Re: Re: For those of you who are dairy free....

[Guest guest]

We originally eliminated dairy on the advice of her allergist (not from advice

from other parents) She was experiencing similar symptoms that had been

appearing gradually over the last few years along with her symptoms of dyspraxia

which had not changed much since age 3. She was allergy tested and it didn't

show an allergy to milk, but the dr. recommended eliminating and seeing if it

made a difference. It did! We saw a huge surge, and symptoms disappeared for

well over a month, she had her first formed bm in years. We do not supplement

with anything other than the prescribed probiotics (also by her allergist) so

the surge was valid in my opinion. I am not against supplementing, I just don't

want to do anything without her levels being tested first. We have appointment

with a Ped GI dr (3/5) and a genetics dr. specializing in metabolic (3/20) I

was simply looking for some practical advice for people who had eliminated dairy

for longer than me....so sorry to have made you upset on Valentine's day.

Imagine mine for a moment after having a child vomit for 12 of the last 21 days

and yes had to see her at deaths door and be so week she can't attend school.

Every dr. who has seen her so far has told me she does not a have a viral or

bacterial illness...

[ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy free....

Barbara I wonder why you would eliminate milk from your child's diet

in the first place -unless she was allergic to it -which is rare.

" Our results demonstrated an actual prevalence of cow's milk allergy

in patients on milk elimination diets (4%) to be significantly lower

than the number of patients prescribed such diets (24.2%)-confirming

that this measure is being applied excessively. "

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1525-1470.2007.00323.x

And besides being she is 7 and only off milk for 3 months I'm sure

you would have known prior to this if she had a true allergy. Boy

after reading what some of you guys are going through today I'm glad

that when Tanner was first diagnosed that we all knew that stuff like

this was a waste of time anyway for those that did it. Most of us have enough

to worry about without the added pressures of special diets!

I do hope she is feeling better...back to the MD I guess if not?

To the new members

once again -most of us do NOT pull our children off milk unless they

have celiac or some other medical condition that warrents it..

And if people say there was a surge eliminating milk -but at the same

time they are supplementing with fish oils (and now E) well almost all

saw amazing surges! (with milk) It's as if I fed Tanner Teddy Grahams while he

was in therapy and taking fish oils and having amazing surges -

should I have credited the Teddy Grahams?!

Or if I gave him milk -should I credit the milk?!

I get upset about advice that flu like symptoms we all get when we

have...the flu... are a sign of " yeast die off " because dehydration

is a very severe situation in young children so signs of it need

medical attention. Dehydration is not a good sign! Children throw

up and get diarrhea for many reasons -and after they get better they

can be weak for a bit. If some of you choose to follow restrictive

diets then you have to listen to " it's a sign of yeast die off " and

other bad advice. This link doesn't appear to be a credible source

either -but even from this site they are saying that " yeast die off "

signs are a bad sign. (if you find something from a credible source

please post it -all I find are sites that anyone could have put up

last night)

" Be aware that contrary to popularly held misconception, yeast die-

off reactions are not a sign that yeast treatment is succeeding. It

is an indication that yeast cells are dying, usually in large

numbers, and is more of an indicator of the system's toxic overload.

More poisons are being released than the body can adequately cope

with at one time. In most cases, yeast die-off is a sign that the

system's eliminatory pathways are overburdened or as oftentimes

happens, blocked, as in constipation and liver stress. When properly

undertaken, treatment for yeast related health problems does not lead

to yeast die-off reactions. "

http://www.modernherbalist.com/dieoff.html

And why do these type of messages make me so upset (I mean come on

this is Valentine's Day!)

Archive I wrote in 2002

" I really don't know much about the gluten casein free diet even

though I was raised on it because again it's one of the horrible

memories of my childhood -not blaming it on the diet -the diet saved

my life -but again, I was just a child and it just didn't seem fair

I had to go without.

It seems ironic that I'm now surrounded by people putting their

child on the very diet I was raised on -and for some strange reason -

perhaps due to my lack of making myself clear -believing that I

would attack a parent for putting their child on a diet they believe

would help their child.

My mom -who I love more than anyone in the entire world put me on

that diet which is what saved my life. My mom and dad also rushed

me to the hospital anytime my illness from the celiac disease was

bad -and back then they didn't know as much as today -but back then

they were very aware of the dangers of dehydration -something it

appears some of you may have forgotten. I tell you it's not a good

feeling to be close to death from dehydration -and I know it.

