Re: Can an Autistic student be legaly denied Speech Therapy?

[Guest guest]

My son was barely 2 when we started with the county early intervention

program and they denied him speech because he was non verbal. Both of his ABA

teachers put in recommendations for speech on their quarterly reports, the

supervisor changed their recommendations and then submitted the reports. They

told

me speech was incorporated into ABA. He then went from no words to 200 words

in about 6 weeks and then they told me he had too much " language " to qualify

for speech. I told them he had words and not language. At our next IFSP

meeting I told the county coordinator she had better show up at my house with a

letter stating exactly why they were denying my son speech so that when I

contacted my lawyer and a child rights advocate I would have that information.

Funny thing....she showed up at the IFSP meeting with the name of his speech

therapist and an immediate start date.

Kerrie

In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:27:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

autismtookmickie@... writes:

Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked for

more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

over the holidays.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

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[Guest guest]

HE WAS GETTING TEN MINUTES OF SPEECH THERAPY??????

I'd take these folks to due process.

Zurama <autismtookmickie@...> wrote:

Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked for

more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

over the holidays.

I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my face.

She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant bi.....

The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and that's

when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide Mickie's

teacher with the device anyway.

Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

Zurama

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Zurama,

Sounds like you need an Independent Educational

Evaluation (IEE) by a real specialist in speech issues

in autism, and specific to his age level and non

verbal kids. If you ask around enough you may find

one. Definitely put it in writing to the school that

you disagree with the speech evaluation (the speech

person had to have an evaluation to base her

recommendations right) and since you disagree you are

requesting the IEE. Don't let them force you to use

someone they pick; really get an independent person.

I would never accept a schoolie's " opinion " without

adequate support data and in fact I would ask the

school to assign a different speech path to my son at

this point due to problems in the relationship. I

have had similar situation; I even notified them that

due to the bias of the speech path I rejected her

observations as well.

Not acceptable: I " think " he's normal... He doesn't

" need " it... he " gets along ok " the way he is... " the

school can't afford it " " I have 40 kids besides your

son " Any speech path who approaches me with phrases

like this better have the testing to back up a denial

of services.

10 minutes a week is not much to start with. I bet

another specialist (outside the school) would

recommend more speech than that for your son.

Good luck, you can do this. I have seen some of your

posts before, I know you have the fight in you for

your child.

Amy O

--- Zurama <autismtookmickie@...> wrote:

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie

> today and asked for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week

> he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist

> had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is

> ten the window of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was

> pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him

> instead.

>

> She repeated that the window was closed several time

> until I had to

> finally tell her to stop and not say another word,

> because I don't

> tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I

> wanted to jump

> across the table and strangle her, but instead tears

> ran down my face.

>

> She put the teacher and me down several times. What

> an arrogant bi.....

>

> The county principal suggested that a communication

> device be ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the

> activity he wanst

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him

> an opportunity to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs and the

> speech therapist,

> said no to that too and proceeded to spew her

> negative crap and that's

> when I told her to stop. The principal said she

> would provide Mickie's

> teacher with the device anyway.

>

> Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for

> denial of speech?

>

> Zurama

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Zurama,

I am not sure what others will think about the talking device but here is

what I have seen. Kids that are still stuggling to communicate have an array

of behaviours that often stem from not being able to communicate. Being able

to communicate through the talking machine may really open the window wider

for Mickie. My sister in law has a little brother (he is now 19) that just

aquired one of these machines. The parents wished he would have had it years

ago. He is actually now trying to talk. The words are far from

understandable to the outsider but it is obvious the brain is still making

connections. It may have been that the machine stimulated the brain to use

language and in a sort of backwards fashion, he is now trying to speak. (It

may have helped make a connection...who knows....) What I am saying is that

people are often afraid of alternate ways of our children communicating. My

girlfriend did not want her son to learn sign language because he was not

deaf. Little deaf children will often not even try to communicate verbally

at all until they learn sign. Now after 3 years of signing he is starting to

vocalize what he is signing. The connections are being made. He is thirteen.

