Re: Response to Sleep Posts

[Guest guest]

Mambo and Francesca,

I hope you don't mind, but I wanted to respond to this post.

I appreciate the concern voiced. Some of the sleep aids (pills) out there

do interfere with quality sleep. I should know because I have struggled,

sometimes quite seriously, with sleep for 4 years. I have read everything

that I could get my hands on concerning sleep, how to improve it and how to

work through different problems: ie. possible causes. Virtually all of the

sleeping pills available out there by perscription do interfere in one way

or another with sleep quality. Some ruin deep Delta sleep, and many of

them interfere with REM.

A few comments:

->Some tryciclics, taken in low doses help with a sleep problem called

Delta interference (tis known by other names as well.) When a person has

this type of problem, they have waking brain waves intrude into their sleep

patterns. As a result, they are literally, in a way, both awake and

asleep at the same time. This type of sleep problem causes extremely

unrefreshing sleep. Melatonin may help with getting to sleep, but from what

I have read, it doesn't help as much with this type of problem. Low doses

of some tryciclics do however help, and the pill causes the brain waves to

move much more into the normal ranges.

-> Some people struggle with getting to sleep in the first place.

Melatonin can help with this, as do most of the other perscription drugs.

Unfortunately, those drugs (not melatonin), as mentioned above, do

interfere with REM sleep, and many have groggy the next day effects as

well.

-> Some people struggle with staying asleep during the early morning hours.

This, more often then not, is a result of depression which does clinically

manifest itself in many by causing them to awake early in the morning and

not be able to return to sleep. Treating the depression often helps, but

unfortunately, many of the SSRI perscription drugs interfere with the

melatonin cycles in a body and cause a different kind of sleep disorder,

even though they might be correcting (masking) the symptoms of depression

in the first place.

There are books and books about this kind of stuff. I got cought up in the

depression cycle years ago, with anxiety attached to it, and though I felt

better taking a SSRI, my sleep went to hell. It has taken some time to get

back to where I have some control and stability over it.

I have found that melatonin alone doesn't work sufficiently for me,

regardless of the dose. I have found, however, that a small dose of

Remeron, taken on an empty stomach, can help. This new drug isn't a strict

SSRI, but is a Seratonin, Dopamine, and Noreaddrenaline reuptake inhibitor,

and taken in larger doses,can increase alertness, but it also stabolizes

the sleep patterns. The doses that have a sleep effect are very small.

When taken in small doses, this one enhances and stabolizes the sleep

patterns. It does not destroy REM, nor does it have overtly bad effect on

Delta sleep. I believe there are drawbacks though: I feel sleepy the next

day and through most of the day, and this is, after all, a drug aided sleep

which isn't the best choice. Also, this drug is newer, and many of the

long term effects for use as a sleep aid aren't known. It is not the

perfect sleep aid, but it is a choice that some of us have made because it

is the best choice we could make when faced with all of the alternatives.

What do I use to sleep: I take melatonin, a small Remeron, and valarian.

This for me is a relatively effective combination. However, after long

term use, valarian looses its effect with me, and I have to go off of it

for a small time, and then my sleep tends to go to hell again. But, I have

read a lot of stuff, and Remeron, from what I have read, is one of the best

choices I could make at the time. If the time comes when melatonin alone

works, then I will immediately make the change.

Fortunately, when Xyrem comes on the market, that will replace Remeron for

me. I will cut out the valarian and Remeron, and work with my schedule to

enhance my sleep. Then, I will have a cutoff mark on the clock, which, if

reached and not sleeping, will use Xyrem to get the sleep I need. So, say

2:00 AM rolls around and I am still tossing and turning; then, I will take

a dose of Xyrem, and sleep will happen.

Note: There is so much controversy about GHB out there. I won't in any

way suggest that any of you use or not use Xyrem. You must, if you are to

make your own decisions, do some of your own reading and research. I have

looked at both sides of the issues concerning GHB (Xyrem will be its trade

name), and I am comfortable with my plans. I fully intend, and thank God

for this, that come the middle of next year, I will put the last nail in

the coffin of this damn sleep problem, and then all of this hard work will

pay off.

A.

" Mambo Mambo "

<mambomambo@ho

egroups

tmail.com> cc:

Subject: Re:

[ ] Digest

12/13/00 08:56 Number 51

AM

Please respond

to

CRsocietysuppo

rtgroup

Francesca

I am concerned by your post saying you are taking a prescription sleep aid.

Most of these tend to diminish the quality of sleep, ie, the deep REM

sleep. This is very important for GH release and many other benefits.

Melatonin increases this very phase of the sleep cycle and is thought to

raise GH as a consequence. Melatonin is non addictive and a potent

antioxidant.

Perhaps it is worth a try?

MM

PS I've been taking sublinqual M for the last 4 years mainly for its

antioxidant and Gh boost. Once I forgot it when travelling, but didn't

notice it at all in the quality and length of sleeping. The sublingual form

is more accurate in dosage as it seems that many of the other forms are not

completely absorbed via the stomach.

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