Re: a moment of breaking down. Need some proof. (Depressing)

[Guest guest]

Idit,

I feel for you........and I understand what you mean about X legs

although I have never heard it called that! Grace also did that in

the Markells for some reason. Her knees almost touched like she was

not sleeping with her thighs or hips spread ........only spreading

from the knees down. She has mild cerebral palsy from being born 11

weeks premature (although not technically diagnosed; most seem to

say yes that she has all signs). Grace just turned 4 and is now in

the s and sleeps like a champ. Im not sure exactly what the

difference is. Do you know how much it would cost to get the

s to you.........just curious as I really dont know if they

would help or not. I know the markells (and mitchells) are to be

set at a certain distance apart.......I wonder though if they would

be more comfortable closer together for Oshri?? Have you had his

hips checked for tightness?? Not to worry you as You are already

worried but I would do so. I have had Grace evaluated and she has

alot of spastic muscles w/tightness and some loose joints....it is a

strange combination that has puzzled many!!

Now, about the pain factor! I had clubfot surgery (FULL deal) in

1977 and probably not the best Dr. My feet do not look so well.

However and I will not sugar coat........I have pain BUT it is not

unbearable. Also it is something that I have accepted, do not

require pain meds for and it does not affect my activities in any

way shape or form. I have never had sympathy from anyone regarding

my clubfoot, my parents never mentioned it etc. That is not to say

my parents did not feel bad for me but it is important to not show

this to your child. As it has taught me to never feel bad for

myself. I think once you feel bad for your self that is WHEN the

pain becomes a bit of a nuisance and you begin to hate your feet

etc.

Massage Oshri's feet and legs. This is the BEST way to help. I

know some say NO it does not help....and also that physical therapy

is not helpful w/the Ponseti method. I say B.S. Wether you are

treated surgically or with the Ponseti method.......the child still

has Clubfoot. I know I can get a good foot massage when my feet are

killing me and it miraculously makes me feel better. I have massaged

Grace since she was about 18 months and it has improved alot of

things, including her flexibility. It gets the blood flowing into

the feet and legs. Its just really a good thing and i could go into

alot of detail but will spare you! I would massage him for a good

20 mins or so and stretching his hips before putting the shoes on.

Can you fold a pillow or something and put it between his legs while

he sleeps? I did that for grace.

I am sorry you feel so depressed right now!! I guess that is a

normal part of being an awesome Mommy. To not feel pain for your

baby would make you a bad parent I guess. I too worry for Grace.

There are so many things about her that I do not understand, things

that Drs do not understand. I think that is the same with clubfoot

in general.......the outcome is so uncertain. It is just something

that can be fine and then not fine, its a rollercoaster in itself.

But, perhaps in the end all of us including our children will come

out much stronger, much more able to deal with life in general form

having faced such a diverse experience. Yeah, that is what I will

tell myself from now on............each time we make it over a new

hurdle we are only becoming stronger. When you are feeling " UP "

again and cheering another new Mommy know that you are able to do so

because of your own experiences and that had you not faced this

personally you could not help so many others. BUT in the mean time

allow yourself to cry and hurt as much as you need to for Oshri.

I know you will feel better soon. Oshri is soooooo lucky to have

such a concerned Mom. Hugs, Boothe

> Hello dear parents. I'm writing her rarely so I'll introduce my

> self. Oshri, my son, is two years old. He was born with BL

clubfeet

> and treated according to the Ponseti method.

>

> Oshri doesn't sleep very well. He sleeps O.k when we take the

shows

> off. He has X legs (meaning his knees are close to each other

while

> his feet are apart). Although the orthopedic Dr said that it is

very

> normal for his age, I'm afraid that the shows will make the X

worse

> or won't let it change.

>

> Sometimes I can't think about putting these shoes any longer.

Lately-

> last couple of month - he cries at night that they hurt him. The

> shoes are in fine size. I lengthen the bar. The thing is that he

is

> very uncomfortable. I can put the shoes only when he already

sleeps

> and if he wakes up In the middle of the night I take them off. We

> thought of the sandals but to have them brought to Israel

> is so expensive- we use the now. And I really think it is

> not the shoes but the position that he can't stand any longer. I

> just can't stand his cries about the pain. Even taking him to our

> bed doesn't help.

>

> I want to ask if anyone knows about a resent research about

> relapsing or pain in older ages, meaning 16 and above. I have this

> bad feeling of pain in age 30, 40… I don't know how to make Oshri

> take care of his back and body all the time when he grows to try

and

> prevent pain. Lately I have this Clubfeet as a very cloud over my

> head. It is very hard for me that no one can promise good result

for

> life. I mean I hope we can continue with the shows until the age

of

> 4 but what's next? Being afraid of adolescence when the feet is

> chancing again? Or from pain in the foot at older age…

>

> Well, as you can read I'm pretty depressed now. Most times I'm

> trying to cheer pregnant women and parents, but at this time I

feel

> like I have no cheering words to offer.

>

> Thank you for reading

>

> Idit

[Guest guest]

Idit,

I feel for you........and I understand what you mean about X legs

although I have never heard it called that! Grace also did that in

the Markells for some reason. Her knees almost touched like she was

not sleeping with her thighs or hips spread ........only spreading

from the knees down. She has mild cerebral palsy from being born 11

weeks premature (although not technically diagnosed; most seem to

say yes that she has all signs). Grace just turned 4 and is now in

the s and sleeps like a champ. Im not sure exactly what the

difference is. Do you know how much it would cost to get the

s to you.........just curious as I really dont know if they

would help or not. I know the markells (and mitchells) are to be

set at a certain distance apart.......I wonder though if they would

be more comfortable closer together for Oshri?? Have you had his

hips checked for tightness?? Not to worry you as You are already

worried but I would do so. I have had Grace evaluated and she has

alot of spastic muscles w/tightness and some loose joints....it is a

strange combination that has puzzled many!!

