Re: OT: Sleep Issues! Help!!

[Guest guest]

I would give him Co-q-10 in the morning. It helps straighten out the brain

chemistry -- it is the co enzyme for melatonin and will counteract the tendency

melatonin has to make him sleep all day.

And I began training my oldest child when he was 2 years old to entertain

himself quietly during the night when he had insomnia. By age 4 1/2, I would put

in a long cartoon video tape for him to watch, turn the volume low, and set out

a snack and drink for him.

Michele in California

calif.michele@...

webmaster@...

Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com

It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that he does not

really need a college. He can learn them from books. The value of an education

in a liberal arts college is not learning of many facts but the training of the

mind to think something that cannot be learned from textbooks.

-Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

We use 3 mg of Kirkman's Melatonin Plus before bedtime. We also give our

son .05 mg of Clonidine for sleep. It's a prescription that our DAN! writes

for us. We suffered for years with the sort of sleep deprivation you

described. Getting him to sleep through the night was a true victory for

us. The entire family suffers, as well as the affected child.

Hope this helps,

Pamela

" Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless

you're scared. "

Eddie Rickenbacker, top US fighter ace, WWI

_____

From: weya98 [mailto:weya98@...]

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:47 PM

Subject: [ ] OT: Sleep Issues! Help!!

Has anyone had to resort to using sleep aids (pills or something) with

their kids?

I'm just about at the end of my rope here. I've been trying to solve

my son's recent sleeping problems as benignly as possible. He used to

be an awesome sleeper. Now he's like manic boy. He's 4.5 years old

and sleeping less hours a night, in 2 blocks of time, than I need in a

night. This has been going on since his grandmother went to the

hospital at the end of February. At that time, he had a complete

breakdown of all routines both school (he was home sick), therapy (OT

was sick & then he was sick), and home (his father was at the hospital

every day for almost a week). He unraveled ... stims, tantrums,

screaming, SIB, and the sleep problems started. The stims are better,

the SIB is gone, frustrated screaming pretty much gone but the sleep

problems have continued since then.

He's been going to bed at 7-8pm (that's his normal time) and then

waking up between midnight & 2am. He stays awake until about 3-4am

(depending upon when he woke up), then falls back asleep for another

hour or two, arising for the day between 5 & 6am. All attempts at

keeping him up later to get rid of the awake period have failed. He

still wakes up. He stays in his bedroom (except for the multiple

visits to my bed) and he's yawning but he's awake. He talks and sings

at the top of his lungs while laying in his bed. He runs shrieking

from my bedroom back to his bedroom when I tell him to go back to bed.

It's just this nightly gauntlet that we've been running.

I'm exhausted. His twin sister is like the walking dead because she

doesn't sleep well while he's in his bedroom singing/chattering at the

top of his lungs or screaming because I told him to go back to bed.

She is a normal 4.5yo and needs a normal 10-13 hours of sleep and

isn't getting it.

I tried Benadryl, with the hope that making him sleepy for a couple of

nights would break the cycle of being awake for 2-4 hours every night

in the middle of the night. It made him puke violently ... for hours.

So we moved to Melatonin. That worked for a few nights. But now

we're having the breakthrough waking off and on again ... and worse

it's also screwing with when he's tired and wants to go to bed (making

it earlier and earlier or wanting to nap during the day).

Last night he fell asleep at 6pm (despite all attempts to keep him

up). He was back awake at midnight .... until 4:30am, omg. And then

back up for the day at 6:30am. Needless to say, I'm sitting here

trying to run on about 3.5 hours of sleep taken in two blocks (1.5

hours until midnight and then the other 2 hours between 4:30 & 6:30).

My daughter is walking around like a zombie and crying at everything

so I know she's as tired as I feel. My son, otoh, is bouncing off the

walls with stimmy gleeful shrieks this morning. (which is why I said

" manic " above)

I've looked at changes in what we're doing, eating, etc. The only big

changes have been the routine breakdown I described above and then a

developmental increase with how much he's interacting with his

environment after the last round of chelation a few weeks ago.

