New to the group - Kid - non verbal

[Guest guest]

My son 27 months, diagnosed Autistic 3 months back. He use dto have few

words, he lost all of them. From last 2 days he is saying eyes.

Can anybody suggest me what to do and how to get him talking.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for your time.

MS

[Guest guest]

Welcome aboard. Many people can give you many places to look. One thing

I can tell you is that we had lost words at that age and our deal was

metabolic. I only knew where to look and what to do when I reviewed the

malabsorption stuff and apraxia labs in the links section of this

board. As for the rest of the welcome, I'll leave that to others. Best

wishes to you and your child and never, ever give up hope or be fearful

of asking a question, you found the right board.

>

> My son 27 months, diagnosed Autistic 3 months back. He use dto have

few

> words, he lost all of them. From last 2 days he is saying eyes.

> Can anybody suggest me what to do and how to get him talking.

>

> Any suggestions are welcome.

>

> Thanks for your time.

>

> MS

>

[Guest guest]

Hi MS and welcome!!

Do you agree with the diagnosis and if so why? Who gave the

diagnosis to your child and did you take him for a second opinion?

When you say your child is saying " eyes " do you mean the letter " I "

or did you mean to say something about eye contact?

Loss of words can also be a sign of apraxia or other reasons, not

just a sign of autism. If the diagnosis was not from a neuroMD

(pediatric neurologist or developmental pediatrician) than for that

reason alone he needs to be taken to one. (and again if you did take

your child to one nothing wrong with a second opinion from someone

that is knowledgeable and respected. You could probably get some

names of good MDs from this group)

There are those children that have both autism and apraxia. Also in

this group we have parents like Jeanne Buesser who is a moderator

here and President of the Apraxia Network of Bergen County and mom to

one child with ADHD and apraxia and one with autism. There is a

distinct difference between autism and apraxia in regards to both

diagnosis and therapy even though some aspects of both diagnosis can

overlap in regards to for example sensory issues. It's most

important at the stage you are in to make sure that the diagnosis is

appropriate before anything else.

Diagnosis names wouldn't typically matter if the treatment was the

same. In this case misdiagnosis does matter so that's why I'm trying

to help you find out if your diagnosed-before-2-years-old child

really is autistic. And if not -then what and why for the loss of

words? If your child is 'not' autistic then some of the therapies

(specifically ABA) are not appropriate and may even be detrimental to

your child..so you want to know. If a child has both autism and

apraxia they would need modified ABA by one who is knowledgeable

about apraxia so you don't end up with psychological damage on top of

the primary diagnosis.

Apraxia is a motor planning disorder where the child knows what he or

she wants to say or do -and desperately wants to be able to -but

can't. Have you read The Late Talker book because there is a wealth

of new to " late talker " info that may point you in the right

direction. Below is an archive about a parent who has a child that

was given two different diagnosis by the same team and my response to

her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

Hi Patti,

The two diagnosis from the same team? " Different treatment,

prognosis " is this what they said, or you are not sure? We don't

know your child, any of the history or symptoms...or even age -so

your guess is better than any of ours at this point what this

means. Actually better yet -if you want to know you'll have to ask

the professionals (MD? SLP? OT?) that gave these two diagnosis, but

I do have a few observations.

Since apraxia is one of the diagnosis and insurance is so needed to

help cover the years of intensive therapy costs if private therapy

is also done -probably whomever you took your child to either didn't

read The Late Talker book that I co wrote with neurodevelopmental MD

and Medical Director of NYC EI Marilyn Agin MD, or didn't get up to

page 87 of the book if they included both of these diagnosis on your

child's report.

The " developmental " codes which include 315.31, the code used for

developmental expressive language disorder, is under the " codes to

avoid " in our book The Late Talker -and we state " Use them at your

peril, as you may not be reimbursed. " What codes did they use for

insurance reasons?

" Some speech disorders can overlap, or be misdiagnosed. For

example, " Verbal apraxia, a disorder of central nervous system (CNS)

processing, and dysarthria, a disorder of output, are commonly

confused " , says Dr. , chief of child development at the

Chicago College of Medicine. " Experts are able to differentiate

between these two disorders by listening carefully to a child's

speech and by identifying certain physical clues " , says Dr. ,

but adds, " These disorders are poorly understood by physicians and

by a lot of speech therapists as well. " It is possible for

phonological disorders, apraxia and dysarthria to all occur together

in the same child. Speech Language Impairments, which is connected

to language based learning difficulties may also be present. And the

severity of each may vary. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/latetalkerhandout.html

Yes speech impairments can overlap and coexist together with other

disorders -however children are typically diagnosed as having a

developmental expressive language disorder when they rule out motor

deficits (apraxia is a motor planning disorder), sensory deficits

(most children with apraxia also have mild sensory deficits) and the

other multifaceted impairment of communication that most children

with apraxia have.