As for the window of time....#@#@ that! Sorry I never feel the need to use

profanity except when I hear that darn window thing. All through high

school, I did not get math beyond adding subtracting multipling and

dividing...I barely passed advanced math classes. I put off taking general

math requirements for University because I knew it would be a struggle. Well

let me tell you, I understood it. I dont know how or when the connections

were made, but I was understanding math like it was second nature. I was 19!

I am still making connections... (and losing some too LOL...)

Taking a speech break may not be a bad thing. They will have to focus on him

to teach him to use the voice machine and that wont be a bad thing. It may

help in the end.

This is just my opinion.

Re: [ ] Can an Autistic student be legaly denied

Speech Therapy?

> HE WAS GETTING TEN MINUTES OF SPEECH THERAPY??????

> I'd take these folks to due process.

>

>

> Zurama <autismtookmickie@...> wrote:

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and

> asked for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

>

> She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my face.

>

> She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant bi.....

>

> The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and that's

> when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide Mickie's

> teacher with the device anyway.

>

> Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

>

> Zurama

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

How do I get an independent specialist?

I do have fight in me, but today I fell apart. I still haven't

recuperated.

I thought I would start by writing a letter to the principal. Is that

a good start?

Zurama

>

> > Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie

> > today and asked for

> > more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week

> > he had since

> > December were taken off too. The speech therapist

> > had been replaced

> > over the holidays.

> >

> > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is

> > ten the window of

> > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was

> > pointless and that

> > she was going to implement a pecs program for him

> > instead.

> >

> > She repeated that the window was closed several time

> > until I had to

> > finally tell her to stop and not say another word,

> > because I don't

> > tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I

> > wanted to jump

> > across the table and strangle her, but instead tears

> > ran down my face.

> >

> > She put the teacher and me down several times. What

> > an arrogant bi.....

> >

> > The county principal suggested that a communication

> > device be ordered

> > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the

> > activity he wanst

> > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him

> > an opportunity to

> > hear spoken language along with the pecs and the

> > speech therapist,

> > said no to that too and proceeded to spew her

> > negative crap and that's

> > when I told her to stop. The principal said she

> > would provide Mickie's

> > teacher with the device anyway.

> >

> > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for

> > denial of speech?

> >

> > Zurama

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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> Find them fast with Search.

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>

[Guest guest]

I'm all for the talking device, but the speech therapist said no,

because Mickie can not according to her use two types of

communications. The principal thought it would be a start, since he

would have to hear the task being spoken.

The device will be ordered for Mickie after all. The speech is off.

Zurama

> > Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and

> > asked for

> > more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> > December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> > over the holidays.

> >

> > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

> > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> > she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

> >

> > She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> > finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> > tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> > across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my face.

> >

> > She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant

bi.....

> >

> > The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

> > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

> > hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> > said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and that's

> > when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide Mickie's

> > teacher with the device anyway.

> >

> > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

> >

> > Zurama

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> > Search.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I have recently joined this group and feel so lost with everyone's

knowledge of biomedical interventions. Finally, I can contribute in a

knowledgeable way. I am an education advocate and can tell you that

this speech therapist had no legal standing to unilaterally make

decisions regarding your child without the IEP's team input. You are

50% of the IEP team, by the way.

First, she must show you the evaluation and it must be research and

evidence-based. Second, you do have a right to request an IEE as was

mentioned. You should write the superintendent of schools for your

district by certified mail. Third, there is a document by the

American Speech and Hearing Association that could help you

tremendously. It is called the " Roles and Responsibilities of the

School-Based Speech Language Pathologist " . In the back of that

document is a matrix that lists how much therapy a child should

receive based on their symptoms. Non-verbal children should have a

minimum of 90+ minutes of speech per week or daily speech of 30+

minutes. Fourth, there is a great website called www.wrightslaw.com

where you can research IEE's and how to ask for them.

You may e-mail me privately and I would be happy to give you free

advice on how best to handle this situation. Your child does have

federal and state protections from IDEA 2004.

My e-mail is edadvocate_jlindsey@....

Best of luck,

Joyce Lindsey

> >

> > > Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie

> > > today and asked for

> > > more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week

> > > he had since

> > > December were taken off too. The speech therapist

> > > had been replaced

> > > over the holidays.