I hate to resort to meds but omg, I can't function on 2-3 hours of

sleep a night in one hour intervals. I can't even think straight to

work on problem solving this. I have no clue what options there are

and I'm wary of just calling the doctor and saying " pill him! " without

understanding it all. At the same time, this cannot continue. It's

detrimental to all of us. I often bite the bullet and sacrifice

myself but my daughter shouldn't be trying to live like this. She

looks awful this morning and school is seeing the effects too

(irritable, unable to focus, falling asleep, etc).

Help!!!!

Debbie

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing. My son has always been a good sleeper until this past

month. So I've been in a sort of sleep-deprived panic trying to resolve it

as naturally as possible before resorting to something stronger.

But if we have to go to something like clonidine -- well I was initially

resistant to the idea until I realized just how badly this sleep issue was

affecting our daughter. She sacrifices a helluva lot because of her twin. I

can't ask her to sacrifice her health and well-being too. I now have

clonidine in my " this can't go on much longer, we have to do something " list

of things to try (I had forgotten about it).

Debbie

On Apr 1, 2005 5:14 PM, Pamela Leigh <pamelaleigh@...> wrote:

>

>

> We use 3 mg of Kirkman's Melatonin Plus before bedtime. We also give our

> son .05 mg of Clonidine for sleep. It's a prescription that our DAN!

> writes

> for us. We suffered for years with the sort of sleep deprivation you

> described. Getting him to sleep through the night was a true victory for

> us. The entire family suffers, as well as the affected child.

>

> Hope this helps,

> Pamela

>

[Guest guest]

You are damned if you do damned if ya don't. Medications can help but with all

the side effects you have to really weigh the facts. Doctors who are vender's

for these drugs always tell you that the good the drugs will do will out weigh

the side effects. Buyer beware!

When our son was 12 he had some behavioral issues (home issues that we didn't

seem to take notice of like having my husbands 85 year old Grandma come live

with us. This will effect your kids people! Sounds like a " da " moment but I did

fail to recognize how traumatic that can be for kids, especially when my son

lost his room to the old bird and he had to sleep on the couch! We also had

moved to accommodate Grandma so we had changed school districts as well. The new

IEP did not include an aide and he was in a full inclusion class for fourth

grade!, not a good thing!)

We took him to a pediatric neurologist and he prescribed Zoloft. My son gained

50 pounds! Along with the stresses that were happening at home and school he

gained a ton of weight. When I called the doctor to take him off he advised me

not to but to add more medicines!

I went to yet another doctor and decided to tackle his attention deficit problem

and they suggested Adderall, well he lost most of the weight which was

frightening (never heard him say he was full for two years!) But developed a

sound sensitivity you wouldn't believe! We were prisoners in our home because we

could never go in public places like the mall or farmers markets......bar-b-ques

with other families! The sound of an infant crying would send him through the

roof! When it would happen he would get red in the face,start sweating and let

iout the loudest scream at the top of his lungs! He became almost beast like!

Our other son was so traumatized that he was afraid to go out with his brother

for a very long time. I was afraid to take him even to the market or places like

Target (the worst for him because of all the babies!)

Even now at 16, we get a bit concerned if people don't quite their kids fast

enough. Some people just let their kids cry like it was nothing and that would

make me want to pull my hair out.I need Zoloft then myself!...kidding!

I have to say things have quieted down and our lives are much more settled. It

also helps that our son with Autism has matured in ways that I didn't expect! He

can reason now and I always try to explain to him why things are done they way

they are. It does get better people!

I always put my husband and kids first above other people. We have a firm and

reliable schedule that we for the most part stick to. Like bedtimes, its eight

thirty on school nights. When they were little I would bathe them, give them a

bottle, read a story. Have our home quite and peaceful with nothing loud or

disturbing on TV and we all would be low key. Of course being the Spaz that I

was, that if anyone would call or come over after a certain time I would freak

out. I was very stressed back then.