Now, about the pain factor! I had clubfot surgery (FULL deal) in

1977 and probably not the best Dr. My feet do not look so well.

However and I will not sugar coat........I have pain BUT it is not

unbearable. Also it is something that I have accepted, do not

require pain meds for and it does not affect my activities in any

way shape or form. I have never had sympathy from anyone regarding

my clubfoot, my parents never mentioned it etc. That is not to say

my parents did not feel bad for me but it is important to not show

this to your child. As it has taught me to never feel bad for

myself. I think once you feel bad for your self that is WHEN the

pain becomes a bit of a nuisance and you begin to hate your feet

etc.

Massage Oshri's feet and legs. This is the BEST way to help. I

know some say NO it does not help....and also that physical therapy

is not helpful w/the Ponseti method. I say B.S. Wether you are

treated surgically or with the Ponseti method.......the child still

has Clubfoot. I know I can get a good foot massage when my feet are

killing me and it miraculously makes me feel better. I have massaged

Grace since she was about 18 months and it has improved alot of

things, including her flexibility. It gets the blood flowing into

the feet and legs. Its just really a good thing and i could go into

alot of detail but will spare you! I would massage him for a good

20 mins or so and stretching his hips before putting the shoes on.

Can you fold a pillow or something and put it between his legs while

he sleeps? I did that for grace.

I am sorry you feel so depressed right now!! I guess that is a

normal part of being an awesome Mommy. To not feel pain for your

baby would make you a bad parent I guess. I too worry for Grace.

There are so many things about her that I do not understand, things

that Drs do not understand. I think that is the same with clubfoot

in general.......the outcome is so uncertain. It is just something

that can be fine and then not fine, its a rollercoaster in itself.

But, perhaps in the end all of us including our children will come

out much stronger, much more able to deal with life in general form

having faced such a diverse experience. Yeah, that is what I will

tell myself from now on............each time we make it over a new

hurdle we are only becoming stronger. When you are feeling " UP "

again and cheering another new Mommy know that you are able to do so

because of your own experiences and that had you not faced this

personally you could not help so many others. BUT in the mean time

allow yourself to cry and hurt as much as you need to for Oshri.

I know you will feel better soon. Oshri is soooooo lucky to have

such a concerned Mom. Hugs, Boothe

> Hello dear parents. I'm writing her rarely so I'll introduce my

> self. Oshri, my son, is two years old. He was born with BL

clubfeet

> and treated according to the Ponseti method.

>

> Oshri doesn't sleep very well. He sleeps O.k when we take the

shows

> off. He has X legs (meaning his knees are close to each other

while

> his feet are apart). Although the orthopedic Dr said that it is

very

> normal for his age, I'm afraid that the shows will make the X

worse

> or won't let it change.

>

> Sometimes I can't think about putting these shoes any longer.

Lately-

> last couple of month - he cries at night that they hurt him. The

> shoes are in fine size. I lengthen the bar. The thing is that he

is

> very uncomfortable. I can put the shoes only when he already

sleeps

> and if he wakes up In the middle of the night I take them off. We

> thought of the sandals but to have them brought to Israel

> is so expensive- we use the now. And I really think it is

> not the shoes but the position that he can't stand any longer. I

> just can't stand his cries about the pain. Even taking him to our

> bed doesn't help.

>

> I want to ask if anyone knows about a resent research about

> relapsing or pain in older ages, meaning 16 and above. I have this

> bad feeling of pain in age 30, 40… I don't know how to make Oshri

> take care of his back and body all the time when he grows to try

and

> prevent pain. Lately I have this Clubfeet as a very cloud over my

> head. It is very hard for me that no one can promise good result

for

> life. I mean I hope we can continue with the shows until the age

of

> 4 but what's next? Being afraid of adolescence when the feet is

> chancing again? Or from pain in the foot at older age…

>

> Well, as you can read I'm pretty depressed now. Most times I'm

> trying to cheer pregnant women and parents, but at this time I

feel

> like I have no cheering words to offer.

>

> Thank you for reading

>

> Idit

[Guest guest]

Idit,

I'm sorry you're down right now. It is hard, but remind yourself that

it's not forever. And you really are doing the best thing you can for

Oshri. 2 year old boys are a trial anyway--let alone with CF too!! If

the doctor says his legs are okay, then I wouldn't worry about the " X "

too much...he only has a little longer in the shoes, and then his feet

will be fine. Everything I've read about older Ponseti patients seem

like they have happy, pain-free feet. And I think after the age of 4

the chance of relapse is less than 1%. But I'm sure someone else here

knows better and will chime in!

Know we're here for you--everyone needs their time to hate the shoes

and making their child wear them--but we're here to get you through it!

[Guest guest]

Oh Ididt,

You are very good about supporting new parents. Thank you so much for

being there!

At 06:04 AM 9/11/2005, you wrote:

>Hello dear parents. I'm writing her rarely so I'll introduce my

>self. Oshri, my son, is two years old. He was born with BL clubfeet

>and treated according to the Ponseti method.

>

>Oshri doesn't sleep very well. He sleeps O.k when we take the shows

>off. He has X legs (meaning his knees are close to each other while

>his feet are apart). Although the orthopedic Dr said that it is very

>normal for his age, I'm afraid that the shows will make the X worse

>or won't let it change.