A thin celiac child who is vomiting is very much in risk of

dehydration. So please let's not even mention the diet part -it's

irrelevant to me. Again since it's the diet that kept me healthy -

I'm not sure why there is such strong belief that fever, vomiting,

diarrhea, not eating in days, and extreme lethargy -all reported

here in the mother's own words-are attributed to a diet and not to

an illness.

This is why, again -I'm so glad that we agree no matter what the

reason for the " fever, vomiting, diarrhea, not eating in days, and

extreme lethargy " get your child to a doctor who takes this

seriously -or an ER. Maybe that's one of the reasons I lived -to

share that message. "

=====

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your experience. We are getting as much medical help as

possible. We have been to a neurodevelopment ped, and have appointments with a

genetic dr specializing metabolics and a ped GI dr. Hopefully someone can give

us some answer on improving her situation, she is already a skinny mini, she

can't afford to lose any more weight!!!

Barbara

[ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy free....

This is scary and warrants true medical opinion. We only had lots of

pee with dairy reintro via cheese but gluten was introduced on the

same day. Today I made an omlette in goats butter. Mistake. Diarrhea,

stretoreah (sp). I thought goars butter was allowed. He only had two

pices.

Not sure what this all is.

>

> My daughter (7) has been dairy free for about 3 months now. I try

to be very strict, but you know how it is when your child isn't with

you...anyway she has been throwing up on occasion for the last 2 1/2

weeks. Probably once or twice a week, but with no fever, or any

other symptom. She also experienced diarrhea once or twice in that

time. last week we had a major slip and she had a brownie one day

and a cookie with white chocolate and butter the next. She started

vomiting Friday night and didn't stop. She ended up in the hospital

being dehydrated. They did a GI series and blood work and once

hydrated they let her go home. That was Tuesday. She is still weak

and not eating much at all. Her bm's are not formed, she has had

hives over the last few days. Could this be from the dairy products

or something else? She has had a celiac panel done and it came back

negative. I am so worried about her! Does your child react like

this to dairy after being off of it for a time?

>

> Barbara

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

and all concerned,

To clarify, in no way was I implying that yeast die off is a good thing, or that

it is something to be taken lightly. I even said I have no idea if that is

indeed what is happening. In light of what I read was this mom's frustration at

getting no answers from her physicians and being very concerned, I thought it

might be an avenue she had not considered. It could be worth investigating. It

very well may be a waste of time, as this certainly could be the flu.

I appologize if I contributed to the issue at hand.

As evidenced by much of the posts lately, there is a real tension on this list

serve regarding biomed/diets/autism/ and all things related. For whatever

reason, and all of them are valid, there is a divide in our community regarding

these interventions and their necessity. There is also much needed debate about

their effectiveness, safety and purpose.

I only respond to posts regarding biomed simply because it is almost entirely

responsible for our daughter's recovery from Autism and moderate Apraxia. When I

see other mothers on this list, starting where I did 4 years ago, I try to reach

out a hand in guidance. This message board is often a spring board for parents

figuring out what is wrong with their children and how to help them.

That being said, I have debated for a long time whether or not I have

over-stayed my welcome. I realize now I have. In all sincerity, , God Bless

You for what you have done for not just my child, but for so many others. You

may never know the true impact you have had on so very many lives.

I wish you all luck in your children's healing and happiness.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Barbara I wonder why you would eliminate milk from your child's diet

in the first place -unless she was allergic to it -which is rare.

" Our results demonstrated an actual prevalence of cow's milk allergy

in patients on milk elimination diets (4%) to be significantly lower

than the number of patients prescribed such diets (24.2%)—confirming

that this measure is being applied excessively. "

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1525-1470.2007.00323.x

And besides being she is 7 and only off milk for 3 months I'm sure

you would have known prior to this if she had a true allergy. Boy

after reading what some of you guys are going through today I'm glad

that when Tanner was first diagnosed that we all knew that stuff like

this was a waste of time anyway for those that did it. Most of us have enough to

worry about without the added pressures of special diets!

I do hope she is feeling better...back to the MD I guess if not?

To the new members

once again -most of us do NOT pull our children off milk unless they

have celiac or some other medical condition that warrents it..

And if people say there was a surge eliminating milk -but at the same

time they are supplementing with fish oils (and now E) well almost all

saw amazing surges! (with milk) It's as if I fed Tanner Teddy Grahams while he

was in therapy and taking fish oils and having amazing surges -

should I have credited the Teddy Grahams?!

Or if I gave him milk -should I credit the milk?!