Sleep issues are still a problem but it's better sometimes. I allow him to have

a TV in his room and sometimes he turns it off at night and sometimes I have to

keep going in there and remind him. Lot's of things he does is like a typical

teenager folks. Sometimes I think to myself " Is this because he is Autistic or

is this a normal teenage boy thing? It is all so much easier if you just love

your kid unconditionally and give yourself a break. It will get better with the

sleep issues but I think maybe trying a regular schedule and keeping things low

key at night helps. No caffine or sugar. Think about what he is eating. Anyway

this is my story for what it's worth. PS........We had to tell Grandma to move

on

Keep in touch!

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

>

> Has anyone had to resort to using sleep aids (pills or something)

with

> their kids?

>

>

My son has severe seizures, His sleep has always been awful. He can

go three straight days with no sleep, (taking a two hour nap in the

morning) Other times he is out. I can change his diaper while hes

sleeping and he wont wake up. I think when he goes without sleep for

so long, his body crashes.

His EEG shows he does not enter stage two sleep. He is on a sleeping

pill to stop his seizures. It works for his seizures, But not for

his sleeping.

His room is proof. He has nothing in his room but his waterbed

and toys. Sometimes he is quiet and will just play in his room,

other times he wants mom to come play. I have fallen alseep in his

room trying to keep him quiet so hubby and my other son can get

thier rest only to be woken up by being hit in the head with a toy!

I would really suggest you get a sleep EEG done on your son.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Could it be yeast?

My son is a very good sleeper and always was, but when he has yeast

he tends to wake up during the night (just a few minutes, nothing

like you describe though).

>

> Has anyone had to resort to using sleep aids (pills or something)

with

> their kids?

>

> I'm just about at the end of my rope here. I've been trying to

solve

> my son's recent sleeping problems as benignly as possible. He used

to

> be an awesome sleeper. Now he's like manic boy. He's 4.5 years old

> and sleeping less hours a night, in 2 blocks of time, than I need

in a

> night. This has been going on since his grandmother went to the

> hospital at the end of February. At that time, he had a complete

> breakdown of all routines both school (he was home sick), therapy

(OT

> was sick & then he was sick), and home (his father was at the

hospital

> every day for almost a week). He unraveled ... stims, tantrums,

> screaming, SIB, and the sleep problems started. The stims are

better,

> the SIB is gone, frustrated screaming pretty much gone but the sleep

> problems have continued since then.

>

> He's been going to bed at 7-8pm (that's his normal time) and then

> waking up between midnight & 2am. He stays awake until about 3-4am

> (depending upon when he woke up), then falls back asleep for another

> hour or two, arising for the day between 5 & 6am. All attempts at

> keeping him up later to get rid of the awake period have failed. He

> still wakes up. He stays in his bedroom (except for the multiple

> visits to my bed) and he's yawning but he's awake. He talks and

sings

> at the top of his lungs while laying in his bed. He runs shrieking

> from my bedroom back to his bedroom when I tell him to go back to

bed.

> It's just this nightly gauntlet that we've been running.

>

> I'm exhausted. His twin sister is like the walking dead because she

> doesn't sleep well while he's in his bedroom singing/chattering at

the

> top of his lungs or screaming because I told him to go back to bed.

> She is a normal 4.5yo and needs a normal 10-13 hours of sleep and

> isn't getting it.

>

> I tried Benadryl, with the hope that making him sleepy for a couple

of

> nights would break the cycle of being awake for 2-4 hours every

night

> in the middle of the night. It made him puke violently ... for

hours.

>

> So we moved to Melatonin. That worked for a few nights. But now

> we're having the breakthrough waking off and on again ... and worse

> it's also screwing with when he's tired and wants to go to bed

(making

> it earlier and earlier or wanting to nap during the day).