Have you considered that the bar is too wide for him then? Maybe it should

be set closer than farther in this case? I know that Darbi's knees come

together a lot when she's wearing the bar, but it hasn't show to be a

problem while she's out of it. I wonder however, if perhaps it's a trade

off? If the Dr. says it's normal for the age, and should grow out of it

maybe it is? Maybe the x legs won't really be such a problem for him but

the clubfoot would cripple him? Which do you choose?

Maybe you could talk to your doc about some kind of hinge knee brace that

would keep his knees farther apart while wearing the brace? I'm thinking

something like an AFO kind of thing with a hinge that wouldn't allow the

outward bend of the lower leg? I'm sure it's not available, but it seems

like there should be something...

>Sometimes I can't think about putting these shoes any longer. Lately-

> last couple of month - he cries at night that they hurt him. The

>shoes are in fine size. I lengthen the bar. The thing is that he is

>very uncomfortable. I can put the shoes only when he already sleeps

>and if he wakes up In the middle of the night I take them off.

You know, I am fully aware that you are his mother and you know your son

better than anyone. So I'll just offer this out as devils's advocate...

Do you think there's the possibility that he's learned that you'll take

them off for him? That he goes to sleep without the brace, and wakes up in

it and is mad? (I remember when my babies were so little and on the

boat... they're in this huge life jacket and often would fall asleep

without it and wake up in it... I always thought they were freaking out

upon waking... " help! I woke up in a life jacket! Where did this come

from?!? " ) I kind of think Darbi was getting like that over the past couple

of months with her new sore. I'd take it off in the middle of the night

and then it was more healed... and she was fine wearing it before bed and

then wake up and say it hurt. I think a few times she was BS'ing me. She

did it the other night after she was out of the brace for those days on the

boat and I knew her heel was well healed. It should not have bothered her

much if at all. So I told her no, she has to keep them on and she did go

back to sleep. Since then, she's been wearing them 14-16hr/d (I'm

overcompensating for a little while here, just to be sure I didn't screw up

by letting her keep them off... hopefully I'm doing the right thing) and

doesn't complain at all anymore.

> We

>thought of the sandals but to have them brought to Israel

>is so expensive- we use the now. And I really think it is

>not the shoes but the position that he can't stand any longer. I

>just can't stand his cries about the pain. Even taking him to our

>bed doesn't help.

Have you located where the pain is? I know he's only 2, but you should be

able to ask him to point where the pain is when he cries. It may take a

few times of you pointing to other parts of his body and asking *does it

hurt here?* (nose, ear, tummy - obvious spots that it doesn't hurt

first). It would seem to me that if you knew for sure it was his knees,

that you could make a sound decision about how to go forward. If he tells

you it's his feet... well... I think we all know what that means baring

other signs that she shoes themselves are hurting him (sores, marks,

blisters, etc.). That his foot/feet may need some evaluation for relapse.

>I want to ask if anyone knows about a resent research about

>relapsing or pain in older ages, meaning 16 and above. I have this

>bad feeling of pain in age 30, 40… I don't know how to make Oshri

>take care of his back and body all the time when he grows to try and

>prevent pain. Lately I have this Clubfeet as a very cloud over my

>head. It is very hard for me that no one can promise good result for

>life. I mean I hope we can continue with the shows until the age of

>4 but what's next? Being afraid of adolescence when the feet is

>chancing again? Or from pain in the foot at older age…

Oh honey, it sounds so much like you're dealing with some *issue* that

could be remedied. It is frustrating when they cry at night (and I don't

for one second disbelieve that he's in pain - you do know your child best)

and you can't do anything but take them off. And every morning you feel

like you're doing him a disservice because you're not keeping them

on. Been going through that recently myself. Try not to feel so bad about

all this, you do have resources at your disposal that so many don't. There

are a lot of great minds here who should be able to come up with something

to help you. And some old PM's are going to be coming off of children all

around the world... I'm sure we can figure out a way to get you new shoes

to at least try. I would first however try to locate exactly what and

where it's hurting him so you know if it's his knees or his feet. Are you

not seeing ANY spots or tender areas on his feet then?

>Well, as you can read I'm pretty depressed now. Most times I'm

>trying to cheer pregnant women and parents, but at this time I feel

>like I have no cheering words to offer.

Hang in there, I'm so glad you posted. With more older children in shoes

we're going to see parents who are suddenly experiencing issues like this

and if it can be figured out somehow... it's that much more information to

give to parents down the line. I know it sounds like our children will be

the guinea pigs but how can it be any other way? If we don't find out how

to take care of these kind of things now, more children will be released

from the brace early and that won't be such a good thing.

I do like 's suggestion about massage. I have always massaged Darbi's

legs in the middle of the night when she wakes and says ow. Until she got

the PM's and that blister/sore that's all I ever did. I never took them

off. She loved it and it would make her go back to sleep. Sometimes I had

to do it twice, early in the evening say around 11pm and again in the early

morning. But it worked. I would absolutely try massage on him before

bed. Put on a video if you're alone, or if dh is home have him read a

story or two while you massage his legs. Then put the shoes on before he

goes to sleep and maybe massage them for another few minutes once they're

on. If he's really tired, he could just fall asleep during this

time. Then, take him to bed with you for a little while to see if you can

get past this. So that the moment he wakes up, you're right there and can

sleepily massage his legs again. Squeeze his feet in the shoes, allow him

to move his toes around a bit and get a comfortable position in the shoes

again. When you lie with him, let him put his feet on your body and then

you can help make sure his knees aren't too close together (or too far

apart, depending on what's bothering him) and you can put your hand on his

knee and fall asleep, it should stay there for a little while that

way. Plus with his legs elevated on you, it may be easier to keep them

elevated than if you used a pillow in his bed that he could roll off of.

