Re: Response to ! - ABA is NOT just for autism

[Guest guest]

I have to jump on the ABA comment. One person with a bad ABA

experience does not make ABA bad. ABA is appropriate for autism AND

developmental delays. True, if your child only has apraxia, ABA is

not going to help much (but should not hurt if done properly). We

use the verbal behavior approach and my son would not be where he is

today without it. I don't think my son would respond as well with

the discreet trial method. Parents have to look at what

method " fits " their child.

How many here have reported a bad experience with a speech

therapist? Not once has anyone said speech therapy is bad because

they experienced a bad speech therapist. Let's keep the same

standard for ABA.

Some of the ABA horror stories mentioned here just make me scratch my

head. How could the parents not have known what was going on? I am

not in the room while my son gets ABA, but I do have a monitor I turn

on occassionally and we video tape some session for our BCBA to

observe. Some of the ABA is natural environment, so they may go

outside or they may go to different parts of the house.

As with any type of therapy, you don't leave your child unattended

with someone in a closed room and not have some way of monitoring the

situation.

My son with developmental delays is doing much better because of ABA

and I know many others who make the same claim.

>

> Where I'm from the words freaking out mean upset -worried -so sorry

> you take that as an insult and I apologize for that.

>

> I do wonder however why after reading my email to you that you

> didn't respond to any of the questions about therapy. Or for that

> matter studies about how EFAs alone help with eczema. I only

posted

> the one study -but there are others. As parents we each get to do

> what we want with our children -but if you don't want to listen to

> someone with older children who has run this group for years and

has

> watched the high success rate here- then that's your choice. But

if

> your child doesn't progress you are welcome to try the way most of

us

> did. Your child is still way too young to know that he is a tough

> nut to crack -and you have not even tried what works for most as I

> posted in the message below and you have your child that you say is

> not autistic in ABA and didn't comment so I'll drop that too.

> Sometimes people have to learn things the hard way.

>

> BTW Tanner also had what was diagnosed at the time as baby

eczema.

> We limited Tanner's milk (not eliminated it) due to constipation

> issues -years after the eczema -but that was also before I

discovered

> raw milk. As you can read from the link below which is just one of

> the archives -this one from 2004 -my son and my husband are both

> clear of eczema due to fish oils. Best of luck to you and your

> child -and I really mean that.

>

> From Tue Oct 7, 2003 10:36 am

>

> The other reason to know what the rash is from -is to find out if

> it's a rash or baby eczema which is not uncommon in this group. I

> had Tanner back and forth to the pediatrician a zillion times before

> I finally got the referral to the pediatric dermatologist to

> diagnose the baby eczema Tanner had. This was of course all long

> before we started any fish oil supplementation at around 3 -in fact

> his baby

> eczema was a sign to all that his body was deficient in EFAs! Well

> let me tell you that Tanner, before the actual diagnosis of baby

> eczema, was

> diagnosed with everything from allergic reaction to ring worm! (Ok

> we all live and learn. They were an awesome practice and right on

> the ball with my son Dakota. With Tanner -our " healthy " baby -

very,

> too

> laid back. That was also the same pediatric group that told us not

> to go for a speech and hearing evaluation with Tanner until three)

>

> Funny thing is that once on the EFAs at three -Tanner's eczema

became

> just a

> funny memory about trips to the MD -it's gone. That's why you want

> to know for sure what the rash is. Allergy, disease, or skin

> condition.

>

/message/23587

>

> As PS as far as diet -people can live on just about any diet.

Here's

> an archive about a girl I went to HS with who I met again at a

> reunion and she's still alive and seemed healthy...in spite of.

>

> I went to

> > school with this girl Jane T. who's mom was a nurse and who

> > wouldn't eat anything every day but hamburgers, french fries, and

> > Twinkies. She told us back then that " everything else smells

> gross "

> > and " if it smells gross I won't eat it "

> >

> > Skinny as anything -almost made it into the Olympics she was that

> > talented as a gymnast, and was after HS and college a show girl in

> > the Islands till she got married. Ran into Jane T. at a HS

> > reunion and she told a table of us that she keeps cartons of

> > Twinkies in her house she is so afraid they will stop making them.

> > Strange but true -can't make that stuff up!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

it sounds like you are doing everything right. The fact that

there are a number of ABA horror stories is the reason we bring it

up. Not every parent is aware that there could be a downside.

Here's an archive (and if you have to scratch your head -could that

be candida?) )

Re: Why can ABA be harmful for those that don't need it (was support

group)

Hi -long archive message on this. Again not that ABA

is " bad " but it's the only therapy I know that you need to be careful

with- and that can be inappropriate. (others can be a waste of time

and/or money -but the others don't come with a caution label...and

no -it doesn't literally come with a caution label...you know what -

all this is probably already covered in the incredibly long archive

below!) But just to make this clear once again -for those who have

children that need ABA/respond to it ...your child probably

isn't " just " apraxic. (some have both autism and apraxia)

We have a member in this group (from NJ) with an apraxic child

who sued that child's ABA therapist for abuse, and won...and that's

not the only

story. Think that's story is below but if not -you can archive it.

ABA in some cases can stand for " always be around " (during therapy)

And yes -we have members here who are parents..and wonderful ABA

therapists...but again ABA may not always be appropriate.

" kiddietalk " kiddietalk@...

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:11 am

Re: How is ABA harmful?

