W sitting

[Guest guest]

I have heard the " w " sitting is hereditary. My mom

sits like that still, I sit like that sometimes, and

my daughter Lily sits like that, and we are all fine.

But I'm not a doc and maybe as a rule of thumb, it is

not good.

Cole's mom

--- jabostock <jabostock@...> wrote:

> We've also been told that " W " sitting is very bad

> for kids! I also

> don't necesarily think it's a connective tissue

> " thing " , as lots of

> my friends kids sit that way! One friend's son was

> sent to an

> Orthopedist (around 8 or 9 yrs of age) for " In

> Toeing " (walking with

> his toes in), and the doc told them that prolonged

> sitting in the W

> position can cause this!

> Every physio Siobhan has seen has told us that W

> sitting is bad for

> kids in the long term too.

>

> Jacki

>

>

>

> > I don't know if it matters if you have a

> connective tissue

> disorder diagnosis before you go to see the

> specialist. They should

> be able to tell themselves if she has connective

> tissue " issues " .

> Seeing a geneticist will help figure out whether

> it's a named

> syndrome (EDS, Marfan's, etc.) or something else

> that they can't

> name. There are some reasons why you might want to

> know for sure

> what is going on (or as best as you can... " for sure "

> is unlikely,

> alas). One is that certain types of EDS might have

> implications for

> surgery, or in the case of Marfan's, there could be

> additional

> issues involving the heart that need to be

> monitored. But I don't

> think it would alter the course of the scoliosis

> treatment.

> >

> > Yes, the symptoms you noticed could be due

> to being an

> infant, but it could also be a connective tissue

> diagnosis...when

> you add in the scoliosis, my bet is on connective

> tissue. ;-)

> >

> > Bronwen's connective tissue disorder causes

> her to have thin-

> looking skin, hypermobile joints, scoliosis, flat

> feet when she's

> not on tip toe (actually a marker that it's

> connective tissue and

> not true flat feet...on tip toe, she appears to have

> an arch....when

> standing normally, she's flat-footed), mildly low

> muscle tone, soft

> skin (but not stretchy), and she had hip dysplasia.

>

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Ok, I

am going to ask a very dumb question, how do the kids “W” sit?

Probably of my disability that I never did that, and that’s probably why

I never heard that term.

Betty

Madison, WI

[Guest guest]

Here is a perfect picture of W Sitting.

Gail

RE: W Sitting

Ok, I am going to ask a very dumb question, how do the kids “W” sit? Probably of my disability that I never did that, and that’s probably why I never heard that term.

Betty

Madison, WI

[Guest guest]

I just found this info on W sitting, has some really good tips!

http://www.learninglinks.org.au/Publications/Information_Sheets_and_Brochur/Does_your_child_W-Sit.pdf

Gail

Re: W Sitting

I have heard the "w" sitting is hereditary. My momsits like that still, I sit like that sometimes, andmy daughter Lily sits like that, and we are all fine.But I'm not a doc and maybe as a rule of thumb, it isnot good.Cole's mom--- jabostock <jabostock@...> wrote:> We've also been told that "W" sitting is very bad> for kids! I also > don't necesarily think it's a connective tissue> "thing", as lots of > my friends kids sit that way! One friend's son was> sent to an > Orthopedist (around 8 or 9 yrs of age) for "In> Toeing" (walking with > his toes in), and the doc told them that prolonged> sitting in the W > position can cause this!> Every physio Siobhan has seen has told us that W> sitting is bad for > kids in the long term too.> > Jacki> > > > > I don't know if it matters if you have a> connective tissue > disorder diagnosis before you go to see the> specialist. They should > be able to tell themselves if she has connective> tissue "issues". > Seeing a geneticist will help figure out whether> it's a named > syndrome (EDS, Marfan's, etc.) or something else> that they can't > name. There are some reasons why you might want to> know for sure > what is going on (or as best as you can..."for sure"> is unlikely, > alas). One is that certain types of EDS might have> implications for > surgery, or in the case of Marfan's, there could be> additional > issues involving the heart that need to be> monitored. But I don't > think it would alter the course of the scoliosis> treatment. > > > > Yes, the symptoms you noticed could be due> to being an > infant, but it could also be a connective tissue> diagnosis...when > you add in the scoliosis, my bet is on connective> tissue. ;-)> > > > Bronwen's connective tissue disorder causes> her to have thin-> looking skin, hypermobile joints, scoliosis, flat> feet when she's > not on tip toe (actually a marker that it's> connective tissue and > not true flat feet...on tip toe, she appears to have> an arch....when > standing normally, she's flat-footed), mildly low> muscle tone, soft > skin (but not stretchy), and she had hip dysplasia. > > === message truncated === __________________________________ FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.http://farechase.