Sign of developmental expressive language disorder from the American

Psychiatric Association, 1994, pp. 60-61

" If Mental Retardation, a speech-motor or sensory deficit, or

environmental deprivation is present, the language difficulties are

in excess of those usually associated with these problems. "

If your child is preschool age and has symptoms of apraxia then I

understand the diagnosis of suspected apraxia. With oral apraxia

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/oralapraxia.html

the diagnosis can made as young as 18 months. Apraxia therapy won't

hurt and can help stimulate language in any late talker. What I

don't get is since most children with developmental expressive

language disorder don't have motor or sensory deficits - if your

child is nonverbal or essentially nonverbal, how did they know your

child has both diagnosis -or is your child talking?

Most of the children with apraxia also have mild (subtle) soft signs

of neurological damage even though some children can have more

severe symptoms -not as typical of this group

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/parentfriendlysoftsigns.html

such as mild low tone, mild motor planning issues in other

areas of the body, mild sensory issues, (and can I add to this stuff

nobody talks about yet like -problems blowing their nose on command,

late potty training and then once they finally do -constipation?!)

And Una -since apraxia is multifaceted, most children that have it

typically have other symptoms. Put that together with the fact that

most are still clueless about what apraxia is and the fact

this " rare " disorder is on the rise (and out of control in NJ and

some other states) and the diagnosis your apraxic child could get

from someone that isn't knowledgeable about all the multifaceted

communication disorders out there could just be any one of the

symptoms alone (thus the " your child has an expressive language

delay " or " your child has sensory integration dysfunction " which

isn't exactly an incorrect diagnosis...but won't help to get your

child the appropriate and intensive early intervention that would so

greatly benefit him or her in all areas. And...since autism is so

well known - your child may receive a diagnosis of " PDD NOS " since

in theory that diagnosis could probably fit just about anyone in the

world. Only problem with it is that in most cases the therapy

recommended for PDD NOS is ABA therapy, which if the child does not

have autism or another disorder that requires ABA - is not

appropriate for apraxia, and may be detrimental. Children with

apraxia, a motor planning disorder, want desperately to talk -and

need to be taught how to. There is a big difference between a child

who only has severe apraxia and one who has severe autism -there

isn't as much of a difference between PDD and severe apraxia in some

ways -but for those of us in areas where there are lots of children

with both -or for parents who have more than one child who has one

of each, the difference is not hard to spot. (PDD NOS -Una just

curious -do you live in California?)

While most children with less severe disorders of speech can get

away with just speech therapy -most of us with apraxic children have

our children in speech and occupational therapy -as well as other

multisensory therapies to help. While the therapy for apraxia won't

hurt and most likely will benefit a child who even has just a mild

delay of speech -therapy for a child with a developmental expressive

language disorder will not be appropriate for a child with apraxia

for multiple reasons.

Even though almost all of us with apraxic children thought our

children were " just " late talkers when they are two or three -as

they grow older (and in hindsight) the symptoms are there and just

overlooked, or excused away. Like our calling Tanner " the serious

baby " because he had almost no facial expressions -ever. This is

the reason to see a neurodevelopmental MD if apraxia is suspected so

early intervention can begin. Since this came up recently I just

want to add that it's not uncommon for any child with communication

frustrations to either withdraw or lash out. You can tell the

difference of these behaviors from frustration rather than from

another underlying cause including autism by providing your child

with alternative ways to communicate and observing to see if and

when the behaviors fade or become worse. I know for my son Tanner

he was social in one on one situations and withdrew in groups which

is why during preschool years we didn't enroll him in a " normal "

preschool. Tanner even though " deprived " of normal preschool is now

hugely social with no self esteem damage which the frustration can

lead to in cases.

As parents at times with communication impairments it's important

for us to explain and/or videotape our children when not in clinical

settings where they may be stressed and " not themselves " to share

with the professionals.

My questions are:

Does your child have any soft signs?

How old is your child and how is he or she talking/communicating now?

Does your child have any social deficits? Play appropriate with

others, toys etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

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