Re: question about DAN Dr and Dev Ped. and GFCF Diet (long response)

February 28, 2008

Hi ,

I know some will differ with me here, but I see no reason to see a

DAN doctor at this point if apraxia is your only concern. My first

son with global dyspraxia has made tremendous progress without seeing

a DAN doctor. However, I " doctor " him myself, and he takes a couple

of beneficial supplements, and we also do a few dietary things (see

my post today about artificials and dairy). I think detox and gut

health are important for all children, and I think there are some

inexpensive steps you can take to encourage those without the

assistance of a DAN doctor.

--Epsom salts baths provide magnesium sulfate, which is a natural way

to encourage detox. The 4-A's book by Bock (read this book!) has

some other recommendations, including drinking more water.

--Some supplements that may be helpful: fish oil, vitamin E,

carnitine, CoQ10, and probiotics come to mind immediately. Introduce

one at a time so that you can (attempt to) see what effect they

have. Some might be initially negative as your child adjusts, but if

the adjustment period drags on, stop the supplement and ask " why? " .

--Since the recent addition of mB12 shots to the baby's regimen has

been highly successful, I think they are one of the DAN protocol

items that I would recommend you seek out and try. Perhaps your

regular pediatrician would be willing to prescribe these? They are

not a radical thing... Check out www.neubrander.com for a lot of

information, including the best places to buy the shots once you have

a prescription. I think there is also dosing information that might

be useful to your pediatrician. It's based on weight.

--Try to eat a " clean " diet, important for all, even with no food

intolerances. The less bad stuff that comes in, the less that needs

to be detoxed out. Kids develop problems when they are exposed to

more toxins than their bodies can quickly get rid of.

I am not at all trying to be negative when I say the following:

apraxia is all you can see right now, but it may not be all there

is. For awhile, we thought that was our son's only problem. Then we

uncovered the low tone. Then a problem with artificials. Then a

dairy problem. Then minor auditory processing issues (greatly

affected by the dairy, but we didn't know). Once they start school,

more is asked of them, and that's when a lot of people (not just kids

with apraxia, but all kids) exhibit other stuff.

For so so so so so long, I missed the connections between physical

symptoms, speech, tone, processing, and behavior. For example, my

son had soft BM's for years and congestion for six month of the

year. When we solved those two problems, we saw TREMENDOUS gains.

Luckily, we didn't ignore those medical issues (deemed unimportant by

several doctors), or my son would probably still be receiving

services. So if your child has any minor medical issues that seem

unrelated, do not stop until you get real solutions. They may help

resolve the apraxia. A great DAN can be helpful on this end, but

with we went the mainstream medical route. (Probably why it

took so long...)

Because of the above, I think it's malpractice for a developmental

pediatrician to refuse to see your child because he " just " has

apraxia! First of all, apraxia is a neurological condition, which

should be his first tip off that it is a big deal. Secondly, he is

assuming that all parents are observant and educated in child

development. That is not true! I detected my son's low tone by a

parent-friendly tip in " The Late Talker " book: Does your child feel

heavier than he should for his weight? He did! So even though my

pediatrician and my very good SLP said he did not have low tone, I

took him for an OT evaluation. Before the OT even started the

official evaluation, she said, " I can already tell he has low tone by

the way he is sitting on the floor. " It had never even occurred to

me that his weird way of sitting was a developmental sign. (It

wasn't the obvious, " W " position. It was a wide, bent-knee straddle

with a right tilt. I've never seen it before or since on another

child.) For a doctor to assume that parents and therapists can see

what you need a trained medical doctor to see is crazy! (That said,

we haven't gotten no useful informaton from our developmental

pediatrican, who we like and comes highly recommended. She

didn't " see " anything new.)

I would suggest you try to find a different developmental

pediatrician, and if money is no object, see Dr. Agin in NYC.

Alternatively, an integrative physician or a DAN would be helpful,

especially if you can find a good, in-plan one. As I said before, it

doesn't seem that the expense of a DAN doctor is merited at this

time. My bias is always for a doctor who can do stuff rather than

write reports. That's why we do take our baby to a DAN, and we take

both boys to NACD for development of home therapy programs.

Hope that helps!

in NJ

>

> My son is 3yrs 3mos, with the Dx of Apraxia. We have known for

> about 10 mos. We have no other soft signs or anything. Just the

> Verbal and Oral Apraxia. He has been developmentally on target or

> ahead with everything else. He is becoming fluent with sign

language

> and is making continual progress in language.

>

> 1. The Dev Ped at Children's Hosp in Denver has declined to see

him

> multiple times because we have ONLY speech concerns. And will only

> see him if a SP has addtional concerns of other soft signs or

> delays. So should I still try and get him to be seen? Is it worth

> it if we don't have any other concerns developementally?

>

> 2. Given, that at this stage we aren't seeing any additional

> concerns would it be wise to see a DAN Dr? Given that it is obvious

> he doesn't have any form of Autism. Sensory Integration or

anything.

