Re: OT/Get Kids Vaccinated Or Else, Parents Told

November 15, 2007

This could have been avoided. If the parents did not want to

vaccinate or could not for other reasons, all of this could have been

taken care of before the deadline. Interesting that the AG thinks he

is going to jail people he can't find though.

>

> Get Kids Vaccinated Or Else, Parents Told

>

> Pr. 's Threatens Legal Action

>

> By for the Washington Post

> http://tinyurl.com/2jevda

>

> The parents of more than 2,300 Prince 's County

students

> who

> failed to get needed vaccinations could face fines of $50 a day and

up

> to 10

> days in jail if their children do not meet the state's immunization

> requirements, county officials said yesterday.

> The threat of legal action is a last resort after months in

which

> Prince 's has struggled to get its 131,000 students immunized

for

> chicken pox and hepatitis B, as mandated by the state. More than

2,300

> students have not been immunized and have been barred from attending

> schools, almost two months after a Sept. 20 deadline for meeting the

> requirement.

> " We can do this the easy way or the hard way, but it's got to

get

> done, " Prince 's State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey (D) said at a

> news

> conference in Upper Marlboro. " I'm willing to move forward with

legal

> action. "

> School officials have made calls, sent letters and conducted

home

> visits to make arrangements for free appointments for the needed

shots.

> But

> often the students' addresses and phone numbers have been outdated,

> making

> contacting them difficult. Other students have received the vaccines

> but

> failed to get the necessary booster shots.

> The school system turned to the justice system as a final

option

> and

> received the backing of Circuit Judge D. Missouri, the

county's

> administrative judge, and Circuit Judge C. Philip Nichols Jr., who

> handles

> juvenile matters.

> " This is an educational crisis, " said R. Owen Jr.,

> chairman of

> the school board. " This is a public health and a children's rights

> issue. "

> Nichols and Ivey sent another round of letters to the families

> still

> out of compliance. Nichols's letter ordered the parents to show up

at

> Prince

> 's Circuit Court for a court hearing and a free vaccine;

Ivey's

> letter

> warned that " unexcused absences by your child may subject you to a

> criminal

> charge. "

> They expect almost 1,700 children to show up Saturday with

their

> parents for the first in a series of Circuit Court hearings on the

> matter.

> School officials said the parents would receive a verbal reprimand

from

> the

> judge and be ordered to have their children immunized in the

> courthouse. The

> students would then be allowed to return to school.

> Parents who do not appear could face fines of $50 for each day

> they

> fail to get their children immunized after being charged. They also

> could

> serve up to 10 days in jail. Ivey said he hoped charging parents

would

> not

> be necessary.

> ad_icon

> " The goal is to get kids in school, not to put parents in

jail, "

> Ivey

> said.

> Missouri said he looked forward to talking to the parents who

had

> not

> gotten their children immunized, to understand why.

> " I'd like to know exactly what the reasons are because the

> reasons may

> be able to be addressed without ratcheting it up to this point, " he

> said.

> Schools officials said they were sorry the crisis had gone

this

> far,

> but that it needed to be solved immediately.

> " This has really, really been a difficult time for us, " said

> Betty

> Despenza-Green, the school system's chief of student services. " It

> hurts us

> when any child is out of school because he needs to be immunized,

and

> so we

> felt we needed to be creative. We need those students immunized. We

> need

> them in schools. "

>

November 15, 2007

It's illegal to deny children a public education due to their not being

vaccinated.

Every state has exemptions, and I am not sure why these families wouldn't be

allowed that.

This is just WRONG-- that's all I can say.

I thought this was AMERICA where people actually had the right to CHOOSE

what to do with their own lives?

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 15, 2007

sorry-- but I just had to add one more thought here, because my comment on

the right to choose made me ponder-- I wonder how many of these school

officials and the AG etc, are in favor of a woman's right to choose. If a woman

can

choose whether or not to have the right to kill her own child in utero, why is

it that a parent cannot choose to NOT get their child vaccinated?

