Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 For those who say they get their protein from plants - I'm interested in knowing exactly what this means. Aside from soy and legumes (such as beans) combined with rice, and the recent news I posted about chick peas and hummous (which is made from chick peas), I'm not aware of significant amounts of proteins found in other plants. So just what does " protein " from plants mean, you guys? And pardon my ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 The usda database shows most veggies have on the order of 1 gm per oz. Fruit about .5 gm per oz. If you eat just veggies and fruit, you have to eat a lot of food to get enough energy, especially if low fat. So the protein is surprisingly high overall. Let me point out that lettuce is 31% protein if you don't count the water. How does a cow grow to 1200 # in 2 yrs, just eating grass ( which might be 7% P)? It eats a LOT of grass. And you don't have to eat beans either. I think the mistake that " vegetarians " make is assuming they have to eat soy or other beans to replace the meats they leave out. Sear's basically ignores the P in veggies and it's a little bothersome for me trying to follow his regimen. As I look at my intake today, based on Amino acid RDA's from Sherman's desk reference, I see I'm at more than 200% on essential AA's. Total P is 50gms. If I left out the eggwhite and milk I'd still be over 100% of RDA's for essential AA's except methionine, with total P at 23 gms. My personal choice is to add ffmilk for the Calcium and methionine to increase the essential AA's without adding so much to total P. I could add 8 oz of pinto beans and forgo the milk if I were a vegan. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: T. Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...> < egroups> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 7:59 AM Subject: [ ] Re: plant protein > For those who say they get their protein from plants - I'm interested in > knowing exactly what this means. Aside from soy and legumes (such as beans) > combined with rice, and the recent news I posted about chick peas and > hummous (which is made from chick peas), I'm not aware of significant > amounts of proteins found in other plants. So just what does " protein " from > plants mean, you guys? > And pardon my ignorance. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2001 Report Share Posted January 9, 2001 JW wrote: The usda database shows most veggies have on the order of 1 gm per oz. Fruit about .5 gm per oz. If you eat just veggies and fruit, you have to eat a lot of food to get enough energy, especially if low fat. So the protein is surprisingly high overall. Let me point out that lettuce is 31% protein if you don't count the water. How does a cow grow to 1200 # in 2 yrs, just eating grass ( which might be 7% P)? It eats a LOT of grass. And you don't have to eat beans either. I think the mistake that " vegetarians " make is assuming they have to eat soy or other beans to replace the meats they leave out. Sear's basically ignores the P in veggies and it's a little bothersome for me trying to follow his regimen. As I look at my intake today, based on Amino acid RDA's from Sherman's desk reference, I see I'm at more than 200% on essential AA's. Total P is 50gms. If I left out the eggwhite and milk I'd still be over 100% of RDA's for essential AA's except methionine, with total P at 23 gms. My personal choice is to add ffmilk for the Calcium and methionine to increase the essential AA's without adding so much to total P. I could add 8 oz of pinto beans and forgo the milk if I were a vegan. Francesca, My experience is similar to JW's. If you enter a day's worth of meals in DWIP, try leaving out any major animal source of protein but include at least 6 servings of vegetables, 3 serving of fruit, 2 - 3 cups of any grain and 1 - 2 Cups of any legume (peas, beans, lentils, etc). When you bring up the nutritional analysis, you might be surprised to see how much protein is totaled and the high quality (100% of each essential amino acid). Remember that the amino acids in animal protein came originally from plants: it was just re-arranged into muscle tissue. It is easy to supplement this amount with soymilk, tofu, etc if you are trying for a relatively high level of protein as on the zone diet. For levels of protein found in the Ornish/Biosphere diet, you really don't need to even use soy or animal protein. S Pollock Some vegetables are surprisingly high in protein like broccoli but overall the total and high quality of a day's vegetable protein intake kind of sneaks up on you because it is so well distributed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 JW wrote: Calcium is avail in plants as well as milk, but I do use ffmilk for Calcium. You may have noticed there's a constant argument whether Ca is absorbed from milk or plants. Studies I've read indicate 20% for milk/cheese, and 17% for greens. I take some extra Ca. I can't find where osteo is caused by lack of ingestion of Ca at the levels we usually get. It's a parathyroid hormone thing. JW, Don't forget that there are low oxylate greens like kale and mustard greens (and probably other wild ones) that have calcium absorbed at rates of 50 - 60%. See the work of Connie Weaver at Perdue University. Most of her work is published in the Am J of Clin Nutr. S Pollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Francesca wrote: This is very interesting, especially since non-animal sources are usually much lower in calories. However Walford does recommend higher amounts of protein, it seems from animal sources (fish, egg whites, FF yogurt etc) in T120Y Diet; or at least the meals he lists as examples do. Aren't there important nutrients non-animal sources are missing such as B-12, omegas (in fish) etc? Isn't it much more difficult for us " lazy " people to balance our diets without animal protein. Remember Warren 's posts about osteo? Comments? Francesca, You are probably right in suggesting that " lazy " people might have trouble with a vegan diet because it is quite far from the mainstream AL diet that most of us grew up on. Eating vegan does require a serious committment to eating vegetables, fruits, nuts and reasonable amounts of grains and beans. Simply taking a " salad & pasta " approach as some teenage vegan girls do will lead to trouble with many nutrients that are usually gotten from meat and dairy. Consuming a lot of empty calories from pastries and candy could also be pretty problematic. Someone with a committment to CR, however, is probably in a better position esp if they are using a dietary database like DWIP to evalute their diet. In that case the nutrients in a vegan diet are laid out quite clearly and adjustments can be made just as with an omnivore diet. Vit B-12 used to be widely available (it is a bacteria) to all humans until sterile