Engineering

[Guest guest]

I respect the heck out of

non-ADD/aspergers parents who have made the effort to learn about a

condition they can see but haven't felt.

Hi Dave

Yours and 's posts are particularly interesting to me, as I'm constantly

doing the above in relation to my Asperger's husband (who is in IT - also, I

think attractive to ASD people). Hence my recent post about the novel Speed of

Dark by Moon, which is written from the view point of an autistic man.

If you or -- or anyone else on spectrum -- read it, please let me know

whether it rings true with you.

Thanks

Lucy, UK

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I suspect that there is a statistically significant number of parents on

this list who are in the engineering and science professions. They

attract ADD/aspergers people like flies, and a good number of parents of

ADD/aspergers kids have it themselves. I think the kids with

ADD/asperger parents are in a better position, provided their parents

are high enough functioning. It's hard to be a kid with those things if

your parents have no way to relate to it, and I respect the heck out of

non-ADD/aspergers parents who have made the effort to learn about a

condition they can see but haven't felt.

Although neither my father or me knew it when I was younger, he is wired

the same way as me and had similar experiences as me. His guidance was

very helpful, even when it was simple, like " this is how to make a fist

when you are being picked on. Make sure you don't break your thumb! "

When I have kids, I hope they'll not have bad ADD/Aspergers even though

it runs in the family. I know too much about nutrition and medical

things. I know my child will have a GFCF diet while young. I know to

avoid heavy metals. I know to avoid antibiotics (hello vitamin C and

hydrogen peroxide IV). I'll move out of country before my kid is

getting ANY vaccination, thimerosol or not. These are all things I

learned trying to track down my own problems, but I hope they benefit my

children when I have them. If they do have ADD/aspergers or other

disorders, I will be able to spot them early and take appropriate steps.

I seriously considered a career change into neuropharmacology and or

biofeedback, and may do it, if I make enough money to afford it soon. I

can't wait for the next life to find medicine that don't hurt people!

Thanks,

Dave

Dave Asprey

dave@...

www.asprey.net

>>>>>>>>>>>Message: 13

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:04:20 -0500

From: " E " <lizzy03@...>

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1675

Dave -

Thanks for the suggestions! Nobody has ever given me an inkling of a

clue where to turn - and now I have to drive my DDs (1 and 3) 4 hours,

each way, for treatment! It is hard enough without having to fear a fit

of exhaustion mid-way!

I'm a systems programmer/analyst, too - you name it, I can build it, fix

it, design it, code it, document it!!! Right now I'm a Life Engineer

(trying to engineer one for my ASD daughter)!

In my next life, I want to design medicines that cure without damaging

patients' health!!!

- Liz P

[Guest guest]

in autism there is no man or people or anything

this is the true condition of reality

some hope people see this.

>

> I respect the heck out of

> non-ADD/aspergers parents who have made the effort to learn about

a

> condition they can see but haven't felt.

>

> Hi Dave

> Yours and 's posts are particularly interesting to me, as

I'm constantly doing the above in relation to my Asperger's husband

(who is in IT - also, I think attractive to ASD people). Hence my

recent post about the novel Speed of Dark by Moon, which is

written from the view point of an autistic man. If you or --

or anyone else on spectrum -- read it, please let me know whether it

rings true with you.

> Thanks

> Lucy, UK

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lucy,

I should be more specific - I trained in engineering but switched to IT.

IT has the most aspergers people of any profession I know! Thanks

for your reference - just ordered the book. I read the reviews. Nobody

knows how hard it is to constantly watch other people so you can copy

what they do, since you have no idea what is normal. I still don't know

the " rules " for eye contact when you walk down a hallway past someone.

Fortunately, I've got most of the rules down and nobody believes me when

I tell them I have aspergers. They have no idea the effort it took to

get here. But as far as the book goes, I'm curious to see if the

conclusion is that you are your aspergers. I don't think that is the

case. Aspergers gives me a few skills like teaching and pattern

recognition, but those wouldn't go away if I could also recognize faces

and remember names. I think that between chemistry and electronics,

ADD/aspergers can be heavily controlled or killed. We'll know; either I

will get it, or I'll die of old age trying.