None of this makes sense to me

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 16, 2007

The thinking is that while most people are vaccinated, there are some

cases where the vaccine doesnt " take " . For instance a woman may

think she is protected against German measles since she had a

vaccination,but in fact she is not if it didnt " take " . She becomes

pregnant, and has contact with a child who has German measles--her

fetus is in danger of Downs Syndrome. This is why even little boys

are vaccinated against German measles, even though if a boy got the

disease it wouldnt typically be a big problem for the boy. The

problem would be for a pregnant woman and her fetus. It is a herd

mentality, and unfortunately its a damned if you do/damned if you

dont situation.

I think it best to find a doc who will delay the schedule if you must

vaccinate, as well as assure of non-thimerisol preservatives, etc.

Also, the second MMR shot, usually given at age 5 is just one of

those herd things. Its to assure that if the first shot didnt take,

the second one will. Now here lies a problem. There are many cases

of severe adverse reactions in children whose first MMR wasnt a

problem, but the second one put their systems over the top. Wouldnt

it be better to check the child for antibodies, and just re-vaccinate

the one's whose didnt " take " . That would make sense and would

provide a safety net, but now we are talking health insurance money,

and the pull of Big Pharma which seems to be driving this train wreck

in the first place.

Unfortunately there are no perfect solutions.

>

> It's illegal to deny children a public education due to their not

being

> vaccinated.

> Every state has exemptions, and I am not sure why these families

wouldn't be

> allowed that.

>

> This is just WRONG-- that's all I can say.

> I thought this was AMERICA where people actually had the right to

CHOOSE

> what to do with their own lives?

>

> Becky

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

November 16, 2007

The Herd thing is great BUT some of us with autoimmune stuff have the

don't take thing. If it did not take the first time why would you

think it'd take the second?

> >

> > It's illegal to deny children a public education due to their

not

> being

> > vaccinated.

> > Every state has exemptions, and I am not sure why these families

> wouldn't be

> > allowed that.

> >

> > This is just WRONG-- that's all I can say.

> > I thought this was AMERICA where people actually had the right

to

> CHOOSE

> > what to do with their own lives?

> >

> > Becky

> >

> > ************************************** See what's new at

> http://www.aol.com

> >

November 16, 2007

I agree wholeheartedly. The herd thing is a bad idea, I think.

> > >

> > > It's illegal to deny children a public education due to their

> not

> > being

> > > vaccinated.

> > > Every state has exemptions, and I am not sure why these

families

> > wouldn't be

> > > allowed that.

> > >

> > > This is just WRONG-- that's all I can say.

> > > I thought this was AMERICA where people actually had the right

> to

> > CHOOSE

> > > what to do with their own lives?

> > >

> > > Becky

> > >

> > > ************************************** See what's new at

> > http://www.aol.com

> > >

November 16, 2007

I can't say the herd thing is bad. It is the current theory and we

are stuck with that. I think we need to consider things though like

the fact that when this theory began we were sharing outhouses, which

we no longer do. I still think responsible vaccination may have a

place in kids lumped together in daycare or school but I also think

we overvaccinate. For me and mine we'll see what stuck, what did not

and decide what to do from there.

> > > >

> > > > It's illegal to deny children a public education due to their

> > not

> > > being

> > > > vaccinated.

> > > > Every state has exemptions, and I am not sure why these

> families

> > > wouldn't be

> > > > allowed that.

> > > >

> > > > This is just WRONG-- that's all I can say.

> > > > I thought this was AMERICA where people actually had the

right

> > to

> > > CHOOSE

> > > > what to do with their own lives?

> > > >

> > > > Becky

> > > >

> > > > ************************************** See what's new at

> > > http://www.aol.com

> > > >

November 16, 2007

What if it happends to be against my religion to get vaccinations?

but it doesn't matter, no one should have to provide any excuse for

making choices about their children. Who does this guy think he is?

A tolatitarian dictator!!! This should go all the way to the U.S.

supreme court, and if they can't inforce the most basic principles of

the the constituion, then it's goodbye to freedom.