food preparation sharply limited it. It is available from animals only because they eat dirty plants that are rich in B-12. Vegans either get B-12 from a Mult-V or from nutritional yeast. I have done previous posts about the availability of protein and calcium in a well constructed vegan diet. I think, that, as the split between the two Walfords possibly demonstrates, CR can be done omnivore or vegan and IMO the difference has a lot to with taste buds. Of course, as a vegan, I will say that I believe that this diet offers the best protection against chronic disease like cardio-vascular and cancer esp if you are trying to heal and recover from either. When you see comments on either list that question the validity of a vegan diet I suggest that you assume that they are talking about a poorly constructed vegan diet. This is Rae's postion, i.e. he has indicated in his posts that a vegan diet must be well constructed. Of course, IMO this is equally true of an omivore CR diet. From what I am learning on these lists, once you go to 1800 c or less, you really do have to know what you are doing. S Pollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 --- " S. Pollock " <ds.pollock@...> wrote: > Francesca, > You are probably right in suggesting that " lazy " > people might have > trouble with a vegan diet because it is quite far > from the mainstream AL > diet that most of us grew up on. Eating vegan does > require a serious > committment to eating vegetables, fruits, nuts and > reasonable amounts of > grains and beans. Simply taking a " salad & pasta " > approach as some teenage > vegan girls do will lead to trouble with many > nutrients that are usually > gotten from meat and dairy. Consuming a lot of empty > calories from pastries > and candy could also be pretty problematic. > Someone with a committment to CR, however, is > probably in a better > position esp if they are using a dietary database > like DWIP to evalute their > diet. In that case the nutrients in a vegan diet are > laid out quite clearly > and adjustments can be made just as with an omnivore > diet. Vit B-12 used to > be widely available (it is a bacteria) to all humans > until sterile food > preparation sharply limited it. It is available from > animals only because > they eat dirty plants that are rich in B-12. Vegans > either get B-12 from a > Mult-V or from nutritional yeast. I have done > previous posts about the > availability of protein and calcium in a well > constructed vegan diet. > I think, that, as the split between the two > Walfords possibly > demonstrates, CR can be done omnivore or vegan and > IMO the difference has a > lot to with taste buds. Of course, as a vegan, I > will say that I believe > that this diet offers the best protection against > chronic disease like > cardio-vascular and cancer esp if you are trying to > heal and recover from > either. > When you see comments on either list that > question the validity of a > vegan diet I suggest that you assume that they are > talking about a poorly > constructed vegan diet. This is Rae's > postion, i.e. he has indicated > in his posts that a vegan diet must be well > constructed. Of course, IMO this > is equally true of an omivore CR diet. From what I > am learning on these > lists, once you go to 1800 c or less, you really do > have to know what you > are doing. > S Pollock > I have been toying with a vegan diet for the last year or so. I have ear problems, which I believe are related to sinus problems. I have dropped milk products. Most grains are high in calories in relation to their protein and other nutrient values. Wheat germ has the highest protein and nutrient values for a grain. According to " Diet for a Small Planet, " wheat germ has a higher protein usability than soybeans. I eat wheat germ as a primary protein and few other grain products. I eat it with a vegetable and salsa. Soybeans are a mainstay for vegan diets. The questions raised on this list about soybeans, however, make me a little wary of them. I still eat soybeans every day as a primary protein. I make soybean chili. One of the amino acids in soybeans that is unbalanced on the high side is glutamic acid. This appears to be convertible in the body to glutamine. Glutamine has health benefits, and is not just burned as an unusable AA. Brewer's yeast is a third vegan product that is high in protein (for a vegetable product) and low in calories. I eat brewer's yeast every day as a primary protein. I mix it with ground flax seed in tomato juice. Brewer's yeast, like soybeans, is unbalanced high with glutamic acid. I try to get at least 100 grams of vegan proteins a day from the above three sources. This costs less than 1200 calories. Taking into consideration the lower quality of the protein, I believe this assures me 60 grams of quality protein. This meets the Walford recommendations for a 150 pound body. Occasionally, I supplement with omega 3 fish. I don't even count the protein from other vegetable sources. I take B12 and Calcium supplements. I have never noticed any fingernail or hair problems. I seem to have pretty good endurance, but I don't run 5 miles to test it. I haven't broken any bones, lately. My ear problem (tinnitus) may be somewhat relieved. Wideman __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2001 Report Share Posted January 12, 2001 wrote: I try to get at least 100 grams of vegan proteins a day from the above three sources. This costs less than 1200 calories. Taking into consideration the lower quality of the protein, I believe this assures me 60 grams of quality protein. This meets the Walford recommendations for a 150 pound body. Occasionally, I supplement with omega 3 fish. I don't even count the protein from other vegetable sources. I take B12 and Calcium supplements. I have never noticed any fingernail or hair problems. I seem to have pretty good endurance, but I don't run 5 miles to test it. I haven't broken any bones, lately. My ear problem (tinnitus) may be somewhat relieved. Wideman I hope dropping dairy does help with your tinnitus. I do think that you could probably be more relaxed about your protein intake. What is your daily calorie intake? Are you eating at least 6 servings of veg/day? My guess, based only on what you have mentioned, is that you may be getting over 90 g of quality protein since soy and wheat protein complement nicely. You can download a free test copy of DWIP from Walford's site and enter a days food intake to analyse you amino acid breakdown. The latest estimate I have read for vegan protein intake is .09 g of protein for ea 1.0 kg of body weight unless you are exercising strenuously or eating a very, very low calorie diet. The .09g figure allows for lower absorption of protein (compared to an omivore diet) due to fibre, phytates, etc. S Pollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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