I know there's controversy over taking an older child to bed with you, but

sometimes you have to do things differently for *your* child. What works

for you is the only thing that matters and if you have to choose between

loosing the correction he's got because he won't sleep and having a child

who enjoys being with his parents in bed after the age of

2... well... things could be worse. It is not a bad thing to snuggle up

with your child at night, feels pretty good sometimes. Like a live teddy

bear... all warm and snugly and happy to be with you. Like I

said... there are much worse things in life.

The bottom line is that you need to do what is going to work for your

family and also be able to balance that with what is best for his feet. I

would look into his correction, the real information about this x leg thing

(consult other docs about how normal this is and what you might do about

it), email Dr. Ponseti and send pictures, try the massage and anything else

you can think of (maybe a heating pad?) but keep him in the shoes. I think

you know that there's a possibility that having been in them recently for

low hours, that a relapse of some kind has occurred. This age is

important, as the majority of relapses seen used to be seen between the age

of 2 and 2-1/2. The minimum age used to be 2-1/2. It's now 3-1/2 for

obvious reasons. The growth spurts during the third year are big, and are

much the force behind a relapse. That's where you're at now, and I think

it's very important to find out why he's in so much pain, fix that somehow

(whether it be shoes or something else) and not take him out of the shoes.

You can tell me I'm off my rocker if you wish, I have no problem with that

lol. I very may well be! I hope to hear some other's responses, I'm sure

someone will come up with something that will work for you.

At minimum, I think we need to know what size shoe he's wearing (in regular

shoes too - if you can translate that to US measurements because we're all

dolts over here) and let's work on getting you a pair of PM's to try. If

someone has a pair they'd donate, it's only shipping so the cost would be

minimal as compared to ordering them new. If we can't find any, I'm sure

that something could be worked out with to get you a pair. It's

possible he has some shoes hanging around, maybe returns in good shape that

he could work out something for you with. Don't know till you ask though.

Big hugs to you and Oshri, and Happy Birthday to him too!

Kori

>Thank you for reading

>

>Idit

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gabe's old one's are size 3, but I'm sure his feet are bigger than that now...

frogabog wrote:Oh Ididt,

You are very good about supporting new parents. Thank you so much for

being there!

At 06:04 AM 9/11/2005, you wrote:

>Hello dear parents. I'm writing her rarely so I'll introduce my

>self. Oshri, my son, is two years old. He was born with BL clubfeet

>and treated according to the Ponseti method.

>

>Oshri doesn't sleep very well. He sleeps O.k when we take the shows

>off. He has X legs (meaning his knees are close to each other while

>his feet are apart). Although the orthopedic Dr said that it is very

>normal for his age, I'm afraid that the shows will make the X worse

>or won't let it change.

Have you considered that the bar is too wide for him then? Maybe it should

be set closer than farther in this case? I know that Darbi's knees come

together a lot when she's wearing the bar, but it hasn't show to be a

problem while she's out of it. I wonder however, if perhaps it's a trade

off? If the Dr. says it's normal for the age, and should grow out of it

maybe it is? Maybe the x legs won't really be such a problem for him but

the clubfoot would cripple him? Which do you choose?

Maybe you could talk to your doc about some kind of hinge knee brace that

would keep his knees farther apart while wearing the brace? I'm thinking

something like an AFO kind of thing with a hinge that wouldn't allow the

outward bend of the lower leg? I'm sure it's not available, but it seems

like there should be something...

>Sometimes I can't think about putting these shoes any longer. Lately-

> last couple of month - he cries at night that they hurt him. The

>shoes are in fine size. I lengthen the bar. The thing is that he is

>very uncomfortable. I can put the shoes only when he already sleeps

>and if he wakes up In the middle of the night I take them off.

You know, I am fully aware that you are his mother and you know your son

better than anyone. So I'll just offer this out as devils's advocate...

Do you think there's the possibility that he's learned that you'll take

them off for him? That he goes to sleep without the brace, and wakes up in

it and is mad? (I remember when my babies were so little and on the

boat... they're in this huge life jacket and often would fall asleep

without it and wake up in it... I always thought they were freaking out

upon waking... " help! I woke up in a life jacket! Where did this come

from?!? " ) I kind of think Darbi was getting like that over the past couple

of months with her new sore. I'd take it off in the middle of the night

and then it was more healed... and she was fine wearing it before bed and

then wake up and say it hurt. I think a few times she was BS'ing me. She

did it the other night after she was out of the brace for those days on the

boat and I knew her heel was well healed. It should not have bothered her

much if at all. So I told her no, she has to keep them on and she did go

back to sleep. Since then, she's been wearing them 14-16hr/d (I'm

overcompensating for a little while here, just to be sure I didn't screw up

by letting her keep them off... hopefully I'm doing the right thing) and

doesn't complain at all anymore.

> We

>thought of the sandals but to have them brought to Israel

>is so expensive- we use the now. And I really think it is

>not the shoes but the position that he can't stand any longer. I

>just can't stand his cries about the pain. Even taking him to our

>bed doesn't help.

Have you located where the pain is? I know he's only 2, but you should be

able to ask him to point where the pain is when he cries. It may take a

few times of you pointing to other parts of his body and asking *does it

hurt here?* (nose, ear, tummy - obvious spots that it doesn't hurt

first). It would seem to me that if you knew for sure it was his knees,

that you could make a sound decision about how to go forward. If he tells

you it's his feet... well... I think we all know what that means baring

other signs that she shoes themselves are hurting him (sores, marks,

blisters, etc.). That his foot/feet may need some evaluation for relapse.