> I am unsure if we need to be concerned about heavy metals and such.

>

> 3. We tried going Dairy free for 2weeks and saw no change, was

that

> not long enough to see a differnce or is GFCF something that needs

to

> be done when you see additional things with the Apraxia?

>

> Thanks for any insight.

>

February 29, 2008

I love this post. There is nothing like finding tone on your own. I

found the tone issue the same way, via The Late Talker. What is

troublesome about your story and mine is that the geneticist said

that while he suspected genetically all was fine, the tone issues in

both kids (shocker to find this in my daughter who really is NT and

has great balance, athleticism, etc) he directed me to double check

vision and heart stuff as tone may speak to issues there. We are

covered on vision as they just went but the heart thing is a new appt

for this.

> >

> > My son is 3yrs 3mos, with the Dx of Apraxia. We have known for

> > about 10 mos. We have no other soft signs or anything. Just the

> > Verbal and Oral Apraxia. He has been developmentally on target

or

> > ahead with everything else. He is becoming fluent with sign

> language

> > and is making continual progress in language.

> >

> > 1. The Dev Ped at Children's Hosp in Denver has declined to see

> him

> > multiple times because we have ONLY speech concerns. And will

only

> > see him if a SP has addtional concerns of other soft signs or

> > delays. So should I still try and get him to be seen? Is it

worth

> > it if we don't have any other concerns developementally?

> >

> > 2. Given, that at this stage we aren't seeing any additional

> > concerns would it be wise to see a DAN Dr? Given that it is

obvious

> > he doesn't have any form of Autism. Sensory Integration or

> anything.

> > I am unsure if we need to be concerned about heavy metals and

such.

> >

> > 3. We tried going Dairy free for 2weeks and saw no change, was

> that

> > not long enough to see a differnce or is GFCF something that

needs

> to

> > be done when you see additional things with the Apraxia?

> >

> > Thanks for any insight.

> >

>

February 29, 2008

I get the vision thing, but tell me more about the heart. has

had a full workup by the CHOP cardiologist () twice due a benign

heart murmur. (For some reason, they want us to " keep an eye on it "

every couple of years, but I couldn't drag any pertinent information

out of the doctor as to why.)

>

> I love this post. There is nothing like finding tone on your own. I

> found the tone issue the same way, via The Late Talker. What is

> troublesome about your story and mine is that the geneticist said

> that while he suspected genetically all was fine, the tone issues in

> both kids (shocker to find this in my daughter who really is NT and

> has great balance, athleticism, etc) he directed me to double check

> vision and heart stuff as tone may speak to issues there. We are

> covered on vision as they just went but the heart thing is a new appt

> for this.

February 29, 2008

It was not a big conversation and I was zoned out that day

(translation: depressed...not that I wanted a genetic problem but

somehow I wanted what I always want and is truly unfair of me to

expect: THE ANSWER) but I am pretty sure what he was getting at is

the heart is a muscle and if you have tone issues in other muscles it

could present in the heart as well.

Both of my kids had murmurs. For it was benign and the

follow up within days of her birth and declared fine. She was

followed up on again when she kept turning blue (what we now suspect

were lead poisoning incidents) and declared fine and no murmur was

present.

For his heart numbers were bad from the beginning...likely a

comorbid thing with the fact that he was not breathing right from the

stridors. He was floppy and I now realize messed up. Yes, the guilt

of all I missed pushes me to look in all dark corners these days. At

three months he was declared fine heartwise. He turned blue on me and

the last time the cardiologist cleared him...that was in Oct. Since

bith kids see two different cardiologists I am consolidating and

going to 's who seemed more thorough.

My dad is low tone, had rheumatic fever as a kid and a heart murmur.

He lived a hard life and still never had heart stuff until his early

fevers. He does everything he is not supposed to both heartwise and

diabetes wise (type 2) and somehow has thus far, at near 70, escaped

the wrath.

I am not messing with this...I will follow up. I will ask her to

recheck carnitine levels as much has happened since they were last

checked. I do think though the fish oil doe help with this, correct.

Any new info I'll post.

> >

> > I love this post. There is nothing like finding tone on your own.

I

> > found the tone issue the same way, via The Late Talker. What is

> > troublesome about your story and mine is that the geneticist said

> > that while he suspected genetically all was fine, the tone issues

in

> > both kids (shocker to find this in my daughter who really is NT

and

> > has great balance, athleticism, etc) he directed me to double

check

> > vision and heart stuff as tone may speak to issues there. We are

> > covered on vision as they just went but the heart thing is a new

appt

> > for this.

>

February 29, 2008

Dear , thanks for your reply. It gives me some things to

consider.

We are already on a pretty wholesome diet (whole foods) and little or

no artificial anything including dyes and others. But what do you

mean by " clean diet? "

I agree that as time goes on, we may see some additional concerns and

frankly I am surprised that there isn't anything else obvious to my

untrained eye at the time being.