> > >

> > > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is

> > > ten the window of

> > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was

> > > pointless and that

> > > she was going to implement a pecs program for him

> > > instead.

> > >

> > > She repeated that the window was closed several time

> > > until I had to

> > > finally tell her to stop and not say another word,

> > > because I don't

> > > tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I

> > > wanted to jump

> > > across the table and strangle her, but instead tears

> > > ran down my face.

> > >

> > > She put the teacher and me down several times. What

> > > an arrogant bi.....

> > >

> > > The county principal suggested that a communication

> > > device be ordered

> > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the

> > > activity he wanst

> > > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him

> > > an opportunity to

> > > hear spoken language along with the pecs and the

> > > speech therapist,

> > > said no to that too and proceeded to spew her

> > > negative crap and that's

> > > when I told her to stop. The principal said she

> > > would provide Mickie's

> > > teacher with the device anyway.

> > >

> > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for

> > > denial of speech?

> > >

> > > Zurama

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > Find them fast with Search.

> http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

> >

>

[Guest guest]

She said that Mickie had no speech or language, and that syllables and

humming and wistleing songs was not language. Then she went into what

the differences between speech, language and communication, blah,

blah, blah.

She kept talking and I could feel the room spinning.

Zurama

>

>

> My son was barely 2 when we started with the county early intervention

> program and they denied him speech because he was non verbal. Both

of his ABA

> teachers put in recommendations for speech on their quarterly

reports, the

> supervisor changed their recommendations and then submitted the

reports. They told

> me speech was incorporated into ABA. He then went from no words to

200 words

> in about 6 weeks and then they told me he had too much " language " to

qualify

> for speech. I told them he had words and not language. At our next

IFSP

> meeting I told the county coordinator she had better show up at my

house with a

> letter stating exactly why they were denying my son speech so that

when I

> contacted my lawyer and a child rights advocate I would have that

information.

>

> Funny thing....she showed up at the IFSP meeting with the name of

his speech

> therapist and an immediate start date.

>

> Kerrie

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:27:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> autismtookmickie@... writes:

>

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, but don't be entirely opposed to the communication device. My son

communicates primarily using a computer (in college!) but he is gaining more

speech all the time (and he is 27). He tells me that spelling out words and

seeing them helped with his apraxia.

We are getting longer and more complex sentences. Don't give up hope!

Barb

[ ] Can an Autistic student be legaly denied Speech

Therapy?

Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked for

more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

over the holidays.

I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my face.

She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant bi.....

The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and that's

when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide Mickie's

teacher with the device anyway.

Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

Zurama

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9:51 AM

[Guest guest]

Hello Zurama,

I am a special ed. teacher, as well as a parent of a special needs

child.

You have the right to fight this decision. Decent chance you will

succeed in not only maintaining, but increasing your child's

speech. First I would get either an advocate or a lawyer, or both.

You could probably do a web search with the name of your state

and " Special Ed Advocate " or the state and " Lawyer - special

education " . If you have a community mental health in your city,

call them. Since the speech therapist is already set on failure, I

would try to get a different therapist from the school. If she/he

thinks it won't work, that will make for some pretty poor therapy.

It wouldn't be that far off that the school district could end up

paying for private speech therapy!! Probably they will back down

once they know you are serious.

There is a tendency in the education community to scoff at parents

like us who are trying to " cure " our kids. As soon as they see we

are doing treatment, especially controversial treatments, they think

we have been tricked by a " quack " or they pity us and think we are

in denial. And really, they don't know anything about it, they are

educators, not doctors! But I don't feel they respect parents who

are doing treatment like this - suddenly we are seen as less

intelligent and gullible. I have seen this from the educator side

of the fence as well as the parent side. I do have to say, however,

that my daughter's teacher is fabulous and not condescending at all.

In this case I would go straight to the advocate/lawyer and skip

cajoling and convincing. It's past that.

If you can't find an advocate or lawyer, feel free to email me and

I'll see what I can find out.

Good luck! We are all with you!

Patty

[Guest guest]

Thank you .

Well yes the 10 minutes was ridicules, but at least it was a start.

The Principle seems like a really nice lady, very proper and very

optimistic, which is very important when you deal with kids like ours.

I hate that I allowed my self to cry in front of that speech

therapist. I was so angry, I couldn't see straight.

