Re: Receptive vs. Expressive Language for Apraxia

[Guest guest]

this was happening with my daughter at school. because the are all verbal test.

I finally had our dev ped do a noknverbal pictorial Iq test which should give u

a better idea of where she is. the language tests from my experiences are unfair

for apraxia.

[ ] Receptive vs. Expressive Language for Apraxia

From: " mgal33 " <mgal33@...>

Hi all. Evoni (19 mos)has scored 11 mos age level for receptive

language and 3 mos for expressive language (SLT used REEL 3 test I

believe). I keep coming across the apraxia signs red flag where

receptive language is age or almost age appropriate and expressive is

lower.

Anyone know of apraxia cases where receptive is significantly lower

than actual age?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

My son scored low receptive. Trned out it was a vision issue.

>

> Hi all. Evoni (19 mos)has scored 11 mos age level for receptive

> language and 3 mos for expressive language (SLT used REEL 3 test I

> believe). I keep coming across the apraxia signs red flag where

> receptive language is age or almost age appropriate and expressive is

> lower.

>

> Anyone know of apraxia cases where receptive is significantly lower

> than actual age?

>

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Hi . I'm new to the group and I was curious how you came about

having Evoni tested. My son, Dominic, is 21 months and my pediatrician

is just now getting serious about his lack of speech.

thanks!

-leslie

[Guest guest]

Hi there ,

If you haven't already, please get the book " The Late Talker " . It

really answers so many practical and technical questions, even those

you never knew you had.

I got the pediatrician to refer me to a pediatric neurologist . . .

some pediatricians seem to be limited in their knowledge of neuro and

should really refer you out asap. You could also go to a pediatrician

who specializes in developmental issues.

The neuro ped then referred me to the local Early Intervention office.

Every state provides this service for children under 3 years old;

after that, the public school system takes over. You can also contact

them yourself, you don't necessarily need a doc's referral. In some

states it's called Head Start (I think), in my area it's called Early

Intervention (EI). I think a quick google should point you in the

right direction. At worst, your pediatrician's office will definitely

have that info if you call them and ask.

The EI folks should set up a meeting in your home to sign you up for

the program, then set up a meeting with the program coordinator and a

speech language therapist to do an assessment. They test for receptive

language as well as expressive language. If they find that your child

scores a certain percentage behind (I think it's 25%) then they should

provide you with free, appropriate therapy in your home. It's my

understanding that there are different tests and testing methods out

there, so if the scoring doesn't work out for your benefit, don't let

it go. My opinion is that it's important not to understate your

child's speech issues in any way, instead emphasize them and speak up

about anything that seems even mildly pertinent -- for example, if he

has or has had eating issues or drools excessively, can't blow

bubbles, has sensory issues, tires easily or seems to have low tone, etc.

Having said all that, I sense that there's a move on the part of state

EIs to sort of avoid providing services if they can. I'm assuming it's

a funding issue. My office here employs " educators " , who are nice

people that come and try to stimulate your child cognitively (and thus

perhaps stimulate speech). My EI really, really wanted me to just

stick with a once per week educator and see how it goes. I did that

for a while and realized that the educators that I was seeing were not

at all qualified to provide speech therapy, particularly not within

the specialized parameters of apraxia etc.

I endured 7 months of an educator saying bah-bah-bah, with no result,

to my completely non-verbal daughter before I realized my head was

going to spontaneously pop off my body. Push for a qualified speech

therapist and do it immediately. It's my understanding that you are

entitled to receive free and appropriate therapy from this program.

I'm pretty sure you can get on the phone Monday with your local EI

office and get the ball rolling. Again, if you don't have it already,

get Gheng's book, it very clearly walks you through it all.

Best not to wait for your (I'm sure well-meaning) pediatrician to

figure things out on that level, your son may be heading for college

by that time. No disrespect to all the incredible and very educated

docs out there, it just seems that the complexity of so many of these

speech disorders is, understandably, outside of their realm of

in-depth knowledge. You can get to EI yourself, then get your ped on

board to support you and advocate for you.

Hope it helps -- let me know if there's anything I can tell you about.

Good luck,

>

> Hi . I'm new to the group and I was curious how you came about

> having Evoni tested. My son, Dominic, is 21 months and my pediatrician

> is just now getting serious about his lack of speech.

>

> thanks!

>

> -leslie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi . Thank you so much for the book recommendation! I have a lot

of homework to do.

I'm a bit angry at myself for allowing other people to influence me to

take a wait and see approach. It has just recently dawned on me that my

son has made no progress what-so-ever in his speech for at least the

past 9 months. He seems to understand everything I say and he points

and gestures to let me know what he wants, which has worked well for us

thus far.

I've taught him some sign language, but I'm beginning to think that he

has a fine-muscle coordination problem (although his gross motor

skills, like walking and running, are excellent) because he can't seem

to replicate even simple signs exactly. For example, the sign for bear

involves crossing your arms in front of your chest with your palms

facing you. My son moves his left arm across his chest and grabs his

left upper arm with his right hand. Plus, he still only draws in

scribbles and lines. I understand that he should be able to draw simple

shapes like circles by now.