I will say that my son has very soft BMs. We took him to a GI Dr and

they said that it was just " toddlers diarreah " (sp?) and that it

should pass as he potty trains and can hold his poop in longer. THat

and he tends to get red or flushed cheeks often and is the first to

get sick in the home and tends to have runny noses a lot, especially

in the winter. So I wouldn't be suprised if there was something. All

standardized allergy tests have come back normal. Though I was

prepared for them to do that, despite that there may be something

anyhow.

>

> Because of the above, I think it's malpractice for a developmental

> pediatrician to refuse to see your child because he " just " has

> apraxia! First of all, apraxia is a neurological condition, which

> should be his first tip off that it is a big deal. Secondly, he is

> assuming that all parents are observant and educated in child

> development. That is not true! I detected my son's low tone by a

> parent-friendly tip in " The Late Talker " book: Does your child

feel

> heavier than he should for his weight? He did! So even though my

> pediatrician and my very good SLP said he did not have low tone, I

> took him for an OT evaluation. Before the OT even started the

> official evaluation, she said, " I can already tell he has low tone

by

> the way he is sitting on the floor. " It had never even occurred to

> me that his weird way of sitting was a developmental sign. (It

> wasn't the obvious, " W " position. It was a wide, bent-knee

straddle

> with a right tilt. I've never seen it before or since on another

> child.) For a doctor to assume that parents and therapists can see

> what you need a trained medical doctor to see is crazy! (That

said,

> we haven't gotten no useful informaton from our developmental

> pediatrican, who we like and comes highly recommended. She

> didn't " see " anything new.)

>

We haven't noticed anything that you mentioned as low tone. And he

is seeing and occupational therapist through the school 4 days a

week, and she was working at Children's Hospital before her position

there and she hasn't noticed it either.

Is the NACD the one where it has an office in Utah? We are possibly

moving to Salt Lake City for a new job for my husband, so perhaps we

can look into that given that we may have to start all over again

with new resources for my son in UT.

Thanks ,

Right now any information is of help!

February 29, 2008

You may have some luck looking at two books:

Is this your Child by Doris Rapp. Deals with allergy and the red

cheek thing is in there. I forget the culprit. More importantly there

are solutions in there.

Feast without Yeast helps with dietary approach.

One thing I will say, one of the best GFCF responders I know of is a

kid who was diagnosed epileptic and dyspraxic. Turns out she is

celiac. When her mom did this diet she just started letting the kids

have whatever they wanted at school until after the winter break and

started full on GFCF on winter break. For two weeks they were GFCF at

home and not at school and the mom says they saw what can best be

described as " suballergies " showing up. It was crazy and finally the

kids sel-limited. Her typical kid is doing better in school, etc. Not

telling you this to get you to do the diet. What I am saying is it

may be more telling not to go cold turkey. It really helped her

family. She kept a log and brought it all to the neuro and he was

thrilled that she uncovered this.

February 29, 2008

just my personal experience, my son (who is almost 8)

had soft/loose/diarrhea for almost three years, along

with extremely picky eater, red cheeks (like the

people who live in high-altitude), coarse skins,

cracked finger nails. his pedi and GI doctor all think

he was fine, since he does not look malnutritioned

(his weight/height are normal or above average). His

BM and other symptoms did not improve until we put him

on GC/CF/SF/CornFree diet along with

probiotics/vitamins/fish oils. His allergy only show

he is allergic to eggs. long story short, try to do

some food elimination test to see whether you can

improve his condition. I will start with diary

product, as it is relatively easier to do (than take

gluten out, it is said that gluten can impact your

body for up to six months after you eat it, while

casine's impact is much shorter, also gluten is in

anywhere, almost).

yujie

--- <kindredmamma@...> wrote:

> Dear , thanks for your reply. It gives me some

> things to

> consider.

>

> We are already on a pretty wholesome diet (whole

> foods) and little or

> no artificial anything including dyes and others.

> But what do you

> mean by " clean diet? "

> I agree that as time goes on, we may see some

> additional concerns and

> frankly I am surprised that there isn't anything

> else obvious to my

> untrained eye at the time being.

>

> I will say that my son has very soft BMs. We took

> him to a GI Dr and

> they said that it was just " toddlers diarreah " (sp?)

> and that it

> should pass as he potty trains and can hold his poop

> in longer. THat

> and he tends to get red or flushed cheeks often and

> is the first to

> get sick in the home and tends to have runny noses a

> lot, especially

> in the winter. So I wouldn't be suprised if there

> was something. All

> standardized allergy tests have come back normal.

> Though I was

> prepared for them to do that, despite that there may

> be something

> anyhow.

>

> >

> > Because of the above, I think it's malpractice for

> a developmental

> > pediatrician to refuse to see your child because

> he " just " has

> > apraxia! First of all, apraxia is a neurological

> condition, which

> > should be his first tip off that it is a big deal.

> Secondly, he is

> > assuming that all parents are observant and

> educated in child

> > development. That is not true! I detected my

> son's low tone by a

> > parent-friendly tip in " The Late Talker " book:

> Does your child

> feel

> > heavier than he should for his weight? He did!