I'm glad Mickie story was able to help someone else's child. At least

some good can come out of so much pain.

I guess I have lived to fight another day!

Please give your boys a big hug for me.

Love,

Zurama

> >> > Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie

today and

> >> > asked for

> >> > more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> >> > December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> >> > over the holidays.

> >> >

> >> > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the

window of

> >> > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and

that

> >> > she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

> >> >

> >> > She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> >> > finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> >> > tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> >> > across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down

my face.

> >> >

> >> > She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant

> > bi.....

> >> >

> >> > The county principal suggested that a communication device be

ordered

> >> > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> >> > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an

opportunity to

> >> > hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> >> > said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and

that's

> >> > when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide

Mickie's

> >> > teacher with the device anyway.

> >> >

> >> > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of

speech?

> >> >

> >> > Zurama

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > ---------------------------------

> >> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> >> > Search.

> >> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

Oh no, I'm not against the communication device-the speech therapist

was against it. She just wants to implement the pecs and nothing else.

Many Autistic individuals say positive things about these

devices-including Donna (she wrote the book " Nobody Nowhere "

among others)

Zurama

>

> No, but don't be entirely opposed to the communication device. My

son communicates primarily using a computer (in college!) but he is

gaining more speech all the time (and he is 27). He tells me that

spelling out words and seeing them helped with his apraxia.

>

> We are getting longer and more complex sentences. Don't give up hope!

>

> Barb

> [ ] Can an Autistic student be legaly denied

Speech Therapy?

>

>

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

>

> She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my face.

>

> She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant

bi.....

>

> The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and that's

> when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide Mickie's

> teacher with the device anyway.

>

> Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

>

> Zurama

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1249 - Release Date:

1/29/2008 9:51 AM

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Patty. It means a lot coming from an educator.

She is very arrogant negative and only cares about what she thinks. I

think she is lazy. She doesn't do any one on one therapy for any of

the kids with autism in the whole school.

I am preparing some letter for tomorrow. I want her off Mickie's case.

I think it's good to have everything in writing, don't you think?

Zurama

>

> Hello Zurama,

>

> I am a special ed. teacher, as well as a parent of a special needs

> child.

>

> You have the right to fight this decision. Decent chance you will

> succeed in not only maintaining, but increasing your child's

> speech. First I would get either an advocate or a lawyer, or both.

> You could probably do a web search with the name of your state

> and " Special Ed Advocate " or the state and " Lawyer - special

> education " . If you have a community mental health in your city,

> call them. Since the speech therapist is already set on failure, I

> would try to get a different therapist from the school. If she/he

> thinks it won't work, that will make for some pretty poor therapy.

> It wouldn't be that far off that the school district could end up

> paying for private speech therapy!! Probably they will back down

> once they know you are serious.

>

> There is a tendency in the education community to scoff at parents

> like us who are trying to " cure " our kids. As soon as they see we

> are doing treatment, especially controversial treatments, they think

> we have been tricked by a " quack " or they pity us and think we are

> in denial. And really, they don't know anything about it, they are

> educators, not doctors! But I don't feel they respect parents who

> are doing treatment like this - suddenly we are seen as less

> intelligent and gullible. I have seen this from the educator side

> of the fence as well as the parent side. I do have to say, however,

> that my daughter's teacher is fabulous and not condescending at all.

>

> In this case I would go straight to the advocate/lawyer and skip

> cajoling and convincing. It's past that.

>

> If you can't find an advocate or lawyer, feel free to email me and

> I'll see what I can find out.

>

> Good luck! We are all with you!

> Patty

>

[Guest guest]

thank you Amy! I'll start researching at the website you sent me.Thank

you so much. I have a lot of work to do.

Zurama

> > >

> > > > Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for

> > Mickie

> > > > today and asked for

> > > > more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a

> > week

> > > > he had since

> > > > December were taken off too. The speech

> > therapist

> > > > had been replaced

> > > > over the holidays.

> > > >

> > > > I was told by the speech therapist that since he

> > is

> > > > ten the window of

> > > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech

> > was

> > > > pointless and that

> > > > she was going to implement a pecs program for

> > him

> > > > instead.