>

> Get Kids Vaccinated Or Else, Parents Told

>

> Pr. 's Threatens Legal Action

>

> By for the Washington Post

> http://tinyurl.com/2jevda

>

> The parents of more than 2,300 Prince 's County

students

> who

> failed to get needed vaccinations could face fines of $50 a day and

up

> to 10

> days in jail if their children do not meet the state's immunization

> requirements, county officials said yesterday.

> The threat of legal action is a last resort after months in

which

> Prince 's has struggled to get its 131,000 students immunized

for

> chicken pox and hepatitis B, as mandated by the state. More than

2,300

> students have not been immunized and have been barred from attending

> schools, almost two months after a Sept. 20 deadline for meeting the

> requirement.

> " We can do this the easy way or the hard way, but it's got to

get

> done, " Prince 's State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey (D) said at a

> news

> conference in Upper Marlboro. " I'm willing to move forward with

legal

> action. "

> School officials have made calls, sent letters and conducted

home

> visits to make arrangements for free appointments for the needed

shots.

> But

> often the students' addresses and phone numbers have been outdated,

> making

> contacting them difficult. Other students have received the vaccines

> but

> failed to get the necessary booster shots.

> The school system turned to the justice system as a final

option

> and

> received the backing of Circuit Judge D. Missouri, the

county's

> administrative judge, and Circuit Judge C. Philip Nichols Jr., who

> handles

> juvenile matters.

> " This is an educational crisis, " said R. Owen Jr.,

> chairman of

> the school board. " This is a public health and a children's rights

> issue. "

> Nichols and Ivey sent another round of letters to the families

> still

> out of compliance. Nichols's letter ordered the parents to show up

at

> Prince

> 's Circuit Court for a court hearing and a free vaccine;

Ivey's

> letter

> warned that " unexcused absences by your child may subject you to a

> criminal

> charge. "

> They expect almost 1,700 children to show up Saturday with

their

> parents for the first in a series of Circuit Court hearings on the

> matter.

> School officials said the parents would receive a verbal reprimand

from

> the

> judge and be ordered to have their children immunized in the

> courthouse. The

> students would then be allowed to return to school.

> Parents who do not appear could face fines of $50 for each day

> they

> fail to get their children immunized after being charged. They also

> could

> serve up to 10 days in jail. Ivey said he hoped charging parents

would

> not

> be necessary.

> ad_icon

> " The goal is to get kids in school, not to put parents in

jail, "

> Ivey

> said.

> Missouri said he looked forward to talking to the parents who

had

> not

> gotten their children immunized, to understand why.

> " I'd like to know exactly what the reasons are because the

> reasons may

> be able to be addressed without ratcheting it up to this point, " he

> said.

> Schools officials said they were sorry the crisis had gone

this

> far,

> but that it needed to be solved immediately.

> " This has really, really been a difficult time for us, " said

> Betty

> Despenza-Green, the school system's chief of student services. " It

> hurts us

> when any child is out of school because he needs to be immunized,

and

> so we

> felt we needed to be creative. We need those students immunized. We

> need

> them in schools. "

>

November 16, 2007

That's actually the whole point behind " herd " immunity. If there are

some folks that don't seroconvert (i.e. " take " ) they will still be

protected because the " herd " (the general population) is immune. The

biggest group protected by herd immunity are those who are

immunocompromised.... mainly cancer patients, those with HIV disease

and those with immunodeficiencies.

Years ago I worked in a pediatric oncology (cancer) practice. By the

nature of the type of kids you are seeing you are going to lose

patients due to their death. But... in the first year of treatment

our highest cause of death was not cancer... it was a secondary

infection. Namely.... chicken pox. Out of a population of our

regular patients (75 to 100 kids) we would lose about 10 a year to

chicken pox. Not leukemia, not the brain tumors but chicken pox.