> So even though my

> > pediatrician and my very good SLP said he did not

> have low tone, I

> > took him for an OT evaluation. Before the OT even

> started the

> > official evaluation, she said, " I can already tell

> he has low tone

> by

> > the way he is sitting on the floor. " It had never

> even occurred to

> > me that his weird way of sitting was a

> developmental sign. (It

> > wasn't the obvious, " W " position. It was a wide,

> bent-knee

> straddle

> > with a right tilt. I've never seen it before or

> since on another

> > child.) For a doctor to assume that parents and

> therapists can see

> > what you need a trained medical doctor to see is

> crazy! (That

> said,

> > we haven't gotten no useful informaton from our

> developmental

> > pediatrican, who we like and comes highly

> recommended. She

> > didn't " see " anything new.)

> >

>

> We haven't noticed anything that you mentioned as

> low tone. And he

> is seeing and occupational therapist through the

> school 4 days a

> week, and she was working at Children's Hospital

> before her position

> there and she hasn't noticed it either.

>

> Is the NACD the one where it has an office in Utah?

> We are possibly

> moving to Salt Lake City for a new job for my

> husband, so perhaps we

> can look into that given that we may have to start

> all over again

> with new resources for my son in UT.

>

> Thanks ,

> Right now any information is of help!

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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February 29, 2008

Hi ,

Yes, the NACD is based in Ogden, UT and they have another office in

West Chester, PA (where we go). Additionally, they travel to about a

dozen cities every three months to see clients.

Sounds like you are already eating a " clean diet " -- all natural is

the base, and avoiding bad additives like MSG and HFCS, buying

organic when possible, buying meat and dairy without hormones or

antibiotics, blah, blah, blah. We are far from perfect on this

score, but we try our best. I'm bad about the meat, because it is SO

much more money than regular, but since we're eating more meat now,

we probably should clean that up, too.

What is the OT working on 4x/week? That sounds like a lot if there

are no tone or sensory problems. Not a bad thing, just curious.

Regarding the BM's and congestion -- unfortunately, that was what we

were told. We saw two different GI's and had all the labs run.

Various people kept coming up with different reasons why he couldn't

get potty trained for BM's (toddler diarrhea, hypotonia, immature

boy, you're not trying hard enough, etc.) Then I started him on the

digestive enzymes. He potty trained OVERNIGHT for BM's and has never

had an accident. I now think the loose BM's were at least partially

explained by dairy intolerance. (He had milk, cheese, and yogurt

every day.) His gut is healthier now due to probiotics, enzymes,

fish oil, and dairy free diet.

The congestion is one of our wackier stories -- we cured that using

homeopathy, but since I'm not a " believer " I can't really explain how

the guy did it. Nevertheless, the congestion has never come back

after that treatment, even when on dairy. My friend and I jokingly

call him the witchdoctor. I'm all for whatever works, as long as

it's harmless. When he started giving us mercury and arsenic to cure

his gut, I bailed out. Too scary.

What effect did the dairy free trial have? Did anything change, for

better or for worse? Are you taking any supplements for the gut?

This is a very important component of general health, separate from

apraxia, and if the loose BM's continue much longer, I think they are

a message from his body. For some kids, it is as simple as drinking

a lot of juice or eating a lot of fruit (my daughter -- big fruit

head). For others, it could be a sign of food intolerance. Still

another option is yeast, which is really all guesswork in my

opinion. Some signs are obvious, but most are subtle, especially in

kids without autism. (www.danasview.net has a list of yeast signs,

but keep in mind that her kids have autism. Not all are generally

applicable, e.g. stimming.) Labwork can be helpful, but it is still

open to interpretation. It is not black and white.

If you haven't already done so, you may want to consider a good

probiotic. I honestly believe we should probably all be on

probiotics these days. Culturelle is a good quality brand and can be

found in a lot of different stores. (I even bought it at Sam's Club

once.)

Keeping a food diary might also help identify food intolerances.

This did not help us initially with , and in hindsight I think

we were struggling with yeast. That's why we tried the enzymes. The

ones we use cover lots of different foods, and also help with yeast.

Once they worked for us, we at least narrowed down the

possibilities. It can take awhile to figure these things out, but it

is well worth it.

in NJ

>

> Dear , thanks for your reply. It gives me some things to

> consider.

>

> We are already on a pretty wholesome diet (whole foods) and little

or

> no artificial anything including dyes and others. But what do you

> mean by " clean diet? "

> I agree that as time goes on, we may see some additional concerns

and

> frankly I am surprised that there isn't anything else obvious to my

> untrained eye at the time being.

>

> I will say that my son has very soft BMs. We took him to a GI Dr

and

> they said that it was just " toddlers diarreah " (sp?) and that it

> should pass as he potty trains and can hold his poop in longer.

THat

> and he tends to get red or flushed cheeks often and is the first to

> get sick in the home and tends to have runny noses a lot,

especially

> in the winter. So I wouldn't be suprised if there was something.