I get upset about advice that flu like symptoms we all get when we

have...the flu... are a sign of " yeast die off " because dehydration

is a very severe situation in young children so signs of it need

medical attention. Dehydration is not a good sign! Children throw

up and get diarrhea for many reasons -and after they get better they

can be weak for a bit. If some of you choose to follow restrictive

diets then you have to listen to " it's a sign of yeast die off " and

other bad advice. This link doesn't appear to be a credible source

either -but even from this site they are saying that " yeast die off "

signs are a bad sign. (if you find something from a credible source

please post it -all I find are sites that anyone could have put up

last night)

" Be aware that contrary to popularly held misconception, yeast die-

off reactions are not a sign that yeast treatment is succeeding. It

is an indication that yeast cells are dying, usually in large

numbers, and is more of an indicator of the system's toxic overload.

More poisons are being released than the body can adequately cope

with at one time. In most cases, yeast die-off is a sign that the

system's eliminatory pathways are overburdened or as oftentimes

happens, blocked, as in constipation and liver stress. When properly

undertaken, treatment for yeast related health problems does not lead

to yeast die-off reactions. "

http://www.modernherbalist.com/dieoff.html

And why do these type of messages make me so upset (I mean come on

this is Valentine's Day!)

Archive I wrote in 2002

" I really don't know much about the gluten casein free diet even

though I was raised on it because again it's one of the horrible

memories of my childhood -not blaming it on the diet -the diet saved

my life -but again, I was just a child and it just didn't seem fair

I had to go without.

It seems ironic that I'm now surrounded by people putting their

child on the very diet I was raised on -and for some strange reason -

perhaps due to my lack of making myself clear -believing that I

would attack a parent for putting their child on a diet they believe

would help their child.

My mom -who I love more than anyone in the entire world put me on

that diet which is what saved my life. My mom and dad also rushed

me to the hospital anytime my illness from the celiac disease was

bad -and back then they didn't know as much as today -but back then

they were very aware of the dangers of dehydration -something it

appears some of you may have forgotten. I tell you it's not a good

feeling to be close to death from dehydration -and I know it.

A thin celiac child who is vomiting is very much in risk of

dehydration. So please let's not even mention the diet part -it's

irrelevant to me. Again since it's the diet that kept me healthy -

I'm not sure why there is such strong belief that fever, vomiting,

diarrhea, not eating in days, and extreme lethargy -all reported

here in the mother's own words-are attributed to a diet and not to

an illness.

This is why, again -I'm so glad that we agree no matter what the

reason for the " fever, vomiting, diarrhea, not eating in days, and

extreme lethargy " get your child to a doctor who takes this

seriously -or an ER. Maybe that's one of the reasons I lived -to

share that message. "

=====

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

We all respect the success that you have had with vitamin E. Many have had

success with the fish oils (which have done nothing for my son as he is not

deficient in Omega 3). Please respect that many of us have had unbelievable

success in changing our diets. It is unfair to be harsh with someone who has

made this personal choice to 'try' an elimination diet.

If you could just but look at the request of the message heading.... it says

" For those of you who are Dairy Free " and is thus requesting specific advise

from those of us who have gone that route. It should not be an invitation to

yet another political debate on milk.

I recognize that you have found a source of Raw milk and choose that for your

kids. I don't feel comfortable with that choice personally as I don't know any

farmers or have a source of raw milk that I trust. I believe that it is illegal

to retail it for human consumption? Yet, I have never come out and stated that

one should not drink Raw milk. We all need to respect each others choices.

Please respect those of us whose children cannot tolerate milk products. We

certainly didn't ask for this.... the powers that be 'gave' it to us.

While you do not believe that milk elimination is necessary, most reputable DANS

will not even take you as a patient unless you have tried an elimination diet to

see if your child does indeed have food intolerances. In addition, I believe

that I have posted a link to an article on CBC website linking scientific proof

to the neurological effects of proprionic acid in milk and gluten to

neurological disorders.

Given this scientific evidence and the success of thousands and thousands of

parents who have adjusted their childrens' diets, is it fair for you to

continuously harp on this issue? It's becoming unfair. You are so wise in so

many subjects yet you do have some serious resentments about special diets that

are extremely biased. Please try to keep an open mind for the sake of the peace

between all of us. It is not for you to judge the decisions of others but only

to make alternative suggestions.

I do understand that your parents forced a celiac diet upon you as a child. I

get this and I know that you don't want other kids to go through that but better

to find out the truth about your child's tolerances than to continuously poisen

them. My son gets so sick with milk products and his systems become so

compromised that it would be ludicrous to continue feeding it to him.

It would be parental neglegence!

