Re: ANDY/Strength of chelators- R-alpha lipoic acid

[Guest guest]

I was wondering if anyone has used R-alpha lipoic acid which is

supposed to be twice as strong as alpha lipoic. We've been using

50mg. of alpha lipoic acid every 2 1/2 hours (3 days on, 4 days off)

for about 5 weeks. If the R-lipoic acid is twice as strong, would it

move more mercury? I guess I'd rather hear from others who took it

before I try it on my own in case it's too strong to chelate with.

Sharon K.

-- In , " Cochran "

<Ladyshrink111@p...> wrote:

> Andy:

>

>> Also, have read after others (Langford) who talk about having a

stronger chelator with ALA to move the mercury from the body. Others

on this list site that DMSA/DMPS with ALA remove 40% more mercury as

per your book. I did not find this in either of your books. Also,

consider Kerbob's recent comment that ALA needs a cover. Perhaps a

few words from you as to the advantages and disadvantages in using

ALA with and without the other chelators would help me and others

Btw wb .

>

>

[Guest guest]

R-ALA's chelation performance is unknown and I don't think it is

responsible for people to turn their kids into original medical

research projects by using it for chelation.

Andy . . . .. . . . .

> I was wondering if anyone has used R-alpha lipoic acid which is

> supposed to be twice as strong as alpha lipoic. We've been using

> 50mg. of alpha lipoic acid every 2 1/2 hours (3 days on, 4 days off)

> for about 5 weeks. If the R-lipoic acid is twice as strong, would it

> move more mercury? I guess I'd rather hear from others who took it

> before I try it on my own in case it's too strong to chelate with.

>

> Sharon K.

>

>

>

>

>

> -- In , " Cochran "

> <Ladyshrink111@p...> wrote:

> > Andy:

> >

> >> Also, have read after others (Langford) who

has no clue about anything technical such as this.

> talk about having a

> stronger chelator with ALA

ALA actually is the stronger chelator. The DMPS or DMSA is there to

bias mass transfer and prevent back diffusion.

> to move the mercury from the body. Others

> on this list site that DMSA/DMPS with ALA remove 40% more mercury as

> per your book. I did not find this in either of your books.

It is a statement on the lists, not in the book, and is the maximum

amount they can in theory help accellerate brain clearance. In

practice they won't do that well.

> Also,

> consider Kerbob's recent comment that ALA needs a cover. Perhaps a

> few words from you as to the advantages and disadvantages in using

> ALA with and without the other chelators would help me and others

> Btw wb .

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Andy:

If DMSA/DMPS with ALA prevents " back diffusion " would it be your opinion that it

is safer to use DMSA/DMPS with the ALA?

If neutropenia would occur with the dmsa, how quickly might it happen, or when

would you suggest testing for it after you start? Also, what symptoms might you

see, if any?

Thanks for your previous answers. They were helpful.

[ ] Re: ANDY/Strength of chelators- R-alpha lipoic acid

R-ALA's chelation performance is unknown and I don't think it is

responsible for people to turn their kids into original medical

research projects by using it for chelation.

Andy . . . .. . . . .

> I was wondering if anyone has used R-alpha lipoic acid which is

> supposed to be twice as strong as alpha lipoic. We've been using

> 50mg. of alpha lipoic acid every 2 1/2 hours (3 days on, 4 days off)

> for about 5 weeks. If the R-lipoic acid is twice as strong, would it

> move more mercury? I guess I'd rather hear from others who took it

> before I try it on my own in case it's too strong to chelate with.

>

> Sharon K.

>

>

>

>

>

> -- In , " Cochran "

> <Ladyshrink111@p...> wrote:

> > Andy:

> >

> >> Also, have read after others (Langford) who

has no clue about anything technical such as this.

> talk about having a

> stronger chelator with ALA

ALA actually is the stronger chelator. The DMPS or DMSA is there to

bias mass transfer and prevent back diffusion.