Why? Because if you are immunocompromised chicken pox is a death

sentence. It automatically runs rampant and you are guaranteed that

you'll end up with a kid with encephalitis. Because of lack of herd

immunity (this was prior to the varicella vaccine) we had no way of

knowing who would make it through their first year of treatment and

who would not. We knew who had the genetic markers and progression

of disease to indicate that they may not do well but.... we had no

way of knowing who would fall to an infection. And... we could do

all that we could about sterile fields, avoiding the ill, etc to

protect them. The problem came from the fact that many of the

diseases/infections that would kill them are contagious prior to

showing any symptoms (i.e. chicken pox).

So imagine... your kid has leukemia and he is on the 5 year protocol

(treatment for childhood leukemia is a long process). Your kid is

doing well. He got past his first 3 months (the hardest part) and

he's cruising along and he's in remission. You do what you can to

keep him washing his hands, avoiding anyone who appears ill and

you've just gotten the word that your child is doing well and as long

as he stays in remission, he should be able to conquer this thing.

You start living a normal life while still taking all the

precautions. But you now feel it is okay to go to the mall, take the

family out to dinner at a restaurant, etc. And then you wake up one

morning and your kid has a high temp so you call the oncologist. You

bring him in to be seen and he's lethargic. By nightfall lab tests

show he has chicken pox, which you thought was no big deal but for

some reason your child is unresponsive. And within 3 days he's

dead. Not from the cancer you feared so much and not from one of the

big infections that you tried to keep away at all costs. Nope. He's

dead because he got near someone, someone not showing any symptoms,

of chicken pox.

This is why herd immunity is so important. We lose kids each year to

vaccine preventable illnesses. But we lose even more kids and adults

because even though they themselves had been vaccinated for one of

these illnesses they are no longer immune because of cancer

treatments. Often they have a cancer diagnosis that they should,

really, be able to survive. But a simple case of chicken pox, mumps,

etc can kill them in a matter of days. All because there was a

breakdown in " herd immunity " .

So this is one reason the CDC is so adamant about vaccines. And this

is what they are terrified about. They know that our rates of

measles, etc could rise if folks stop vaccinating but the deaths that

may occur from that, while bad, are not their big fear. It is the

possibility that death rates will skyrocket from treatable illnesses

(i.e. some cancers, immune disorders, etc) and that there will be no

way to keep folks safe. (If someone doesn't have symptoms and they

sneeze within 5 feet of you... you're contaminated. How are going to

tell folks to avoid this risk? You can't.)

This is one reason that at last weeks National Autism Conference all

the DAN doctors that spoke all stated that they felt that vaccines

were very necessary. Even those docs that I see quoted here all the

time about how " anti vaccine " they are were standing up over and over

again saying that we need vaccines. Our society cannot return to

living with the pediatric death rate we had in the 1920's to 1940's.

We just cannot do that. It is the safety of the vaccines that must

be monitored and figuring out which kids are predisposed to having a

bad outcome (i.e. one or both parents have an auto immune disorder,

one or both parents has a history of chrohns/IBS, one or both

parents have extensive environmental allergies or history of asthma,

another child in the family already has a neurodevelopmental disorder).

Go to the conference's website.... order some of the dvd's from the

conference. (http://www.nationalautismconference.org/). It was very

balanced included DAN docs (who were saying that we need vaccines in

this country and that they are not anti-vaccine) and NIH researchers

who are trying to work with DAN docs. My best friend went and after

hearing about her trip I started digging around on the website and

reading all I could. I was so happy to see the leading DAN

researchers working together with Non-DAN researchers AND the NIH. I

think that is finally a move in the right direction. This attitude

that only DAN is right and all traditional medicine is wrong, or vice

versa, is getting us no where. We need to take what each group

knows and each group's research and bring it together. Only then

will we start to make real progress.

Kris

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Nov 16, 2007, at 11:40 AM, ilizzy03 wrote:

> The Herd thing is great BUT some of us with autoimmune stuff have the

> don't take thing. If it did not take the first time why would you

> think it'd take the second?

