Re: anesthetic and ASD kids

[Guest guest]

Great question. I know that anesthetics can cause regressions in

adults with MCS that last for weeks.

Deth draws some distinctions in his book " Molecular Origins... "

between the effect certain aesthetics have on the brain of a normal

person. So there must be some that are less risky than others.

Are local anesthetics better than systemic ones?

And what about the prospect of orthodonture work? There may be a

choice between using an appliance to create space, and pulling teeth.

Which would be more dangerous for a child on the spectrum? If one is

chelating (we are not), is orthodonture out of the question?

I'm exploring this, but it will take time. Anyone else have any

thoughts?

This seems like a pretty basic question.

[Guest guest]

My daughter (not autistic) had surgery at 3 mos (cleft lip) and woke up

screaming and in an absolute panic (what a surprise). My son (pdd_nos) had

hernia (hydrocele) repair at age 2-1/2 and also woke up screaming and in an

absolute panic. My daughter has surgery again at age 5 in a couple of weeks, so

I'll let everyone know if I notice a difference.

The only oddity with my son is that when they gave him the 'sleepy juice' prior

to the anesthesia, we had to keep a very close eye on him because even though

his muscles were relaxed, he was trying desperately to maintain his normal

hyperactive self. Another thing to note was that he was up and recovered within

about 3 hours of the surgery. He literally ran down the street to get the mail

when we got home. No rest time for us!

Good luck

mykidsmom47201 <kjwolford@...> wrote:

I have read/heard many times that our kids respond differently to

anesthetic drugs. We had a close call Saturday evening thinking our

son may have been having an appendicitis attach...so I realize I need

to better understand this in case we are ever faced with an emergancy

that requires anesthesia and I have to explain this to the doc.

So, here's my question: do they really respond " differently " than

typical kids, OR, is it that many times our kids get so excited with

the process leading up to the actual induction that the anesthetic is

having to override a " natural " excitatory phase/response that causes

anesthesia to be more complicated - as it would with any individual

who becomes highly excited prior to being anesthetized?

If the latter is the case, then IF we can keep our kids calm prior to

anesthesia, do they respond in a typical manner? Thus, it is not the

agent/drug that should be the focus of attention assuming we can keep

them calm prior to recieving any drug.

If it is indeed the drug that we have to be careful of, can someone

tell me what classes of anesthetic drugs to use, or avoid?

Thanks,

Kim

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

With my son, who is extremely anxious...This is our experience with

the dentist. When they gave him a liquid pre anesthetic he went out

like a light before they did major work.

Then the next time when we wanted to try doing some minor work while

he was awake..he was given an adult dose of valium 45 minutes before

hand but since he knew where he was going and he knew he would be

awake for this one. He was whinny on the med but it didn't sedate

him in the least. After getting through what would have been a

piece of cake...he immediately fell asleep on the car ride home for

upwards of two hours. I believe his brain or maybe it was the

adrenaline over-rode that valium. But then again my son's

noredrenaline levels are twice as high as the normal limit according

to an OAT test.

C.F.

> I have read/heard many times that our kids respond differently to

> anesthetic drugs. We had a close call Saturday evening thinking

our

> son may have been having an appendicitis attach...so I realize I

need

> to better understand this in case we are ever faced with an

emergancy

> that requires anesthesia and I have to explain this to the doc.

>

> So, here's my question: do they really respond " differently " than

> typical kids, OR, is it that many times our kids get so excited

with

> the process leading up to the actual induction that the anesthetic

is

> having to override a " natural " excitatory phase/response that

causes

> anesthesia to be more complicated - as it would with any

individual

> who becomes highly excited prior to being anesthetized?

>

> If the latter is the case, then IF we can keep our kids calm prior

to

> anesthesia, do they respond in a typical manner? Thus, it is not

the

> agent/drug that should be the focus of attention assuming we can

keep

> them calm prior to recieving any drug.

>

> If it is indeed the drug that we have to be careful of, can

someone

> tell me what classes of anesthetic drugs to use, or avoid?

>

> Thanks,

> Kim

[Guest guest]

Do you know what they gave him? When we had to have an MRI, I

specifically asked that they administer Verced. Verced is now commonly

used for pediatric anesthesia. It's an amnesiac and it worked

extremely well for us. There were no side-effects. You might want to

discuss that with your anesthesiologist.