>

> Last night he fell asleep at 6pm (despite all attempts to keep him

> up). He was back awake at midnight .... until 4:30am, omg. And

then

> back up for the day at 6:30am. Needless to say, I'm sitting here

> trying to run on about 3.5 hours of sleep taken in two blocks (1.5

> hours until midnight and then the other 2 hours between 4:30 &

6:30).

> My daughter is walking around like a zombie and crying at

everything

> so I know she's as tired as I feel. My son, otoh, is bouncing off

the

> walls with stimmy gleeful shrieks this morning. (which is why I

said

> " manic " above)

>

> I've looked at changes in what we're doing, eating, etc. The only

big

> changes have been the routine breakdown I described above and then a

> developmental increase with how much he's interacting with his

> environment after the last round of chelation a few weeks ago.

>

> I hate to resort to meds but omg, I can't function on 2-3 hours of

> sleep a night in one hour intervals. I can't even think straight to

> work on problem solving this. I have no clue what options there are

> and I'm wary of just calling the doctor and saying " pill him! "

without

> understanding it all. At the same time, this cannot continue. It's

> detrimental to all of us. I often bite the bullet and sacrifice

> myself but my daughter shouldn't be trying to live like this. She

> looks awful this morning and school is seeing the effects too

> (irritable, unable to focus, falling asleep, etc).

>

> Help!!!!

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

We're constantly battling yeast ... though after doing many rounds of

chelation its better than it was. The state of his poops.hasn't changed (to

the naked eye anyway) in the past month or so. I suppose that doesn't mean

that the flora population hasn't changed around in his intestines. I don't

know for sure. I'm giving him ProBio Gold like always.

Our " DAN! " doctor has suggested supplementing calcium and magnesium to help

him sleep. I'm currently waiting for the shipment from Kirkmans to arrive.

Then I'll try the mag, calcium, melatonin and CoQ10 thing and see if we can

re-establish his old healthy sleep cycles. I have GABA on my list of " other

things I can try " too (friend recommended it).

Until then, the pediatrician gave me an antihistamine to help him sleep in

the short term.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm hoping that, like every other

challenge, this too shall pass.

Debbie

On Apr 3, 2005 2:32 AM, ferdeson <ferdeson@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Could it be yeast?

>

> My son is a very good sleeper and always was, but when he has yeast

> he tends to wake up during the night (just a few minutes, nothing

> like you describe though).

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can try clonidine or tenex for sleep. My son's nuero

recommended it for my son and he is doing great on the tenex.

Clonidine was no good. It also stimulated growth hormones which I

believe are out of balance for alot of our kids.

nne

> >

> >

> >

> > Could it be yeast?

> >

> > My son is a very good sleeper and always was, but when he has

yeast

> > he tends to wake up during the night (just a few minutes, nothing

> > like you describe though).

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I give my son Valerian Tea with St. 's Worth and keeps him calm

doring the day and Sleeps well at nigth it is a wonderful thing.

You can buy also the tinctures at a Health food Store.

This is what I got from Internet, check it out.

Valeriana

Valeriana is a common perennial herb grown throughout Europe.

It may be used safely to reduce tension and anxiety, over-

excitability and hysterical states. It is calming without being

notably sedative and is practically non-addictive. In fact,

Valeriana in combination with Hypericum (St. 's Wort) has been

reported to be more effective than diazepam (i.e. Valium) in

treating symptoms of anxiety when given to 100 patients for two

weeks in a double-blind clinical trial.

It is also an effective treatment for insomnia as it will produce a

natural healing sleep. The sedative effect is due to the

valepotriates and the isovaleric acid, which is also responsible for

the characteristic smell of the extract. Documented human studies

have reported a mild hypnotic action in both normal sleepers and

insomniacs, indicated by a beneficial effect on sleep latency, wake-

time after sleep, frequency of waking, nocturnal motor activity,

inner restlessness and tension and quality of sleep.

