Re: mmr question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/22/2000 4:21:27 PM Central Standard Time,

medbill@... writes:

<< Is the mmr a live vaccine? If so do I need to be cautious with

being around recently vaxed kids and how long? >>

yes. And yes. for about 6 weeks. Depending on 's age. It may be

that this will be the only way to expose him (if you wish him to acquire

immunity naturally). My son had measles at 1yo and did fine. But I wouldn't

have chosen to expose him until he was 2.

[Guest guest]

MMR http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/mmr.html

Measles http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/measles.html

www.whale.to

MMR Question

From: " Ruthie Bear " <ruth@...>

Can someone help me with a piece of information please? I am writing a

letter to a national baby mag that has a strong article about the benefits of

having the MMR jab and how it can save our babies and childrens lives. As I

understand it, uptake in USA is pretty high, but do you still have epidemics

amongst vaccinated children? I want to include in my letter some shocking

information that most people would not know but I want it based on studies as

it seems that if you don't do that then most 'normal' people think you are an

extremist and a bit nuts!!

If anyone can help I would be most grateful,

Thanks,

Ruth Acaster

(Brighton, UK)

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[Guest guest]

At 08:07 PM 09/20/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>

>On one of the recent post I read there are 8 new wild types of measles

>strains out there. Does this mean even if my husband and I opt to get the

>vaccine he would not be protected against these? Is this the only disease

>which has mutated? I also read here back in the 80's the measles epidemic

>had something like 55,000 people infected, does anyone know how many were

>fully vaccinated individuals? In the MMR what is my son protected against?

>

, there is no guarantee your son is protected against anything. You

sound like you think the vaccine works.

Nature abhors a vacuum and we are seeing diseases continuing and new ones

taking their place

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

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[Guest guest]

As I have stated before, I do think vaccines work. Not entirely and not

100%, but I do think they are effective. I also understand the consequences

we are not paying for with these emerging killers. Which is exactly why I am

considering this particular vaccine. From what I have been reading, this is

not a common childhood disease anymore ( in terms of the intensity). I also

am going to the OB tomorrow and I will have her do a titer test on me for

MMR. I am fairly certain if I get this disease there will be big problems.

We have shot ourselves in the foot, I am now paying for my mothers lack of

understanding about diseases. But chancing my son being here without me is

not an option.

Do you know the detailed answer to my question?

Thank you

[Guest guest]

>As I have stated before, I do think vaccines work. Not entirely and not

>100%, but I do think they are effective. I also understand the consequences

>we are not paying for with these emerging killers. Which is exactly why I am

>considering this particular vaccine. From what I have been reading, this is

>not a common childhood disease anymore ( in terms of the intensity). I also

>am going to the OB tomorrow and I will have her do a titer test on me for

>MMR. I am fairly certain if I get this disease there will be big problems.

>

>

>We have shot ourselves in the foot, I am now paying for my mothers lack of

>understanding about diseases. But chancing my son being here without me is

>not an option.

>

>

>Do you know the detailed answer to my question?

>

>Thank you

>

I don't know the answer to your question at present but will try to find

out.

But this is VERY serious here from what I have learned recently from F.

Yazbak, MD who I have been in touch with personally for months and

also heard him share his research at the NVIC conference and spent a lot of

time with him.

He has been doing research with mothers who got MMR or Rubella vaccine and

is seeing serious associations with autism and their children. Especially

if you are planning to have future children it is very possibly a serious

setup for you and your child.

He saw over and over what looks to be a connection with the mom getting MMR

(sometimes over and over because no titers). He is adamant that no titers

or low titers doesn't mean that vaccine 'didn't take' or that the mom isn't

immune necessarily - but it is showing a problem with the mom and her

immunity in general. His thesis is that the mom getting the mmr and then

passing antibodies on to next pregnancy or current breast feeding child or

EVEN a child in the house not being breastfed (not sure how) is a huge set

up - especially when that child then gets THEIR MMR. Over and over he sees

those children becoming autistic.

One part of the setup is families with history's of immune system problems

in the family - diabetes, allergies, asthma, arthritis, miscarriages, add,

adhd, learning problems, ms, lupus, and on and on.

Here is where some of his information is - of course this is not proof but

evidence of association - serious evidence...

