Re: looking at the full text ala article

[Guest guest]

>>>> " One explanation for the different findings between dithiols

and monothiols could be that dithiols differ from

> monothiols in that they do not form stable complexes

> with mercury ions.

I thought it was supposed to be the other way around...that the

dithiols were the stable arrangements. Something doesn't mesh here.

I would like to here Andy Cs comments on this article.

I read alot about selenium today (and then went and bought some

more, LOL). It appears it does protect the body from mercury either

before mercury exposure or after the fact. And that it recycles

other antioxidants is good.

>>> a comment by andy cutler allithiamine may not be a true chelator

> in the sense of having sulphur atoms in a pincher arrangement,

rather just a double atomed sulphur which would sorta put it half

way between an aspect of metals transport enhancement(sulphur) and

pincher molecule chelation. it would be interesting to know this for

a fact.

This is exactly what I was trying to get at that Valentina brought

up and provided the nice link for. That selenium may not be a true

chelator by definition but it still is good for removing metals and

repairing from the damage. One person may argue it is not a chelator

in the technical sense but someone else may argue it is a chelator

from the practical sense (that is, it gets the metals out or

prevents them from being a problem)

.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for this, . I like the idea of the TTFD, but

not the idea that it might work like MSM since my daughter didn't do

well on that. I just don't know. I guess I'm not comfortable with

any one answer yet. Reading up on selenium more. I feel this big

biological clock ticking biting at my heels right now. Your

info/opinions is much appreciated.

> thanx to a generous benefactor making the full text avaliable.

>

> " The concentrations

> used both for LA (100 mol/l) and

> mercury ions (1 mol/l) in the combination experiments

> are relatively high. The upper blood concentration

> limit for mercury ions is about

> 0.05–0.1 mol/l (Moyer, 1999), whereas a serum

> concentration of about 10 mol/l of LA has been

> measured after a single dose of 600 mg (Breithaupt-

> Grogler et al., 1999). "

>

> so these levels are way higher than the autism mercury protocol

would

> cause, but not necessarily some of the once a day doses.

>

> for below

>

> ala is a dithiol, glutathione, nac and cysteine are monothiols

>

> " One explanation

> for the different findings between dithiols and

> monothiols could be that dithiols differ from

> monothiols in that they do not form stable complexes

> with mercury ions. Instead they might release

> mercury ions in complex with cysteine and

> glutathione, which results in a higher activity of

> free mercury ions and a more pronounced effect

> on glutathione metabolism (Hultberg et al., 2001;

> Divine et al., 1999). Another possibility is that

> dithiols increase the cellular uptake of mercury.

> Recently, it was reported that mercury uptake by

> hepatoma cells was dependent on the type of thiol

> ligand present (Wang et al., 2000) and that the

> uptake in the presence of DTT was significantly

> increased compared to that observed in the presence

> of monothiols. Another explanation, at least

> applicable for LA, might be that the cells become

> exhausted because LA uses cellular reducing... "

>

> so ala hits cysteine or glutathione and releases a mercury ion

> ...... i'm just wondering if there is some conflict bewteen broader

> based supplement approaches and ala chelation in that mostly the

> broader based is promoting glutathione and cysteine.

>

> i think its just starting to lose simplicity and keeping track of

the

> pros and cons is to diffcult, andy cutlers timing and on off

periods

> etc, low dose seems to work around these issues

>

> " It is also possible that even though the levels of

> mercury ions and LA in these 3-day cell-culture

> experiments were higher than the normally observed

> blood concentrations that over a longer

> time course these levels could be sufficient to

> induce similar cellular effects as the higher concentration

> used in our short term experiments. "

>

> the article does seem to favour monothiols(glutahinone, cysteine,

> nac) over dithiols(ala) esp i don't like dithiols 'not forming

stable

> complexes with mercury ions'

>

> i don't know

>

> maybe there is an intrinsic divide between a metals transport

> enhancement strategy selenium metalliothionien enzymes which grows

> monothiols and ala chelation which is dithiol.

>

> from a comment by andy cutler allithiamine may not be a true

chelator

> in the sense of having sulphur atoms in a pincher arrangement,

rather

> just a double atomed sulphur which would sorta put it half way

between

> an aspect of metals transport enhancement(sulphur) and pincher

> molecule chelation. it would be interesting to know this for a fact.

>

> its interesting how very large themes like the differences in

> character between autism treatment and sort of play

to

> real life difference in approach and maybe situations.

>

> double bond, dithiol, on off periods, a more segmented paradigm

> comapred the more composite fusion of supplemntation to enhance

> metals transport. just from that u can predict that ttfd transdermal

> (taurine?)

> will probably be tryed in a major way on this board compared to ala.

