Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 This note is as moderator on the recent influx of discussions on heavy metals, chelations, removals, and related topics. It is okay to bring up these things in the course of discussions, but I think it would be best if in-depth discussions were handled in groups geared for those purposes. Here are some thoughts on it: For one, these topics seem to just spontaneously become very intensely heated on a regular basis...and then the politics move in...and then the activism moves in....and, well, I think that it is better off in a group designated for that purpose and where people are prepared to 'get into it'. The Wonderful World of Chelation is a very contested and hotly argued path, which is not without risk...because people CAN get really ill if they do the wrong thing. And there doesn't seem to be any way to definitely 'prove' any of this anyway. There seems to be a very real problem of a lack of a 'good' and 'safe' place to discuss chelation or metals. The a-m board can be a bit rough...it is an intense subject. I am told other groups are far worse. The Pfeiffer group is not so tense but you need to be doing that protocol...same with chelatingkids, I think. I have never been in that group. It might be best if in the enzyme group that we focus on limiting discussions to things like detoxification schemes which may just happen to remove a few metals along the way. This can involve basic supplements, 'clean' diets, healing the gut, and such. But when it gets to Chelation Protocal ABC and " moving Metal X from this part of the body out of the body by Route Y, and how best to do that, that is really something that should be done in-depth privately or in a group more suited to this purpose. Because chelation and metals are such a sticky, political, and risky topic people really need to seek out proper medical or experienced counsel - I consider Andy C to be very experienced even though not a medical doctor. One of the reasons I myself decided not to do something known as Chelation is because I personally do not want to get into all that other stuff either. I believe the mercury group, or at least Andy Cutler, will discuss technical points in a worthwhile discussion on their merit. Even the metals transport versus mercury removal issue. Just it needs to be in the spirit of an honest discussion and it would most likely be useful and informative on the a-m list. He is usually very straightforward, though, not one to gift-wrap a message - just the content. Please contact me if there are any questions on this. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 In a message dated 6/2/03 3:10:51 am, kjorn@... writes: > There seems to be a very real problem of a lack of a 'good' > and 'safe' place to discuss chelation or metals. The a-m board can > be a bit rough...it is an intense subject. I am told other groups > are far worse. The Pfeiffer group is not so tense but you need to be > doing that protocol...same with chelatingkids, I think. I have never > been in that group. > Dear and all, I only started speaking on chelation on this board because Dana's posts referred to her success through chelation so very often. Everyone is intrigued by such success stories. That's why i went to her webisite, asked all sorts of questions here and elsewhere. If what you are suggesting is that it's okay to mention chelation and a few minor details about its practice, but not anything else, then really there's no point in talking about it at all. If one mentions it casually but does not talk about it in at least a little detail one might end up talking about it as though it's as easy as taking some vitamin C, and misguide people into thinking they can just order some chelators from Kirkman's and have a go. Over the past few weeks I've read thousands of posts from a couple of years ago and forward on the A-M board. Having done so, there is no way I'd speak openly about chelation at the A-M group, although they are good at answering a straightforward question that in no way suggests a problem with current practices suggested by Andy or someone else who agrees Andy. I have great respect for Andy, dont' get me wrong. I may even one day use DMSA and/or ALA (unlikely, however) as a chelation agent. And certainly he's got the protocol for such chelators that seems to work for many people. I belong to Carlton's group over at autism-challenge . I haven't actually asked 's permission to invite everyone but that's where I ask about chelation and have gotten good information. There are plenty of people on the list who have used chelation. Many who have not. Various results. My private email is Martharolfe@.... With the exception of Valentina's getting cross at , I haven't seen any heated posts on chelation on this list, however I will stop posting about chelation full stop if that is what you want. Every good and worthwhile thing I've done to help my (one time) moderately autistic son has been by listening to one person's extreme views then balancing it with another person's extreme views. Then going to do research, then talking to someone else, etc. I guess I've just cultivated the ability to hear people calling each other idiots and frauds and just taking the " meat " of the conversation and spitting out the " bones " . Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 's just got a list, not a site. It's www.autism-challenge . It's a fabulous group of people. Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 >>>> r u feeling that there is a need for another message board for metals transport issues and its swamping this board? No...actually the opposite. (see how well I did of making making myself understood)...I think the metals transport is relative and interesting personally but just don't want to get into rounds and rounds of 'what defines chelation' and 'does this actually move molecule X to body site Y?' type things. That is all. No one has done anything inappropriate. Just don't want to over-whelm many newer people by the in-depth discussions of various elements. Thanks for the link to 's group, that is a good place to do a healthy discussion on these issues. The mercury board can be a tough place to get a basic question in at times. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 , I have to say I don't really see where there has been a problem in discussing chelation here anymore than any other technically " OT " subject like yeast, bacteria, schoolsystems, testing, detox, therapy,book reviews, etc etc. Noone has been rude or argumenative here that I have ever seen. This is why I prefer this board. I am trying to gather as much information as I can-along with alot of other parents-to decide what the best course of action is for my own child. I trust the parents here and appreciate their feedback and experience. Most chelation posts are labled as such and I don't see why people uninterested can't just skip them. Same as the " ENZY " or whatever those posts were about the legal troubles. I realize you have made a decision about chelation that you are comfortable with and that is great, but some of us are still searching. I hope you might rethink your position on this. Perhaps it is enough to just suggest everyone remain as friendly and helpful as they have been already. Thanks. Hope I didn't step on any toes. --- In , " jornmatt <kjorn@t...> " <kjorn@t...> wrote: > This note is as moderator on the recent influx of discussions on > heavy metals, chelations, removals, and related topics. > > It is okay to bring up these things in the course of discussions, > but I think it would be best if in-depth discussions were handled in > groups geared for those purposes. Here are some thoughts on it: > > For one, these topics seem to just spontaneously become very > intensely heated on a regular basis...and then the politics move > in...and then the activism moves in....and, well, I think that it is > better off in a group designated for that purpose and where people > are prepared to 'get into it'. > > The Wonderful World of Chelation is a very contested and hotly > argued path, which is not without risk...because people CAN get > really ill if they do the wrong thing. And there doesn't seem to be > any way to definitely 'prove' any of this anyway. > > There seems to be a very real problem of a lack of a 'good' > and 'safe' place to discuss chelation or metals. The a-m board can > be a bit rough...it is an intense subject. I am told other groups > are far worse. The Pfeiffer group is not so tense but you need to be > doing that protocol...same with chelatingkids, I think. I have never > been in that group. > > It might be best if in the enzyme group that we focus on limiting > discussions to things like detoxification schemes which may just > happen to remove a few metals along the way. This can involve basic > supplements, 'clean' diets, healing the gut, and such. But when it > gets to Chelation Protocal ABC and " moving Metal X from this part of > the body out of the body by Route Y, and how best to do that, that > is really something that should be done in-depth privately or in a > group more suited to this purpose. Because chelation and metals are > such a sticky, political, and risky topic people really need to seek > out proper medical or experienced counsel - I consider Andy C to be > very experienced even though not a medical doctor. > > One of the reasons I myself decided not to do something known as > Chelation is because I personally do not want to get into all that > other stuff either. > > I believe the mercury group, or at least Andy Cutler, will discuss > technical points in a worthwhile discussion on their merit. Even the > metals transport versus mercury removal issue. Just it needs to be > in the spirit of an honest discussion and it would most likely be > useful and informative on the a-m list. He is usually very > straightforward, though, not one to gift-wrap a message - just the > content. > > Please contact me if there are any questions on this. > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Marti, Thanks for the mention of 's site. Do you have a site link to join? Do I email her? You can send to me privately if you want, but I am sure there are others here who would appreciate more info as well. Thanks. -- - In , Martharolfe@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 6/2/03 3:10:51 am, kjorn@t... writes: > > > > There seems to be a very real problem of a lack of a 'good' > > and 'safe' place to discuss chelation or metals. The a-m board can > > be a bit rough...it is an intense subject. I am told other groups > > are far worse. The Pfeiffer group is not so tense but you need to be > > doing that protocol...same with chelatingkids, I think. I have never > > been in that group. > > > > Dear and all, > > I only started speaking on chelation on this board because Dana's posts > referred to her success through chelation so very often. Everyone is > intrigued by such success stories. That's why i went to her webisite, asked > all sorts of questions here and elsewhere. If what you are suggesting is > that it's okay to mention chelation and a few minor details about its > practice, but not anything else, then really there's no point in talking > about it at all. > > If one mentions it casually but does not talk about it in at least a little > detail one might end up talking about it as though it's as easy as taking > some vitamin C, and misguide people into thinking they can just order some > chelators from Kirkman's and have a go. > > Over the past few weeks I've read thousands of posts from a couple of years > ago and forward on the A-M board. Having done so, there is no way I'd speak > openly about chelation at the A-M group, although they are good at answering > a straightforward question that in no way suggests a problem with current > practices suggested by Andy or someone else who agrees Andy. > > I have great respect for Andy, dont' get me wrong. I may even one day use > DMSA and/or ALA (unlikely, however) as a chelation agent. And certainly he's > got the protocol for such chelators that seems to work for many people. > > I belong to Carlton's group over at autism- challenge > I haven't actually asked 's permission to invite everyone but that's > where I ask about chelation and have gotten good information. There are > plenty of people on the list who have used chelation. Many who have not. > Various results. > > My private email is Martharolfe@a... > > With the exception of Valentina's getting cross at , I haven't seen any > heated posts on chelation on this list, however I will stop posting about > chelation full stop if that is what you want. > > Every good and worthwhile thing I've done to help my (one time) moderately > autistic son has been by listening to one person's extreme views then > balancing it with another person's extreme views. Then going to do > research, then talking to someone else, etc. I guess I've just cultivated > the ability to hear people calling each other idiots and frauds and just > taking the " meat " of the conversation and spitting out the " bones " . > > Marti > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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