>I want to ask if anyone knows about a resent research about

>relapsing or pain in older ages, meaning 16 and above. I have this

>bad feeling of pain in age 30, 40… I don't know how to make Oshri

>take care of his back and body all the time when he grows to try and

>prevent pain. Lately I have this Clubfeet as a very cloud over my

>head. It is very hard for me that no one can promise good result for

>life. I mean I hope we can continue with the shows until the age of

>4 but what's next? Being afraid of adolescence when the feet is

>chancing again? Or from pain in the foot at older age…

Oh honey, it sounds so much like you're dealing with some *issue* that

could be remedied. It is frustrating when they cry at night (and I don't

for one second disbelieve that he's in pain - you do know your child best)

and you can't do anything but take them off. And every morning you feel

like you're doing him a disservice because you're not keeping them

on. Been going through that recently myself. Try not to feel so bad about

all this, you do have resources at your disposal that so many don't. There

are a lot of great minds here who should be able to come up with something

to help you. And some old PM's are going to be coming off of children all

around the world... I'm sure we can figure out a way to get you new shoes

to at least try. I would first however try to locate exactly what and

where it's hurting him so you know if it's his knees or his feet. Are you

not seeing ANY spots or tender areas on his feet then?

>Well, as you can read I'm pretty depressed now. Most times I'm

>trying to cheer pregnant women and parents, but at this time I feel

>like I have no cheering words to offer.

Hang in there, I'm so glad you posted. With more older children in shoes

we're going to see parents who are suddenly experiencing issues like this

and if it can be figured out somehow... it's that much more information to

give to parents down the line. I know it sounds like our children will be

the guinea pigs but how can it be any other way? If we don't find out how

to take care of these kind of things now, more children will be released

from the brace early and that won't be such a good thing.

I do like 's suggestion about massage. I have always massaged Darbi's

legs in the middle of the night when she wakes and says ow. Until she got

the PM's and that blister/sore that's all I ever did. I never took them

off. She loved it and it would make her go back to sleep. Sometimes I had

to do it twice, early in the evening say around 11pm and again in the early

morning. But it worked. I would absolutely try massage on him before

bed. Put on a video if you're alone, or if dh is home have him read a

story or two while you massage his legs. Then put the shoes on before he

goes to sleep and maybe massage them for another few minutes once they're

on. If he's really tired, he could just fall asleep during this

time. Then, take him to bed with you for a little while to see if you can

get past this. So that the moment he wakes up, you're right there and can

sleepily massage his legs again. Squeeze his feet in the shoes, allow him

to move his toes around a bit and get a comfortable position in the shoes

again. When you lie with him, let him put his feet on your body and then

you can help make sure his knees aren't too close together (or too far

apart, depending on what's bothering him) and you can put your hand on his

knee and fall asleep, it should stay there for a little while that

way. Plus with his legs elevated on you, it may be easier to keep them

elevated than if you used a pillow in his bed that he could roll off of.

I know there's controversy over taking an older child to bed with you, but

sometimes you have to do things differently for *your* child. What works

for you is the only thing that matters and if you have to choose between

loosing the correction he's got because he won't sleep and having a child

who enjoys being with his parents in bed after the age of

2... well... things could be worse. It is not a bad thing to snuggle up

with your child at night, feels pretty good sometimes. Like a live teddy

bear... all warm and snugly and happy to be with you. Like I

said... there are much worse things in life.

The bottom line is that you need to do what is going to work for your

family and also be able to balance that with what is best for his feet. I

would look into his correction, the real information about this x leg thing

(consult other docs about how normal this is and what you might do about

it), email Dr. Ponseti and send pictures, try the massage and anything else

you can think of (maybe a heating pad?) but keep him in the shoes. I think

you know that there's a possibility that having been in them recently for

low hours, that a relapse of some kind has occurred. This age is

important, as the majority of relapses seen used to be seen between the age

of 2 and 2-1/2. The minimum age used to be 2-1/2. It's now 3-1/2 for

obvious reasons. The growth spurts during the third year are big, and are

much the force behind a relapse. That's where you're at now, and I think

it's very important to find out why he's in so much pain, fix that somehow

(whether it be shoes or something else) and not take him out of the shoes.

You can tell me I'm off my rocker if you wish, I have no problem with that

lol. I very may well be! I hope to hear some other's responses, I'm sure

someone will come up with something that will work for you.

At minimum, I think we need to know what size shoe he's wearing (in regular

shoes too - if you can translate that to US measurements because we're all

dolts over here) and let's work on getting you a pair of PM's to try. If

someone has a pair they'd donate, it's only shipping so the cost would be

minimal as compared to ordering them new. If we can't find any, I'm sure

that something could be worked out with to get you a pair. It's

possible he has some shoes hanging around, maybe returns in good shape that

he could work out something for you with. Don't know till you ask though.

Big hugs to you and Oshri, and Happy Birthday to him too!

Kori

>Thank you for reading

>

>Idit

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello dearest parents.

It is noon here and I just finish reading all your comments. I went

to put Oshri's shoes for his nap time. I think he never complains

about the shoes when hi is napping and in deep sleep, so we really

have to take advantage of these hours. In a few month he mite not

nap any more.

About the massage. I really feel it can work. Last night after I

read what wrote I read Oshri a book and massage his little

feet. He liked it, which was a surprise for me, and I liked it too.

