Re: Braden stumped the psychologist

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

our psych did not wait until she saw an outburst with her own eyes..

she took all the documentation from the schools . at that time WE haven't seen

any outburst, only meltdowns. NOW we are sure the school wasn't kidding <g>

he is jumping at everything said to him, and everyone, including us are seeing

him at his worst. in the other hand, our psych hesitated because ds was " too good

in math " for an Aspie. well, maybe I should tell her he is " fina lly " getting

behind his class in math. but I have a friend who has an Aspie who is a genius

in math and physics. so?

funny what these professionals stall on......

F

( ) Braden stumped the psychologist

DH and I had our meeting with the Asperger specialist psych last

night. After three sessions with Braden he is not yet able to give

us a diagnosis. He was genuinely intrigued. He says he definitely

shows some Asperger traits, and if he were just going by the list of

behaviors I wrote out for him and the Asperger rating scales DH and I

both filled out, he would diagnose AS. But he said that Braden just

didn't behave they way he would have expected him to behave in the

sessions...he didn't see the kid we had described at all. No

temper. (Why am I not surprised??) Fortunately, I had provided him

with plenty of records documenting his history of outbursts and

disruptive behavior in school, so he is not at all questioning our

honesty. He just needs to see him have the outburst. (Maybe I should

offer to send Braden to live with him for a month or two!!) He joked

that Braden doesn't fit any of his Asperger sub-type categories and

he may have to create a new one for him! He said he played Checkers

and Connect Four with him and deliberately beat him time after time

after time...no problem. He said he even deliberately criticized

Braden, telling him he wasn't thinking and moved too fast. Nada.

Nothing. Most pleasant, easy-going kid in the world. AARRGGHH!!!

This is the kid who usually quits the minute I get ahead of him in

Checkers!! What gives here? On his best behavior for the new guy?

He did say that he agrees with me that Braden doesn't seem to have

Tourette's Syndrome and that Braden does show some ADHD traits, but

that there is something more. He noted that Braden was very sketchy

on details and couldn't tell him things like his sister's age. He

also noted that Braden didn't seem aware of a lot of his problems -

like unusual fears.

Soooo, next week we are going to bring Braden in and confront him

like we did . When we did this to , he got really upset. So

I am hopeful that it will set Braden off too, but I'm not sure. I'm

concerned that Braden is only going to be set off in the real world

setting. I'm not sure we will be able to jerk his chains enough to

get a reaction. So, the mystery continues.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Too good in math to be an aspie? Hmmmm maybe the doc needs a refresher course.

Aspies have a tendency to excell in one or more areas and and can be below

normal in other areas. That is typical for an aspie.

I think thats just like saying well he is social so he can't be an aspie. You

have to go deeper. Yes he likes to be in a room full of people but he dosen't

interact with any of them. He prefers to be alone.

Zach is 14 and has discovered he likes to talk on the phone but not face to

face. He has the monotone voice to go along with it. In summer school his

teacher said he was socialable----more like the class clown.

MISSY

SAHM to some special kids!!!

Excuse Me While I Go

Raise Tomorrow's Future.

( ) Braden stumped the psychologist

DH and I had our meeting with the Asperger specialist psych last

night. After three sessions with Braden he is not yet able to give

us a diagnosis. He was genuinely intrigued. He says he definitely

shows some Asperger traits, and if he were just going by the list of

behaviors I wrote out for him and the Asperger rating scales DH and I

both filled out, he would diagnose AS. But he said that Braden just

didn't behave they way he would have expected him to behave in the

sessions...he didn't see the kid we had described at all. No

temper. (Why am I not surprised??) Fortunately, I had provided him

with plenty of records documenting his history of outbursts and

disruptive behavior in school, so he is not at all questioning our

honesty. He just needs to see him have the outburst. (Maybe I should

offer to send Braden to live with him for a month or two!!) He joked

that Braden doesn't fit any of his Asperger sub-type categories and

he may have to create a new one for him! He said he played Checkers

and Connect Four with him and deliberately beat him time after time

after time...no problem. He said he even deliberately criticized

Braden, telling him he wasn't thinking and moved too fast. Nada.

Nothing. Most pleasant, easy-going kid in the world. AARRGGHH!!!

This is the kid who usually quits the minute I get ahead of him in

Checkers!! What gives here? On his best behavior for the new guy?

He did say that he agrees with me that Braden doesn't seem to have

Tourette's Syndrome and that Braden does show some ADHD traits, but

that there is something more. He noted that Braden was very sketchy

on details and couldn't tell him things like his sister's age. He

also noted that Braden didn't seem aware of a lot of his problems -

like unusual fears.