[Guest guest]

Yup,

I was right, I couldn’t and still can’t bend my knees like that and

just seeing that makes my knees hurt. If I bend my knees beyond 90 degrees,

they break. I found out the hard way. I fell out of my wheelchair and the

person that was with me should have let me go down all the way to the ground,

but instead he grabbed my shoulder and pulled me back and I fell right on the

knees and bent them beyond 90 degrees. Broke my left knee and right ankle that

night. Before that night never had a broken bone in my life. I was 27 when it

happened.

Betty

Madison, WI

[Guest guest]

I never knew what " W " sitting was until these posts. That seems to be

Lexi's favorite position to sit in, especially now with the cast. We

were never told it was a bad position, but I guess it was never

discussed either. I guess I will have to retrain her to sit another

way now.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

Recalling old posts this is never good correct? But worse if done

consistently?

[Guest guest]

correct!

On Dec 26, 2007 12:37 PM, ilizzy03 <lizlaw@...> wrote:

> Recalling old posts this is never good correct? But worse if done

> consistently?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both of my boys W sit (one is NT and no apraxia, one has autism and

suspected apraxia); and I find myself sitting like this since I was a

child. It is supposed to indicate low tone in the trunk I believe. I

guess it is not 'good' but I have done it all my life and am okay (and

have no verbal apraxia), so... Funny thing is, my son who has the low

tone and autism is very strong and athletic, so I guess strenth and

tone are not related.

Michele

>

> > My grandson sits in the W position alot, and also has verbal

apraxia. Is this

> > typical of a child with apraxia?

> > Dorothy

>

[Guest guest]

I asked our OT about this, and she said the the sitting is not really

a problem. It is just one of those " soft signs " that MAY indicate a

developmental issue. However, some people just sit that way because

they think it's comfortable. (I personally can't understand that

one!)

in NJ

> >

> > > My grandson sits in the W position alot, and also has verbal

> apraxia. Is this

> > > typical of a child with apraxia?

> > > Dorothy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I don't post often but this one hit a nerve

My son who has Arnold chiari malformation and a bunch of other problems

sits this way all the time he is globally developmentally delayed why is this a

bad sign ? What could it indicate? Could it be just his hypotonia?

Thanks

Gracie

[ ] Re:W sitting

I asked our OT about this, and she said the the sitting is not really

a problem. It is just one of those " soft signs " that MAY indicate a

developmental issue. However, some people just sit that way because

they think it's comfortable. (I personally can't understand that

one!)

in NJ

> >

> > > My grandson sits in the W position alot, and also has verbal

> apraxia. Is this

> > > typical of a child with apraxia?

> > > Dorothy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/28/2007 7:29:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bigcheech91@... writes:

I asked our OT about this, and she said the the sitting is not really

a problem. It is just one of those " soft signs " that MAY indicate a

developmental issue. However, some people just sit that way because

they think it's comfortable. (I personally can't understand that

one!)

I guess this is where differences of medical beliefs will come to play. Our

Orthopedic Dr says it's one of the biggest " no-no's " and has these little

signs all throughout his office and the patient rooms showing pictorals with

kids sitting that way with a large circle around it and a big red slash! LOL

But he says it's one of the biggest things he fights against with his

patients

bek

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes

(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jess for this bit of info. Had worried for a second.