Reading him and then singing to his feet. And now I read Kori's

letter and I remember that Oshri is watching 30 min of TV almost

every day, so yes it can be a perfect time for bonding, between

Oshri' the TV and myself (-:

, I'm so glad you wrote. We have a 3 years old boy in our

Clubfoot community who just had an operation lately. (he wasn't

treated in the Ponseti method). I'm sure his mother would be happy

to read your lines.

I'm glad I wrote what I had in my belly. I felt for a ling time and

didn't won't to post it not to scare other parents. I always tell

other parents to try and put the shoes until the age of 4. You know,

before Oshri was born we went looking for a good Orthopedic Dr.

here. The one we have doesn't follow the protocol. He says, 23 hours

with the shoes `till the child is walking and than at night `till

the age 2 or 2.5. We didn't follow his instructions from the start.

Now, luckily there is a new Dr. at the clinic, one who worked in

Iowa and he back up our judgment of following the protocol.

Do you mean 's sandals by the PM? I was trying to go to

http://www.mdorthopaedics.org/default.html but it's not working.

Getting the Markell to Israel was hard. I'm not sure that the

will solve the problem.

I think his hurt because of the position of his legs that after some

hours it stars to hurt. At the beginning of the night he is o.k. but

when morning approaches or even at 2pm he is starting to complain. I

will try to shorten his bar tonight.

Oshri doesn't have a problem waking up with the bar, because I show

him the bar before I say `good night' and he than asks me to put the

shoes later. So he knows I'm doing it. (30 min ago we `fixed' the

bar together to make it shorter- it in night all ready- I didn't

have the time to finish at noon).

The orthopedic Dr. drew us diagram explaining how the X legs are at

the maximum position at this age. So we have to wait and see if it

gets better. His hips are o.k. we had ultrasounds when Oshri was a

baby.

Thank you all for the kind and honest words. I printed all you

letters to be with mw for a while so I can read and remember the

advises.

Thanks for the shoes offer. I actually don't know Oshri's size but

we will manage. (-:

Well, I'm going to put the shoes on.

Love you all

Idit

[Guest guest]

Hello dearest parents.

It is noon here and I just finish reading all your comments. I went

to put Oshri's shoes for his nap time. I think he never complains

about the shoes when hi is napping and in deep sleep, so we really

have to take advantage of these hours. In a few month he mite not

nap any more.

About the massage. I really feel it can work. Last night after I

read what wrote I read Oshri a book and massage his little

feet. He liked it, which was a surprise for me, and I liked it too.

Reading him and then singing to his feet. And now I read Kori's

letter and I remember that Oshri is watching 30 min of TV almost

every day, so yes it can be a perfect time for bonding, between

Oshri' the TV and myself (-:

, I'm so glad you wrote. We have a 3 years old boy in our

Clubfoot community who just had an operation lately. (he wasn't

treated in the Ponseti method). I'm sure his mother would be happy

to read your lines.

I'm glad I wrote what I had in my belly. I felt for a ling time and

didn't won't to post it not to scare other parents. I always tell

other parents to try and put the shoes until the age of 4. You know,

before Oshri was born we went looking for a good Orthopedic Dr.

here. The one we have doesn't follow the protocol. He says, 23 hours

with the shoes `till the child is walking and than at night `till

the age 2 or 2.5. We didn't follow his instructions from the start.

Now, luckily there is a new Dr. at the clinic, one who worked in

Iowa and he back up our judgment of following the protocol.

Do you mean 's sandals by the PM? I was trying to go to

http://www.mdorthopaedics.org/default.html but it's not working.

Getting the Markell to Israel was hard. I'm not sure that the

will solve the problem.

I think his hurt because of the position of his legs that after some

hours it stars to hurt. At the beginning of the night he is o.k. but

when morning approaches or even at 2pm he is starting to complain. I

will try to shorten his bar tonight.

Oshri doesn't have a problem waking up with the bar, because I show

him the bar before I say `good night' and he than asks me to put the

shoes later. So he knows I'm doing it. (30 min ago we `fixed' the

bar together to make it shorter- it in night all ready- I didn't

have the time to finish at noon).

The orthopedic Dr. drew us diagram explaining how the X legs are at

the maximum position at this age. So we have to wait and see if it

gets better. His hips are o.k. we had ultrasounds when Oshri was a

baby.

Thank you all for the kind and honest words. I printed all you

letters to be with mw for a while so I can read and remember the

advises.

Thanks for the shoes offer. I actually don't know Oshri's size but

we will manage. (-:

Well, I'm going to put the shoes on.

Love you all

Idit

[Guest guest]

Idit,

I have an idea for you, I don't know if you have heard about the brace

that Dr. Dobbs in St. Louis has developed, but it may help with your

son's situation. The brace is similar to the traditional bar with the

Markell shoes, but it has articulating points near each foot. This

allows the feet to be held in the correct outward rotation and

properly dorsiflexed, but also allows the child to move his/her feet

independently. There are a couple photos of the brace in the photos

section under " dobbs brace " . I think there are some shown with the

Markell shoes. He uses the brace with both a molded AFO style shoe

and the Markell's (this is what my son uses). Anyway, the advantage

to sleeping in this brace for Oshri, might be that he won't have to

sleep with his legs in the usual fixed position. I have some photos

that I haven't downloaded from my camera yet showing how my son can

sleep in his brace, but I can download them and send them to you

tonight. I think you would really like this brace and could be really

helpful to you. It is easy to obtain just the articulating bar, I

believe there is another parent here from overseas who contacted Dr.

Dobbs and he was able to get her the bar quickly. You can contact Dr.