The valepotriates have an antispasmodic action too. Valeriana does

not have an appreciable action as a pain reliever, but where pain is

associated with tension it is undoubtedly of benefit. As an

antispasmodic it will bring relief in dysmenorrhoea and it can help

in migraine and rheumatic pain. It may also be applied locally as a

treatment for cramps and other muscle tensions.

Valeriana may also be used as an expectorant to help relieve

tickling, nervous coughs. It also has a strengthening action on the

heart, and experiments indicate that it lowers blood pressure.

Tincture of valerian is reputed to clear dandruff.

Finally, Cats are attracted to valerian, which can induce a state of

ecstasy in them. Rats, too, are attracted by it. It was used in the

past by rat-catchers to bait their traps.

St. 's wort is a bushy perennial plant with numerous yellow

flowers. It is native to many parts of the world including Europe

and the United States. It is a wild growing plant in northern

California, southern Oregon and Colorado.

The plant has been used as an herbal remedy since the Middle Ages.

Many believed it to have magical powers to protect one from evil.

Early Christian mystics named the plant after the Baptist and

is traditionally collected on St. 's Day, June 25, soaked in

olive oil for days to produce a blood red anointing oil known as

the " blood of Christ. "

It has a 2,400-year history of safe and effective usage in many folk

and herbal remedies. Historically used as a nerve tonic, St. 's

wort is now widely used as a mild antidepressant. It is a potent

antiviral and antibacterial that is being investigated as a

treatment for AIDS.

One of the best herbs for mood elevation is St. 's wort. Several

controlled studies have shown positive results in treating patients

with mild to moderate depression. Improvement was shown with

symptoms of sadness, helplessness, hopelessness, anxiety, headache

and exhaustion with no reported side effects.

Its action is based on the ability of the active ingredient,

hypericin to inhibit the breakdown of neurotransmitters in the

brain. The herb also inhibits monoamine oxidase (MAO) and works as a

serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI); both are actions similar to

drugs prescribed for depression. In Germany, nearly half of

depression, anxiety, and sleep disorders are treated with hypericin.

St. 's wort should not be taken with any other antidepressants,

it is not effective for severe depression, and no one should stop

taking any prescribed medications for depression without proper

medical care.

St. 's wort has been administered in the treatment of many

illnesses. The most well known action of St. 's wort is in

repairing nerve damage and reducing pain and inflammation. The herb

has been used to relieve menstrual cramping, sciatica, and

arthritis. It has a favorable action on the secretion of bile and

thus soothes the digestive system.

The blossoms have been used in folk medicine to relieve ulcers,

gastritis, diarrhea and nausea. St. 's wort can also be

effective in the treatment of incontinence and bed-wetting in

children. Externally it is used on cuts as a disinfectant and to

relieve inflammation and promote healing. The oil can be applied to

sprains, bruises and varicose veins. Folk medicine has also has used

it as a treatment for cancer.

The active constituents in the herb (there are over 50) include

hypericin and pseudohypericin, flavonoids, tannins and procyanidins.

The tannins are responsible for the astringent effect for wound

healing. Hypericin increases capillary blood flow and is a MAO

inhibitor.

There are many studies documenting the clinical effects of hypericum

as an antidepressant treatment similar to several synthetic

antidepressants, but with a minimum of side effects. Hypericin has

been demonstrated to increase theta waves in the brain. Theta waves

normally occur during sleep and have been associated with deep

meditation, serene pleasure and heightened creative activity. St.

's wort effectually may improve perception and clarify thinking

processes.

There have been incidences of photosensitization as a side effect in

animals. Anyone who is hypersensitive to sunlight or is taking other

photosensitizing drugs should be cautious.

Parts Used: Herb tops and flowers. Used as a tea, extract, oil and

in tablet form.

Common Use: St. 's wort has been used traditionally as an herbal

treatment for anxiety and depression. It is an effective astringent

that promotes wound healing and has antiviral properties that can

counter herpes simplex, flu viruses and is being investigated as a

treatment for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS).