> > > >

> > > > She repeated that the window was closed several

> > time

> > > > until I had to

> > > > finally tell her to stop and not say another

> > word,

> > > > because I don't

> > > > tolerate that kind of negative talk about

> > Mickie. I

> > > > wanted to jump

> > > > across the table and strangle her, but instead

> > tears

> > > > ran down my face.

> > > >

> > > > She put the teacher and me down several times.

> > What

> > > > an arrogant bi.....

> > > >

> > > > The county principal suggested that a

> > communication

> > > > device be ordered

> > > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of

> > the

> > > > activity he wanst

> > > > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving

> > him

> > > > an opportunity to

> > > > hear spoken language along with the pecs and the

> > > > speech therapist,

> > > > said no to that too and proceeded to spew her

> > > > negative crap and that's

> > > > when I told her to stop. The principal said she

> > > > would provide Mickie's

> > > > teacher with the device anyway.

> > > >

> > > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds

> > for

> > > > denial of speech?

> > > >

> > > > Zurama

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > > Find them fast with Search.

> >

> http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

[Guest guest]

I sure will!

Zurama

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today

and asked for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

>

> She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my face.

>

> She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant bi.....

>

> The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and that's

> when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide Mickie's

> teacher with the device anyway.

>

> Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

>

> Zurama

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

A quality speech therapist should know that speech therapy isn't only

for spoken language. What a fool. Is she incapable of introducing

PECS or sign or communication boards to help Mickie communicate?

Do some research and generate a list of other ways people communicate

when they cannot speak. Go on University speech therapy department

websites and get that information from them. Print it out.

Mickie is entitled to speech therapy in the schools if he has a

speech need. Sounds like he does.

Your speech therapist is not the one who makes the final decision.

Get a copy of your IEP rights and see how you proceed when you don't

agree with the IEP terms. DON'T sign anything!!!

If this woman is the only SLP in your school, I'm sorry. If she is

not the only SLP in the school, insist that another therapist work

with your child. I don't think she will do her job. She doesn't

sound very professional.

Next meeting, bring a tape recorder or a friend to witness the

garbage that comes out of her mouth.

Pam

>

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked

for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window

of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

>

> She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my

face.

>

> She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant

bi.....

>

> The county principal suggested that a communication device be

ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity

to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and

that's

> when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide

Mickie's

> teacher with the device anyway.

>

> Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

>

> Zurama

>

[Guest guest]

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech every day [thanks

primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a window, it certainly is

not closed at 10.

And her entire statement is odd for another reason also. Speech

therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think PECS is part of ST,

then she does not appear to be qualified as a speech therapist.

> She repeated that the window was closed several time

Ask where she obtained that information.

> The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs

My son never did well with PECS, but many kids do.

One thing that was very helpful, was turning on the closed-captioning

on the television when I play videos [we don't watch television here,

except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3 learn to talk, and read.

We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids could play in the snow

with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was hurt. I asked where

he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he has some articulation

issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked which leg. After

several back-and-forth on this, he said " no mommy, I hurt my W-A-I-S-T " .

> Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

I agree with the independent assessment. You also want to ask for

their research and information on what is *appropriate* for him, which

they *should* be using in developing their recommendations.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Well Dana, she said that she based her opinion on the psychologist

report from back in 2004.

She was not against PECS, she was actually pushing for it, but was

against anything else including 1 on 1 speech and a communications

device. Hes tone was almost like she thought that Mickie was just a

complete idiot and therefore, he could not learn to talk, ever.

She said that THEY (Auties) are wired different.

The principal said what you said about the communications device being

a way for him to get used to hearing language whenever he pushed the

button for whatever the activity is.

Zurama

> > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window of

> > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> > she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

>

>

> My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech every day [thanks

> primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a window, it certainly is

> not closed at 10.

>

> And her entire statement is odd for another reason also. Speech

> therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think PECS is part of ST,

> then she does not appear to be qualified as a speech therapist.

>

>

> > She repeated that the window was closed several time

>

>

> Ask where she obtained that information.

>

>

> > The county principal suggested that a communication device be ordered

> > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity to

> > hear spoken language along with the pecs

>

>

> My son never did well with PECS, but many kids do.

