Re: [} fish oil

[Guest guest]

My son is 4 and 48 pounds with PDD NOS and apraxia. I have read that fish

oil can thin a child's blood. I don't want to give him to much for fear of

doing something that could potentially cause a problem. He has been taking 2

Pro EFA and I just within the last two weeks added one Pro EFA. I know some

people have gone much higher than this. Does anyone know if it is dangerous to

go any higher. Someone said they give their child 6 capsules, that seems

like too much to me, but I don't know, I know each child is different. Also,

can fish oil make a child's skin break out with a few pimples????

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

No one can tell you the answer because every child is different.

There are ways to check platelet levels. Fish oil , or at least the

type we used, was problematic. The platelet level thing was not a

concern at the time because my kids platelet levels were high.

>

> My son is 4 and 48 pounds with PDD NOS and apraxia. I have read

that fish

> oil can thin a child's blood. I don't want to give him to much

for fear of

> doing something that could potentially cause a problem. He has

been taking 2

> Pro EFA and I just within the last two weeks added one Pro EFA. I

know some

> people have gone much higher than this. Does anyone know if it is

dangerous to

> go any higher. Someone said they give their child 6 capsules,

that seems

> like too much to me, but I don't know, I know each child is

different. Also,

> can fish oil make a child's skin break out with a few pimples????

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The worst side effect is when the EFAs don't work. EFAs do work for

almost all the children here -check the archives or better yet join

a local support group. Again that is when you will see what really

works. Here's a recent message you may have missed on your concern

about blood thinning -it's a myth since fish oils are a natural

blood thinner. When we were interviewed for a PBS documentary on

fish oils the directors were searching for the downside...and

couldn't find any.

" CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

Mass 02114, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

4632570 & dopt=Abstract

Re: MRI Fish Oil - Question

Colleen -this may be like not swimming for at least one hour after

you eat rule found to be myth that kept a bunch of hot kids out of

the water!

http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/hourwait.asp :

Unlike pizza and doughnut oil -fish oils come with lots of

fears -mostly unwarrented ones.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

And before surgery -to be or not to be on the oils,

that's still the question.

There's actually an unofficial look into surgery and mega high

dosages of fish oils. The largest group of people prescribed to be

on high dosages of fish oils daily by their MDs are those with heart

disease. Those with diagnosed heart disease also happen to be the

group who may have no chance to stop the fish oils prior to surgery

due to say emergency open heart surgery...and yet there are no cases

of hemorrhaging for those taking the high dosages of fish oils as

per Dr. Stoll (read Dr. Stoll's quote below) and Dr.

(quote below as well) In addition as you will read

below in one of the archives my own Mom went in for open heart

surgery and her heart surgeon told her she did not have to stop

taking her fish oils prior -and my Mom (reported by those in the

operating room) had very little bleeding during surgery, and for

sure she healed much faster than the norm. This is probably because

fish oil is not like man made blood thinners -it works with the body

as needed.

Here's a small quote from a much larger article from the Saturday

Evening Post. An interview with Dr. Stoll:

" Post: Is there a downside to supplementing with omega-3?

Dr. Stoll: There isn't. Some people may experience GI distress if

they take a large amount of a low-quality supplement. But the

highest good-quality fish oil is not rancid and has little or no

taste and has no side effects. Another issue that people worry about

is bleeding, because EPA inhibits platelet aggregation. But we

scoured the scientific literature, and there has never been a

documented case of bleeding due to omega-3 fatty acids.

We recently reviewed about 18,000 people who participated in

clinical trials with omega-3s, largely in cardiology studies, and we

couldn't find one instance of bleeding in any of the trials. There

was no bleeding, even if used in IVs prescribed before and during

cardiac surgery. I think this perception is a myth because omega-3s

don't inhibit the platelets as strongly as aspirin–perhaps 60 to 70

percent as much as aspirin–and unlike aspirin, the effect is

reversible.

Post: When a patient is on blood thinners, such as coumadin, should

they exercise caution when supplementing with omega-3?

Dr. Stoll: In that situation, I usually recommend a lower dose, not

exceeding one or two grams of EPA per day. At this dosage, there

should be no effect on the action of coumadin. The unanswered

question is, together are they providing too much anticoagulation?

Nonetheless, there may be some minute risk of a negative interaction

with anticoagulants, such as warfarin (coumadin), high-dose aspirin,

or ibuprofen-like medications, based on animal data and anecdotal

reports in humans.

However, large-scale controlled clinical trials with patients

receiving omega-3 fatty acid supplements with either aspirin or

warfarin observed no cases of bleeding even after one year of the

combined treatments. It would be a shame if cardiac patients or

their physicians avoided the use of omega-3 supplements out of fear.