All

> standardized allergy tests have come back normal. Though I was

> prepared for them to do that, despite that there may be something

> anyhow.

>

> >

> > Because of the above, I think it's malpractice for a

developmental

> > pediatrician to refuse to see your child because he " just " has

> > apraxia! First of all, apraxia is a neurological condition,

which

> > should be his first tip off that it is a big deal. Secondly, he

is

> > assuming that all parents are observant and educated in child

> > development. That is not true! I detected my son's low tone by

a

> > parent-friendly tip in " The Late Talker " book: Does your child

> feel

> > heavier than he should for his weight? He did! So even though

my

> > pediatrician and my very good SLP said he did not have low tone,

I

> > took him for an OT evaluation. Before the OT even started the

> > official evaluation, she said, " I can already tell he has low

tone

> by

> > the way he is sitting on the floor. " It had never even occurred

to

> > me that his weird way of sitting was a developmental sign. (It

> > wasn't the obvious, " W " position. It was a wide, bent-knee

> straddle

> > with a right tilt. I've never seen it before or since on another

> > child.) For a doctor to assume that parents and therapists can

see

> > what you need a trained medical doctor to see is crazy! (That

> said,

> > we haven't gotten no useful informaton from our developmental

> > pediatrican, who we like and comes highly recommended. She

> > didn't " see " anything new.)

> >

>

> We haven't noticed anything that you mentioned as low tone. And he

> is seeing and occupational therapist through the school 4 days a

> week, and she was working at Children's Hospital before her

position

> there and she hasn't noticed it either.

>

> Is the NACD the one where it has an office in Utah? We are possibly

> moving to Salt Lake City for a new job for my husband, so perhaps

we

> can look into that given that we may have to start all over again

> with new resources for my son in UT.

>

> Thanks ,

> Right now any information is of help!

>

February 29, 2008

I'm somewhat confused by DAN! doctor qualifications. It seems that

they do not even have to be MDs!!! Why would a parent completely

change thier child's diet and add or subtract all kinds of

suppliments without the involvement of a medical doctor (it would

seem preferable to seek out a pediatrician of some sort).

Yujie: Did you start with the suppliments only? Did you add the

diets one at a time? It seems that it would be hard to say what

might have worked individually? Did you consult a MD before removing

foods from your child's diet?

: If the allergy tests came back normal, why are you still

considering special diets? I think it's great that you are on a

wholesome diet! It would probably do everyone good to eat less

artificial stuff. But, would you consult your pediatrician before

trying any of these diets?

Definately, mommy instinct should always be on alert. But, why

should we add extra stress to our already complicated lives by

questioning every weird poop (haven't we all had these

occasionally?) If your doctor is telling you thse are normal toddler

things, why not ask other mom's with " normal " toddlers to see if they

have experienced similar things. Then maybe ask mom's of school age

children if their toddlers experienced similar issues, and how long

it took to " grow out of " .

Just my random thoughts,

Kate

>

> > Dear , thanks for your reply. It gives me some

> > things to

> > consider.

> >

> > We are already on a pretty wholesome diet (whole

> > foods) and little or

> > no artificial anything including dyes and others.

> > But what do you

> > mean by " clean diet? "

> > I agree that as time goes on, we may see some

> > additional concerns and

> > frankly I am surprised that there isn't anything

> > else obvious to my

> > untrained eye at the time being.

> >

> > I will say that my son has very soft BMs. We took

> > him to a GI Dr and

> > they said that it was just " toddlers diarreah " (sp?)

> > and that it

> > should pass as he potty trains and can hold his poop

> > in longer. THat

> > and he tends to get red or flushed cheeks often and

> > is the first to

> > get sick in the home and tends to have runny noses a

> > lot, especially

> > in the winter. So I wouldn't be suprised if there

> > was something. All

> > standardized allergy tests have come back normal.

> > Though I was

> > prepared for them to do that, despite that there may

> > be something

> > anyhow.

> >

> > >

> > > Because of the above, I think it's malpractice for

> > a developmental

> > > pediatrician to refuse to see your child because

> > he " just " has

> > > apraxia! First of all, apraxia is a neurological

> > condition, which

> > > should be his first tip off that it is a big deal.

> > Secondly, he is

> > > assuming that all parents are observant and

> > educated in child

> > > development. That is not true! I detected my

> > son's low tone by a

> > > parent-friendly tip in " The Late Talker " book:

> > Does your child

> > feel

> > > heavier than he should for his weight? He did!

> > So even though my

> > > pediatrician and my very good SLP said he did not

> > have low tone, I

> > > took him for an OT evaluation. Before the OT even

> > started the

> > > official evaluation, she said, " I can already tell

> > he has low tone

> > by

> > > the way he is sitting on the floor. " It had never

> > even occurred to

> > > me that his weird way of sitting was a

> > developmental sign. (It

> > > wasn't the obvious, " W " position. It was a wide,

> > bent-knee

> > straddle

> > > with a right tilt. I've never seen it before or

> > since on another

> > > child.) For a doctor to assume that parents and

> > therapists can see

> > > what you need a trained medical doctor to see is

> > crazy! (That

> > said,

> > > we haven't gotten no useful informaton from our

> > developmental

> > > pediatrican, who we like and comes highly

> > recommended. She

> > > didn't " see " anything new.)