Soooo, next week we are going to bring Braden in and confront him

like we did . When we did this to , he got really upset. So

I am hopeful that it will set Braden off too, but I'm not sure. I'm

concerned that Braden is only going to be set off in the real world

setting. I'm not sure we will be able to jerk his chains enough to

get a reaction. So, the mystery continues.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

But he said that Braden just

> didn't behave they way he would have expected him to behave in the

> sessions...he didn't see the kid we had described at all. No

> temper. (Why am I not surprised??) (Maybe I should

> offer to send Braden to live with him for a month or two!!) He

joked

> that Braden doesn't fit any of his Asperger sub-type categories and

> he may have to create a new one for him! He said he played

Checkers

> and Connect Four with him and deliberately beat him time after time

> after time...no problem. He said he even deliberately criticized

> Braden, telling him he wasn't thinking and moved too fast. Nada.

> Nothing. Most pleasant, easy-going kid in the world. AARRGGHH!!!

Kathy, this does not surprise me either. My dd has been

confusing people for years. I am not sure if you remember or not but

we do not have a definative dx either. Our official dx says..Rule Out

Asperger's. Although he would not dx he said he firmly believed she

was. I finally received that large package yesterday from the

hospital and even though I am still not happy ( did not send me

exactly what I asked for and they said they had )there were some

interesting points. On many of the test papers were questions asked

of her that I ABSOLUTELY know that she knew the answers to but her

replies were " I don't know. " She does not seem to take the tests

seriously causing her to score much lower than she should. Also my dd

is notorious for getting mad while playing board games and this

doctor played Candy Land with her....same thing happened, he beat her

and she did not react.

[Guest guest]

> Kathy,

> our psych did not wait until she saw an outburst with her own eyes..

> she took all the documentation from the schools . at that time WE

haven't seen any outburst, only meltdowns. NOW we are sure the school

wasn't kidding <g>

> he is jumping at everything said to him, and everyone, including us

are seeing him at his worst. in the other hand, our psych hesitated

because ds was " too good in math " for an Aspie. well, maybe I should

tell her he is " fina lly " getting behind his class in math. but I

have a friend who has an Aspie who is a genius in math and physics.

so?

> funny what these professionals stall on......

> F

Fania,

Yes, I remember your psych and the math issue. This psych hasn't

given up. He just seemed genuinely intrigued and boggled. From all

the documentation we gave him and what we've reported, he absolutely

believes us. That's not the problem. It's just that he has had so

much experience with these kids, and he really expected to be able to

get him to react in frustration if he pushed. But he saw none of

it. He only saw Braden being calm and polite. And he's confused

about why he didn't react the way he expected him too. ly,

although I can't explain why, I'm not surprised at all that he didn't

react to the psych's attempts to upset him. It doesn't surprise me

at all. But I am hopeful that if we all gang up on him in the next

session we will be able to get a rise out of him.

If you met Braden, you would fully understand this psych's dilemma.

He IS a dilemma, as I have said before. I DO think he's on the

Autism Spectrum, but he just doesn't neatly fit into any of the

categories. He seems so darn reasonably and capable at times. Few

people who haven't witnessed a meltdown would ever look at Braden and

think there was a thing wrong with him. He can be very savvy and

charming. He's a real Jekyl/Hyde personality. Alas, I'm not really

worried about it. This psych is going to help us work with him,

regardless of the diagnosis. The diagnosis is just the first step.

We're going to this man because he's a master at helping people teach

these kids how to live in the real world.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Also my dd

> is notorious for getting mad while playing board games and this

> doctor played Candy Land with her....same thing happened, he beat

her

> and she did not react.

>

>

,

This psych did admit (thank God)that this has happened before, so he

isn't giving up by any means. If anything, he seemed thrilled with

the challenge of figuring out what exactly is going on with him.

And, I think that the reason he wants to see the other side of Braden

is because he has to know what is triggering him and what he's

thinking that causes it before he can help us figure out how to help

him to change his behavior. It's not just because he's being a

stickler for the criteria.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/16/03 9:35:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dayton@... writes:

> oooh good one Roxanna

> which leads me to a new concern

> Will Braden trust this dr once he sets him off for no reason other than to

> see his reaction?

> (Quite a think tank we have going here) <g>

> Dawn

>

Well, you are on the same brain wave as I am. If I went to a doc who did

this to me, I would be furious, I would be ticked at my parents royally and I

certainly would not be able to talk to the doc, let alone trust him. I don't

see

what the point to making him mad is...I mean, what will it accomplish? Seems

kind of silly.

Roxanna

ò¿ò

It makes sense to go up the molehill

dressed for the mountain

Nan, the Wiser

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/16/03 10:38:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rwinters@... writes:

> I am not at all

> concerned about this man's methods and if I ever feel that he is

> handling something inappropriately, I will tell him. He is excellent

> and highly respected by parents, teachers and other psychs....and

> ME. He's one of the good guys. At ease, soldiers. <g>

>

I don't usually get bowled over by credentials. I'm sure nobody thinks you

are a bad parent at all. I don't think that. But you have to admit this is

really weird. I'm surprised it makes sense to you but you are the mom and you

should do what you think is best. I just disagree with this and wouldn't do it

myself. But then, I'm not the expert mother of all either. lol. People do

a lot of things I wouldn't do.