> I keep reading that ABA can be harmful for apraxic kids. Could

someone

> please elaborate?

Since your message is so short -I thought I'd put the question on

top since my answer is so long. (good if you need to pull out

anything from here to help -much is in one place)

It's hard to know where to start so I'll just start here: There's a

huge difference in a child that needs speech therapy that may

include strengthening, motor planning techniques etc. to 'teach'

them how to talk, and using either positive (or God forbid) negative

behavioral techniques (rewards, punishments) to 'encourage' speech.

What if such child already 'desperately wants to talk...to the point

of frustration -but just can't? What happens when you add strict

behavioral methods to " get " them to talk? You risk creating

secondary to the diagnosis psychological problems such as

who developed post traumatic stress from ABA

http://www.cherab.org/news/.html , damage to that child's

self esteem, or at least even more severe frustration. Or check the

archives -you may as one family from Jersey found -video tape a

therapy session that puts that therapist in jail. (see aversive

techniques below)

This topic creates much stir because there are wonderful ABA

therapists and for those children that require or need it, it has

been a lifesaver. And then there are those who have children with

autism and apraxia who have awesome therapists that use modified ABA

with great results -but in those cases the ABA therapist is aware of

the child's inabilities.

Problem is that is not always the case...too many apraxic children

are diagnosed with " PDD NOS " and provided ABA therapy as the way to

get that child to talk when that approach is not appropriate and may

be detrimental as I'll explain. I had my son Tanner pulled from his

preschool placement and placed in out of district placement due to

inappropriate behavioral techniques. Parents come to CHERAB all the

time desperate for help on this topic. For example from just

yesterday....(if anyone here is from Tennessee -or anywhere near

there -please let me know because this parent is willing to drive,

or even fly for help for her child. She has already contacted Dr.

Agin after I provided her number, but perhaps someone here has

someone in the meantime that is closer?)

" I called the CHERUB number because I am getting desperate as we

don't have a diagnosis, he is in EI (he's 3) but they are treating

him behaviorally and acting like he is autistic when I know good and

well that he isn't. He has been in a classroom for 3 weeks with all

autistic kids and they have completely messed up his sensory diet so

badly that we feel we are right back to where we were before we

began OT. I kept him out of school and took him to a private co-

treat today and he was practically catatonic and almost vomited

while in the swing. I was horrified. Even his private speech

therapist, who is the best in our area, is treating him as if he is

autistic even though she admits that I could be right about my

belief that he is apraxic with sensory integration issues. She also

tells me she would treat him differently if he were diagnosed as

such. Which is why I have to find an MD who knows about apraxia and

is willing to look at other things besides ASD.

So, just add me to the list of mothers who, for some reason, have to

go through this hazing before finding what is right for our precious

ones. "

If this message horrifies you answer her here so she can read it.

She is a new member that just joined, and she will probably answer

you offlist -but I hope that she feels comfortable to speak about

this here too. The more we talk about this -the more aware we all

are -the less severe negative stories we'll hear about.

Here are articles posted about another member here who's

child's " therapist " is going to jail. We have to as a group feel

free to discuss this here. We all know silence is NOT golden. For

the good ABA therapists...and most important for the sake of the

children -something has to be done about this!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

Admitted Child Abuser to Be Sentenced Friday, June 2, for Abusing Dy

" webewords " webewords@...

Wed May 31, 2006 1:21 pm

Admitted child abuser Zucker-Klein of 30 Vista Trail, Wayne,

NJ,

will be sentenced to jail for endangering the welfare of a child for

abusing a dyspraxic, nonverbal child she was tutoring at his home in

Westwood, NJ.

Under the guise of " behaviorism, " she subjected him to poking with a

pen, slapping on the head, yanking his head back by his hair,

punching

him, putting a bag over his head, among other things, for taking too

long to answer (using an augmentive device) a question or for getting

an answer wrong. The parents caught her on tape.

The sentencing will be at 9 a.m. Friday, June 2, 2006, in the court

of

Judge Roma, 4th Floor, Bergen County Courthouse in

Hackensack,

NJ. Any sympathetic parent who is nearby may want to be there for

support.

This messages is posted by relatives of the victim, who wish to

remain

anonymous. I ask the several members who may know our email address

to

keep our names secret. "

~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

=====

[Guest guest]

I guess the statement that ABA is only for autism is my biggest

concern. I used to think that was the case and fortunately a wonderful

SLP in my area enlightened me. I told her about my sons developmental

delays and she told me to try ABA (particularly verbal behavior). I

responded, " but he doesn't have autism. " She said it didn't matter. If

I had never met this woman, my son would have been deprived of the very

therapy he desparately needed.

I think we're in agreement that ABA will probably not benefit a child

who " only " has apraxia. If someone in that situation still decided to

try the verbal behavior method, it should not cause harm (other than to

your wallet if paying out of pocket) but probably would not produce

many benefits.

The wonderful thing about ABA is that it may be paid for by the school

district as my son's program is. Unfortunately, some of the school

personnel do believe this therapy is only for autism, so they may need

to be educated. I hate to have someone eliminate ABA as a possible

therapy for their child when it is something that may help them.

>

> it sounds like you are doing everything right. The fact that

> there are a number of ABA horror stories is the reason we bring it

> up. Not every parent is aware that there could be a downside.

> Here's an archive (and if you have to scratch your head -could that

> be candida?) )

>

> Re: Why can ABA be harmful for those that don't need it (was support

> group)