> > >

> >

> > We haven't noticed anything that you mentioned as

> > low tone. And he

> > is seeing and occupational therapist through the

> > school 4 days a

> > week, and she was working at Children's Hospital

> > before her position

> > there and she hasn't noticed it either.

> >

> > Is the NACD the one where it has an office in Utah?

> > We are possibly

> > moving to Salt Lake City for a new job for my

> > husband, so perhaps we

> > can look into that given that we may have to start

> > all over again

> > with new resources for my son in UT.

> >

> > Thanks ,

> > Right now any information is of help!

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

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>

February 29, 2008

I haven't met a highly qualified DAN! and both my DANS! are MD's too.

The reason they became DAN! doctors was so they could really learn to

treat the underlying issues of their patients neurological disorders.

To me stress comes from having children that are affected and the peace

comes from helping them recover. Recovering them in a year beats years

of IEPs, speech therapy, OT etc. However, these therapies are still

instrumental in rehabilitation.

Personally, I had pediatricians tell me that the chronic diarreah was a

toddler thing. Ummmm..no it isn't. I have cared for many toddlers and

this was not the norm.

I didn't consult my pediatrician when I started feeding my kids all the

processed baby cerals, and other snacks, so I didn't find it necessary

to get his blessing. I figured I knew best. Now I have two talking, very

normal sounding 4 year olds, within 10 months of eating organic fruits,

vegetables, and meats.

mykitkate wrote:

> I'm somewhat confused by DAN! doctor qualifications. It seems that

> they do not even have to be MDs!!! Why would a parent completely

> change thier child's diet and add or subtract all kinds of

> suppliments without the involvement of a medical doctor (it would

> seem preferable to seek out a pediatrician of some sort).

>

> Yujie: Did you start with the suppliments only? Did you add the

> diets one at a time? It seems that it would be hard to say what

> might have worked individually? Did you consult a MD before removing

> foods from your child's diet?

>

> : If the allergy tests came back normal, why are you still

> considering special diets? I think it's great that you are on a

> wholesome diet! It would probably do everyone good to eat less

> artificial stuff. But, would you consult your pediatrician before

> trying any of these diets?

>

> Definately, mommy instinct should always be on alert. But, why

> should we add extra stress to our already complicated lives by

> questioning every weird poop (haven't we all had these

> occasionally?) If your doctor is telling you thse are normal toddler

> things, why not ask other mom's with " normal " toddlers to see if they

> have experienced similar things. Then maybe ask mom's of school age

> children if their toddlers experienced similar issues, and how long

> it took to " grow out of " .

>

> Just my random thoughts,

>

> Kate

>

>>

>>> Dear , thanks for your reply. It gives me some

>>> things to

>>> consider.

>>>

>>> We are already on a pretty wholesome diet (whole

>>> foods) and little or

>>> no artificial anything including dyes and others.

>>> But what do you

>>> mean by " clean diet? "

>>> I agree that as time goes on, we may see some

>>> additional concerns and

>>> frankly I am surprised that there isn't anything

>>> else obvious to my

>>> untrained eye at the time being.

>>>

>>> I will say that my son has very soft BMs. We took

>>> him to a GI Dr and

>>> they said that it was just " toddlers diarreah " (sp?)

>>> and that it

>>> should pass as he potty trains and can hold his poop

>>> in longer. THat

>>> and he tends to get red or flushed cheeks often and

>>> is the first to

>>> get sick in the home and tends to have runny noses a

>>> lot, especially

>>> in the winter. So I wouldn't be suprised if there

>>> was something. All

>>> standardized allergy tests have come back normal.

>>> Though I was

>>> prepared for them to do that, despite that there may

>>> be something

>>> anyhow.

>>>

>>>> Because of the above, I think it's malpractice for

>>>>

>>> a developmental

>>>

>>>> pediatrician to refuse to see your child because

>>>>

>>> he " just " has

>>>

>>>> apraxia! First of all, apraxia is a neurological

>>>>

>>> condition, which

>>>

>>>> should be his first tip off that it is a big deal.

>>>>

>>> Secondly, he is

>>>

>>>> assuming that all parents are observant and

>>>>

>>> educated in child

>>>

>>>> development. That is not true! I detected my

>>>>

>>> son's low tone by a

>>>

>>>> parent-friendly tip in " The Late Talker " book:

>>>>

>>> Does your child

>>> feel

>>>

>>>> heavier than he should for his weight? He did!