I know that you don't mean to come across so strongly as I am aware that you

have a wonderful heart and are a lovely woman absolutely dedicated to this

cause. But.... please respect those who DO want to try the special diets.....

We do it only for our beloved children.

Happy Valentines Day!

Your friend,

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM][ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy

free....

Barbara I wonder why you would eliminate milk from your child's diet

in the first place -unless she was allergic to it -which is rare.

" Our results demonstrated an actual prevalence of cow's milk allergy

in patients on milk elimination diets (4%) to be significantly lower

than the number of patients prescribed such diets (24.2%)-confirming

that this measure is being applied excessively. "

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1525-1470.2007.00323.x

And besides being she is 7 and only off milk for 3 months I'm sure

you would have known prior to this if she had a true allergy. Boy

after reading what some of you guys are going through today I'm glad

that when Tanner was first diagnosed that we all knew that stuff like

this was a waste of time anyway for those that did it. Most of us have enough

to worry about without the added pressures of special diets!

I do hope she is feeling better...back to the MD I guess if not?

To the new members

once again -most of us do NOT pull our children off milk unless they

have celiac or some other medical condition that warrents it..

And if people say there was a surge eliminating milk -but at the same

time they are supplementing with fish oils (and now E) well almost all

saw amazing surges! (with milk) It's as if I fed Tanner Teddy Grahams while he

was in therapy and taking fish oils and having amazing surges -

should I have credited the Teddy Grahams?!

Or if I gave him milk -should I credit the milk?!

I get upset about advice that flu like symptoms we all get when we

have...the flu... are a sign of " yeast die off " because dehydration

is a very severe situation in young children so signs of it need

medical attention. Dehydration is not a good sign! Children throw

up and get diarrhea for many reasons -and after they get better they

can be weak for a bit. If some of you choose to follow restrictive

diets then you have to listen to " it's a sign of yeast die off " and

other bad advice. This link doesn't appear to be a credible source

either -but even from this site they are saying that " yeast die off "

signs are a bad sign. (if you find something from a credible source

please post it -all I find are sites that anyone could have put up

last night)

" Be aware that contrary to popularly held misconception, yeast die-

off reactions are not a sign that yeast treatment is succeeding. It

is an indication that yeast cells are dying, usually in large

numbers, and is more of an indicator of the system's toxic overload.

More poisons are being released than the body can adequately cope

with at one time. In most cases, yeast die-off is a sign that the

system's eliminatory pathways are overburdened or as oftentimes

happens, blocked, as in constipation and liver stress. When properly

undertaken, treatment for yeast related health problems does not lead

to yeast die-off reactions. "

http://www.modernherbalist.com/dieoff.html

And why do these type of messages make me so upset (I mean come on

this is Valentine's Day!)

Archive I wrote in 2002

" I really don't know much about the gluten casein free diet even

though I was raised on it because again it's one of the horrible

memories of my childhood -not blaming it on the diet -the diet saved

my life -but again, I was just a child and it just didn't seem fair

I had to go without.

It seems ironic that I'm now surrounded by people putting their

child on the very diet I was raised on -and for some strange reason -

perhaps due to my lack of making myself clear -believing that I

would attack a parent for putting their child on a diet they believe

would help their child.

My mom -who I love more than anyone in the entire world put me on

that diet which is what saved my life. My mom and dad also rushed

me to the hospital anytime my illness from the celiac disease was

bad -and back then they didn't know as much as today -but back then

they were very aware of the dangers of dehydration -something it

appears some of you may have forgotten. I tell you it's not a good

feeling to be close to death from dehydration -and I know it.

A thin celiac child who is vomiting is very much in risk of

dehydration. So please let's not even mention the diet part -it's

irrelevant to me. Again since it's the diet that kept me healthy -

I'm not sure why there is such strong belief that fever, vomiting,

diarrhea, not eating in days, and extreme lethargy -all reported

here in the mother's own words-are attributed to a diet and not to

an illness.

This is why, again -I'm so glad that we agree no matter what the

reason for the " fever, vomiting, diarrhea, not eating in days, and

extreme lethargy " get your child to a doctor who takes this

seriously -or an ER. Maybe that's one of the reasons I lived -to

share that message. "

=====

[Guest guest]

To all:

To be honest, I am beginning to feel the same. I do hope we can conquer our

differences. Bio medical is just not going away. There have been studies on

probiotics, Autism is looking at Vit E. Fish oil is bio med. Come on, guys.

Progress is not such a bad thing! Milk fine for some, not for others.