Read Dr. Yazbak’s articles regarding these mothers he has worked

with...(there are even more than these - I think he has worked with at

least 300 now, seeing the same thing over and over)

Autism : Is there a vaccine connection? Part I

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/autism99b.htm

Autism : Is There a Vaccine Connection? Part II

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/autism99b2.htm

Autism : Is There a Vaccine Connection? Part III

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/autism99b3.htm

Autism 99 -- A National Emergency

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/autism_99.htm

>

>

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/22/00 2:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

tomnrachel@... writes:

<< I understand the vaccine is

not 100% effective but has proven to be better then nothing. >>

rachel,

where did you get the info that it has been proven to be better than nothing?

and why would it be such bad news for you or your child to contract measles,

mumps or rubella--do you suffer from any conditions that would make for

serious complications?

brigit

[Guest guest]

I am not considering this vaccine for myself. I am getting the titer test

done to check. This will play a role in the decision I will make for my son.

What I meant was if I am not immune and my son gets it I am sure to get it

and the problems would certainly be bad news. I understand the vaccine is

not 100% effective but has proven to be better then nothing. This disease is

caught airborne.

Thank you

[Guest guest]

,

Were you able to check out any of the back issues of Mothering?

There are many ways to naturally relieve the symptoms of the illnesses. And

if you keep yourself in top health (includes not compromising your system

with the immunizations), your symptoms are far less and your recovery is far

quicker and easier.

Also, consider your child's chances of being exposed. When my sister was

little, she developed scarlet fever (She also went through menengitis, blood

poisoning and some other nasty ones. Yet she never got the flu or even the

common cold! I guess she saved up for the big ones:)!). When she went to the

doctors, he called all of his fellow doctors to come look at her because

none of them had ever seen a case in real life, just pictures in books.

Many of these illnesses are becoming like this. It would almost be difficult

to find a case to expose your child to!

Being unimmunized also put us on the alert list. When my son was attending

public school, I had to sign papers stating that if any cases of any of the

illnesses on the vax list were reported, I would immediately be contacted

and would have to pull my son out of the school until it had all passed (I

believe it stated that if there were an outbreak, I would have to immunize

before returning him to school). The nurse said it was just a formality,

that in all the years she had been there, she had never seen it happen.

Katrina

>From: " Tom and Muckerheide " <tomnrachel@...>

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

><Vaccinationsegroups>

>Subject: RE: MMR question

>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:55:17 -0400

>

>I am not considering this vaccine for myself. I am getting the titer test

>done to check. This will play a role in the decision I will make for my

>son.

>What I meant was if I am not immune and my son gets it I am sure to get it

>and the problems would certainly be bad news. I understand the vaccine is

>not 100% effective but has proven to be better then nothing. This disease

>is

>caught airborne.

>

>Thank you

>

>

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[Guest guest]

> What I meant was if I am not immune and my son gets

> it I am sure to get it

> and the problems would certainly be bad news.

These are some pretty big assumptions - that #1 your

son WILL get measles, #2 that then you WILL get

measles, and #3 that it would create major problems

for you. Yes, the disease is usually harder for

adults than kids, but in the vast majority of cases

that just means you'll feel miserable for a couple

weeks. Personally, I'd rather take the chance of

being miserable and then having it over with than

giving my child the vax. The measles disease itself

does not scare me, for myself, my child, or my

husband. You seem to be terrified of it, and I would

guess that would lead you to make a different decision

than me. I don't think anyone can honestly assure you

that all will be well, whichever direction you choose.

Life is dangerous.

I

> understand the vaccine is

> not 100% effective but has proven to be better then

> nothing. This disease is

> caught airborne.

I don't agree that it's better than nothing. Measles

mortality had gone down to almost nothing before the

vaccine was introduced. Yes, people still got the

disease, but they didn't die from it, in places where

there was adequate public sanitation and the knowledge

of how to care for the sick person. It was like

chicken pox, a routine childhood disease. I believe

the vaccine is contributing to the true epidemic of

auto-immune disease, and I would much rather deal with

an episode of a usually harmless disease that leaves

behind permanent immunity than a lifetime of a damaged

immune system.

Hard decision, but I think you're making it harder on

yourself by assuming dire consequences.

Aubin

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

You seem to be second guessing yourself over every single thing. It is as if

your gut is telling you one thing (vaccination BAAAAAD) and science is

telling you another (vaccination GOOOOD) and you are feeling torn.