--

Rima Regas

Mom to Leah, age 7 (AS, DSI and APD)

http://www.sensoryintegrationhelp.com

On 5/24/05, McTaggart <jen_mctaggart@...> wrote:

> My daughter (not autistic) had surgery at 3 mos (cleft lip) and woke up

> screaming and in an absolute panic (what a surprise). My son (pdd_nos) had

> hernia (hydrocele) repair at age 2-1/2 and also woke up screaming and in an

> absolute panic. My daughter has surgery again at age 5 in a couple of

> weeks, so I'll let everyone know if I notice a difference.

>

> The only oddity with my son is that when they gave him the 'sleepy juice'

> prior to the anesthesia, we had to keep a very close eye on him because even

> though his muscles were relaxed, he was trying desperately to maintain his

> normal hyperactive self. Another thing to note was that he was up and

> recovered within about 3 hours of the surgery. He literally ran down the

> street to get the mail when we got home. No rest time for us!

>

> Good luck

>

>

> mykidsmom47201 <kjwolford@...> wrote:

> I have read/heard many times that our kids respond differently to

> anesthetic drugs. We had a close call Saturday evening thinking our

> son may have been having an appendicitis attach...so I realize I need

> to better understand this in case we are ever faced with an emergancy

> that requires anesthesia and I have to explain this to the doc.

>

> So, here's my question: do they really respond " differently " than

> typical kids, OR, is it that many times our kids get so excited with

> the process leading up to the actual induction that the anesthetic is

> having to override a " natural " excitatory phase/response that causes

> anesthesia to be more complicated - as it would with any individual

> who becomes highly excited prior to being anesthetized?

>

> If the latter is the case, then IF we can keep our kids calm prior to

> anesthesia, do they respond in a typical manner? Thus, it is not the

> agent/drug that should be the focus of attention assuming we can keep

> them calm prior to recieving any drug.

>

> If it is indeed the drug that we have to be careful of, can someone

> tell me what classes of anesthetic drugs to use, or avoid?

>

> Thanks,

> Kim

[Guest guest]

I am glad this question has come up, BC we went though some tough

decisions

over 3 years ago when my son had to have some dental work due to

major decay.

Thank God I knew of using a composite. My son was given the sleepy

juice

and had to be put under. We had found a very good pediatric dentist,

who

works with children with disabilities. But because all of my

concerns and

his asthma she elected to do this in a hospital. The work was said

to be 1

hour and recovery about an hour. Everything went smooth we were

there

no more than we had to be.

I know my son needs to have some maintenance to prevent

further decay in his mouth. He needs a little work of building back

up

the composites that wore off his 2-3 teeth .

They are all baby teeth he is 7yo, pretty much going to be falling

out within next year or so.

However he might need some additional work on some in the back as

well.

I have found a dentist that is willing to work with us if my son

becomes

uncooperative, which he will if he feels threatened in any way.

Trust

me it takes 6 people to get 1 small vial of blood. . (Another story).

I am not kidding that is why we don't do those anymore.

Please excuse me for asking within some ones post ,

I would like opinion BC I don't even trust the dentist any more.

We are told it is important to fill the decay even in a baby tooth

to

prevent adult tooth from damage.

Is this 100% true statement?

We were told about just using nitrous oxide, does anyone have

experience with this?

And the patent is still conscious correct?

What would you recommend to give with the least allergic reaction?

What else would be my options?

I know Rima mentions Verced is now commonly used for pediatric

anesthesia.

Does this knock the child totally out or is the patient aware in any

way of their surrounding.

I just don't know how to approach this because I suspect my son

will

NOT let them touch him if he is conscious.

Sorry to ask these types of Q's because I have never experienced

this, have never even had a cavity until I was 37 and that was 20

seconds worth of drilling.

Thanks

Kenny V

[Guest guest]

We've done the nitrous oxyde too. The patient is awake but not really

aware. I'd go with that first, if it's just for pulling a tooth. If

it's for more than that, then I would go with Verced. With Verced, the

patient is asleep but aware. Since it's an amnesiac, they remember

nothing, which is especially good for MRI's which are very noisy,

especially to someone who is autistic. Verced can be administered by

mouth as well as through IV.