Colleen

Mother of Charlie 32 months

Re: [ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy

free....

and all concerned,

To clarify, in no way was I implying that yeast die off is a good thing, or

that it is something to be taken lightly. I even said I have no idea if that

is indeed what is happening. In light of what I read was this mom's

frustration at getting no answers from her physicians and being very

concerned, I thought it might be an avenue she had not considered. It could

be worth investigating. It very well may be a waste of time, as this

certainly could be the flu.

I appologize if I contributed to the issue at hand.

As evidenced by much of the posts lately, there is a real tension on this

list serve regarding biomed/diets/autism/ and all things related. For

whatever reason, and all of them are valid, there is a divide in our

community regarding these interventions and their necessity. There is also

much needed debate about their effectiveness, safety and purpose.

I only respond to posts regarding biomed simply because it is almost

entirely responsible for our daughter's recovery from Autism and moderate

Apraxia. When I see other mothers on this list, starting where I did 4 years

ago, I try to reach out a hand in guidance. This message board is often a

spring board for parents figuring out what is wrong with their children and

how to help them.

That being said, I have debated for a long time whether or not I have

over-stayed my welcome. I realize now I have. In all sincerity, , God

Bless You for what you have done for not just my child, but for so many

others. You may never know the true impact you have had on so very many

lives.

I wish you all luck in your children's healing and happiness.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Barbara I wonder why you would eliminate milk from your child's diet

in the first place -unless she was allergic to it -which is rare.

" Our results demonstrated an actual prevalence of cow's milk allergy

in patients on milk elimination diets (4%) to be significantly lower

than the number of patients prescribed such diets (24.2%)-confirming

that this measure is being applied excessively. "

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1525-1470.2007.00323.x

And besides being she is 7 and only off milk for 3 months I'm sure

you would have known prior to this if she had a true allergy. Boy

after reading what some of you guys are going through today I'm glad

that when Tanner was first diagnosed that we all knew that stuff like

this was a waste of time anyway for those that did it. Most of us have

enough to worry about without the added pressures of special diets!

I do hope she is feeling better...back to the MD I guess if not?

To the new members

once again -most of us do NOT pull our children off milk unless they

have celiac or some other medical condition that warrents it..

And if people say there was a surge eliminating milk -but at the same

time they are supplementing with fish oils (and now E) well almost all

saw amazing surges! (with milk) It's as if I fed Tanner Teddy Grahams while

he

was in therapy and taking fish oils and having amazing surges -

should I have credited the Teddy Grahams?!

Or if I gave him milk -should I credit the milk?!

I get upset about advice that flu like symptoms we all get when we

have...the flu... are a sign of " yeast die off " because dehydration

is a very severe situation in young children so signs of it need

medical attention. Dehydration is not a good sign! Children throw

up and get diarrhea for many reasons -and after they get better they

can be weak for a bit. If some of you choose to follow restrictive

diets then you have to listen to " it's a sign of yeast die off " and

other bad advice. This link doesn't appear to be a credible source

either -but even from this site they are saying that " yeast die off "

signs are a bad sign. (if you find something from a credible source

please post it -all I find are sites that anyone could have put up

last night)

" Be aware that contrary to popularly held misconception, yeast die- off

reactions are not a sign that yeast treatment is succeeding. It

is an indication that yeast cells are dying, usually in large

numbers, and is more of an indicator of the system's toxic overload.

More poisons are being released than the body can adequately cope

with at one time. In most cases, yeast die-off is a sign that the

system's eliminatory pathways are overburdened or as oftentimes

happens, blocked, as in constipation and liver stress. When properly

undertaken, treatment for yeast related health problems does not lead

to yeast die-off reactions. " http://www.modernherbalist.com/dieoff.html

And why do these type of messages make me so upset (I mean come on

this is Valentine's Day!)

Archive I wrote in 2002

" I really don't know much about the gluten casein free diet even though I

was raised on it because again it's one of the horrible memories of my

childhood -not blaming it on the diet -the diet saved my life -but again, I

was just a child and it just didn't seem fair I had to go without.

It seems ironic that I'm now surrounded by people putting their child on the

very diet I was raised on -and for some strange reason - perhaps due to my

lack of making myself clear -believing that I would attack a parent for

putting their child on a diet they believe would help their child.

My mom -who I love more than anyone in the entire world put me on that diet

which is what saved my life. My mom and dad also rushed me to the hospital

anytime my illness from the celiac disease was bad -and back then they

didn't know as much as today -but back then they were very aware of the

dangers of dehydration -something it appears some of you may have forgotten.

I tell you it's not a good feeling to be close to death from dehydration

-and I know it.