I can give you my experience. When my son was born 8 years ago (*gasp* 8

years!) I made the decision to not vaccinate. I considered waiting until he

was older and could better handle the effects of the vaccine (my knowlege at

the time), but had pretty much made my decision to not vax at all. I began

researching every piece of info I could get my hands on. I ordered every

book, checked out every book from every library in 3 counties/2 states, went

to listen to debates and lectures given by doctors, talked to everybody I

knew who had not vaccinated and to those who HAD vaccinated and suffered bad

reactions..... I gathered all the info I could. At the time (9 years now,

including the pregnancy), the emphasis was on the dangers of vaccine

reactions. I second guessed myself everyday. I was so sure that MY SON was

going to be THE ONE with the reaction. I could not have lived with myself if

I had done that to him. It was such a hard decision at the time for me.

Although my mother didn't quite agree with me (she seems to have done quite

a bit of learning since), she made comments that she was so glad we were all

older, she was so glad to not have any young children in this position

because there was just so much more information than when we were little

that made parenting decisions so much harder. She would never want to have

to make that decision again. I worried every day that I had made the right

decision.

As my children grew and began passing the ages that doctors claim are more

dangerous times to contract many of these illnesses, I relaxed. A lot. But

as I learn more an more...and more...about vaccinations and everything that

goes along with them, I can't help but thank god that I did not vaccinate

them. Yes, my original reasons still stand true, but there is so much more

that I know about now. I never get that feeling anymore that IF there were

an outbreak, I might consider getting them the shots. I never question my

decision anymore. And yes, we have had many exposures to many illnesses. No

sickness yet:)!

I am very greatful to have found this list. I trust the people here and feel

that they really know their shtuff. It becomes easier to pick out the

sensationalized stories from the ones with hard facts. After awhile, you

will read articles and notice that the numbers or facts don't jibe with what

another article states. Red flag goes up and you know to find more sources

before you take them for their word.

I hope I have made at least a bit of sense here. I just feel that you are

exactly where I was back then and wanted to give you some support. It takes

a lot to trust yourself, especially when your decisions affect others close

to you.

Keep learning!

(Now if only I can work up the courage to stand up to the doctors for what I

know to be good and true:)!)

Katrina (still having trouble spelling my name!)

>From: " Tom and Muckerheide " <tomnrachel@...>

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

><Vaccinationsegroups>

>Subject: RE: MMR question

>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:55:17 -0400

>

>I am not considering this vaccine for myself. I am getting the titer test

>done to check. This will play a role in the decision I will make for my

>son.

>What I meant was if I am not immune and my son gets it I am sure to get it

>and the problems would certainly be bad news. I understand the vaccine is

>not 100% effective but has proven to be better then nothing. This disease

>is

>caught airborne.

>

>Thank you

>

>

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/22/00 12:00:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

aubinparrish@... writes:

<< The measles disease itself

does not scare me, for myself, my child, or my

husband. You seem to be terrified of it, and I would

guess that would lead you to make a different decision

than me. >>

I know there is someone on this list who had measles as an adult,and she

suffered damage to various organs if I remember correctly. I myself may have

titers drawn,but I suppose it really does not matter what they would show

since I have enough problems as a result of the hepB shot to even dare the

MMR.My dh did get the MMR in the fall of 98' per immigration mandates(not

quite right since then),and I HOPE he could handle dd if she gets the measles

or anything else if I am unable to care for her. I have no doubt Nimet will

be exposed to various things on our trips to Turkey.

Regardless of whether or not you decide to get yourself or your child

vaccinated you should be prepared to deal with the various diseases as there

is always the slim possiblility of contracting them either way you go.

And I to have read accounts that VPD/VFD have developed more aggressive

strains,but just via heresay.Makes sense though-survival of the fittest even

in viruses.

[Guest guest]

Katrina that was good advice, thank you for sharing.

My husband was not vaccinated as a child and was very healthy his whole life until he decided to join the Navy. While there he was vaccinated, inoculated and poisoned (in my opinion), he has had allergy problems and other health problems since all those vaccines were given him.

On the other hand I was vaccinated as a child. I had the MMR, I got measles, I got mumps (on one side), I don't remember having chickenpox even though I've been exposed numerous times. Perhaps I have natural immunity? Anyway, I've been sick my whole life, with all kinds of problems; tumors, allergies, growths....etc... I'm not saying I can blame it all on the vaccines, but it does make a person wonder.