Dobbs at mattdobbs@... (mattdobbs @ earthlink.net without

the spaces). Or if you would like I can contact him for you, I talk

to him regularly. You can email me directly at jagrindon@...

(jagrindon @ yahoo.com).

HTH,

> Hello dearest parents.

> It is noon here and I just finish reading all your comments. I went

> to put Oshri's shoes for his nap time. I think he never complains

> about the shoes when hi is napping and in deep sleep, so we really

> have to take advantage of these hours. In a few month he mite not

> nap any more.

>

> About the massage. I really feel it can work. Last night after I

> read what wrote I read Oshri a book and massage his little

> feet. He liked it, which was a surprise for me, and I liked it too.

> Reading him and then singing to his feet. And now I read Kori's

> letter and I remember that Oshri is watching 30 min of TV almost

> every day, so yes it can be a perfect time for bonding, between

> Oshri' the TV and myself (-:

> , I'm so glad you wrote. We have a 3 years old boy in our

> Clubfoot community who just had an operation lately. (he wasn't

> treated in the Ponseti method). I'm sure his mother would be happy

> to read your lines.

>

> I'm glad I wrote what I had in my belly. I felt for a ling time and

> didn't won't to post it not to scare other parents. I always tell

> other parents to try and put the shoes until the age of 4. You know,

> before Oshri was born we went looking for a good Orthopedic Dr.

> here. The one we have doesn't follow the protocol. He says, 23 hours

> with the shoes `till the child is walking and than at night `till

> the age 2 or 2.5. We didn't follow his instructions from the start.

> Now, luckily there is a new Dr. at the clinic, one who worked in

> Iowa and he back up our judgment of following the protocol.

> Do you mean 's sandals by the PM? I was trying to go to

> http://www.mdorthopaedics.org/default.html but it's not working.

> Getting the Markell to Israel was hard. I'm not sure that the

> will solve the problem.

> I think his hurt because of the position of his legs that after some

> hours it stars to hurt. At the beginning of the night he is o.k. but

> when morning approaches or even at 2pm he is starting to complain. I

> will try to shorten his bar tonight.

>

>

> Oshri doesn't have a problem waking up with the bar, because I show

> him the bar before I say `good night' and he than asks me to put the

> shoes later. So he knows I'm doing it. (30 min ago we `fixed' the

> bar together to make it shorter- it in night all ready- I didn't

> have the time to finish at noon).

>

> The orthopedic Dr. drew us diagram explaining how the X legs are at

> the maximum position at this age. So we have to wait and see if it

> gets better. His hips are o.k. we had ultrasounds when Oshri was a

> baby.

>

>

> Thank you all for the kind and honest words. I printed all you

> letters to be with mw for a while so I can read and remember the

> advises.

>

> Thanks for the shoes offer. I actually don't know Oshri's size but

> we will manage. (-:

> Well, I'm going to put the shoes on.

> Love you all

> Idit

[Guest guest]

Idit,

I have an idea for you, I don't know if you have heard about the brace

that Dr. Dobbs in St. Louis has developed, but it may help with your

son's situation. The brace is similar to the traditional bar with the

Markell shoes, but it has articulating points near each foot. This

allows the feet to be held in the correct outward rotation and

properly dorsiflexed, but also allows the child to move his/her feet

independently. There are a couple photos of the brace in the photos

section under " dobbs brace " . I think there are some shown with the

Markell shoes. He uses the brace with both a molded AFO style shoe

and the Markell's (this is what my son uses). Anyway, the advantage

to sleeping in this brace for Oshri, might be that he won't have to

sleep with his legs in the usual fixed position. I have some photos

that I haven't downloaded from my camera yet showing how my son can

sleep in his brace, but I can download them and send them to you

tonight. I think you would really like this brace and could be really

helpful to you. It is easy to obtain just the articulating bar, I

believe there is another parent here from overseas who contacted Dr.

Dobbs and he was able to get her the bar quickly. You can contact Dr.

Dobbs at mattdobbs@... (mattdobbs @ earthlink.net without

the spaces). Or if you would like I can contact him for you, I talk

to him regularly. You can email me directly at jagrindon@...

(jagrindon @ yahoo.com).

HTH,

> Hello dearest parents.

> It is noon here and I just finish reading all your comments. I went

> to put Oshri's shoes for his nap time. I think he never complains

> about the shoes when hi is napping and in deep sleep, so we really

> have to take advantage of these hours. In a few month he mite not

> nap any more.

>

> About the massage. I really feel it can work. Last night after I

> read what wrote I read Oshri a book and massage his little

> feet. He liked it, which was a surprise for me, and I liked it too.

> Reading him and then singing to his feet. And now I read Kori's

> letter and I remember that Oshri is watching 30 min of TV almost

> every day, so yes it can be a perfect time for bonding, between

> Oshri' the TV and myself (-:

> , I'm so glad you wrote. We have a 3 years old boy in our

> Clubfoot community who just had an operation lately. (he wasn't

> treated in the Ponseti method). I'm sure his mother would be happy

> to read your lines.

>

> I'm glad I wrote what I had in my belly. I felt for a ling time and

> didn't won't to post it not to scare other parents. I always tell

> other parents to try and put the shoes until the age of 4. You know,

> before Oshri was born we went looking for a good Orthopedic Dr.

> here. The one we have doesn't follow the protocol. He says, 23 hours

> with the shoes `till the child is walking and than at night `till

> the age 2 or 2.5. We didn't follow his instructions from the start.

> Now, luckily there is a new Dr. at the clinic, one who worked in

> Iowa and he back up our judgment of following the protocol.