In either case, I think he would be incapacitated enough not to be

able to react by swatting the doctor's hand away from him. Once he's

under the influence, you could restrain his arms just in case.

I would go for least invasive first and only go for the big guns if

you really, really have to.

Rima

On 5/24/05, kenny V <KEN@...> wrote:

> I am glad this question has come up, BC we went though some tough

> decisions

> over 3 years ago when my son had to have some dental work due to

> major decay.

> Thank God I knew of using a composite. My son was given the sleepy

> juice

> and had to be put under. We had found a very good pediatric dentist,

> who

> works with children with disabilities. But because all of my

> concerns and

[Guest guest]

---

Rima thanks for your input, when you say.

> We've done the nitrous oxyde too. The patient is awake but not

really

> aware. I'd go with that first, if it's just for pulling a tooth. If

> it's for more than that, then I would go with Verced.

Than that also would be find for doing general dental work such

building up teeth with composites correct?

Are their any reports of allergic reactions?

And you have mentioned.

With . Verced can be administered by

> mouth as well as through IV.

>

How would that be administered by mouth (drug), or by mask?

Forget the IV.

We don't do needle's anymore. B12's only exception.

Thanks once again for you comments.

I don't want this to be a bad experience, My son if he feels

threatened….. " Look out "

Just need to know prior what to expect that way I can plan how to

accommodate him to make it a smooth transition.

That is why I have an agreement with who is doing the work.

NOT to be in charge until he is under.

And to be patient and prepared to stop what he is doing prior to this.

I know my son all to well .

kenny V

[Guest guest]

On 5/25/05, kenny V <KEN@...> wrote:

> ---

> Rima thanks for your input, when you say.

>

>

> > We've done the nitrous oxyde too. The patient is awake but not

> really

> > aware. I'd go with that first, if it's just for pulling a tooth. If

> > it's for more than that, then I would go with Verced.

>

>

> Than that also would be find for doing general dental work such

> building up teeth with composites correct?

Well, I guess if you cannot transition him into doing this without any

anesthesia, then yes. The way we work it here for bloodwork, or

anovocaine shot (she has no cavities) is that we tell her a couple of

weeks in advance and remind her almost daily. She knows she can

squeeze our hand while the needle goes in. If she has any anxieties

about it, she is encouraged to talk about it. We do social stories as

well.

>

> Are their any reports of allergic reactions?

>

None that I've ever heard of. Verced is the only anesthesia that I can

use. I have a problem with narcotics.

>

>

> And you have mentioned.

>

> With . Verced can be administered by

> > mouth as well as through IV.

> >

>

>

> How would that be administered by mouth (drug), or by mask?

It's a liquid.

--

Rima Regas

Mom to Leah, age 7 (AS, DSI and APD)

http://www.sensoryintegrationhelp.com

[Guest guest]

They respond differently, the differences are individual, generally

you want the anesthesiologist to treat them like they have a sick

liver and don't handle any of the anesthetics that are hard on the

liver very well.

In an emergency situation you are going to have to be VERY forceful to

get them to behave - tell them your concern, ask what the choices are

and how they differ from the regular approach, if the anesthesiologist

blows you off ask to have another one replace him or her and write in

the chart they ignored important medical information that makes your

child at risk for adverse reactions to anesthesia.

Andy . . . . . . .

> I have read/heard many times that our kids respond differently to

> anesthetic drugs. We had a close call Saturday evening thinking our

> son may have been having an appendicitis attach...so I realize I need

> to better understand this in case we are ever faced with an emergancy

> that requires anesthesia and I have to explain this to the doc.

>

> So, here's my question: do they really respond " differently " than

> typical kids, OR, is it that many times our kids get so excited with

> the process leading up to the actual induction that the anesthetic is

> having to override a " natural " excitatory phase/response that causes

> anesthesia to be more complicated - as it would with any individual

> who becomes highly excited prior to being anesthetized?

>

> If the latter is the case, then IF we can keep our kids calm prior to

> anesthesia, do they respond in a typical manner? Thus, it is not the

> agent/drug that should be the focus of attention assuming we can keep

> them calm prior to recieving any drug.

>

> If it is indeed the drug that we have to be careful of, can someone

> tell me what classes of anesthetic drugs to use, or avoid?

>

> Thanks,

> Kim