>

November 16, 2007

Thanks Kris. That darn chickenpox is why I am unwilling, despite

autoimmune stuff, to just clearly say no to vaccines altogether. I

had chickenpox during my first pregnancy. That baby, miracle#1, is my

obviously immune-compromised kid. A celiac expert declared her celiac

yesterday but we have no proof via scope. My mom, at age 31, died of

lymphoma, a long-term complication of celiac. Was it celiac, we don't

know. What we do know is that when she died she was actually doing

well but was immune-compromised due to treatment. Her actual cause of

death was a stomach virus.

>

> > The Herd thing is great BUT some of us with autoimmune stuff have

the

> > don't take thing. If it did not take the first time why would you

> > think it'd take the second?

> >

>

November 17, 2007

Kris-

While I appreciate that you have your views, I just cannot agree with

people being forced to be immunized just for " herd immunity " .

I feel that the dangers involved with the vaccinations and the numbers

behind all these millions of neuro- damaged children, and deaths caused by

vaccines, is JUST AS MUCH of a problem as those who are immuno-suppressed who

die

from a secondary infection due to something like chicken pox.

To FORCE people to go against their God-given RIGHT to take care of their

own bodies in the way that THEY FEEL IS BEST, is just wrong-- period, end of

story. NO ONE should be forced to vaccinate-- this is America, not Communist

Russia.

And again, I DO highly respect you and your opinions, but I just do not

feel that it is EVER right to tell one group of people that their physical

needs

are more important than another group's physical needs. People have the

right to choose

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007

In a message dated 11/16/2007 5:55:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

Thanks Kris. That darn chickenpox is why I am unwilling, despite

autoimmune stuff, to just clearly say no to vaccines altogether

Well, here's the thing though folks-- the chicken pox virus and the LACK of

efficacy with it, is causing more problems then the wild version of the

virus-- so what's the help there?

Just for the record, my 8 yr old son JUST got over the chicken pox last

week. Every single one of my kids were exposed to the same source-- and he was

the only one that contracted them. (of course there's the 3 wk incubation

period that we are now in with the others wondering if they contracted

anything)

I did some back-tracking with the cases that preceeded his, and he got them

from a child who got a FULL-BLOWN case (not a small break-out case) and the

child was JUST vaccinated.

So what am I saying? Herd immunity just doesn't cut it in my book. You can

force all the people you want to get a vaccination, but I believe that it

can cause just as much, and possibly MORE damage if you fool with mother nature

to this extent.

My son's chicken pox was caused BY THE VACCINE, and not the wild virus-- so

what good is that CP vaccine, and what good is that " herd immunity " there?

Before anyone says that it's rare to catch CP from a child who's received

the vaccine, I just also want to mention that my now 18 yr old daughter caught

the CP from a little boy in school when she was in 3rd gr, and he was

contagious from the vaccine. There were 5 other students at their table ALONE

that

contracted CP FROM THAT SAME CHILD. Surprise of all surprises (not really

for me) there was a CP " outbreak " in their school that year. Unfortunately

however, it all was sourced back to that child who got the CP vaccine and was

contagious and still went to school.

So I'm going to through out a thought here-- for others to ponder, and for

whatever it's worth.

Could it be possible that we're going to see MORE CP outbreaks BECAUSE of

the vaccine because what people don't realize is that they get their kids vaxxed

with the Varicella one, and they don't realize that it's a LIVE VIRUS

vaccine, and therefore, their child *IS* contagious and *IS* shedding the virus

even though they were vaccinated??? How many moms out there do you know that

actually realize that their kids are contagious with CP after that vaccine??

How many kids do you know who get the vaccine and go to school the next day

without a thought?

I'm just suggesting that maybe we're getting into more trouble than we

bargained for with the live virus vaccine without properly EDUCATING people as

to

their children being contagious and possibly spreading the virus to COUNTLESS

others.

I wonder how many confirmed CP cases are due to the Wild virus as compared

to the Attenuated vaccine version? Guess there's really no way to even TRY to

track this at this point since it's been going on for what, 10 yrs now since

the vaccine came out?