>

>

> as valentina pointed out i am no expert and am only thinking aloud

> and have improved sufficently well on enzymes, selenium boron zinc

> msm(which i may try dropping) midday sunshine that ala chelation

> seems to involve the possibility of a degree of neuronal

destruction

> that makes for caution and about ttfd i don't know except that to

> know it was not a pincher type chelator would mean it was operating

> more as a sulphur thing like msm

[Guest guest]

msm needs a touch of vitamin c ithink as it is an oxidser.

if she reacted badly to it then she may be low sulphur which

unfortunately is a sign of mercury toxicity.

to have an answer you have to have a question that stays in one place

long enough ..................

> > thanx to a generous benefactor making the full text avaliable.

> >

> > " The concentrations

> > used both for LA (100 mol/l) and

> > mercury ions (1 mol/l) in the combination experiments

> > are relatively high. The upper blood concentration

> > limit for mercury ions is about

> > 0.05–0.1 mol/l (Moyer, 1999), whereas a serum

> > concentration of about 10 mol/l of LA has been

> > measured after a single dose of 600 mg (Breithaupt-

> > Grogler et al., 1999). "

> >

> > so these levels are way higher than the autism mercury protocol

> would

> > cause, but not necessarily some of the once a day doses.

> >

> > for below

> >

> > ala is a dithiol, glutathione, nac and cysteine are monothiols

> >

> > " One explanation

> > for the different findings between dithiols and

> > monothiols could be that dithiols differ from

> > monothiols in that they do not form stable complexes

> > with mercury ions. Instead they might release

> > mercury ions in complex with cysteine and

> > glutathione, which results in a higher activity of

> > free mercury ions and a more pronounced effect

> > on glutathione metabolism (Hultberg et al., 2001;

> > Divine et al., 1999). Another possibility is that

> > dithiols increase the cellular uptake of mercury.

> > Recently, it was reported that mercury uptake by

> > hepatoma cells was dependent on the type of thiol

> > ligand present (Wang et al., 2000) and that the

> > uptake in the presence of DTT was significantly

> > increased compared to that observed in the presence

> > of monothiols. Another explanation, at least

> > applicable for LA, might be that the cells become

> > exhausted because LA uses cellular reducing... "

> >

> > so ala hits cysteine or glutathione and releases a mercury ion

> > ...... i'm just wondering if there is some conflict bewteen

broader

> > based supplement approaches and ala chelation in that mostly the

> > broader based is promoting glutathione and cysteine.

> >

> > i think its just starting to lose simplicity and keeping track of

> the

> > pros and cons is to diffcult, andy cutlers timing and on off

> periods

> > etc, low dose seems to work around these issues

> >

> > " It is also possible that even though the levels of

> > mercury ions and LA in these 3-day cell-culture

> > experiments were higher than the normally observed

> > blood concentrations that over a longer

> > time course these levels could be sufficient to

> > induce similar cellular effects as the higher concentration

> > used in our short term experiments. "

> >

> > the article does seem to favour monothiols(glutahinone, cysteine,

> > nac) over dithiols(ala) esp i don't like dithiols 'not forming

> stable

> > complexes with mercury ions'

> >

> > i don't know

> >

> > maybe there is an intrinsic divide between a metals transport

> > enhancement strategy selenium metalliothionien enzymes which grows

> > monothiols and ala chelation which is dithiol.

> >

> > from a comment by andy cutler allithiamine may not be a true

> chelator

> > in the sense of having sulphur atoms in a pincher arrangement,

> rather

> > just a double atomed sulphur which would sorta put it half way

> between

> > an aspect of metals transport enhancement(sulphur) and pincher

> > molecule chelation. it would be interesting to know this for a

fact.

> >

> > its interesting how very large themes like the differences in

> > character between autism treatment and sort of

play

> to

> > real life difference in approach and maybe situations.

> >

> > double bond, dithiol, on off periods, a more segmented paradigm

> > comapred the more composite fusion of supplemntation to enhance

> > metals transport. just from that u can predict that ttfd

transdermal

> > (taurine?)

> > will probably be tryed in a major way on this board compared to

ala.

> >

> >

> > as valentina pointed out i am no expert and am only thinking aloud

> > and have improved sufficently well on enzymes, selenium boron zinc

> > msm(which i may try dropping) midday sunshine that ala chelation

> > seems to involve the possibility of a degree of neuronal

> destruction

> > that makes for caution and about ttfd i don't know except that to

> > know it was not a pincher type chelator would mean it was

operating

> > more as a sulphur thing like msm

[Guest guest]

> thanx to a generous benefactor making the full text avaliable.

Cute!

> its interesting how very large themes like the differences in

> character between autism treatment and sort of play

to

> real life difference in approach and maybe situations.

Chelation=rigid schedule/rigid religion

Enzymes=whatever works best for your situation, let's talk it

out/tolerance, let's talk it out

Is that what you mean?