>

> One thing that was very helpful, was turning on the closed-captioning

> on the television when I play videos [we don't watch television here,

> except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3 learn to talk, and read.

> We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids could play in the snow

> with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was hurt. I asked where

> he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he has some articulation

> issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked which leg. After

> several back-and-forth on this, he said " no mommy, I hurt my W-A-I-S-T " .

>

>

> > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

>

>

> I agree with the independent assessment. You also want to ask for

> their research and information on what is *appropriate* for him, which

> they *should* be using in developing their recommendations.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my Gosh!!! I just found out from regional center that the

Psychologist that tested Mickie last year is not qualified to test

Autistic students, so when they comeback with the reason that his

report was the reason for no speech for Mickie, now I have good piece

of information to fight back with.

Zurama

> > > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the

window of

> > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> > > she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

> >

> >

> > My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech every day [thanks

> > primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a window, it certainly is

> > not closed at 10.

> >

> > And her entire statement is odd for another reason also. Speech

> > therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think PECS is part of ST,

> > then she does not appear to be qualified as a speech therapist.

> >

> >

> > > She repeated that the window was closed several time

> >

> >

> > Ask where she obtained that information.

> >

> >

> > > The county principal suggested that a communication device be

ordered

> > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity he wanst

> > > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an

opportunity to

> > > hear spoken language along with the pecs

> >

> >

> > My son never did well with PECS, but many kids do.

> >

> > One thing that was very helpful, was turning on the closed-captioning

> > on the television when I play videos [we don't watch television here,

> > except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3 learn to talk, and read.

> > We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids could play in the snow

> > with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was hurt. I asked where

> > he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he has some articulation

> > issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked which leg. After

> > several back-and-forth on this, he said " no mommy, I hurt my

W-A-I-S-T " .

> >

> >

> > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of speech?

> >

> >

> > I agree with the independent assessment. You also want to ask for

> > their research and information on what is *appropriate* for him, which

> > they *should* be using in developing their recommendations.

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that a re-eval is necessary if they are basing IEP

recommendations on evalutations. If you have a local University with

a graduate speech/language program, that is a good place to start.

Provide a list of qualified SLPs or PhDs/MDs who can evaluate Mickie

and demand another eval.

My son's speech eval in 2004 has him non-verbal. I ran across a list

of word approximations I had made from 3/2004. There were less than

50 words; most of them pronounced incorrectly.

Today? My son's language is approaching age appropriate. Anything

can happen. I'd hate to think where we would be if everyone had

given up on my son.

I'm mad for you, Zurama. I can't even imagine how angry you are.

Won't it be satisfying to take this speech therapist DOWN!

Pam

> > > > > I was told by the speech therapist that since

> > he is ten the

> > window of

> > > > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech

> > was pointless and that

> > > > > she was going to implement a pecs program for

> > him instead.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech

> > every day [thanks

> > > > primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a

> > window, it certainly is

> > > > not closed at 10.

> > > >

> > > > And her entire statement is odd for another

> > reason also. Speech

> > > > therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think

> > PECS is part of ST,

> > > > then she does not appear to be qualified as a

> > speech therapist.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > She repeated that the window was closed

> > several time

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ask where she obtained that information.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > The county principal suggested that a

> > communication device be

> > ordered

> > > > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of

> > the activity he wanst

> > > > > and a recorded voice will say what it is,

> > giving him an

> > opportunity to

> > > > > hear spoken language along with the pecs

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My son never did well with PECS, but many kids

> > do.

> > > >

> > > > One thing that was very helpful, was turning on

> > the closed-captioning

> > > > on the television when I play videos [we don't

> > watch television here,

> > > > except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3

> > learn to talk, and read.

> > > > We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids

> > could play in the snow

> > > > with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was

> > hurt. I asked where

> > > > he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he

> > has some articulation

> > > > issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked

> > which leg. After

> > > > several back-and-forth on this, he said " no

> > mommy, I hurt my

> > W-A-I-S-T " .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds

> > for denial of speech?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree with the independent assessment. You

> > also want to ask for

> > > > their research and information on what is

> > *appropriate* for him, which

> > > > they *should* be using in developing their

> > recommendations.