Someone mentioned immuno-suppressed people contracting CP, but how is it

that they can guarantee that they are contracting CP from NON-Vaccinators as

compared to VACCINATORS who are contagious?? I wonder if those people would ever

even be exposed to someone carrying the wild version of the virus, and I

wonder if they would be safer if LESS people got the live virus vaccine.

Has anyone thought about that? just curious--

Becky-- who has 3 kids of 3 that have had chicken pox CAUSED BY the

vaccine!!!!

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007

In a message dated 11/17/2007 12:34:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tbniesh@... writes:

So I'm going to through out a thought here

LOL that should say THROW not through

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November 17, 2007

In a message dated 11/17/2007 2:05:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

The case that does better emphasize this issue is the baby taken from

the parents and put in foster care and vaccinated against their

wishes. As I understand it the sole reason the child was taken from

them was to be vaccinated. That is a case I can get fired up about.

That, I believe, was also in land.

Now THAT is a case where I just don't understand it all. That is just

disgusting and downright WRONG, and we can ALL Agree to that much, I would

think!!!

<sigh>

I'm not surprised mind you-- but it's still just wrong

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007

In a message dated 11/17/2007 4:49:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

catnip9@... writes:

Please tell me where on my post it said that I agree with forcing

people to vaccinate for the purpose of herd immunity? Please post a

direct quote where I said that I believe families should be legally

forced to vaccinate! I posted a comment to explain the theory of

herd immunity and how herd immunity works to protect those who don't

respond to being vaccinated. So please.... enlighten me (and others)

and post the quotes where I directly state that you should be legally

forced to vaccinate.

Becky, you have a repeated problem with posting inflammatory comments

that cannot be backed up with actual references and now you are

personally attacking me for explaining herd immunity and the

reasoning behind it. Your tactic is that if you cannot find the

research to counter the stand of another poster then you personally

attack them. No where did I say that I agree with parents being

forced to immunize. Once again you are being inflammatory and highly

inappropriate. Doing so does not help your argument, it only causes

more division.

Kris-

I was absolutely NOT being inflammatory in my comments, and I resent your

saying this yet AGAIN to me. I simply carry a different opinion than y our

own, and because I state that opinion *I* am making inflammatory statements??

I

don't understand your reasoning.

First of all, this whole post was ORIGINIATED due to families who *ARE*

being forced to vaccinate, and I simply have been replying to this POST and to

this subject in general. Nowhere AT ALL, do I see where I spoke to you directly,

where I mentioned you personally, or where I attacked you personally.

Please feel free to find those posts where I spoke to YOU in any way other

than a general response to the list as a whole.

You said that I have a repeated problem with posting inflammatory comments

that I cannot back up with references. I've made only a couple of comments in

regards to vaccinations, and all of a sudden I

" have a repeated problem " I find that to be RIDICULOUS! Your comments to

me are rude, accusatory and out of place. I am a bit sick of them, quite

honestly.

I am not on this list to discuss vaccines or DEFEND my rights as an American

citizen to choose not to vaccinate my children to protect their own health.

I alone can make that decision, as you can make yours, but I am sick of

having to defend those opinions to you here on the list. I could go into my

children's histories and give you the reasons and FACTS of why we choose not to

vaccinate, but I don't have the time nor inclination to bother with all of it.

If people want to know off list-- that's fine, I'd be happy to share. But I

won't share my life with someone like yourself who has a repeated problem with

bashing a fellow board member.

(See how those words turned around at you might be considered slightly

rude???)

If you took my words to be directed to YOU personally, I am sorry, as that

was NOT where I was directing my words. I was posting to a general list

audience, not to a party of one. I'm sorry you're upset with me, but I will no

longer tolerate your telling me that I have a problem with making inflammatory

comments, and telling me I am attacking you when I am simply discussing a

topic.