Annette

"Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience." -- Locke, 1690

-----Original Message-----From: Katrina Cloud [mailto:katrinaj@...],I gathered all the info I could. At the time (9 years now, including the pregnancy), the emphasis was on the dangers of vaccine reactions. I second guessed myself everyday. I was so sure that MY SON was going to be THE ONE with the reaction. I could not have lived with myself if I had done that to him. It was such a hard decision at the time for me. Although my mother didn't quite agree with me (she seems to have done quite a bit of learning since), she made comments that she was so glad we were all older, she was so glad to not have any young children in this position because there was just so much more information than when we were little that made parenting decisions so much harder. She would never want to have to make that decision again. I worried every day that I had made the right decision.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/23/00 2:27:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

tomnrachel@... writes:

<< A large number of vaxed children get the disease as well,

unfortunately there are no concrete % when an outbreak happens. If a child

has never had chicken pox before their odds of getting it are extremely

high. As I have stated before if an unvaxed child's immune system is so

strong, then why do they contract this disease, the majority of the time? >>

i don't know that i agree with this. for example, i myself was exposed many,

many times as a child and young adult to chicken pox (there are 7 kids in my

family and only 2 of us had CP when we were little), then when i was 34, i

got CP after taking care of my, then 5 year old who came down with them--at

the time i was physically run down and wasn't eating very well, so i

attribute some of that as to why i finally succumbed to them. but i was

never vaxed for them and was repeatedly exposed (even twice during the

pregnancy of the same child who i eventually got them from) to them

throughout my entire lifetime. so i don't know if you can say that their

odds of contracting it are extremely high--my situation doesn't support that

theory...

brigit

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/23/00 2:41:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

tomnrachel@... writes:

<< and the MMR offered not even a

little help then it would not be worth it to me >>

actually, there are many instances where the people who do contract measles

have been vaccinated for them and still come down witht them, so...something

else to consider--no guarantee, and that's if you believe they work in the

first place (which i personally don't believe). rachel, i must have missed

your original question, could you repeat it--i don't know if i can find you

an answer, but i could try.

brigit

[Guest guest]

I have an autoimmune disease of the thyroid so far that is it, and that is

still not perfect. The reason for my question in the first place is all of

the talk about vaccines being started years ago and not the childhood

diseases when they do come and measles does come every 3 to 4 years as does

pertussis that they are coming stronger and secondary complications are

quite common. I believe vaccines do work to a certain extent, if there is a

measles outbreak or pertussis in an omish community, for example 90% of them

will contract the disease. I do not want to go the rounds on the efficiency

of vaccines. A large number of vaxced children get the disease as well,

unfortunately there are no concrete % when an outbreak happens. If a child

has never had chicken pox before their odds of getting it are extremely

high. As I have stated before if an unvaxed child's immune system is so

strong, then why do they contract this disease, the majority of the time?

Now they are making this vaccine mandatory, it should only be a short time

before that disease if contracted , hits you like a ton of bricks.

So I hope that answers your question, I am still waiting for an answer to my

original question.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I know life is dangerous. What does that have to do with any of this?

Nothing... And yes I have stated many times I am scared of pertussis and

the measles. This has been a difficult decision for me and never having

these diseases or seeing anyone who has leaves a lot to the imagination. As

I am sure you know these 2 particular diseases do come in epidemics every 3

to 4 years whether it hits 3 or 55,000. If I feel from the information I

have read or elderly people in my church whom I have asked about theses

diseases and they tell me there were bad news. Or there are 8 new wild

measles strains that are bad news or I hear on the news the rare condition

SSPE has been seen in children who contracted the disease and were never

immunized, then I am going to start weighing the odds. I want to know the

answer to my question which no one has an answer for. Obviously if I found

out that the new strains were out there and the MMR offered not even a

little help then it would not be worth it to me. I live a balanced life I do

not do things in extremes. And my way, whatever way I choose is not better

than yours. And I am happy for you and your family if that you are

completely comfortable getting these diseases. I would never want to see my

son through and secondary complications and have to be hospitalized for

anything ever. So while the decision is mine for the next 18 yrs. I am going

to make a well informed balanced decision. If you get any information

pertaining to my original question, please email back I am very interested

to know.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much, finally someone who can understand where I am at. Yes

this is me, exactly where you were for how many years? To many I am sure.

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

My original question was something like this. In the eighties there was an

outbreak of measles, something like 55,000. How many were fully vaxed

individuals? And the second part of my question was if I opt to do the MMR,

how many strains of measles are there? And what strains will my son be

protected against? I read about 8 new wild measles viruses.

Chickenpox though it must have been an irritant to have does not have the

secondary complications the English measles has not rubella.

[Guest guest]

,

It seems that we can not answer your question the way you want. Why not

file a Freedom Of Information Act request with the CDC? It is very

simple. All you do is right to the agency with one or two questions.