> > > >

> > > > Dana

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

[Guest guest]

You should find a good advocate to take with you to your IEP

meetings. We found ours through the local chapter of the Autism

Society of America.

Anne

> > > > I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the

> window of

> > > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless

and that

> > > > she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

> > >

> > >

> > > My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech every day [thanks

> > > primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a window, it

certainly is

> > > not closed at 10.

> > >

> > > And her entire statement is odd for another reason also.

Speech

> > > therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think PECS is part

of ST,

> > > then she does not appear to be qualified as a speech therapist.

> > >

> > >

> > > > She repeated that the window was closed several time

> > >

> > >

> > > Ask where she obtained that information.

> > >

> > >

> > > > The county principal suggested that a communication device be

> ordered

> > > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of the activity

he wanst

> > > > and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an

> opportunity to

> > > > hear spoken language along with the pecs

> > >

> > >

> > > My son never did well with PECS, but many kids do.

> > >

> > > One thing that was very helpful, was turning on the closed-

captioning

> > > on the television when I play videos [we don't watch

television here,

> > > except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3 learn to talk, and

read.

> > > We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids could play in

the snow

> > > with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was hurt. I

asked where

> > > he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he has some

articulation

> > > issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked which leg.

After

> > > several back-and-forth on this, he said " no mommy, I hurt my

> W-A-I-S-T " .

> > >

> > >

> > > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds for denial of

speech?

> > >

> > >

> > > I agree with the independent assessment. You also want to ask

for

> > > their research and information on what is *appropriate* for

him, which

> > > they *should* be using in developing their recommendations.

> > >

> > > Dana

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Do you know what qualifications a psychologist have to have to

evaluate a student with low functioning autism and is there a specific

test name?

I am very angry. I never thought I would run into such a negative and

hopeless person withing the school system, at this day and age.

Zurama

> > > > > > I was told by the speech therapist that since

> > > he is ten the

> > > window of

> > > > > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech

> > > was pointless and that

> > > > > > she was going to implement a pecs program for

> > > him instead.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech

> > > every day [thanks

> > > > > primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a

> > > window, it certainly is

> > > > > not closed at 10.

> > > > >

> > > > > And her entire statement is odd for another

> > > reason also. Speech

> > > > > therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think

> > > PECS is part of ST,

> > > > > then she does not appear to be qualified as a

> > > speech therapist.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > She repeated that the window was closed

> > > several time

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ask where she obtained that information.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > The county principal suggested that a

> > > communication device be

> > > ordered

> > > > > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of

> > > the activity he wanst

> > > > > > and a recorded voice will say what it is,

> > > giving him an

> > > opportunity to

> > > > > > hear spoken language along with the pecs

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My son never did well with PECS, but many kids

> > > do.

> > > > >

> > > > > One thing that was very helpful, was turning on

> > > the closed-captioning

> > > > > on the television when I play videos [we don't

> > > watch television here,

> > > > > except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3

> > > learn to talk, and read.

> > > > > We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids

> > > could play in the snow

> > > > > with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was

> > > hurt. I asked where

> > > > > he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he

> > > has some articulation

> > > > > issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked

> > > which leg. After

> > > > > several back-and-forth on this, he said " no

> > > mommy, I hurt my

> > > W-A-I-S-T " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds

> > > for denial of speech?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with the independent assessment. You

> > > also want to ask for

> > > > > their research and information on what is

> > > *appropriate* for him, which

> > > > > they *should* be using in developing their

> > > recommendations.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dana

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > Find them fast with Search.

> http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Zurama,

I really don't know the answers to your questions. A few years ago I

contacted a PhD from Vanderbilt named Camarata. He was so

helpful. He is part of the Kennedy speech/language center and a long

time advocate of direct speech therapy for even our lower functioning

kids.

You might want to contact his wife, , first. The email I have

for her is:

mary.n.camarata@...

I think 's is stephen.m.camarata@...

could probably give you a list of appropriate testing tools and

maybe Dr. Camarata could even offer some advice? I don't know how

busy he is, but he took the time to answer a lot of my questions

years ago when I *just* had a child with language delays (before full

regression in to Autism).