A thin celiac child who is vomiting is very much in risk of dehydration. So

please let's not even mention the diet part -it's irrelevant to me. Again

since it's the diet that kept me healthy - I'm not sure why there is such

strong belief that fever, vomiting, diarrhea, not eating in days, and

extreme lethargy -all reported here in the mother's own words-are attributed

to a diet and not to an illness.

This is why, again -I'm so glad that we agree no matter what the reason for

the " fever, vomiting, diarrhea, not eating in days, and extreme lethargy "

get your child to a doctor who takes this seriously -or an ER. Maybe that's

one of the reasons I lived -to share that message. "

=====

[Guest guest]

Can we do a poll on the milk issue? 7 out of 9 kids in our support

group that met today had HUGE SURGES in language within a few weeks and

only one had an " allergy " to the milk. Our GI said that the allergy test

is not really conclusive anyway and the only real test is taking it out

of the child's diet. If it makes a difference, leave it out. If after a

few months, there is no change then you can probably conclude that it

did not affect your child. He agreed that this was the case with most

food. Can't really conclude the sensitivity until it is removed from the

diet. I agree only because that is what I have seen. He is also from a

University hospital and has been a GI for many years. He said that he is

seeing more and more kids that are actually not tolerating milk well and

it is causing stomach migraines. I had not heard of this before but he

diagnosed my older son with this. He had to remove wheat from his diet

too. He also told me that it would not hurt to take a child that is

eating solid foods off milk as he assured me there are plenty of other

sources of calcium other than milk. He explained that the mother cow has

milk to feed her calf which contains calcium which she gets from the

grass she eats not the glass of milk she drinks.

As far as special diets go, my kids eat fruit, vegetables, meat,(two eat

rice), (one eats wheat), but no preservatives or processed food. It is a

great way to eat. I can only imagine that we are also helping to prevent

our children from future diseases. It has also saved us a ton of money

as we don't eat out much and we are not paying for pricey prepared

foods. The only supplement now is cod liver oil because we don't eat

fish and methyl b12 (which I have been taking for two years). During flu

season we add vitamin C. (In the past we were drive thru junkies! And

my kids were the pickiest eaters.) Food prep is easy. Hungry

kids...here's an apple, or an orange, or theres a piece of chicken in

the fridge.

All I can say is that my kids DID improve DRAMITICALLY within a short

period of time with the milk elimination and going to a pure foods diet.

Our therapist who assessed them many months ago, but because we were on

a waiting list, could not get therapy right away, said she would not

have expected my boys to have come so far in such a short period of

time. One is completely caught up and the other is only a little bit

behind. She even suggests removing milk to all her clients. (And she

recommends the cod liver oil). She also gave me the book " The Late

Talker " . She also confirmed that kids that do this spend a much shorter

time with her catching up. (We are only on our third session.)

Milk elimination has been a simple thing for us to do, why discourage

other people from giving this a try? It is something that can be done

right away and doesn't cost any money.

Diet has been a wonderful change for us too. I feel amazing and my kids

look and feel great!

Finally, within a few weeks of removing milk, my kids could tolerate

loud noises.

Will this happen for all kids, I don't know. What I am glad is that

someone recommended that I give this a try first because it sure helped

during the wait period for speech therapy.

I would never discourage anyone from giving something a try that could

really help their child as long it was not risky.

Barbara Eccleston wrote:

> We originally eliminated dairy on the advice of her allergist (not from advice

from other parents) She was experiencing similar symptoms that had been

appearing gradually over the last few years along with her symptoms of dyspraxia

which had not changed much since age 3. She was allergy tested and it didn't

show an allergy to milk, but the dr. recommended eliminating and seeing if it

made a difference. It did! We saw a huge surge, and symptoms disappeared for

well over a month, she had her first formed b

> m in years. We do not supplement with anything other than the prescribed

probiotics (also by her allergist) so the surge was valid in my opinion. I am

not against supplementing, I just don't want to do anything without her levels

being tested first. We have appointment with a Ped GI dr (3/5) and a genetics

dr. specializing in metabolic (3/20) I was simply looking for some practical

advice for people who had eliminated dairy for longer than me....so sorry to

have made you upset on Valentine's day. Imagi

> ne mine for a moment after having a child vomit for 12 of the last 21 days and

yes had to see her at deaths door and be so week she can't attend school. Every

dr. who has seen her so far has told me she does not a have a viral or bacterial

illness...

[Guest guest]

Epsom Salts baths and Pepcid AC are recommended items for a dietary infraction.