>>>>

>>> So even though my

>>>

>>>> pediatrician and my very good SLP said he did not

>>>>

>>> have low tone, I

>>>

>>>> took him for an OT evaluation. Before the OT even

>>>>

>>> started the

>>>

>>>> official evaluation, she said, " I can already tell

>>>>

>>> he has low tone

>>> by

>>>

>>>> the way he is sitting on the floor. " It had never

>>>>

>>> even occurred to

>>>

>>>> me that his weird way of sitting was a

>>>>

>>> developmental sign. (It

>>>

>>>> wasn't the obvious, " W " position. It was a wide,

>>>>

>>> bent-knee

>>> straddle

>>>

>>>> with a right tilt. I've never seen it before or

>>>>

>>> since on another

>>>

>>>> child.) For a doctor to assume that parents and

>>>>

>>> therapists can see

>>>

>>>> what you need a trained medical doctor to see is

>>>>

>>> crazy! (That

>>> said,

>>>

>>>> we haven't gotten no useful informaton from our

>>>>

>>> developmental

>>>

>>>> pediatrican, who we like and comes highly

>>>>

>>> recommended. She

>>>

>>>> didn't " see " anything new.)

>>>>

>>> We haven't noticed anything that you mentioned as

>>> low tone. And he

>>> is seeing and occupational therapist through the

>>> school 4 days a

>>> week, and she was working at Children's Hospital

>>> before her position

>>> there and she hasn't noticed it either.

>>>

>>> Is the NACD the one where it has an office in Utah?

>>> We are possibly

>>> moving to Salt Lake City for a new job for my

>>> husband, so perhaps we

>>> can look into that given that we may have to start

>>> all over again

>>> with new resources for my son in UT.

>>>

>>> Thanks ,

>>> Right now any information is of help!

>>>

>>

> ______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

>

>> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

>> Find them fast with Search.

>>

> http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

February 29, 2008

for my son, who has autism (non-verbal), we started

the diet seriously (whole family) when he was almost

five. we did not do the diet in a scientific way, ie,

take one " allergic " food source away one at a time.

so, you might be right that he might only have the

reaction due to the

preservatives/colorings/pestcide/MSG/.../

but we achieve what we want, a healthy eater with a

regular BM, no more waking up at night screaming, no

more bloated tummy and mood swings

the diet (and to that extent the supplement) alone is

not enough, but it is the foundation, IMO, to a better

kid.

I don't know how your regular MDs are, but mine are

generally two subtypes (as they are basically the

same: THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO kind of MDs), one

subgroup are sympathetic, listening to what I say/do,

and if I want to slow down my younger son's shots,

s/he will follow. another subgroup, bascially telling

me that I am wasting my time/money as the

" mainstream/scientific " world has proven that autism

is a multi-gene disorder (one recent doctor's words

" <your son's situation is> like you bought a computer,

the hardware is bad, no matter what you put through

the keyboard, it is not going to change anything, the

computer is broken...)

my DAN said is right, if she prescribed psychotic

drug/stimulant to my son, she is mainstream, because

it is approved by FDA, if she gave vitamines, she is

out there...

so, I don't know why I should trust traditional MDs...

yujie

ps, my DAN is a MD (pediatrician specialized in ADHD)

before she left the mainstream field

--- mykitkate <mykitkate@...> wrote:

> I'm somewhat confused by DAN! doctor qualifications.

> It seems that

> they do not even have to be MDs!!! Why would a

> parent completely

> change thier child's diet and add or subtract all

> kinds of

> suppliments without the involvement of a medical

> doctor (it would

> seem preferable to seek out a pediatrician of some

> sort).

>

> Yujie: Did you start with the suppliments only? Did

> you add the

> diets one at a time? It seems that it would be hard

> to say what

> might have worked individually? Did you consult a

> MD before removing

> foods from your child's diet?

>

> : If the allergy tests came back normal, why

> are you still

> considering special diets? I think it's great that

> you are on a

> wholesome diet! It would probably do everyone good

> to eat less

> artificial stuff. But, would you consult your

> pediatrician before

> trying any of these diets?

>

> Definately, mommy instinct should always be on

> alert. But, why

> should we add extra stress to our already

> complicated lives by

> questioning every weird poop (haven't we all had

> these

> occasionally?) If your doctor is telling you thse

> are normal toddler

> things, why not ask other mom's with " normal "

> toddlers to see if they

> have experienced similar things. Then maybe ask

> mom's of school age

> children if their toddlers experienced similar

> issues, and how long

> it took to " grow out of " .

>

> Just my random thoughts,

>

> Kate

>

February 29, 2008

Hi Kate,

Perhaps you didn't read the whole thread? The original poster was

following your advice and asking for experienced moms to comment on

her personal situation. I responded with our experience, which to

sum it up again is " two GI's, an allergist, and our regular

pediatrician all said it was normal poop and we have no allergies --

right up until the minute I solved the problem myself overnight with

perfectly safe, over-the-counter enzymes. Then the two that I kept

in touch with (hated the other two) said, basically, 'great! Don't

know why those are working, but they are safe, so go for it.' Since

then, we have discovered on our own that artificials and dairy are

both problems for our son. " I think this personal information is

relevant and was delivered respectfully.