Note: If you are pregnant or lactating or taking anti-depressants

like Prozac, check with your physician before taking St. 's

wort. St. 's Wort is known to interfere with a number of

prescription medications, including anticoagulants, oral

contraceptives, antidepressants, anti-seizure medications, drugs to

treat HIV or prevent transplant rejection. The above statements have

not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose,

treat, cure or prevent any disease.

>

> Has anyone had to resort to using sleep aids (pills or something)

with

> their kids?

>

> I'm just about at the end of my rope here. I've been trying to

solve

> my son's recent sleeping problems as benignly as possible. He

used to

> be an awesome sleeper. Now he's like manic boy. He's 4.5 years

old

> and sleeping less hours a night, in 2 blocks of time, than I need

in a

> night. This has been going on since his grandmother went to the

> hospital at the end of February. At that time, he had a complete

> breakdown of all routines both school (he was home sick), therapy

(OT

> was sick & then he was sick), and home (his father was at the

hospital

> every day for almost a week). He unraveled ... stims, tantrums,

> screaming, SIB, and the sleep problems started. The stims are

better,

> the SIB is gone, frustrated screaming pretty much gone but the

sleep

> problems have continued since then.

>

> He's been going to bed at 7-8pm (that's his normal time) and then

> waking up between midnight & 2am. He stays awake until about 3-4am

> (depending upon when he woke up), then falls back asleep for

another

> hour or two, arising for the day between 5 & 6am. All attempts at

> keeping him up later to get rid of the awake period have failed.

He

> still wakes up. He stays in his bedroom (except for the multiple

> visits to my bed) and he's yawning but he's awake. He talks and

sings

> at the top of his lungs while laying in his bed. He runs shrieking

> from my bedroom back to his bedroom when I tell him to go back to

bed.

> It's just this nightly gauntlet that we've been running.

>

> I'm exhausted. His twin sister is like the walking dead because

she

> doesn't sleep well while he's in his bedroom singing/chattering at

the

> top of his lungs or screaming because I told him to go back to

bed.

> She is a normal 4.5yo and needs a normal 10-13 hours of sleep and

> isn't getting it.

>

> I tried Benadryl, with the hope that making him sleepy for a

couple of

> nights would break the cycle of being awake for 2-4 hours every

night

> in the middle of the night. It made him puke violently ... for

hours.

>

> So we moved to Melatonin. That worked for a few nights. But now

> we're having the breakthrough waking off and on again ... and worse

> it's also screwing with when he's tired and wants to go to bed

(making

> it earlier and earlier or wanting to nap during the day).

>

> Last night he fell asleep at 6pm (despite all attempts to keep him

> up). He was back awake at midnight .... until 4:30am, omg. And

then

> back up for the day at 6:30am. Needless to say, I'm sitting here

> trying to run on about 3.5 hours of sleep taken in two blocks (1.5

> hours until midnight and then the other 2 hours between 4:30 &

6:30).

> My daughter is walking around like a zombie and crying at

everything

> so I know she's as tired as I feel. My son, otoh, is bouncing off

the

> walls with stimmy gleeful shrieks this morning. (which is why I

said

> " manic " above)

>

> I've looked at changes in what we're doing, eating, etc. The only

big

> changes have been the routine breakdown I described above and then

a

> developmental increase with how much he's interacting with his

> environment after the last round of chelation a few weeks ago.

>

> I hate to resort to meds but omg, I can't function on 2-3 hours of

> sleep a night in one hour intervals. I can't even think straight

to

> work on problem solving this. I have no clue what options there

are

> and I'm wary of just calling the doctor and saying " pill him! "

without

> understanding it all. At the same time, this cannot continue.

It's

> detrimental to all of us. I often bite the bullet and sacrifice

> myself but my daughter shouldn't be trying to live like this. She

> looks awful this morning and school is seeing the effects too

> (irritable, unable to focus, falling asleep, etc).

>

> Help!!!!

>

> Debbie