Gracie

[ ] Re:W sitting

>

> I asked our OT about this, and she said the the sitting is not really

> a problem. It is just one of those " soft signs " that MAY indicate a

> developmental issue. However, some people just sit that way because

> they think it's comfortable. (I personally can't understand that

> one!)

>

> in NJ

>

>

> > >

> > > > My grandson sits in the W position alot, and also has verbal

> > apraxia. Is this

> > > > typical of a child with apraxia?

> > > > Dorothy

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

After reading this discussion I've noticed that my kids are sitting

this way. My 5 year old girl does walk with her feet outward and I am

wondering if that is why. She cannot walk a line, one foot in front of

the other. I just keep telling her to sit on her behind. I intend to

buy bean bags, but I know I have to get each child one so they don't

all go for the same bag. That should eliminate the W sitting.

[Guest guest]

Also check her ankles. Are her ankles pronating inwards? Our kids tend to have

very flat feet thus the 'duck' walk.

Exercises for those flat 'duck' feet!

Toe Raises: this is hard and I do them myself along with Mark at times (as I

also have flat feet). Stand with feet apart (not too wide) close to a ledge or

table to be used for stablity if necessary. Raise on to tip-toes, hold, then

back down on the ground. Again, raise up, hold and then down. Do this exercise

for 2 minutes at a time, twice daily..... forever! It takes a long, long time

to work those ankles and develop tone in the arches of the feet. But the more

you do it, the less pronation you will have.

Walk on tippy toes. While the ASD kids need to learn to walk more flat footed

and stretch the tendons, our kids need to strengthen their ankles, tighten their

tendons.... they are opposites! So, walking on the tip-toes for a couple of

minutes, a few times a day also works the arches of the foot and the ankles.

These exercises do work but they must be incorporated into daily life, just as

you brush your teeth every day, work your child's ankles and his/her arches

every day. While Mark's flat footedness and 'duck feet' have been around for

'ages', he didn't develop pronation until about 10 or 11 so if you work the foot

younger perhaps you can avoid the resulting pronation that comes from weak

ankles and low tone in the foot area.

Some people get orthotics with their older dyspraxic children and we may be

headed that way at some point. I would like to continue to work the ankle for

just a bit longer before resorting to orthotics though.

Just some hints.....

Mark sat in the W position for a long, long time. It helped with his core

stability. He ceased this practice after we worked his body core with a

medicine ball.... squats and lifts, 3 minutes, 2 times daily. It took about 4

or 5 months of this to develop core stability and strength. Core strength is

essential for our kids.... particularly when they hit school age. Very tough to

hold yourself upright in a desk all day, write, etc. without core strength. It

is very, very exhausting for our children. So, the younger that you develop a

daily regime to address all of the various parts of the body for strength, the

better.

More hints as to where to target....

Body core, ankles & feet, hands, wrists & fingers, tongue, jaw, cheek, throat

muscles (swallowing).... you name it.... that low tone is 'everywhere' and can

affect the child globally. I even suspect that this low tone affects digestion

and motility. It takes a long, long time for our kids to build muscle so be

patient, don't give up and just do it....

Think about supplementing with carnitine along with EFA's as carnitine helps the

body convert fats to muscle. I have found that Mark absorbs his EFA's better

since we started supplementing them alongside carnitine and digestive enzymes.

A lot of the kids on this board have tested with low carnitine (my boy included)

so this may be a piece of the puzzle that they are missing.

In addition for those kids who bump into everything, fall down stairs/steps and

don't seem to look where they are going.... think of doing a creeping, crawling,

marching, skipping program for your child. This was what we needed to get

better visual spatial coordination. We did it for 3-4 months, 2 times daily and

it worked like a charm. These series of steps a child naturally takes in

development is designed to 'format' the central nervous system hard-drive and

align the visual along with the body parts. Cross pattern movement builds basic

coordination. Some times kids need a 'do-over'. They are never too old. We

re-did these basic steps when Mark was 11!