I am thoroughly convinced that the dramatic and lifesaving cardiac

actions of omega-3s far outweigh the very small or nonexistent risk

of bleeding. "

SOURCE: Saturday Evening Post, May/June 2005, by .

http://www.satevepost.org/issues/2005/0506/7370750.shtml

Small quote from Dr. -more below in archives:

" There is a

long-standing myth that omega-3s cause bleeding. We have used data

from 18,000 or 20,000 patients who were in clinical trials over the

years-mostly in heart disease, and there is not one case of bleeding

from omega-3s "

http://www.equazen.com/newsfile_newsletter4_contents.htm

I had my tonsils taken out in kindergarten and had to be rushed to

emergancy because I started to hemorrhage. Even though I was only

five years old I will never forget those horrible moments in my life

having a tube forced down my throat while being down, that's how I

remember it. Thing is -I was not on fish oil then. Sure there are

horror stories about surgeries - but those stories like mine are the

exception -not the rule with or without fish oil in the picture.

So far in this group this topic has come up a number of times and no

problems with bleeding reported by those that stopped or didn't stop

the oils prior to surgery. (most do stop a week before as a just in

case) Below are some archives on this, best to you and your child

during this time, and speedy recovery to her!

Here's some archives on this topic:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:20 pm

Subject: Re: QUESTION

Hi ,

Tanner never had surgery since on the EFAs in the past three years,

but about a year ago my mom was diagnosed with heart problems and

needed surgery so of course I had her go on high dosages of EFAs. My

mom informed her heart surgeon she was on the Omega 3's and he OK's

it. When she went through surgery they reported little blood loss

and that it went great (I take their word for it -wasn't there) Her

healing time was amazing and quick and she's back to teaching ball

room dance again (she's 72 -and Liz from Georgia knows -kind

of a stand up she's so funny) And yes she's still on the Omega 3/6

formula -but I'm not sure if she needs the 6 too like our kids do -or

just the 3?

Anyway -you may want to read up online about the differences between

a natural blood thinner like fish oil and a man made blood thinner

like aspirin in books like Dr. Stoll's book The Omega 3 Connection,

or read about natural blood thinners at sites like

http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art7.html .

What I hear, just like Dr. Agin states below, is stopping the EFAs a

week before the surgery -and then continuing after. Of course there

is also the other side of the coin with surgery and fish oil-there

was an article published in the Sept. 1, 2001 issue of The Lancet

stating that a supplement combination of L-arginine, omega-3 fatty

acids, and brewer's yeast helped improve post-operative recovery from

heart surgery. The patients given the supplement combination had

stronger immune response and experienced fewer post-operative

infections than patients receiving placebo.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1517000/1517318.stm

If you really don't want to stop the EFAs for a week -you can try

increasing the amount of fish sticks your child eats that week. And

if your child really misses the fishy taste of the fish oil you can

buy some Harry Potter Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans at Toys R Us

and hope you get a sack with lots of sardine flavored beans in it.

(yuck I thought it was coconut!!...well they are both the white

ones!!)

And speaking of Toys R Us and the recent posts about reading

programs -I know there are fabulous educational sites and programs

out there for learning to read and write, etc. Don't underestimate

the power of a good toy inventor (OK -so I used to do that) or

creator ( that too) to market something that is good for your child

in a way that is fun. I really respect Henson -we miss you Jim, PBS,

Nick, and Noggin for doing a great job of that -and Disney too of

course. So while you are checking out stuff online at educational

sites -like CHERAB advisor Dr. a Tallal's Fast For Word program

at http://www.scientificlearning.com which is highly recommended from

what I hear and read -have fun and browse the toy stores like Zany

Brainy, FAO Schwarz, Learning Express, and Toys R Us, etc. for

educational books, games -including electronic games like LeapFrog

http://www.leapfrog.com (never ending learning -can't beat that) -

and software. Also find a great kids library section in your own

town -or another town over and take your child to the read alongs,

etc. they schedule. Some PlayStation and Nintendo games are

educational believe it or not. They have Sesame Street, Dragon

Tales, Disney, etc.

Even videos can teach. My kids love this cheap little home video

called Operation Dalmatian Fun With Letters with the Z Meany Evil

Wizard who teases Zim Zim and his dog Zoo when they are singing the

alphabet song by mock singing " A, B, C, D, wah -wah -wah " and he

does an awful thing (don't want to give the ending away... OK just a

bit -he blows a gust of wind and sends Zim Zim's dog Zoo to A land,

and Zoo has to go through the whole alphabet to get back to Zim Zim)

You know maybe when I'm done with this nonprofit stuff I'll go back

to animation -sometimes I miss it (can you tell?)

=====

[Guest guest]

Our worst side effect was not just not working but what appeared to

be bile in poop. I was not messing with that. It disappeared after we

went off.