My relationship actually got better when I learned about ADD/aspergers

and my wife did too. She doesn't have it but has learned that it

actually does hurt when she squeezes my hand or tries to hold only one

finger.

I've read several autobiographies by Aspergers people. All of them are

similar, and all sound like me!

Thanks,

Dave

Dave Asprey

dave@...

www.asprey.net

>>>>>> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:32:20 -0000

From: " Lucy McCarraher " <lucy@...>

Subject: Re: Engineering

I respect the heck out of

non-ADD/aspergers parents who have made the effort to learn about a

condition they can see but haven't felt.

Hi Dave

Yours and 's posts are particularly interesting to me, as I'm

constantly doing the above in relation to my Asperger's husband (who is

in IT - also, I think attractive to ASD people). Hence my recent post

about the novel Speed of Dark by Moon, which is written from

the view point of an autistic man. If you or -- or anyone else on

spectrum -- read it, please let me know whether it rings true with you.

Thanks

Lucy, UK

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Dave Asprey " <dave@...>

> what they do, since you have no idea what is normal. I still don't know

> the " rules " for eye contact when you walk down a hallway past someone.

IMO this " rule " is tough on everybody...it's too vague and

situation-dependent. There really aren't any " rules " . Do you know the

person, how well, have you already

greeted them that day, on and on. Almost everybody I think finds this

awkward to

one degree or another to sort through all the pertinent variables in a

second or two and respond " correctly " .

In my experience most people know this is an inherently awkward

situation and don't hold any response against the other person. In other

words, I " blame " the situation rather than the other person if she averts

her eyes or otherwise behaves differently than I would expect or would have

done. I think most people allow this leeway.

Kathy IN

[Guest guest]

i was in town this afternoon and could have gone to a movie but went

by the sea with its wash in on the rocks and the moon slowly rising

with the sparkle of moon glitter in a line across the sea.......

absolute visual truth

there is only one, relative truth is simply this seen through

kalidoscope

crazy tumbling colours

shriek to hell when thier disorder is pointed out to them

deny me my stupid tv movies books drugs........

u are welcome to believe stories

> Isn't fiction - novels, videos, film - a natural part of human life

and a way of analysing and presenting different aspects of truth? If

life is the whole book, who is the writer and who the reader? Surely

we all comprehend our lives as stories and interpret as we go along.

If you don't agree with this, does this answer my earlier question

about different views of truth - autistic = absolute, NT = relative?

> Lucy :-)

> Re: Engineering

>

>

> 'truth' is a discovery, it is not readily realised simply by

taking a

> straight look but requires a lot of investigation and trial and

error

> and moving onto to new understanding when following objectivity

> requires it.

> novels videos film are by thier natures stories and interprations

so

> what truth can there be there.

>

> just look to life and thats the whole book.

>

> people clutter thier lives with synthetic rubbish and then

complain

> on the message board when something unvarnished is told to

them.......

>

>

>of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Here's something wierd for you.

I was a novelist. I wrote 3 books that were published internationally, one

just in England because I didn't want the US publisher to wreck it anyway (as

they usually do) and it was a dark book and didn't really think it would do

well.

Marti Leimbach is my maiden name and the one I published under.

Anyway....talk about NT. Certainly NT! I mean, I'm still NT, but what I'm

trying to say is that the thought of making up a story no longer intrigues me

at all. Not since Nicky.

Why on earth would I make up something for somebody to read, to like or not

like? Not that I mind novels/movies/tv. I don't care at all. Sometimes

the simple world of my daughter's Snoopy shows actually engages me and

delights me. I can still laugh, don't get me wrong.

What I'm trying to say is that I understand where is coming from and

also the ones who like books and movies. I used to like books and movies,

too. One of my books even became a movie (ok, a bad one). Now, to me

anyway, it's all rubbish.

When my husband (formerly publishing director at Penguin Books, UK) says, you

have to write, you just have to, I can't think why.

Now, I'd just write for the money. Weirdly, I can still play the game.

But I'm different now because movies hold nothing for me, haven't read a

novel in years.

I read bel Stehli's book, The sound of a Miracle. She's obviously

capable of writing and does a kind of novelist/factual book. I just skipped

all the personal stuff, all the " story " and went for the facts. How did the

child present? At what age? What did she do for the child? What worked,

why, what didn't. Years ago I'd be into the " story " of it, the narrative.