Epsom Salts baths are considered a non-invasive method of getting sulfer into

your child. The magnesium sulfate helps the child detoxify their systems. A

lot of the kids have low sulfer (Mark actually has late-stage sulfate deficiency

he has been without it too long) and there are many moms who give Epsom Salts

baths to their kids 2 to 5 nights a week. We do it less in the winter time as

it is very dry in Alberta and the baths themselves are a bit drying.

BUT.... any dietary infractions and my kid goes into that tub ASAP! Some kids

don't tolerate the baths well so you need to 'test' your child out and see if

he/she is a responder but most do well with them.

Janice

[sPAM][ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy

free....

Is this how epsom works? I thought it was contraindicated bc of the

whole dehydration thing. Don't know.

[Guest guest]

Janice

I got goosebumps reading your message to - I get those when I

listen to music that really touches me! Your note is such a mature,

well-stated, neutral, not defensive, complete work of art which says it

all. I hope she reflects on her continued positioning and sees how it

is " unfair " because it is. I was going to reply to her before I saw

your note which perfectly expresses what " those of you who are Dairy

Free " feel/believe.

Janice ha scritto:

> Dear ,

>

> We all respect the success that you have had with vitamin E. Many have had

success with the fish oils (which have done nothing for my son as he is not

deficient in Omega 3). Please respect that many of us have had unbelievable

success in changing our diets. It is unfair to be harsh with someone who has

made this personal choice to 'try' an elimination diet.

>

> If you could just but look at the request of the message heading.... it says

" For those of you who are Dairy Free " and is thus requesting specific advise

from those of us who have gone that route. It should not be an invitation to

yet another political debate on milk.

>

> I recognize that you have found a source of Raw milk and choose that for your

kids. I don't feel comfortable with that choice personally as I don't know any

farmers or have a source of raw milk that I trust. I believe that it is illegal

to retail it for human consumption? Yet, I have never come out and stated that

one should not drink Raw milk. We all need to respect each others choices.

Please respect those of us whose children cannot tolerate milk products. We

certainly didn't ask for this.... the powers that be 'gave' it to us.

>

> While you do not believe that milk elimination is necessary, most reputable

DANS will not even take you as a patient unless you have tried an elimination

diet to see if your child does indeed have food intolerances. In addition, I

believe that I have posted a link to an article on CBC website linking

scientific proof to the neurological effects of proprionic acid in milk and

gluten to neurological disorders.

>

> Given this scientific evidence and the success of thousands and thousands of

parents who have adjusted their childrens' diets, is it fair for you to

continuously harp on this issue? It's becoming unfair. You are so wise in so

many subjects yet you do have some serious resentments about special diets that

are extremely biased. Please try to keep an open mind for the sake of the peace

between all of us. It is not for you to judge the decisions of others but only

to make alternative suggestions.

>

> I do understand that your parents forced a celiac diet upon you as a child.

I get this and I know that you don't want other kids to go through that but

better to find out the truth about your child's tolerances than to continuously

poisen them. My son gets so sick with milk products and his systems become so

compromised that it would be ludicrous to continue feeding it to him.

>

> It would be parental neglegence!

>

> I know that you don't mean to come across so strongly as I am aware that you

have a wonderful heart and are a lovely woman absolutely dedicated to this

cause. But.... please respect those who DO want to try the special diets.....

We do it only for our beloved children.

>

> Happy Valentines Day!

>

>

>

> Your friend,

>

> Janice

> Mother of Mark, 13

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/14/2008 5:59:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jscott@... writes:

If you could just but look at the request of the message heading.... it says

" For those of you who are Dairy Free " and is thus requesting specific advise

from those of us who have gone that route. It should not be an invitation to

yet another political debate on milk.

I completely agree!

(and we are still those who ARE using dairy for most of our family)

I just do not understand why this is opened up yet ANOTHER debate on the

milk issue.

It's obvious from the subject line that the subject would obviously be MILK,

so I would recommend those who DISAGREE with being dairy-free, simply

overlook and delete those posts.

PLEASE people-- this is just common sense, and is the only true solution for

all of us to have PEACE on this list, which is what we all deserve!

Becky

**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy

Awards. Go to AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/15/2008 5:16:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bigcheech91@... writes:

and since neurological problems = brain injury, it

theoretically should help any of these kids. That said, not all

injuries are created equal. A cut is a simple boo boo, neural

pathways not so simple.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of what I've read about Apraxia/Dyspraxia--

it's all said that there IS NO Brain injury or damage with these kids, but

rather that it's an immature neurological functioning (lack of neural pathways

as compared to damage done to those pathways or the brain)

Am I wrong with this?