Say under the Freedom of Information Act I would like to know....? If

they have to photocopy all sorts of stuff then there is a charge but if

you ask very pointed questions then they will simply type back the

response.

Personally, I don't think they know exactly how many strains and often

things are misdiagnosed, definitions of diseases are changed, epidemic

numbers are changed,etc. Your asking us to give you a concrete answer

for something that the gov't keeps changing. What books have you read,

by the way?

in CT

Tom and Muckerheide wrote:

>

>

> My original question was something like this. In the eighties there was an

> outbreak of measles, something like 55,000. How many were fully vaxed

> individuals? And the second part of my question was if I opt to do the MMR,

> how many strains of measles are there? And what strains will my son be

> protected against? I read about 8 new wild measles viruses.

>

> Chickenpox though it must have been an irritant to have does not have the

> secondary complications the English measles has not rubella.

>

>

--

@...

***************************************************************

Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical

OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you

implement that decision is yours and yours alone.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/23/00 5:48:05 PM Central Daylight Time,

tomnrachel@... writes:

<< My original question was something like this. In the eighties there was an

outbreak of measles, something like 55,000. How many were fully vaxed

individuals? And the second part of my question was if I opt to do the MMR,

how many strains of measles are there? And what strains will my son be

protected against? I read about 8 new wild measles viruses.

>>

the majority of individuals in the early 80s outbreak were adults... I was

one of them. Most of us were " fully " vaccinated... however, you need to

remember, our generation was vac'd in the 60s when only one shot was given,

and almost no one was told to get boosters upon adulthood. We received only

the measles vaccine (the MMR wasn't around back then), and you only got one

shot, there was no " series " . I was 23 when I contracted measles.

As for strains? I guess someone else can address that... I've only ever

heard of 2 - the wild version, and the mutated version caused by the vaccine

- which is what most of us are dealing with now, and what my kids got. It's

possible that the virus has mutated several times, I guess, but I would think

it would be like the flu strains. You would still retain immunity for that

strain or family.

[Guest guest]

Hi , It's me again.

I have been thinking a lot about you and wanted to add a few things to what

I wrote earlier.

You asked how long it took me to find comfort in my decisions. It was not

something that I could place my finger on. When my son was two years and two

months old, my daughter was born. By that time I had gathered enough info

that I was VERY sure in my convictions. It took me quite a while longer

though to have the courage to stand up to the doctors. THAT one, I am still

working on.

I also wanted to say that when I first decided to not vax, I had a large

group of family and a number of friends who were just appalled. I got

everything from " What, don't you love your child?!? " to " You are such a

neglectful parent " and everything in between. I was looked at as some sort

of weirdo hippie freak (or from some of my older, more reserved family, " She

must be into witchcraft, using all of those herbs and whatnot " !) My main

push to gather info came from trying to defend myself to these people. I

started reading and learning and memorizing so that I could hold up my end

of a debate. I became obsessed with making sure that I had quotes and

statistics and names and percentages and anything else you could think of,

all correct and with sources to back it all up with. I would not allow

myself to be caught in a situation where they might be able to stump me. I

was terrified of facing the doctor, fearing that I would get in trouble. I

wanted to have facts to challenge his challenges.

Through all of this, my findings started to rub off on me. In trying to

convince everyone else, I ended up convincing myself. I began to truly

understand what I was reading. And it made sense. A lot of sense.

All of the nitty gritty knowledge has left me (with three kids now, I can

hardly remember to screw my head on before I get up in the morning!) as soon

as I got what I needed from it, that my decision was correct and my beliefs

are firm.

One more thing to add. In one of your posts, you mention the Amish. I don't

know a great deal about the way of life for them but I twice in my life

lived near rather large Amish communities. What I gathered from them is that

they rarely, if at all, use medical intervention. To my knowledge, they use

comfort measures but do not use things such as homeopathy or herbals.

Perhaps someone else here can give more info on this or correct me. But this

may somewhat play into the numbers that you have seen about Amish community

outbreaks. I still think it is very rare to see any real damages or deaths

from these illnesses in these communities. And if there were, you can be

assured that it would have been blown way out of proportion. Movies and

books about this sort of thing are big sellers:)!