> Do you mean 's sandals by the PM? I was trying to go to

> http://www.mdorthopaedics.org/default.html but it's not working.

> Getting the Markell to Israel was hard. I'm not sure that the

> will solve the problem.

> I think his hurt because of the position of his legs that after some

> hours it stars to hurt. At the beginning of the night he is o.k. but

> when morning approaches or even at 2pm he is starting to complain. I

> will try to shorten his bar tonight.

>

>

> Oshri doesn't have a problem waking up with the bar, because I show

> him the bar before I say `good night' and he than asks me to put the

> shoes later. So he knows I'm doing it. (30 min ago we `fixed' the

> bar together to make it shorter- it in night all ready- I didn't

> have the time to finish at noon).

>

> The orthopedic Dr. drew us diagram explaining how the X legs are at

> the maximum position at this age. So we have to wait and see if it

> gets better. His hips are o.k. we had ultrasounds when Oshri was a

> baby.

>

>

> Thank you all for the kind and honest words. I printed all you

> letters to be with mw for a while so I can read and remember the

> advises.

>

> Thanks for the shoes offer. I actually don't know Oshri's size but

> we will manage. (-:

> Well, I'm going to put the shoes on.

> Love you all

> Idit

[Guest guest]

Good idea. And his current markell shoes could go on the articulating bar

if they send them with sole plates from a gold bar. I assume he's in the

red bar, well I think I've seen pictures of him in one at least :-*

Kori

At 11:23 AM 9/12/2005, you wrote:

>Idit,

>I have an idea for you, I don't know if you have heard about the brace

>that Dr. Dobbs in St. Louis has developed, but it may help with your

>son's situation. The brace is similar to the traditional bar with the

>Markell shoes, but it has articulating points near each foot. This

>allows the feet to be held in the correct outward rotation and

>properly dorsiflexed, but also allows the child to move his/her feet

>independently. There are a couple photos of the brace in the photos

>section under " dobbs brace " . I think there are some shown with the

>Markell shoes. He uses the brace with both a molded AFO style shoe

>and the Markell's (this is what my son uses). Anyway, the advantage

>to sleeping in this brace for Oshri, might be that he won't have to

>sleep with his legs in the usual fixed position. I have some photos

>that I haven't downloaded from my camera yet showing how my son can

>sleep in his brace, but I can download them and send them to you

>tonight. I think you would really like this brace and could be really

>helpful to you. It is easy to obtain just the articulating bar, I

>believe there is another parent here from overseas who contacted Dr.

>Dobbs and he was able to get her the bar quickly. You can contact Dr.

>Dobbs at mattdobbs@... (mattdobbs @ earthlink.net without

>the spaces). Or if you would like I can contact him for you, I talk

>to him regularly. You can email me directly at jagrindon@...

>(jagrindon @ yahoo.com).

>

>HTH,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > Hello dearest parents.

> > It is noon here and I just finish reading all your comments. I went

> > to put Oshri's shoes for his nap time. I think he never complains

> > about the shoes when hi is napping and in deep sleep, so we really

> > have to take advantage of these hours. In a few month he mite not

> > nap any more.

> >

> > About the massage. I really feel it can work. Last night after I

> > read what wrote I read Oshri a book and massage his little

> > feet. He liked it, which was a surprise for me, and I liked it too.

> > Reading him and then singing to his feet. And now I read Kori's

> > letter and I remember that Oshri is watching 30 min of TV almost

> > every day, so yes it can be a perfect time for bonding, between

> > Oshri' the TV and myself (-:

> > , I'm so glad you wrote. We have a 3 years old boy in our

> > Clubfoot community who just had an operation lately. (he wasn't

> > treated in the Ponseti method). I'm sure his mother would be happy

> > to read your lines.

> >

> > I'm glad I wrote what I had in my belly. I felt for a ling time and

> > didn't won't to post it not to scare other parents. I always tell

> > other parents to try and put the shoes until the age of 4. You know,

> > before Oshri was born we went looking for a good Orthopedic Dr.

> > here. The one we have doesn't follow the protocol. He says, 23 hours

> > with the shoes `till the child is walking and than at night `till

> > the age 2 or 2.5. We didn't follow his instructions from the start.

> > Now, luckily there is a new Dr. at the clinic, one who worked in

> > Iowa and he back up our judgment of following the protocol.

> > Do you mean 's sandals by the PM? I was trying to go to

> > http://www.mdorthopaedics.org/default.html but it's not working.

> > Getting the Markell to Israel was hard. I'm not sure that the

> > will solve the problem.

> > I think his hurt because of the position of his legs that after some

> > hours it stars to hurt. At the beginning of the night he is o.k. but

> > when morning approaches or even at 2pm he is starting to complain. I

> > will try to shorten his bar tonight.

> >

> >

> > Oshri doesn't have a problem waking up with the bar, because I show

> > him the bar before I say `good night' and he than asks me to put the

> > shoes later. So he knows I'm doing it. (30 min ago we `fixed' the

> > bar together to make it shorter- it in night all ready- I didn't

> > have the time to finish at noon).

> >

> > The orthopedic Dr. drew us diagram explaining how the X legs are at

> > the maximum position at this age. So we have to wait and see if it

> > gets better. His hips are o.k. we had ultrasounds when Oshri was a

> > baby.

> >

> >

> > Thank you all for the kind and honest words. I printed all you

> > letters to be with mw for a while so I can read and remember the

> > advises.

> >

> > Thanks for the shoes offer. I actually don't know Oshri's size but

> > we will manage. (-:

> > Well, I'm going to put the shoes on.

> > Love you all

> > Idit

>

>

>

>

>

>

>