Thank you for letting me vent :-) and thank you for taking time to let

me know what to expect and for giving me an idea of how to proceed from

here.

Best regards!

-leslie

> >

> > Hi . I'm new to the group and I was curious how you came about

> > having Evoni tested. My son, Dominic, is 21 months and my pediatrician

> > is just now getting serious about his lack of speech.

> >

> > thanks!

> >

> > -leslie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My son has both apraxia and a separate language disorder. When he started

speech therapy his receptive was higher than expressive, but over time they

became even then they would seesaw back and forth on (appropriate) tests.

Sometimes it is hard to tell which issue is causing his problem at which

time. I've even had some people say he wasn't apraxic because of his low

receptive scores. He CLEARLY had a motor planning issue as indicated on the

VMPAC test (an oral motor test) and after two years of 2x/wk prompt therapy

his VMPAC scores rose very significantly. Now his apraxia has mostly

resolved and the language issues are the bigger issue for him.

Miche

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 5:08 PM, mgal33 <mgal33@...> wrote:

> Hi all. Evoni (19 mos)has scored 11 mos age level for receptive

> language and 3 mos for expressive language (SLT used REEL 3 test I

> believe). I keep coming across the apraxia signs red flag where

> receptive language is age or almost age appropriate and expressive is

> lower.

>

> Anyone know of apraxia cases where receptive is significantly lower

> than actual age?

>

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Any eflux or allergy stuff?

>

> > Hi all. Evoni (19 mos)has scored 11 mos age level for receptive

> > language and 3 mos for expressive language (SLT used REEL 3 test I

> > believe). I keep coming across the apraxia signs red flag where

> > receptive language is age or almost age appropriate and

expressive is

> > lower.

> >

> > Anyone know of apraxia cases where receptive is significantly

lower

> > than actual age?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nope. He has allergies to pigweed and russian thistle (tumbleweed) and

cephalosporin antibiotics, but nothing else. He doesn't seem to improve

with dietary changes, is pretty much a fish oil non-responder. He did great

with vitamin E or it is an amazing coincidence that he had incredible speech

production growth at the same time it was introduced. I actually stopped

the vit e this summer because he became non-compliant on taking it. He has

had no regressions.

He doesn't have a lot of the soft signs for apraxia either, no hypotonia,

very very mild sensory quirks, but now SDI. He never had a regression, met

all motor milestones very early, but delayed in speech and language. He's

clearly a bright child and now has the non-language based IQ scores done

with separate tests and about 3 months apart which prove that. He did have

head trauma as a baby which might contribute and at the least assures us

insurance coverage for his therapies.

We truly believe his speech production (Apraxia) issues and his language

issues are two separate things that just happen to both be in one kid. I

don't feel that he was toxin damaged in any way.

Miche

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:54 AM, ilizzy03 <lizlaw@...> wrote:

> Any eflux or allergy stuff?

>

>

> >

> > My son has both apraxia and a separate language disorder. When he

> started

> > speech therapy his receptive was higher than expressive, but over

> time they

> > became even then they would seesaw back and forth on (appropriate)

> tests.

> > Sometimes it is hard to tell which issue is causing his problem at

> which

> > time. I've even had some people say he wasn't apraxic because of

> his low

> > receptive scores. He CLEARLY had a motor planning issue as

> indicated on the

> > VMPAC test (an oral motor test) and after two years of 2x/wk prompt

> therapy

> > his VMPAC scores rose very significantly. Now his apraxia has

> mostly

> > resolved and the language issues are the bigger issue for him.

> >

> > Miche

>

[Guest guest]

Very interesting. Sounds like my older kid. I have the allergy to

cephalosporin antibiotics. My older kids is a puzzle. She is celiac

but that hardly explains everything. She seems to have some viral

stuff as every time she gets sick she gets sharper and the worse the

virus the sharper she becomes and it stays. Not so great on fish oil,

responds to E. Got a concussion and was markedly sharper...that one

we really do not get. Not hypotonia or soft signs but showing signs

of APD. She too had head trauma at 12 mos. She can spak and well, hit

all the milestones but around 3 started to lose stuff. Unable to put

the words together to fully express herself. Better since we found

and addressed celiac and bad water and also using TLP. Had a

methylation issue and has a sulfation issue.

> > >

> > > My son has both apraxia and a separate language disorder. When

he

> > started

> > > speech therapy his receptive was higher than expressive, but

over

> > time they

> > > became even then they would seesaw back and forth on

(appropriate)

> > tests.

> > > Sometimes it is hard to tell which issue is causing his problem

at

> > which

> > > time. I've even had some people say he wasn't apraxic because of

> > his low

> > > receptive scores. He CLEARLY had a motor planning issue as

> > indicated on the

> > > VMPAC test (an oral motor test) and after two years of 2x/wk

prompt

> > therapy

> > > his VMPAC scores rose very significantly. Now his apraxia has

> > mostly

> > > resolved and the language issues are the bigger issue for him.

> > >

> > > Miche

> >

>

>

>