We have been involved with a number of Waldorf schools over time and it is

generally more accepted to not vax in this community as well. You often hear

them mentioned when statistics come up. Roudolf Steiner wrote quite a bit on

the spiritual growth of a child during and after these childhood diseases

and of the body's ability to heal. I have known of some " outbreaks " of

pertussis and of measels but I have yet to hear of anyone suffering lasting

effects or dying from them. And it is never the whole school that catches

it, but some children (and it usually, if not always, comes from someone who

was vaxed). I am sorry I do not have any hard facts for you but this is what

I know from experience.

You also mention that other people are comfortable with letting their

children suffer or be hospitalized from these diseases. I think I can pretty

fairly say that not one of us would ever be " comfortable " with watching our

child suffer. I think that most people here have a very strong faith in the

body's natural ability to heal and to fight off illness and infection in

it's healthy state. Most here have a strong knowledge in alternative

healthcare that would help them through an illness and lessen the effects.

No one *wants* to see their child suffer which is also one of the reasons

they choose not to harm their child with vaxes. (I am sorry to anyone here

if I am out of line making these statements)

I hope that you can come to some sort of peace with this. I know this must

be a struggle for you. You have come to the right place to build up your

knowledge though! Good luck!

Katrina

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[Guest guest]

--- Katrina Cloud <katrinaj@...> wrote:

>

> You also mention that other people are comfortable

> with letting their

> children suffer or be hospitalized from these

> diseases. I think I can pretty

> fairly say that not one of us would ever be

> " comfortable " with watching our

> child suffer. I think that most people here have a

> very strong faith in the

> body's natural ability to heal and to fight off

> illness and infection in

> it's healthy state. Most here have a strong

> knowledge in alternative

> healthcare that would help them through an illness

> and lessen the effects.

> No one *wants* to see their child suffer which is

> also one of the reasons

> they choose not to harm their child with vaxes. (I

> am sorry to anyone here

> if I am out of line making these statements)

Thanks for saying that, my thoughts exactly. I hope I

didn't imply that I want my child to " suffer " , of

course I don't! I just have more faith in his healthy

body to recover from challenges than I have in vax to

" protect " him.

Aubin

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I also was vaxed for measles and got measles as a child.

[Guest guest]

I also contracted measles, but I was pretty young around 7 or 8 I think. My two sisters got it also. We were all vaccinated. I've read that vaccinated populations normally have a higher incident of the disease than non-vac'd, in general. My son is three, we have no intention of vaccinating him for anything. From all the information I've read, vaccines are very dangerous.

Annette

From: cpeter8743@... [mailto:cpeter8743@...]tomnrachel@... writes:<< My original question was something like this. In the eighties there was anoutbreak of measles, something like 55,000. How many were fully vaxedindividuals? And the second part of my question was if I opt to do the MMR,how many strains of measles are there? And what strains will my son beprotected against? I read about 8 new wild measles viruses. >>the majority of individuals in the early 80s outbreak were adults... I was one of them. Most of us were "fully" vaccinated... however, you need to remember, our generation was vac'd in the 60s when only one shot was given, and almost no one was told to get boosters upon adulthood. We received only the measles vaccine (the MMR wasn't around back then), and you only got one shot, there was no "series". I was 23 when I contracted measles.As for strains? I guess someone else can address that... I've only ever heard of 2 - the wild version, and the mutated version caused by the vaccine - which is what most of us are dealing with now, and what my kids got. It's possible that the virus has mutated several times, I guess, but I would think it would be like the flu strains. You would still retain immunity for that strain or family.

[Guest guest]

At 10:23 AM 2/24/01 -0800, you wrote:

>Sari, The mother should be concerned about damage from the vaccine if her

daughter got a " mild " case of measles. That is an indication of an adverse

reaction and there could be other things going on in the body that could

have residual effects. My grandson regressed after receiving his MMR, Hep B

and chicken pox vaccine in his last round of shots. After studying the

subject of vaccine caused autism I'm not convinced it was just the MMR that

caused his neurological damage. In my opinion, the number of viruses and

toxins that are in the vaccines, the accumulation and combinations, start

the process of damaging the body, especially the brain. I believe it is the

last round that " knocks out " the immune system similar to a boxing match,

where the stronger opponent weakens the weaker one until the final knockout.

In this case, the stronger opponent is the vaccine, the weaker is the

child's immune system. C.

, you're right the mercury in the DPT and the toxins in all the vax

knock out the child. The MMR is the crushing blow. It can be any of the vax

that knock the child out. Some kids have died from just getting the DPT.

They are all toxic and pure poison, but great money makers..... My son

received 8 toxins in ONE DAY. How I could have let them do that????? I

completely, implicitly, trusted the dr when he told me vax were " safe "