Becky

**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy

Awards. Go to AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

[Guest guest]

,

You make me smile!

Great post....

Someday I would like very much to hear of your experiences with HBOT. I have

found a hard chamber here in Edmonton at $100 a dive/hour. It is not something

we are really ready for but I am keeping my research eye open to what the

experiences of other moms are..... Now that would break the bank!!! So, it's

pretty far down the dyspraxic wish list for now.

Mark is really doing so well right now that I don't want to mess it up!

Janice

[sPAM][ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy

free....

STOP! Don't leave the list! DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!

This is a very healthy discussion. Very productive, mature and

respectful. If only our politicians could behave in such a manner.

I actually left the list once for all reasons so articulately stated

above. Overstayed my welcome, debatable, but I sensed that I was no

longer welcome. But, while I was checking back for updates...

to my delight - a flood of worrior Mom's all over the country working

their tails off and discovering the same or similiar patterns in

their own kids - a disturbing flood of kids I may add.

If these great Mom's leave the list - huge mistake and huge step

backward.

We MUST move forward and continue to share our beloved childrens

journey. If the above MOm's leave the list - please, please let the

list know where you are going. Or email me privatly

Thank you all ...

Worrior Mom - we are winning

OH, and to the point of the discussion - i've been around for

awhile - just my non medical 2 cents - sounds viral -or- food

poisening - allergy.... in all my research/reading - seriously doubt

original poster's child is experiencing yeast die off. I

understand/and my experience with yeast die off: the silly's, over

emotional, stimmy, hyper. Took me awhile to identify this in my

kid, but for some kids, it's plain as day. We are almost into 2

years of " recovery " - my kids' gut was once a mess (got the labs to

prove it) we've made huge progress - we are completely off the diet.

For us, it didn't even matter to me if he " tested " positive - it was

all about healing the gut. My opinion - it was well worth the extra

effort. I read the science - over and over again - made perfect

sense to me.

And for what its worth, I highly doubt a traditional allopathic MD

would even begin to know what yeast die off looks like anyway. They

just know pharmaceuticals (in my experience). And so adept at eye

rolling, patronizing comments, and excellent at billing.

> >

> > My daughter (7) has been dairy free for about 3 months now. I try

> to be very strict, but you know how it is when your child isn't with

> you...anyway she has been throwing up on occasion for the last 2 1/2

> weeks. Probably once or twice a week, but with no fever, or any

other

> symptom. She also experienced diarrhea once or twice in that time.

> last week we had a major slip and she had a brownie one day and a

> cookie with white chocolate and butter the next. She started

vomiting

> Friday night and didn't stop. She ended up in the hospital being

> dehydrated. They did a GI series and blood work and once hydrated

> they let her go home. That was Tuesday. She is still weak and not

> eating much at all. Her bm's are not formed, she has had hives over

> the last few days. Could this be from the dairy products or

something

> else? She has had a celiac panel done and it came back negative. I

> am so worried about her! Does your child react like this to dairy

> after being off of it for a time?

> >

> > Barbara

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Makes sence to me. I use DMG along w/ b6. DMG is a detoxifier and promotes

opening up the pathways of speech. It is terrific for us!

Re: [ ] Re: For those of you who are dairy

free....

In a message dated 2/15/2008 5:16:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bigcheech91@ <mailto:bigcheech91%40> writes:

and since neurological problems = brain injury, it

theoretically should help any of these kids. That said, not all

injuries are created equal. A cut is a simple boo boo, neural

pathways not so simple.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of what I've read about Apraxia/Dyspraxia--

it's all said that there IS NO Brain injury or damage with these kids, but

rather that it's an immature neurological functioning (lack of neural

pathways

as compared to damage done to those pathways or the brain)

Am I wrong with this?

Becky

**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy

Awards. Go to AOL Music.

(http://music. <http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565>

aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/16/2008 4:00:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

bigcheech91@... writes:

Sorry, I'm using NACD-speak. I do not mean brain damaged from birth

injury, accident, illness, etc. I meant it most simply as if

something isn't working the way it should be, it's injured, broken,

in some way, and needs to be fixed. That's what therapy does -- it

builds those missing connections. I don't usually use the word

immature in this context, because to me that implies that development

will happen eventually without intervention. Semantically speaking,

it's the difference between " delay " and " disorder " .

Does that make sense?

Yes it does! thank you for clarifying it for me, because when people say

damage done to the brain, you would typically find that they mean that there is

scar tissue or actual damage done to the brain etc.

but I know what you mean now-- thank you!

becky

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/

2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)