,please comment on 38611 and 38616

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Could you please look at 38611 and 38616 and comment. And I have one

more question since I posted the above. We just started chelating

(Round 1 this weekend) and I was wondering if we needed to stop

chelating when we introduce a new enzyme? I was looking at the site

as to what to expect when you start a new enzyme and it seemed that

some of the reactions you see with enzymes could be the same if you

were chelating, ie increased stimming. Thank you for your thoughts

and take care, Becky

[Guest guest]

>>> Could you please look at 38611 and 38616 and comment.

These two are different threads. Is this correct? I will start with

38611 and these questions below. The other replies were good, so

just add this on for further info.

>>>since a pediatrician said the peptides test were inaccurate.

Correct. Even Dr. Tim Buie said to skip 'em. Just eliminate the food

and see if the person gets better. Eliminate it for one month (for

any food). If there is no positive change, put it back and go on to

the next one you suspect. He also said that it was important to

challenge ANY food eliminated every 6 months. Dairy and grains

should not be singled out as either more problematic or less

problematic than any other foods. People get too hung up on the

casein and gluten. You should consider other foods equally for

reactions: corn, potatoes, oils, beets, etc. Whatever you eat the

most of can cause you to be sensitized to it (and not tolerate

it)...but the gut can heal or the nerves can become de-sensitized

within 6 months, and so challenging is good. It is important to keep

a variety of foods in the diet, not just do mostly all soy, or all

rice, or all of anything.

His talk was mostly on the nerve physiology of the gut and how

symptoms can actually be due to sensory issues (what needs to be

addressed) and not food reactions/'allergies' (not elimining tons of

food on end).

>>>We recently had the peptide test done and it came out negative

for casein and gluten despite three minor infractions last year

(communion at church.)

These tests are inaccurate to begin with.

>>>One of Dana's or 's post stated that not all kids need to be

on the diet,

Right. Some people with autism don't have any gut problems or

digestion problems at all. Of those that do, people might be helped

by any number of diets, nothing particular makes GFCF stand out over

others. Some people get really ill on GFCF...so it isn't a 100% safe

alternative...and there are no long-term studies on the effects of

this. I don't think it is astronomically more of a risk than others,

but it definitely isn't risk-free for everyone.

>>>>so my question is, what is the indication (medical tests,

and/or behavioral signs) that one should be on the diet, therefore

one should take enzymes to try to get off the diet?

There aren't any concrete ones that apply for everyone. No tests. In

fact, my son that responded well to eliminating dairy, and did

fabulous on Peptizyde never showed any digestive problems at all

ever in his life. My Gut Son had terrible gut problems with stuff

coming out all over the place, but his behavior was relatively

acceptable or just mildly intolerable. Either behavior and/or

physical signs are valid, in my view, because individuals just

expresss discomfort or physical problems differently.

One note: Try to not think of enzymes as exactly like diet. Enzymes

end up doing much more than simply food breakdown, and they are

probably affecting various components of health at the same time.

Many people note responding to a diet do really well with enzymes.

On the other hand, even with regular enzyme use, some people still

need to adjust or follow a diet. So it isn't an exact exchange.

>>>If I did not see any behavioral changes does that mean that the

diet is not working or should I take it that since his stools are

softer, the diet is working??

Either of these is valid - physical or behavioral. I would say that

since you saw all that change mentioned earlier (but I didn't copy

here), food has an effect on your son and at least some of the

changes were positive. Given that looking at diet and/or enzymes

would be worthwhile to pursue.

>>>He suggested No-Fenol since it has a tendency to loosen the

stools

Fiber digesting enzymes such what No-Fenol contains, and proteases

like Peptizyde favor this.

>>>Should I increase the No-Fenol to 1 capsule at each meal?

You can certainly try this. I would. It sounds as though things are

going in the right direction. My son who has all the elimination

problems did improve on No-Fenol in this way.

>>>therefore can I use the No-Fenol instead of the GFCF diet?

No. The GFCF diet targets proteins and starches (casein and gluten

are the specific proteins in question) and No-Fenol targets fibers.

Totally different substances. Only Peptizyde is used regularly

instead of the GFCF diet, and it does a fine job for most people. A

few people still need to stay on the diet for unknown reasons.

>>>Devin mentioned that the other enzymes (ZP and AFP) had the

carbohydrate enzymes in them so may not be a benefit for our son but

suggested Peptizyde. What would be the benefit of adding Peptizyde?

Would that help to get him off the GFCF?

Yes. Peptizyde tackles the proteins, casein and gluten and is a good

replacement for the GFCF diet for most people.

>>> I guess I am wondering if the GFCF didn't have much of an effect

on him, does he really have a problem with digesting gluten and

casein?

The GFCF diet is not an exact indicator of whether you have an

problem digesting gluten and casein. I will explain what I mean. You

might try a GFCF diet and see improvement for reasons besides the

casein molecule, or the gluten protein molecule. Eliminating dairy

may help you because you are lactose intolerant (not casein), or

have high histamine (dairy may increase histamine levels), or cannot

digest coal-tar (a preservative in dairy added vitamin palmitate A),

or one of the other proteins or components of milk. You might

actually have a problem with digesting carbohydrates in general.

Taking out dairy and grains may reduce the total carb low in the

person's diet. Many people going GFCF are actually reducing prime

sources of barley malt which is the problem, or drastically reducing

artificial colorings and flavorings by default.

On the other hand, about 50% of people seeing no improvement, or

nothing significant, do quite well and see great success with

Peptizyde. Or they might try another diet, see little or no results,

and do very well with other enzymes.

>>>>How long does it take for an intolerance/reaction to show up

after reintroducing gluten and/or casein?

Depends on the person and food. For my son a dairy reaction emerged

2-3 hours later (like clockwork) in the form of migraine pain. For

my younger son, a reaction was constipation the next day or two.

>>>And I have one more question since I posted the above. We just

started chelating (Round 1 this weekend) and I was wondering if we

needed to stop chelating when we introduce a new enzyme?

I don't feel one does...in fact, it would be better to keep with

whatever you are doing and concentrate on the chelation. That has

enough side-effects as it is. The enzymes may help support the body

and provide nutrition during chelation. If supplements in chelation

schemes are taken orally the enzymes may help the body maximize them

(help them be absorbed better). It may also enhance elimination and

so help toxins leaving the body. Many of the chelation agents do not

draw the enzymes through the stomach of small intestine so the

interaction is minimal if it happens ever.

>>>>I was looking at the site as to what to expect when you start a

new enzyme and it seemed that some of the reactions you see with

enzymes could be the same if you were chelating, ie increased

stimming.

I would same that same. When you start enzymes, you are not only

starting a process of releasing more nutrients into the body (food

digestion and absorption), but you are enhancing the cleaning out of

waste, inflammation, pathogens, and toxins - so there might be a

detox reaction. Chelation is essentially a detox reaction as well.

Inability to process phenols is a 'detox' process. Yeast and

bacteria die-off are detoxing. All of these tend to have the same

set of possible reactions to them. Granted the toxins and exact

mechanisms are different, but you might see a similar pattern of

reactions in a person.

Does this help, or only confuse the issue more? The summary response

would be: Try Peptizyde with the No-Fenol...off the GFCF diet if you

are already off. After that, you can try taking out first dairy, and

then grains and see if there is any more improvement. If you are on

the GFCF now, still try Peptizyde and No-Fenol, then slowly trial

with dairy and then gluten and see if the improvements hold. Some

people get much better with dairy and grains in the diet, so that is

a possibility too.

.