> to move the mercury from the body. Others

> on this list site that DMSA/DMPS with ALA remove 40% more mercury as

> per your book. I did not find this in either of your books.

It is a statement on the lists, not in the book, and is the maximum

amount they can in theory help accellerate brain clearance. In

practice they won't do that well.

> Also,

> consider Kerbob's recent comment that ALA needs a cover. Perhaps a

> few words from you as to the advantages and disadvantages in using

> ALA with and without the other chelators would help me and others

> Btw wb .

> >

> >

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> Andy:

>

> If DMSA/DMPS with ALA prevents " back diffusion " would it be your opinion that

it is safer to use DMSA/DMPS with the ALA?

This is not really clear. Theoretically, yes, but practical experience

suggests that reality is more complex than soley the mass transfer

based theoretical considerations and in some cases ALA alone is

superior or equal.

> If neutropenia would occur with the dmsa, how quickly might it happen,

Depends on dose and on administration frequency. 10 mg/kg every 8

hours (official DAN! protocol), quickly. Days. Even frequent testing

is not all that helpful.

<=1 mg/kg every 4 hours, slowly, becomes apparent from yeast, sinuses,

etc. long before it is dangerous, testing doesn't seem necessary.

>.or when would you suggest testing for it after you start? Also, what

symptoms might you see, if any?

[Guest guest]

I used some caps that are a mix of R-lipoic and standard ALA for a

couple of rounds after my Kirkman ALA ran out. I've found they are

less effective than standard ALA and tend to produce more side-

effects (temporary but still upsetting side-effects). Stick with ALA.

I've re-ordered some Kirkman hypoallergenic ALA and have binned the

R-lipoic

Steve

[Guest guest]

My son will be starting Round 4 tomorrow but his first round with

both DMSA and ALA. The 2 bottles of ALA I have both say they contain

R and S ALA. The brands are Dr Vera's and Bioceuticals (LIPOEC). are

these likely to contain the less effective stuff. TIA.

Mandy

> I used some caps that are a mix of R-lipoic and standard ALA for a

> couple of rounds after my Kirkman ALA ran out. I've found they are

> less effective than standard ALA and tend to produce more side-

> effects (temporary but still upsetting side-effects). Stick with

ALA.

>

> I've re-ordered some Kirkman hypoallergenic ALA and have binned the

> R-lipoic

>

> Steve

[Guest guest]

Dr Vera's was the brand I had problems with.

A lot of brands seem to be including both types of lipioic aicd

nowadays.

Steve

>

> My son will be starting Round 4 tomorrow but his first round with

> both DMSA and ALA. The 2 bottles of ALA I have both say they

contain

> R and S ALA. The brands are Dr Vera's and Bioceuticals (LIPOEC).

are

> these likely to contain the less effective stuff. TIA.

> Mandy

>

> > I used some caps that are a mix of R-lipoic and standard ALA

for a

> > couple of rounds after my Kirkman ALA ran out. I've found they

are

> > less effective than standard ALA and tend to produce more side-

> > effects (temporary but still upsetting side-effects). Stick with

> ALA.

> >

> > I've re-ordered some Kirkman hypoallergenic ALA and have binned

the

> > R-lipoic

> >

> > Steve

[Guest guest]

Important note:

In technical terms, regular lipoic acid is a 50/50 mixture of R and S

lipoic acid.

If the stuff lists both RS lipoic acid and R lipoic acid, so that it is

claiming it has more than 50% in the R form, it is a mixture of the R

form and the regular form. If it just says it has X amount of ALA with

X/2 amount of R form ALA then the vendor is doing good marketing but

still selling the plain old regular stuff.

Andy . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

Based on Andy's last post in this thread, we just had a bad round

and the Dr Vera's is probably OK, Mandy. I would give it a go at a

low dose.

But we did have a bad experience chelating with Doctor's Best R-

Lipoic Acid (two rounds). Nothing permanent or serious, but they

were unpleasant rounds that seemed to produce no worthwhile results.

Steve