Regarding DAN doctors, ours is a well-respected family practitioner

medical doctor who has been in practice since the 70's. Check out

www.stocktonfp.com if you would like to check his credentials. Every

DAN practitioner that I have seen mentioned here is a medical doctor,

and I know that because they are well known in the community. While

I don't read every post, I think that says something about the

choices of the people in this group. Honestly, what kind of bozo

goes to a practitioner without knowing their qualifications first?

Furthermore, people often get a team of qualified individuals to

assist them with specific aspects of the program that has been

designed by the medical doctor. For example, Kim, Dr. Freedenfeld's

nurse, helps us with how to get the supplements into our child, where

we can get prescriptions filled correctly, and always answers my

repeat questions like " tell me again why this supplement is

recommended? " If we were on one of the more restrictive diets (we're

not, because our medical doctor has not deemed this necessary based

on his lengthy study of our labwork and medical reports), we would be

able to consult with a nutritionist to help us.

You know what confuses me? Why your post is full of criticism for

other moms and their choices, but offers no solutions or

suggestions. Not one dangerous practice was mentioned or suggested,

so safety is not a concern. If you know better than us, we would

love to hear to your suggestions. You may email me offline or post

here.

in NJ

>

> I'm somewhat confused by DAN! doctor qualifications. It seems that

> they do not even have to be MDs!!! Why would a parent completely

> change thier child's diet and add or subtract all kinds of

> suppliments without the involvement of a medical doctor (it would

> seem preferable to seek out a pediatrician of some sort).

>

> Yujie: Did you start with the suppliments only? Did you add the

> diets one at a time? It seems that it would be hard to say what

> might have worked individually? Did you consult a MD before

removing

> foods from your child's diet?

>

> : If the allergy tests came back normal, why are you still

> considering special diets? I think it's great that you are on a

> wholesome diet! It would probably do everyone good to eat less

> artificial stuff. But, would you consult your pediatrician before

> trying any of these diets?

>

> Definately, mommy instinct should always be on alert. But, why

> should we add extra stress to our already complicated lives by

> questioning every weird poop (haven't we all had these

> occasionally?) If your doctor is telling you thse are normal

toddler

> things, why not ask other mom's with " normal " toddlers to see if

they

> have experienced similar things. Then maybe ask mom's of school

age

> children if their toddlers experienced similar issues, and how long

> it took to " grow out of " .

>

> Just my random thoughts,

>

> Kate

February 29, 2008

,

" haven't " Was that a typo?

> > I'm somewhat confused by DAN! doctor qualifications. It seems

that

> > they do not even have to be MDs!!! Why would a parent completely

> > change thier child's diet and add or subtract all kinds of

> > suppliments without the involvement of a medical doctor (it would

> > seem preferable to seek out a pediatrician of some sort).

> >

> > Yujie: Did you start with the suppliments only? Did you add the

> > diets one at a time? It seems that it would be hard to say what

> > might have worked individually? Did you consult a MD before

removing

> > foods from your child's diet?

> >

> > : If the allergy tests came back normal, why are you still

> > considering special diets? I think it's great that you are on a

> > wholesome diet! It would probably do everyone good to eat less

> > artificial stuff. But, would you consult your pediatrician

before

> > trying any of these diets?

> >

> > Definately, mommy instinct should always be on alert. But, why

> > should we add extra stress to our already complicated lives by

> > questioning every weird poop (haven't we all had these

> > occasionally?) If your doctor is telling you thse are normal

toddler

> > things, why not ask other mom's with " normal " toddlers to see if

they

> > have experienced similar things. Then maybe ask mom's of school

age

> > children if their toddlers experienced similar issues, and how

long

> > it took to " grow out of " .

> >

> > Just my random thoughts,

> >

> > Kate

February 29, 2008

late talkers don't always take years of therapy...some don't

even need any because in 75% of the cases it's developmental and they

will just start talking. There are also tons of archives from

parents who have a child that was diagnosed apraxic or PDD who just

did speech therapy and gave fish oils who have children that were

mainstreamed and talking fine by kindergarten. It's pretty

simple.

I don't understand why you feel you need to see a Dan -

especially since you say that you haven't met a highly qualified Dan

and both your Dan people are MDs (as we know some are not)

For those just starting out -here's another Dan who also doesn't

appear to be qualified no less highly qualified

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=584 from Left Brain Right Brain

May also want to check this out before you choose a Dan

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=545

(click on the link " Dan doctors " and then click on US or UK)

Again many of us including me never went this route. I only took my

children to see highly qualified medical doctors.

=====

March 1, 2008

,

EXCELLENT response! I could not have said it better.

Thank you!

Yvette in NJ

mom to Alyssa former 23 weeker will be 8 y.o. 3/3/08

FINALLY dx'd this year with high functioning Autism & ADD

[ ] Re: question about DAN Dr and Dev Ped. and GFCF

Diet (long response)