>

> The worst side effect is when the EFAs don't work. EFAs do work for

> almost all the children here -check the archives or better yet join

> a local support group. Again that is when you will see what really

> works. Here's a recent message you may have missed on your concern

> about blood thinning -it's a myth since fish oils are a natural

> blood thinner. When we were interviewed for a PBS documentary on

> fish oils the directors were searching for the downside...and

> couldn't find any.

> " CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their

> consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery

> disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source

> of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands

> examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and

> may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption. "

> Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology,

> Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston,

> Mass 02114, USA.

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

> 4632570 & dopt=Abstract

>

>

> Re: MRI Fish Oil - Question

>

>

> Colleen -this may be like not swimming for at least one hour after

> you eat rule found to be myth that kept a bunch of hot kids out of

> the water!

> http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/hourwait.asp :

>

> Unlike pizza and doughnut oil -fish oils come with lots of

> fears -mostly unwarrented ones.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive

>

> And before surgery -to be or not to be on the oils,

> that's still the question.

>

> There's actually an unofficial look into surgery and mega high

> dosages of fish oils. The largest group of people prescribed to be

> on high dosages of fish oils daily by their MDs are those with heart

> disease. Those with diagnosed heart disease also happen to be the

> group who may have no chance to stop the fish oils prior to surgery

> due to say emergency open heart surgery...and yet there are no cases

> of hemorrhaging for those taking the high dosages of fish oils as

> per Dr. Stoll (read Dr. Stoll's quote below) and Dr.

> (quote below as well) In addition as you will read

> below in one of the archives my own Mom went in for open heart

> surgery and her heart surgeon told her she did not have to stop

> taking her fish oils prior -and my Mom (reported by those in the

> operating room) had very little bleeding during surgery, and for

> sure she healed much faster than the norm. This is probably because

> fish oil is not like man made blood thinners -it works with the body

> as needed.

>

> Here's a small quote from a much larger article from the Saturday

> Evening Post. An interview with Dr. Stoll:

>

> " Post: Is there a downside to supplementing with omega-3?

>

> Dr. Stoll: There isn't. Some people may experience GI distress if

> they take a large amount of a low-quality supplement. But the

> highest good-quality fish oil is not rancid and has little or no

> taste and has no side effects. Another issue that people worry about

> is bleeding, because EPA inhibits platelet aggregation. But we

> scoured the scientific literature, and there has never been a

> documented case of bleeding due to omega-3 fatty acids.

>

> We recently reviewed about 18,000 people who participated in

> clinical trials with omega-3s, largely in cardiology studies, and we

> couldn't find one instance of bleeding in any of the trials. There

> was no bleeding, even if used in IVs prescribed before and during

> cardiac surgery. I think this perception is a myth because omega-3s

> don't inhibit the platelets as strongly as aspirin–perhaps 60 to 70

> percent as much as aspirin–and unlike aspirin, the effect is

> reversible.

>

> Post: When a patient is on blood thinners, such as coumadin, should

> they exercise caution when supplementing with omega-3?

>

> Dr. Stoll: In that situation, I usually recommend a lower dose, not

> exceeding one or two grams of EPA per day. At this dosage, there

> should be no effect on the action of coumadin. The unanswered

> question is, together are they providing too much anticoagulation?

>

> Nonetheless, there may be some minute risk of a negative interaction

> with anticoagulants, such as warfarin (coumadin), high-dose aspirin,

> or ibuprofen-like medications, based on animal data and anecdotal

> reports in humans.

>

> However, large-scale controlled clinical trials with patients

> receiving omega-3 fatty acid supplements with either aspirin or

> warfarin observed no cases of bleeding even after one year of the

> combined treatments. It would be a shame if cardiac patients or

> their physicians avoided the use of omega-3 supplements out of fear.

> I am thoroughly convinced that the dramatic and lifesaving cardiac

> actions of omega-3s far outweigh the very small or nonexistent risk

> of bleeding. "

> SOURCE: Saturday Evening Post, May/June 2005, by .

> http://www.satevepost.org/issues/2005/0506/7370750.shtml

>

> Small quote from Dr. -more below in archives:

>

> " There is a

> long-standing myth that omega-3s cause bleeding. We have used data

> from 18,000 or 20,000 patients who were in clinical trials over the

> years-mostly in heart disease, and there is not one case of bleeding

> from omega-3s "

> http://www.equazen.com/newsfile_newsletter4_contents.htm

>

> I had my tonsils taken out in kindergarten and had to be rushed to

> emergancy because I started to hemorrhage. Even though I was only

> five years old I will never forget those horrible moments in my life

> having a tube forced down my throat while being down, that's how I

> remember it. Thing is -I was not on fish oil then. Sure there are

> horror stories about surgeries - but those stories like mine are the

> exception -not the rule with or without fish oil in the picture.