> as valentina pointed out i am no expert and am only thinking aloud

> and have improved sufficently well on enzymes, selenium boron zinc

> msm(which i may try dropping) midday sunshine that ala chelation

> seems to involve the possibility of a degree of neuronal

destruction

We are doing both zinc and selenium and my son has had two great

days. Could be a fluke though, we've had lots of those. I have to

go very low with the zinc I finally realized after Devin said it can

cause diarrhea.

I love a short bit of midday sunshine, too! People need to cut a

little slack for those brave enough to think aloud!

[Guest guest]

I have to

go very low with the zinc I finally realized after Devin said it can

cause diarrhea.

Yikes-good to know that tip! Thanks !

---

In , " Kelley <ckelley100@c...> "

<ckelley100@c...> wrote:

>

> > thanx to a generous benefactor making the full text avaliable.

>

> Cute!

>

>

> > its interesting how very large themes like the differences in

> > character between autism treatment and sort of

play

> to

> > real life difference in approach and maybe situations.

>

>

> Chelation=rigid schedule/rigid religion

>

> Enzymes=whatever works best for your situation, let's talk it

> out/tolerance, let's talk it out

>

> Is that what you mean?

>

> > as valentina pointed out i am no expert and am only thinking aloud

> > and have improved sufficently well on enzymes, selenium boron zinc

> > msm(which i may try dropping) midday sunshine that ala chelation

> > seems to involve the possibility of a degree of neuronal

> destruction

>

> We are doing both zinc and selenium and my son has had two great

> days. Could be a fluke though, we've had lots of those. I have to

> go very low with the zinc I finally realized after Devin said it

can

> cause diarrhea.

>

> I love a short bit of midday sunshine, too! People need to cut a

> little slack for those brave enough to think aloud!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Causes my son to wet, too. I was disappointed tonight to again see a

big wet spot on the underwear, even with a low dose.

I don't think the wetting or diarhhea/soft stools is typical, though.

> I have to

> go very low with the zinc I finally realized after Devin said it

can

> cause diarrhea.

>

>

> Yikes-good to know that tip! Thanks !

>

> ---

[Guest guest]

the wetting maybe secondary

zinc is an anti fungal and may be changing the stomach flora

what type of zinc r u using?

> > I have to

> > go very low with the zinc I finally realized after Devin said it

> can

> > cause diarrhea.

> >

> >

> > Yikes-good to know that tip! Thanks !

> >

> > -

--

[Guest guest]

> the wetting maybe secondary

>

> zinc is an anti fungal and may be changing the stomach flora

>

> what type of zinc r u using?

>

Solaray brand, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate

Just so no one is running around yelling, " It's the off-the-diet

crash, " my son still maintains all the things I've posted over the

21 months. He's just grumpy lately, perhaps from being sick for two

weeks. Or maybe some nine year olds develop this attitude? I

wonder, too, if it is yeast.

[Guest guest]

>> He's just grumpy lately, perhaps from being sick for two

> weeks. Or maybe some nine year olds develop this attitude? I

> wonder, too, if it is yeast.

This time of year is bad for yeast. Holiday cookies still having a

small effect over here, even tho they have been gone for several

weeks. Also, for those of you in COLD climates [LOL it will be 82

here today LOLOLOLOLOL, and I won't even mention those in Australia

who are probably hotter right now], but being inside a closed house

contributes to mold/mildew issues.

Anyway definitely consider yeast and other fungus issues right now.

Dana

[Guest guest]

-for those of you in COLD climates [LOL it will be 82

here today LOLOLOLOLOL

Dana, that was just plain mean!!!!

(in frigid central NY) --

In , " danaatty <danaatty@y...> "

<danaatty@y...> wrote:

>

> >> He's just grumpy lately, perhaps from being sick for two

> > weeks. Or maybe some nine year olds develop this attitude? I

> > wonder, too, if it is yeast.

>

>

>

> This time of year is bad for yeast. Holiday cookies still having a

> small effect over here, even tho they have been gone for several

> weeks. Also, for those of you in COLD climates [LOL it will be 82

> here today LOLOLOLOLOL, and I won't even mention those in Australia

> who are probably hotter right now], but being inside a closed house

> contributes to mold/mildew issues.

>

> Anyway definitely consider yeast and other fungus issues right now.

>

> Dana

[Guest guest]

> -for those of you in COLD climates [LOL it will be 82

> here today LOLOLOLOLOL

>

>

> Dana, that was just plain mean!!!!

>

> (in frigid central NY)

And for all you other people who also enjoyed my message!:

If you are a sports fan, you can watch the Super Bowl today. It is in

San Diego, and I live about 2 hours from there [or 4 hours if during

high traffic times].

Warm winters are nice, no doubt, but our summers are HOT here [most

days over 90 degrees, and generally August is over 100], plus we have

fires here, there was a fire just outside my front door a few months

ago. Most people around here complain that we have no seasons, or

conversely our seasons are warm, warmer, hot, fire.

But I posted that in a message replying to , because she loves it

when I talk about the weather. [Hi !]

Dana