three sounds!

But he can read and pronounce Latin and Spanish. He doesn't understand all

of it, but the pronunciation is there and there aren't short vs. long vowels

as frequently as in English.

Miche

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Kayce Spader <kaycespader@...> wrote:

> Ok, along the same lines here...we went to Mexico over the summer & they

> ALL

> understood Cody (even when I coulldn't).

> It was strange. DH wanted to know if he was really a Mexican baby!

>