I just hope the good doctor has a plan for if/when Braden figures out he's

being played. If it were me, the Sh** would hit the fan when I figured it out

and it wouldn't really take me that long. Braden is being good at the doc's

office like he's supposed to and I think it's really rather ugly to try to alter

that nice path just to see what he look likes when he's angry so one can then

teach him to be good.

Roxanna ôô

What doesn't kill us

Makes us really mean.

[Guest guest]

> Regarding doctor's waffling about dx, was first taken to a

child

> pschiatrist who was the first to suggest AS to me. After a few

sessions,

> he referred me to the hospital's director of division of Child and

> Adolescent Psychiatry who had a few sessions with her and with us

($$$).

> The doctor also played Candy Land with , and deliberately

chose the

> red mover to see if would react since red and pink are her

favorite

> colors. She took it well, but at home she obsessed about it for 20

> minutes or more; " Dr. W. is not my friend, etc., etc. "

>

> In the end, this doctor wouldn't conclude anything but said that

she's

> got behavioral problems and wanted to set up more sessions ($$$)

and have

> the school do an MFE (which took months to achieve and far less than

> thorough). The psychiatrist was the one who diagnosed her AS,

after I

> told him that I belonged to several support groups and was

convinced my

> daughter has AS, the symptoms were so similar. Call me cynical, I

know

> that doctors shouldn't rush to a dx , but I think that parents

immersed

> in support groups like this are the experts on PDD. I guess you

have to

> submit your child to testing and evaluations ($$$) for a reasonable

time,

> but if the doctor is still waffling about a dx, it might be time to

lean

> on him/her a little. Are they really not sure or do they just want

more

> $$$? You could also remind them of your own observations and how it

> compares to DSM and offer to show them videotapes of behaviors at

home.

> Also mention that you're growing concerning about the cost of

multiple

> sessions which I presume aren't completely covered..

>

> Theresa

Theresa,

I understand your anger and frustration, but this is definitely not a

case of the Dr. waffling over a diagnosis. I'm on this board because

of my oldest son who definitely has Asperger Syndrome...and he

verified that quickly in 's case. Braden is a fuzzy case. He

confuses me. I've always said so. There just doesn't seem to be a

neat little category to fit him into, and he is very challenging. He

definitely is not a steriotypical aspie. You don't see it by his

walk or talk or demeanor. It's more complicated for Braden. ly,

I am not surprised by his reaction at all. This Dr. is going to be

working with us and both our sons for as long as it takes, so he

really has no need to delay a diagnosis. He knows that. He's just

trying to figure out how Braden's mind works before he can come up

with a plan of action that will have a shot at working, and Braden so

far is not showing all his cards. That's the problem. So, while

I've done my share of Dr. bashing, I am definitely not bashing this

Dr.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 7/16/03 4:09:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> rwinters@b... writes:

>

> > ly,

> > although I can't explain why, I'm not surprised at all that he

didn't

> > react to the psych's attempts to upset him. It doesn't surprise

me

> > at all. But I am hopeful that if we all gang up on him in the

next

> > session we will be able to get a rise out of him.

> >

>

> I don't understand why he has to upset Braden before he can help

him. What

> is the point to upsetting him artificially and just to see him be

upset?? He's

> old enough that the guy could just ask him about times he is upset,

no?

> Roxanna

> ò¿ò

Aaaahhhhh, therein lies the problem. My perfect son has told him

that he has no problems!! Hahahaha!!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

> Roxanna

>

> oooh good one Roxanna

> which leads me to a new concern

> Will Braden trust this dr once he sets him off for no reason other

than to

> see his reaction?

> (Quite a think tank we have going here) <g>

> Dawn

Dawn,

See my response to Roxanna.

And everyone: I appreciate your concern but nobody and I do mean

NOBODY abuses my kids and gets away with it. You all should know

that about me by now. You've seen me in action. I am not at all

concerned about this man's methods and if I ever feel that he is

handling something inappropriately, I will tell him. He is excellent

and highly respected by parents, teachers and other psychs....and

ME. He's one of the good guys. At ease, soldiers. <g>

Kathy

[Guest guest]

See my response to Roxanna.

And everyone: I appreciate your concern but nobody and I do mean

NOBODY abuses my kids and gets away with it. You all should know

that about me by now. You've seen me in action. I am not at all

concerned about this man's methods and if I ever feel that he is

handling something inappropriately, I will tell him. He is excellent

and highly respected by parents, teachers and other psychs....and

ME. He's one of the good guys.

*****************************

At ease, soldiers. <g>

Kathy

ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kathy - that's very funny.

You know me, I just jump on whatever bandwagon is making it's way

down the street at the time. (kidding) <g>

If you are comfortable with him - that is what is important.

I know you are an excellent Mother and I certainly never meant to imply

otherwise. I know you don't think I implied it either, I am just putting

that out there. *safety net* sometimes things being read don't have the

same jovial tone as when they are written.

We all just like to be on our toes for each other.

Take care,

Dawn