Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 Hi Nikki, Babies are a tough call; does your fiance know his epilespy is genetic? What is causing his epilepsy? Does it run in his family, or is he the only person (that he knows) who has it? You should seriously talk to his neurologist about this -- they're good for SOME things, I think ~Aja >From: nikki_hilderbrand@... >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Thanks... >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:53:47 -0000 > >Thanks everyone for their advice on Vagus Nerve Stimulation. I really >found it helpful in giving my fiance advice. *sigh* > >Hugs >Nikki & > >ps: Does anyone know if epilepsy is transmitted to a baby? >wants to have a baby but he doesn't want it to " suffer " with what he >has. Does anyone know if epilepsy meds can kill a baby? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 Hi Nikki, Go to Dr. Yerby's site: www.seizures.net/ to find more information on drugs and birth defects. Women who take epilepsy drugs (they all can endanger an unborn child) have a much higher risk of having a baby with spina bifida or cleft pallet. Also, women were excluded from trials of some before they were put on trhe market. Several countries now have " registries " (including ours)to track how drugs affect the unborn child and its mother--that's how we're finding out how the drugs affect the unborn child---cynical or what? Yerby has a lot of good information on his site. Zoe > Thanks everyone for their advice on Vagus Nerve Stimulation. I really > found it helpful in giving my fiance advice. *sigh* > > Hugs > Nikki & > > ps: Does anyone know if epilepsy is transmitted to a baby? > wants to have a baby but he doesn't want it to " suffer " with what he > has. Does anyone know if epilepsy meds can kill a baby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2001 Report Share Posted June 11, 2001 Thanks. Glad to hear that my (amateur attempt at) advice was well-received... hope it helped.<br><br>-Seb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2001 Report Share Posted June 11, 2001 Thanks. Glad to hear that my (amateur attempt at) advice was well-received... hope it helped.<br><br>-Seb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 sounds great , I like people that (still) want to change the world and begin with theirselfs and do something, not only talk Darius Partovi wrote: > Well, it's going to be a couple of years yet (just finishing up my first > year of law school), but I appreciate it in advance. I decided to go to > law school and then into politics after I got disgusted with the medical > establishment (controlled by insurance companies, pharmaceutical > companies, and greed). I planned (still do really) on changing the > world. Then, I found out about naturopathic medicine, but we don't have > licensing here in Texas, and I was already in law school. So, seeing as > how I already made the commitment, I decided to stick to it and use my > law degree to further ND licensing. Lawyers listen to other lawyers > better than they listen to naturopathic doctors. Eventually, I'll get > to be what I wanted to be from the start: a healer, not a suppressor of > symptoms (a unificator, not a divisificator). > > Cheers, > > > > On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 12:01 PM, pdxgaye wrote: > >> I wish you the very best in your new endeavor, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Me too. I've tried and tried to change the medical profession. But I guess I can only control what I personally do. So I try to be a really good patient advocate and fight for each one I have any power do help. I question the Doctors and Pharmacists etc. Even other nurses. They don't always like it!! But they are forced to think a little. K. --- Opernschule BGZ / Opernvorstudio OVS <opernschulebgzb@...> wrote: > sounds great , > I like people that (still) want to change the world > and begin with > theirselfs and do something, not only talk > > > > Darius Partovi wrote: > > > Well, it's going to be a couple of years yet (just > finishing up my first > > year of law school), but I appreciate it in > advance. I decided to go to > > law school and then into politics after I got > disgusted with the medical > > establishment (controlled by insurance companies, > pharmaceutical > > companies, and greed). I planned (still do > really) on changing the > > world. Then, I found out about naturopathic > medicine, but we don't have > > licensing here in Texas, and I was already in law > school. So, seeing as > > how I already made the commitment, I decided to > stick to it and use my > > law degree to further ND licensing. Lawyers > listen to other lawyers > > better than they listen to naturopathic doctors. > Eventually, I'll get > > to be what I wanted to be from the start: a > healer, not a suppressor of > > symptoms (a unificator, not a divisificator). > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 12:01 PM, pdxgaye > wrote: > > > >> I wish you the very best in your new endeavor, > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2002 Report Share Posted April 8, 2002 Well People, Lots of piddles make a puddle - the world and it's awareness is slowly growing and lots of people trying to make a difference means a BIG difference. Keep it up - never give up! Re: Thanks... Me too. I've tried and tried to change the medical profession. But I guess I can only control what I personally do. So I try to be a really good patient advocate and fight for each one I have any power do help. I question the Doctors and Pharmacists etc. Even other nurses. They don't always like it!! But they are forced to think a little. K. --- Opernschule BGZ / Opernvorstudio OVS <opernschulebgzb@...