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM][ ] Re:W sitting

After reading this discussion I've noticed that my kids are sitting

this way. My 5 year old girl does walk with her feet outward and I am

wondering if that is why. She cannot walk a line, one foot in front of

the other. I just keep telling her to sit on her behind. I intend to

buy bean bags, but I know I have to get each child one so they don't

all go for the same bag. That should eliminate the W sitting.

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't it be tone, failure to fully cross the midlind and chiari? I

did this all the time as a kid and suspect chiari.

> > >

> > > > My grandson sits in the W position alot, and also has

verbal

> > apraxia. Is this

> > > > typical of a child with apraxia?

> > > > Dorothy

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Did it all the time as a kid, was milk allergic and did not know it.

Hip problems better off milk and I can no longer sit that way.

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 12/27/2007 10:30:37 A.M. Eastern Standard

Time,

> > lizlaw@ writes:

> >

> > Recalling old posts this is never good correct? But worse if

done

> > consistently?

> >

> >

> >

> > Absolutely-- yes! This is never good to sit in this position

and

> should be

> > corrected each time they sit that way so that it doesn't become

> habitual,

> > causing bigger issues down the road.

> > And yes-- if it's done consistently, it's " worse " for them.

> >

> > Keep your eyes out for your child sitting in the " W " position

and

> > immediately so " No W sitting, fix your legs, please " and show

> him/her how to sit

> > properly (either in a cross-legged position or legs straight out

> forwards)

> > they will catch on quickly if you're consistent in catching them

> sitting

> > that way

> >

> >

> > hope this helps

> >

> > becky

> >

> >

> >

> > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes

> > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You know this was brought up on the chiari parents support group and a lot of

children with chiari or possible syrinx so I don't know I do know that his

brainstem was compressed for so long that the damage cannot be reversed but his

hypotonia could be from the chiari still don't know

Gracie

[ ] Re:W sitting

Wouldn't it be tone, failure to fully cross the midlind and chiari? I

did this all the time as a kid and suspect chiari.

> > >

> > > > My grandson sits in the W position alot, and also has

verbal

> > apraxia. Is this

> > > > typical of a child with apraxia?

> > > > Dorothy

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not a PT or an OT, but most experts in a variety of fields would

STRONGLY discourage regular use of the W sitting position. Also, it

is definitely a sign of possible developmental issues. You could go

to a bunch of typical preschools and never see a W during circle

time. If you go to one special ed preschool, I guarantee you will

see at least one, and probably several, kids sitting in a W (or

trying to, since the teachers and aides will almost surely tell them

to " sit like a big girl " , " criss cross applesauce " etc.) It is

similar to toe walking -- another generally accepted soft sign of

neurologically problems.

My son actually had the opposite problem. He had low truncal tone,

but was also so tight that he couldn't sit criss crossed without

assistance. He compensated for his low tone by hugely widening his

base (sorta like a wide straddle, but with knees up.) In retrospect,

that was a major tip-off of an undiagnosed problem (low tone) that

contributed to a diagnosed problem (speech delay). When we improved

his tone, his speech improved dramatically. If I had been aware of

the differences in sitting positions early one, we could have made

quicker progress on his speech. Live and learn. Now I'm all over my

baby when he W sits -- and yes, he is already diagnosed with

communication and motor delays. (My other two " typical " kids never W

sat.)

in NJ

>

> The W sitting is not a bad sign....it provides a child with a more

stable

> base of support!

> So, a child with hypotonia may be more likely to sit this way since

there

> he/she lacks tone

> to provide support and has not developed strength yet to sit in an

upright

> position without requiring a lot

> of work. (fighting gravity all this time!) Other children with

hypotonia

> may sit with legs in front but

> may requiring the support of one arm. If those young developing

bones are

> in this position for a long

> time (years) then the femur will grow with a twist among other

things (I can

> check my PT school notes for

> other consequences- I work with adults so don't remember it all!)

W sitting

> is just that...not a sign of

> intelligence, developmental delay, etc. Just a solid base of

support.

> Jess in CO