>

> So far in this group this topic has come up a number of times and no

> problems with bleeding reported by those that stopped or didn't stop

> the oils prior to surgery. (most do stop a week before as a just in

> case) Below are some archives on this, best to you and your child

> during this time, and speedy recovery to her!

>

> Here's some archives on this topic:

>

>

> From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

> Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:20 pm

> Subject: Re: QUESTION

>

> Hi ,

>

> Tanner never had surgery since on the EFAs in the past three years,

> but about a year ago my mom was diagnosed with heart problems and

> needed surgery so of course I had her go on high dosages of EFAs. My

> mom informed her heart surgeon she was on the Omega 3's and he OK's

> it. When she went through surgery they reported little blood loss

> and that it went great (I take their word for it -wasn't there) Her

> healing time was amazing and quick and she's back to teaching ball

> room dance again (she's 72 -and Liz from Georgia knows -kind

> of a stand up she's so funny) And yes she's still on the Omega 3/6

> formula -but I'm not sure if she needs the 6 too like our kids do -

or

> just the 3?

>

> Anyway -you may want to read up online about the differences between

> a natural blood thinner like fish oil and a man made blood thinner

> like aspirin in books like Dr. Stoll's book The Omega 3 Connection,

> or read about natural blood thinners at sites like

> http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art7.html .

>

> What I hear, just like Dr. Agin states below, is stopping the EFAs a

> week before the surgery -and then continuing after. Of course there

> is also the other side of the coin with surgery and fish oil-there

> was an article published in the Sept. 1, 2001 issue of The Lancet

> stating that a supplement combination of L-arginine, omega-3 fatty

> acids, and brewer's yeast helped improve post-operative recovery

from

> heart surgery. The patients given the supplement combination had

> stronger immune response and experienced fewer post-operative

> infections than patients receiving placebo.

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1517000/1517318.stm

>

> If you really don't want to stop the EFAs for a week -you can try

> increasing the amount of fish sticks your child eats that week. And

> if your child really misses the fishy taste of the fish oil you can

> buy some Harry Potter Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans at Toys R Us

> and hope you get a sack with lots of sardine flavored beans in it.

> (yuck I thought it was coconut!!...well they are both the white

> ones!!)

>

> And speaking of Toys R Us and the recent posts about reading

> programs -I know there are fabulous educational sites and programs

> out there for learning to read and write, etc. Don't underestimate

> the power of a good toy inventor (OK -so I used to do that) or

> creator ( that too) to market something that is good for your child

> in a way that is fun. I really respect Henson -we miss you Jim, PBS,

> Nick, and Noggin for doing a great job of that -and Disney too of

> course. So while you are checking out stuff online at educational

> sites -like CHERAB advisor Dr. a Tallal's Fast For Word program

> at http://www.scientificlearning.com which is highly recommended

from

> what I hear and read -have fun and browse the toy stores like Zany

> Brainy, FAO Schwarz, Learning Express, and Toys R Us, etc. for

> educational books, games -including electronic games like LeapFrog

> http://www.leapfrog.com (never ending learning -can't beat that) -

> and software. Also find a great kids library section in your own

> town -or another town over and take your child to the read alongs,

> etc. they schedule. Some PlayStation and Nintendo games are

> educational believe it or not. They have Sesame Street, Dragon

> Tales, Disney, etc.

>

> Even videos can teach. My kids love this cheap little home video

> called Operation Dalmatian Fun With Letters with the Z Meany Evil

> Wizard who teases Zim Zim and his dog Zoo when they are singing the

> alphabet song by mock singing " A, B, C, D, wah -wah -wah " and he

> does an awful thing (don't want to give the ending away... OK just a

> bit -he blows a gust of wind and sends Zim Zim's dog Zoo to A land,

> and Zoo has to go through the whole alphabet to get back to Zim Zim)

>

> You know maybe when I'm done with this nonprofit stuff I'll go back

> to animation -sometimes I miss it (can you tell?)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

We were more concerned about loose stool with fish oil and now just do

the liquid Omega in juice in the morning. My husband however has been

taking fish oil gel tabs for years and his count is fine. So unless

your child has a known metabolic disorder I would not be really that

concerned.

April

[Guest guest]

I have to respectfully disagree here. There seem to be a number of kids

on this board responding to interventions that address metabolic issues

and not all metabolic syndromes are known and not everyone has seen

specialists to rule them in or out. I am not giving up on fish oil but

I a using what saw in my kids on it, including that poop, for part of

the discussion with all kinds of docs to rule both issues and the

future use of fish oil in or out. I care more about health than speech

but the ultinate goal is to get and keep both.

>

> We were more concerned about loose stool with fish oil and now just

do

> the liquid Omega in juice in the morning. My husband however has

been

> taking fish oil gel tabs for years and his count is fine. So unless

> your child has a known metabolic disorder I would not be really that

> concerned.

> April

>