Good luck to you. Google Dr. Camarata for more info. FYI: I don't

think he is a believer in supplements, chelation and such.

Pam

> > > > > > > I was told by the speech therapist that since

> > > > he is ten the

> > > > window of

> > > > > > > opportunity was permanently closed and speech

> > > > was pointless and that

> > > > > > > she was going to implement a pecs program for

> > > > him instead.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My #2 is almost 12. He is gaining new speech

> > > > every day [thanks

> > > > > > primarily to anti-virals]. *If* there is a

> > > > window, it certainly is

> > > > > > not closed at 10.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And her entire statement is odd for another

> > > > reason also. Speech

> > > > > > therapy includes PECS. So if she does not think

> > > > PECS is part of ST,

> > > > > > then she does not appear to be qualified as a

> > > > speech therapist.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > She repeated that the window was closed

> > > > several time

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ask where she obtained that information.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > The county principal suggested that a

> > > > communication device be

> > > > ordered

> > > > > > > for Mickie so that he can push on the inon of

> > > > the activity he wanst

> > > > > > > and a recorded voice will say what it is,

> > > > giving him an

> > > > opportunity to

> > > > > > > hear spoken language along with the pecs

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My son never did well with PECS, but many kids

> > > > do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > One thing that was very helpful, was turning on

> > > > the closed-captioning

> > > > > > on the television when I play videos [we don't

> > > > watch television here,

> > > > > > except videos]. This helped both #2 and #3

> > > > learn to talk, and read.

> > > > > > We went to the mountains yesterday, so the kids

> > > > could play in the snow

> > > > > > with their sleds. #3 hit a bump and said he was

> > > > hurt. I asked where

> > > > > > he was hurt and I thought he said his " leg " [he

> > > > has some articulation

> > > > > > issues]. So I repeated it back to him and asked

> > > > which leg. After

> > > > > > several back-and-forth on this, he said " no

> > > > mommy, I hurt my

> > > > W-A-I-S-T " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Can they do this? Being none verbal is grounds

> > > > for denial of speech?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I agree with the independent assessment. You

> > > > also want to ask for

> > > > > > their research and information on what is

> > > > *appropriate* for him, which

> > > > > > they *should* be using in developing their

> > > > recommendations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dana

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

______________________________________________________________________

> > ______________

> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> > > Find them fast with Search.

> > http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?

category=shopping

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Well Dana, she said that she based her opinion on the psychologist

> report from back in 2004.

So she has no opinion of her own, after working with him for however

long, so must base her opinion on a 3-year-old report?

> She was not against PECS, she was actually pushing for it, but was

> against anything else including 1 on 1 speech and a communications

> device.

I would still ask where she obtained her research and information.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Do not let this happen. Fight like hell for services, consider NACD,

read Dr. Bock's book and do whatever you think is best. How dare they

try to give up on him.

In , " Zurama "

<autismtookmickie@...> wrote:

>

> Because he is none-verbal? I had an IEP for Mickie today and asked

for

> more speech and was denied and the 10 minutes a week he had since

> December were taken off too. The speech therapist had been replaced

> over the holidays.

>

> I was told by the speech therapist that since he is ten the window

of

> opportunity was permanently closed and speech was pointless and that

> she was going to implement a pecs program for him instead.

>

> She repeated that the window was closed several time until I had to

> finally tell her to stop and not say another word, because I don't

> tolerate that kind of negative talk about Mickie. I wanted to jump

> across the table and strangle her, but instead tears ran down my

face.

>

> She put the teacher and me down several times. What an arrogant

bi.....

>

> The county principal suggested that a communication device be

ordered

> for Mickie so that he can push on the icon of the activity he wants

> and a recorded voice will say what it is, giving him an opportunity

to

> hear spoken language along with the pecs and the speech therapist,

> said no to that too and proceeded to spew her negative crap and

that's

> when I told her to stop. The principal said she would provide

Mickie's

> teacher with the device anyway.

>

> Can they do this? Being none verbal and none interested or short

> attention span grounds for denial of speech?

> I posted to other support groups and everyone seems to agree that

they

> can't.

>

> Zurama

>