> wrote: > sounds great , > I like people that (still) want to change the world > and begin with > theirselfs and do something, not only talk > > > > Darius Partovi wrote: > > > Well, it's going to be a couple of years yet (just > finishing up my first > > year of law school), but I appreciate it in > advance. I decided to go to > > law school and then into politics after I got > disgusted with the medical > > establishment (controlled by insurance companies, > pharmaceutical > > companies, and greed). I planned (still do > really) on changing the > > world. Then, I found out about naturopathic > medicine, but we don't have > > licensing here in Texas, and I was already in law > school. So, seeing as > > how I already made the commitment, I decided to > stick to it and use my > > law degree to further ND licensing. Lawyers > listen to other lawyers > > better than they listen to naturopathic doctors. > Eventually, I'll get > > to be what I wanted to be from the start: a > healer, not a suppressor of > > symptoms (a unificator, not a divisificator). > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 12:01 PM, pdxgaye > wrote: > > > >> I wish you the very best in your new endeavor, > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > Hey Liz, , Shauna, and everyone. Its was really cool to hear > from you all. All the comments were greatly appreciated. It also > good to see the majority here doing well. > > Thanks Agian, > > , That's what we are here for. It's nice to be able to relate to what someone else is feeling for REAL. At least I know that is true for me. Sometimes when I am having a really crappy day I quit what I am doing, come in here to read the posts and get some inspiration. I did that a lot when I first started taking this med....I wanted to go back to my Celexa a while ago too but had some encouragement to stick it out, did, and now am happy I did. There are still some good people out there and I think many are here on this post board. It's great to be able to relate with people on this wonderful journey we call PMS, anxiety, depression or whatever it is that affects us each. But you know what? I think in the long run what we " have " is what makes us a stronger person. I guess we all have our trials and tribulations and it's up to us to decide how we handle it. Personally I think those of us that ask for help are smarter than most. At least we can be " man " enough to know we need something to help us along even if it's for a short time or lifetime. It took me a lot of years to see what it was doing to me and my family being an every day BITCH. I couldn't see it first or didn't want to see it. It took a toll on my relationship with my daughter and my husband. Finally I thought I would go to the Doc to prove them wrong and you know what? The best thing I ever did was to go in and face reality and realize that the problem was ME. Not because I wanted to be this way but because I was. So started with the Prozac....after a while life didn't require bitching at my husband or daughter for the " little " things. It's gotten a lot better even with switching meds. Don't get me wrong...I still have my days where I am not the most friendly person to be around but that's normal. Most of us aren't born with the predisposition of being happy every day. Life affects us all differently. All I can say is hang in there and if you ever need to talk, we are here. Shauna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 .... to all of you who have answered so many of my questions!! What a great group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I don't have delicate sensibilities. I guess playing in punk and hardcore bands as a drummer most of my life cured me of that. But in my professional life, I find a more delicate hammer to serve me better. The simple fact is that name calling doesn't bring what you have to say to the proper light (or maybe it does). I would go so far to say the article you posted had a weak argument for free market, and the only thing strong about it was the language. Strong ideas don't need that language, except in punk rock that is. Incidentally, I just saw Bill Mar doing his stand-up routine called "The Decider". Very funny. BUT I DID NOT POST A LINK TO PORTIONS OF THE PROGRAM on the chiropractic list-serve. My notions of waste do include government. I hate what I see sometimes. But I also see the value of some things being ran by government (despite some waste) and not individuals in the private sector. I just think it is better for society. In fact, it is the most important things that I would have government responsible for, i.e. schools, roads, fiscal policy, caring for the sick and poor. I am sure you don't think government can't do ANYTHING right. Our country would not be so great if government was completely inept. We just draw the lines in much different places. I think we may have different ideas of what is alternative. My basic rule is: If it's on Fox, it ain't alternative. Who's ideas do you think would make the cut on FOX, mine or yours. We may be worlds away on politics and world views, but I'm your freind in chiropractic. Jay thanks......for your thoughtful comments.I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country.Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide....Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think?What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory.What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'????Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical....I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large...Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar.yours in health,J. Pedersen DC __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Danno, thanks for you thoughtfull questions. "So my overidding question is, do you believe that health coverage is an entitlement?" Been dyin' for someone to ask. Covering all people would absolutely CREATE some indeviduals who feel entitled to the benefit. There are people now who overly burden the system. I would love to sit with every one of them and instill some sort of beginning of self responsibility. I'm a little busy for that (though isn't this what we do in our offices every day?). I accept this as a consequence of keeping the general population healthier, and more sane. I actually beleive it is our obligation as functioning members of society (the strongest/healthiest) to care for the weakest and sickest. Not because they deserve ENTITLEMENTS, but because WE are responsible humans. This heals the society to a greater extent (IMHO) than kicking people to the curb. I beleive there is no greater measure of a society than how the weakest, sickest, mentally ill and criminals are "dealt with". I am not sure how you penalize for poor health choices. I think they come packed with their own consequenses. You may want more. Just not sure how you do this. I am not totally oposed to the idea though. Now you have my manifesto. Cheers on taking such good care of your self. I think that is great. I am not being sarcastic here. I really mean it.Jay thanks......for your thoughtful comments.I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country.Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think?What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory.What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'????Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large...Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar.yours in health,J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think we should persue this idea of consequences more and see where it leads us. Could you give me some examples? I think having to get a new liver and all the drugs that come with a transplant are much more horrific that jail time. I am not sure how you get people to stop doing dumb things. We humans are prone to this. I think I am OK with it. I no longer even care that it isn't fair, or that I may need to pay more than my fair share. I think it would be a good idea to give some sort of copay discount for reglar chiro, exercises etc. Not sure about the details of how this would be managed. Jay thanks......for your thoughtful comments.I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country.Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think?What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory.What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'????Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large...Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar.yours in health,J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Why can’t a sin tax be placed on those known harmful products ie cigarettes and alcohol and that money be placed in a pool for medical care of those users? Of course the money would run out but at least some of that care would be off the premiums of those who don’t use those products. This would include coverage for children who don’t smoke but who are exposed to cigarette smoke in the home – their care would be from the ‘sin tax’ pool. I proposed this years ago to Senator Wyden who laughed saying it sounded like I wanted them put to a firing squad…………no, I just want them to pay upfront for harmful behaviors. s.fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lindekugel Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:36 PM D Beebe, D.C.; DC Listserve Subject: Re: Re: thanks... I think we should persue this idea of consequences more and see where it leads us. Could you give me some examples? I think having to get a new liver and all the drugs that come with a transplant are much more horrific that jail time. I am not sure how you get people to stop doing dumb things. We humans are prone to this. I think I am OK with it. I no longer even care that it isn't fair, or that I may need to pay more than my fair share. I think it would be a good idea to give some sort of copay discount for reglar chiro, exercises etc. Not sure about the details of how this would be managed. Jay thanks... ....for your thoughtful comments. I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country. Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think? What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory. What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'???? Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large... Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar. yours in health, J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 You must remember the tobacco companies lie. Who says the program will run out of money? The answer is the tobacco companies. They conveniently use projections that assume people will be sicker. If smoking increases they are correct. However, when tobacco taxes go up the number of smokers decrease and the number of children who start smoking decreases. The result is fewer sick children because they and their parents are not smoking. So the cost of the program will decrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 What ever happened to the millions that the State of Oregon received in the national tobacco settlement back in the late 1990’s. Was it just placed in the general fund? Wouldn’t that money have been wisely used to provide medical care for conditions related to smoking? Larry L. Oliver, DC 408 NW 7th Corvallis, OR 97330 dro@... voice 541-757-9933 fax 541-757-7713 The information contained in this electronic message may contain protected health information which is confidential under applicable law and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the recipient of the message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received the communication in error, please notify Heresco Chiropractic & Associates, 408 NW 7th St, Corvallis, OR 97330, 541-757-9933 and purge the communication immediately without making any copy or distribution -----Original Message----- From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Sharron Fuchs Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:41 PM DC Listserve Subject: RE: Re: thanks... Why can’t a sin tax be placed on those known harmful products ie cigarettes and alcohol and that money be placed in a pool for medical care of those users? Of course the money would run out but at least some of that care would be off the premiums of those who don’t use those products. This would include coverage for children who don’t smoke but who are exposed to cigarette smoke in the home – their care would be from the ‘sin tax’ pool. I proposed this years ago to Senator Wyden who laughed saying it sounded like I wanted them put to a firing squad…………no, I just want them to pay upfront for harmful behaviors. s.fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lindekugel Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:36 PM D Beebe, D.C.; DC Listserve Subject: Re: Re: thanks... I think we should persue this idea of consequences more and see where it leads us. Could you give me some examples? I think having to get a new liver and all the drugs that come with a transplant are much more horrific that jail time. I am not sure how you get people to stop doing dumb things. We humans are prone to this. I think I am OK with it. I no longer even care that it isn't fair, or that I may need to pay more than my fair share. I think it would be a good idea to give some sort of copay discount for reglar chiro, exercises etc. Not sure about the details of how this would be managed. Jay ----- Original Message ---- From: " D Beebe, D.C. " <daniel.beebeverizon (DOT) net> Lindekugel <pdxchiroguy > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:09:05 PM Subject: Re: Re: thanks... Glad you can cross the question off the list !! Looks like we agree on the personal responsibility issue. to that extent , helping the weak, sick and mentally ill. I have no problem with. That being said if there are no built in consequences for those indiviuals that continue to make poor choices then it does become an entitlement. The theory is not to punish but to change behavior. After drinking astounding quantities of alcohol did Mickey Mantel deserve a chance @ a new liver? Not like he wasn't aware of the consequence of the overt drinking... Are we as a society responsible for irresponsibility? Regards and thanks Danno thanks... ....for your thoughtful comments. I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country. Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think? What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory. What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'???? Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large... Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar. yours in health, J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I am not totally opposed to sin taxes. The only problem with them is that they are hugely regressive, meaning they tax people who have the most to loose. I think they would work as long as they were not the only form of taxation. I would be happy to pay a more general tax. We've all sinned a little. Jay Concordia Chiropractic Center 5425 NE 33rd Ave. Portland OR. 97211 503-287-2273 thanks......for your thoughtful comments.I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country.Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think?What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory.What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'????Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large...Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar.yours in health,J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I would first start by directly targeting those who diminish their health by smoking or drinking. A sin tax would be sent to a separate entity to administer for medical care. It would only be for those who smoke or have a smoking or drinking related illness. Laryngeal cancer comes to mind….chronic bronchitis in children with positive blood nicotine etc. If people quit smoking or drinking I can only think of that being a positive. Perhaps those with the most to loose by a tax would not be affected because they wouldn’t be spending their limited resources on cigarettes or alcohol? This in my mind isn’t regressive it is progressive because it would help to curtail negative actions. s. fuchs dc From: Lindekugel [mailto:pdxchiroguy@...] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:48 PM Sharron Fuchs; DC Listserve Subject: Re: Re: thanks... I am not totally opposed to sin taxes. The only problem with them is that they are hugely regressive, meaning they tax people who have the most to loose. I think they would work as long as they were not the only form of taxation. I would be happy to pay a more general tax. We've all sinned a little. Jay Concordia Chiropractic Center 5425 NE 33rd Ave. Portland OR. 97211 503-287-2273 thanks... ....for your thoughtful comments. I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country. Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think? What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory. What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'???? Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large... Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar. yours in health, J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Good question. I know some went in to the general fund but also it was ear marked for smoking prevention programs. s. fuchs dc From: Larry Oliver, DC [mailto:dro@...] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:25 PM Sharron Fuchs; DC Listserve Subject: RE: Re: thanks... What ever happened to the millions that the State of Oregon received in the national tobacco settlement back in the late 1990’s. Was it just placed in the general fund? Wouldn’t that money have been wisely used to provide medical care for conditions related to smoking? Larry L. Oliver, DC 408 NW 7th Corvallis, OR 97330 dro@... voice 541-757-9933 fax 541-757-7713 The information contained in this electronic message may contain protected health information which is confidential under applicable law and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the recipient of the message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received the communication in error, please notify Heresco Chiropractic & Associates, 408 NW 7th St, Corvallis, OR 97330, 541-757-9933 and purge the communication immediately without making any copy or distribution -----Original Message----- From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Sharron Fuchs Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:41 PM DC Listserve Subject: RE: Re: thanks... Why can’t a sin tax be placed on those known harmful products ie cigarettes and alcohol and that money be placed in a pool for medical care of those users? Of course the money would run out but at least some of that care would be off the premiums of those who don’t use those products. This would include coverage for children who don’t smoke but who are exposed to cigarette smoke in the home – their care would be from the ‘sin tax’ pool. I proposed this years ago to Senator Wyden who laughed saying it sounded like I wanted them put to a firing squad…………no, I just want them to pay upfront for harmful behaviors. s.fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lindekugel Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:36 PM D Beebe, D.C.; DC Listserve Subject: Re: Re: thanks... I think we should persue this idea of consequences more and see where it leads us. Could you give me some examples? I think having to get a new liver and all the drugs that come with a transplant are much more horrific that jail time. I am not sure how you get people to stop doing dumb things. We humans are prone to this. I think I am OK with it. I no longer even care that it isn't fair, or that I may need to pay more than my fair share. I think it would be a good idea to give some sort of copay discount for reglar chiro, exercises etc. Not sure about the details of how this would be managed. Jay thanks... ....for your thoughtful comments. I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than the admittedly faulty efforts in this country. Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think? What federal project can we name that solved one problem without creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory. What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'???? Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in any historical period where such conflict between those opposing factions, was not present? Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under the pretense her adam's apple is too large... Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT uses better grammar. yours in health, J. Pedersen DC ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Those financial instruments were sold at a fraction of the face value to cover the budgetary short fall at the time. DeSiena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Do you know the damage and costs caused by tobacco? In China 2,000,000 secondhand smokers have died. In the U.S. every year second hand smoke kills 50,000. WHO says 5,000,000 will die from smoking THIS YEAR! Smoking is the world's worst healthcare issue by far! History shows us the most effective way to reduce the smoking rate is raise the price. Some current smokers quit with the increased cost. The increased cost keeps more kids from smoking. If you do not smoke by 18 years old you probably will not start. The tobacco industry does not want decreased sales. It must replace its loyal dead customers. The tobacco companies are investing $10 million to have Measure 50 fail. Hillary and Obama only have $30 million for their presidential campaigns for the entire U.S. Please vote to save lives and care for the kids. DeSiena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Throw fast food on there, processed food, any foods without a nutritional value of XXXX. , DC, DABCO > > Why can't a sin tax be placed on those known harmful products ie cigarettes and alcohol and that money be placed in a pool for medical care of those users? Of course the money would run out but at least some of that care would be off the premiums of those who don't use those products. This would include coverage for children who don't smoke but who are exposed to cigarette smoke in the home - their care would be from the 'sin tax' pool. I proposed this years ago to Senator Wyden who laughed saying it sounded like I wanted them put to a firing squad............no, I just want them to pay upfront for harmful behaviors. > > > > s.fuchs dc > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lindekugel > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:36 PM > D Beebe, D.C.; DC Listserve > Subject: Re: Re: thanks... > > > > I think we should persue this idea of consequences more and see where it leads us. Could you give me some examples? I think having to get a new liver and all the drugs that come with a transplant are much more horrific that jail time. I am not sure how you get people to stop doing dumb things. We humans are prone to this. I think I am OK with it. I no longer even care that it isn't fair, or that I may need to pay more than my fair share. I think it would be a good idea to give some sort of copay discount for reglar chiro, exercises etc. Not sure about the details of how this would be managed. > > > > Jay > > thanks... > > ...for your thoughtful comments. > > I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such > governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under > any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, > BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything > to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than > the admittedly faulty efforts in this country. > > Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving > of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup > of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility > companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into > smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of > hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think? > What federal project can we name that solved one problem without > creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real > difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory. > > What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance > carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'???? > > Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving > social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without > 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch > ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the > disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in > any historical period where such conflict between those opposing > factions, was not present? > > Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the > opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved > list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who > object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what > people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under > the pretense her adam's apple is too large... > > Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, > primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who > worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave > her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT > uses better grammar. > > yours in health, > > J. Pedersen DC > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 The decrease in number of smokers decreases but the number of applicants in the insurance pool increases over time. So who makes up the shortfall? Governments lie all the time too. , DC, DABCO > > You must remember the tobacco companies lie. Who says the program will run out of money? The answer is the tobacco companies. They conveniently use projections that assume people will be sicker. If smoking increases they are correct. However, when tobacco taxes go up the number of smokers decrease and the number of children who start smoking decreases. The result is fewer sick children because they and their parents are not smoking. So the cost of the program will decrease. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 On top of this, we could add, working over 34 1/2hrs/week, living far from your family, alowing unhealthy amounts of stress to enter your life, angry thoughts, not taking 4-6 weeks of paid vacation per year, sleeping less than 8 hrs/night (current average in US is 6 1/2). We are going to need a large admin to manage all of this. Lindekugel, DC 5425 NE 33rd Ave Portland OR, 97211 503-287-2273 thanks...> > ...for your thoughtful comments.> > I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such > governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under > any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, > BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything > to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than > the admittedly faulty efforts in this country.> > Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving > of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup > of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility > companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into > smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of > hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think?> What federal project can we name that solved one problem without > creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real > difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory.> > What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance > carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'????> > Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving > social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without > 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch > ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the > disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in > any historical period where such conflict between those opposing > factions, was not present? > > Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the > opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved > list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who > object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what > people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under > the pretense her adam's apple is too large...> > Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, > primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who > worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave > her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT > uses better grammar.> > yours in health,> > J. Pedersen DC> > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 The damage and costs are huge that is why I think those who choose to use should pay for the consequences. Five years ago while in NYC I was astounded that a pack of cigs was over $7 ! And people complain about Oregon. Go figure. Even if a tax took off just a small portion of the premium burden from others that would be fine with me. s. fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of adesiena@... Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:52 PM pdxchiroguy@... Cc: Sharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: Re: thanks... Do you know the damage and costs caused by tobacco? In China 2,000,000 secondhand smokers have died. In the U.S. every year second hand smoke kills 50,000. WHO says 5,000,000 will die from smoking THIS YEAR! Smoking is the world's worst healthcare issue by far! History shows us the most effective way to reduce the smoking rate is raise the price. Some current smokers quit with the increased cost. The increased cost keeps more kids from smoking. If you do not smoke by 18 years old you probably will not start. The tobacco industry does not want decreased sales. It must replace its loyal dead customers. The tobacco companies are investing $10 million to have Measure 50 fail. Hillary and Obama only have $30 million for their presidential campaigns for the entire U.S. Please vote to save lives and care for the kids. DeSiena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 As my 94 year old Aunt’s say, ‘ When your born you’re done for’. No, I would go that far (see below) but what is known, what is fact and what people repeatedly do that damages their health and others people’s pocketbooks then that is what I say they should pay for with a designated pool of money funded by the dangerous product , tobacco, that they buy. s. fuchs dc From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lindekugel Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 8:44 AM hillcrestchiro; Subject: Re: Re: thanks... On top of this, we could add, working over 34 1/2hrs/week, living far from your family, alowing unhealthy amounts of stress to enter your life, angry thoughts, not taking 4-6 weeks of paid vacation per year, sleeping less than 8 hrs/night (current average in US is 6 1/2). We are going to need a large admin to manage all of this. Lindekugel, DC 5425 NE 33rd Ave Portland OR, 97211 503-287-2273 thanks... > > ...for your thoughtful comments. > > I wonder whether your notions of 'non wasteful' extend to such > governmental agencies as Medicare, CIA, DOD, DOT, FBI, any branch under > any political group of the executive or legislative branches, the USPS, > BIA, etc etc? And no, I do not consider the European models of anything > to be any more effective, beneficial OR economical in application, than > the admittedly faulty efforts in this country. > > Granted criticism of the cadre of opportunists you mention are deserving > of such. Consider effects of the governmental insistence of the breakup > of oversight of the airline industry, the phone company, utility > companies nationwide.. ..Standard Oil many years ago was chopped into > smaller pieces and each seems to have regenerated into another group of > hydraheaded profit mongering beasts in itself, don't you think? > What federal project can we name that solved one problem without > creating at least two more that were unanticipated? The only real > difference is, participation is mandatory and taxation is mandatory. > > What real differences can you list, between 'the Government'; 'insurance > carriers'; 'mafia'; 'big Pharma'; 'Big Oil'???? > > Do you believe 'government' in general is any better suited to solving > social problems than private sector profit mongers? And without > 'profits' to fund their activities, our boys the Feds launch > ever-increasing extortion of taxes... certainly I can understand the > disdain for gluttonous profiteers. Can you cite as many as -one- era in > any historical period where such conflict between those opposing > factions, was not present? > > Since I stopped going to pubs long ago perhaps I have missed the > opportunity to discuss topics with sources only from the approved > list. I'll try to be more considerate for the sensitivity of those who > object to alternate sources. And I didn't realize how the form of what > people say is as critical.... I've heard some criticise Ms. Coulter under > the pretense her adam's apple is too large... > > Ann Coulter is a gad fly who has some entertaining things to say, > primarily in balance to the likes of the Bill Maher and those who > worship liberal radio concept of world events. I'm as willing to leave > her out as others are to leave the minions of the NYT. At least the NYT > uses better grammar. > > yours in health, > > J. Pedersen DC > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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