I am really tiring of this list being so touchy on this subject. It's

obvious that vaccinations are an extremely touchy subject, so why is it even

being

posted about in the first place? Why are people posting topics about

vaccines and then others getting upset that I am actually voicing my personal

opinions??

No longer will I voice my opinions on this subject, which is unfortunate

because I am sure that one day a new list member could come to this board

looking for some guidance and *personal experience with vaccines, and because of

your comments to me, they will not get a response. That's pretty sad, but

seriously, I'm just DONE with discussing this topic. I don't need to be

harassed

by you with your comments, and I certainly don't need to back up my comments

to you-- because while YOU have not seen the truth in some facts, I can't

help that. I've done 10 yrs of research, and I am not about to waste time

trying to convince you of anything.

I'm done-- feel free not to reply-- I'm fine with that

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007

I should clarify, that yes, Kris, I did RESPOND to you by using your post,

and directing you by name, but my post itself was a generalality and was not

against YOU PERSONALLY.

This thread started because families ARE being forced to vaccinate their

children, and THAT is the subject matter that I am responding to, and the theory

behind herd immunization. I am not an idiot, and I am well aware of what

that theory is, but I do not agree that it's efficient, or necessary.

Enough said

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007

While imperfect, there are exemptions available though I am not sure

in all states. I do think though this land case is not the case

for advocacy. I bet all who did not vaccinate had no big

beliefs....they probably just did not get around to it. Plus the

original article hinted at some moving with no forwarding address so

who knows the true #s.

The case that does better emphasize this issue is the baby taken from

the parents and put in foster care and vaccinated against their

wishes. As I understand it the sole reason the child was taken from

them was to be vaccinated. That is a case I can get fired up about.

That, I believe, was also in land.

>

> Kris-

>

> While I appreciate that you have your views, I just cannot agree

with

> people being forced to be immunized just for " herd immunity " .

> I feel that the dangers involved with the vaccinations and the

numbers

> behind all these millions of neuro- damaged children, and deaths

caused by

> vaccines, is JUST AS MUCH of a problem as those who are immuno-

suppressed who die

> from a secondary infection due to something like chicken pox.

>

> To FORCE people to go against their God-given RIGHT to take care of

their

> own bodies in the way that THEY FEEL IS BEST, is just wrong--

period, end of

> story. NO ONE should be forced to vaccinate-- this is America,

not Communist

> Russia.

>

> And again, I DO highly respect you and your opinions, but I just

do not

> feel that it is EVER right to tell one group of people that their

physical needs

> are more important than another group's physical needs. People

have the

> right to choose

>

> Becky

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

November 17, 2007

In a message dated 11/17/2007 6:26:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

catnip9@... writes:

My original post (as indicated by my quote) was directed to the

discussion over herd immunity. I still see no quote from you

indicating where I stated I was in favor or forcing parents to

vaccinate. I would still like to see where you got that information

from.

Kris-

(I Will direct this to you since you asked me a question)

This post was originally started because there are families who are being

forced to vaccinate their children, was it not? I was replying and giving MY

OPINION as to this thread and this subject . It was addressed to you simply

because you mentioned herd immunity, and the first paragraph, I said that I

respected your views but that I cannot get behind the herd immunity idea.

Nowhere did I tell you that YOU were in favor of forcing parents to vaccinate. I

was speaking about generalities with THIS TOPIC that was originated.

Next time I will be clearer, and direct what needs to be directed to you,

and then I guess I must separate my personal opinions and make it perfectly

clear that I am stating my opinion?

When reading my email, I thought it was clear that my statements are my

opinions, but maybe you didnt' read it as such

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007

In a message dated 11/17/2007 6:53:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

Are they being forced to vaccinate? Or isn't the story that they are

being told to vaccinate or waiver now as this is past the deadline.

I believe that somewhere it said that the children were not welcome in

school UNTIL THEY WERE VACCINATED. I read that as though they will bully the

parents into vaccinating the children in order to receive an education in that

school system.

I could be wrong?

Becky

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

November 17, 2007