See. So we can change. And that has nothing to do with autism. It has to

do with life experiences. Wierd, huh.

Marti

[Guest guest]

No, I haven't read it, but that doesn't mean much. I wrote Dying Young,

Love and Houses, Sun Dial Street, and a book never published in the US called

Falling Backward. DY was a big success and made into bad movie, the others

not so much but I really don't know why L & H wasn't because it was funny.

I think the editor was on her way out of the company at the time.

But, like I said, ever since finding out about Nicky's problems, well I just

don't write much. Or read anything " for fun " . That's not entirely true.

I write stories for my daughter, mostly about her hamster. And I

occasionally write for a paper if I need some money and am lucky enough to

get asked. I will write another book but it won't be the same. Just

trying to earn some money and it's not any fun anymore.

marti

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:35:31 PM Central Standard Time,

scottron2@... writes:

> In any case, I too, can relate to the loss of

> interest in movies/books. I've always loved a good story.

Had to chime in on this topic. About the only book I read now--unless I'm

reading something autism related--is romance novels. I know, I know! They

are cheesy. But they are easy to read which means I can read one even while

my kid is jumping on my bed and yelling " eeeeeeeeeee. " They are not deep

enough to need silence. You don't have to worry about missing the meaning of

something. Plus, the sex aint too bad either! :-)

[Guest guest]

Ok, Marti, I've been dying to ask you about your books since you

mentioned being a published author a while back and me being an avid

reader (until I had Olivia). What are the names of the books you wrote?

Fiction or non? Something I may have read? Did you ever read that book

by Sparks, I'm having a brain fart here but it was about a

fireman with a love story but the main character had a son with autism.

Did you ever read it? In any case, I too, can relate to the loss of

interest in movies/books. I've always loved a good story. I am now

living a book. And here's hoping to a happy ending.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

crazy tumbling colours

shriek to hell when thier disorder is pointed out to them

, this is beautiful poetry and attests to your creative, fictional

abilities!

Like Marti, I used to write fiction -- television scripts in my case, many for

children. Now I work in the business world as a consultant, specialising in

work-life balance, and had a factual (self-help) book called The Book of

Balanced Living on personal work-life balance published last year.

Although I'm not involved in fiction writing/production any more, I do think

that fiction can be a very useful learning tool, as for me with Speed of Dark

and understanding (if it's accurate) an ASD mindset.

The link that was posted last week to the article " The Geek Syndrome " also ties

in with this for me: as a consultant I go into organisations and try to

implement better work-life balance for employees through more flexible working

arrangements. But for it to really work, senior managers and line managers need

to be able to empathise with, for instance, the needs of working parents, staff

with disabilities, in order to see the business benefits (a major theme in Speed

of Dark) of employing them to work non-standard hours or from home etc. The

preponderance of non-empathetic managers I come up against, especially in IT,

engineering, legal etc companies (see Geek Syndrome article) is a real problem

to me, professionally speaking, and I need to find ways to address this in

management training programmes.

Dave's comments about learning empathetic strategies as a teenager through

magazines was really interesting - I'll bet those articles had " case studies " to

show how it worked (which were probably fictional!). And, of course, copying the

behaviour of others. Does anyone else have any experience of learning or

training in social skills/empathy that they could share? Are there any training

programmes for ASD people in this area at all?

I could, of course, suggest that my client organisations offer free enzymes to

all their non-empathetic managers and see if it helps!

Thanks for any ideas.

Lucy

UK

Like Ma

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 17/02/2003 10:16:07 GMT Standard Time,

lucy@... writes:

> others. Does anyone else have any experience of learning or training in

> social skills/empathy that they could share? Are there any training

> programmes for ASD people in this area at all?

>

Lucy there is Carole Grays Social Stories. I haven;' had a good look at the

book or anything but I've seen reports from others and how this is helpful to

play out a whole situation and to describe daft bits of seepch, basic example

its raining cats and dogs. I try and make backwards social stories to expalin

to my NT's what Sam may be thinking (based on my reading) and what bits he

misses, lkie understanding that somebody else might no agree with him. I

don;t think I making any sense right now but at least I remeber name LOL

Mandi in UK