Vicious circle of breathing with only the upper part of the lungs

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I have been made aware of this list by Torsten and it's a

great pleasure to join such an active group who shares such

an important issue.

I don't know if anyone has been made aware of a vicious

mechanism that gets " installed " when very young, by I heard

this from two physios, I think it makes really sense and would

like to exchange solutions.

Basically the automatism goes like this and it starts when

very young :

Because of the mucus and because he doesn't want to cough,

the child (my son is CF, aged 6) is uncomfortable with normal,

deep breathing, hence he tends to breathe with the cleaner,

ventilated, upper parts of the lungs, then he doesn't ventilate

the lower parts, which become more and more infected, and

he even breathes less with the lower parts, ... and the

non-ventilated parts gets upper and upper.

Another way to see it is that as he breathes more and more

with the upper parts, he gets less and less oxygen, hence he

does what we intuitively do when we lack oxygen (say when

we are in a closed room) : we accelerate breathing. But by

accelerating breathing he breathes with only the upper parts

of the lungs etc, etc...

In my view it's an important matter because breathing is

unconscious, we do it 24 hours a day, the way he breathes

is being set now while he is very young, and he is reluctant to

applying deep breathing, eg by applying something that

makes him uncomfortable.

I don't know if this rings a bell to the group but as a matter

of fact I have listened often to the breathing of my son,

compared it with his brothers' and he in fact is breathing

with higher frequency and I see a serious logic to this

progressive strangulation -the physio's word is hard but

speaks to itself- mechanism.

If we share the thinking that it makes sense, I would like

to review solutions or techniques, especially for young

childs, as well, as I am trying to find techniques but

am aware of it very recently.

Liv,

Dad of Godefroy (6)

[Guest guest]

My son is only 18mos, but I can see that he doesn't breathe as deeply

as his sister (wocf). I think that a wonderful activity for cf kids

would be yoga. It has a lot of focus on deep breathing. I'm not sure

what age would be appropriate to start though, because it requires a

lot of concentration and discipline.

Wendi

Mom to Keira (3 wocf) and (18mos wcf)

> Hi all,

>

> I have been made aware of this list by Torsten and it's a

> great pleasure to join such an active group who shares such

> an important issue.

>

> I don't know if anyone has been made aware of a vicious

> mechanism that gets " installed " when very young, by I heard

> this from two physios, I think it makes really sense and would

> like to exchange solutions.

>

> Basically the automatism goes like this and it starts when

> very young :

> Because of the mucus and because he doesn't want to cough,

> the child (my son is CF, aged 6) is uncomfortable with normal,

> deep breathing, hence he tends to breathe with the cleaner,

> ventilated, upper parts of the lungs, then he doesn't ventilate

> the lower parts, which become more and more infected, and

> he even breathes less with the lower parts, ... and the

> non-ventilated parts gets upper and upper.

>

> Another way to see it is that as he breathes more and more

> with the upper parts, he gets less and less oxygen, hence he

> does what we intuitively do when we lack oxygen (say when

> we are in a closed room) : we accelerate breathing. But by

> accelerating breathing he breathes with only the upper parts

> of the lungs etc, etc...

>

> In my view it's an important matter because breathing is

> unconscious, we do it 24 hours a day, the way he breathes

> is being set now while he is very young, and he is reluctant to

> applying deep breathing, eg by applying something that

> makes him uncomfortable.

>

> I don't know if this rings a bell to the group but as a matter

> of fact I have listened often to the breathing of my son,

> compared it with his brothers' and he in fact is breathing

> with higher frequency and I see a serious logic to this

> progressive strangulation -the physio's word is hard but

> speaks to itself- mechanism.

>

> If we share the thinking that it makes sense, I would like

> to review solutions or techniques, especially for young

> childs, as well, as I am trying to find techniques but

> am aware of it very recently.

>

> Liv,

> Dad of Godefroy (6)

[Guest guest]

on 3/3/03 11:29 AM, wendicode at

wendicode@... wrote:

> My son is only 18mos, but I can see that he doesn't breathe as deeply

> as his sister (wocf). I think that a wonderful activity for cf kids

> would be yoga. It has a lot of focus on deep breathing. I'm not sure

> what age would be appropriate to start though, because it requires a

> lot of concentration and discipline.

>

> Wendi

> Mom to Keira (3 wocf) and (18mos wcf)

Wendi and any one else who is interested,

You can buy books on introductory yoga for children - I think the books are

aimed at children from about 4 and up. The girls and I do yoga together

sometimes, just for fun. You should see us trying to do blackbird - I have

to line up cushions on the floor for us to fall into. Everyone's favourite

is sleeping snake. I lie down on the floor, and breathe diaphramatically.

( " Yes Sian, mummy is making her tummy go up when she breathes in. You need

to do that too. " ) Then Cate lies down with her head on my tummy and matches

my breathing. Then Sian lies down with her head on Cate's tummy and matches

her breathing.

Wonderfully relaxing, but challenging if the puppy wants to join in!

Much love to all,

-

Mum to Cate 10yrs wocf and Sian 6yrs wcf, asthma, GERD and ADD

Canberra Australia-

[Guest guest]

Hi Liv,

I think that's a very important point that your physiotherapeuts mention

here. And I am reliefed that in Germany it's part of the standard treatment

to fight against this vicious circle. Are you familar with autogenic

drainage? That's an advanced breathing technique, invented by Dr. Chevalier

from the clinic in De Haan, Belgium. The aim of that technique is to move

the mucus out of the lung just with the breaths and without any other

devices. Once they've learned how to do that the pwcf are independent from

others and they get a very good feeling about how the air moves in their

lung. Fiona will start to learn it this year, but it will take her two or

three years to become perfect.

Peace

Torsten, dad of Fiona 6wcf

e-mail: torstenkrafft@...

Vicious circle of breathing with only the upper part of

the lungs

> Hi all,

>

> I have been made aware of this list by Torsten and it's a

> great pleasure to join such an active group who shares such

> an important issue.

>

> I don't know if anyone has been made aware of a vicious

> mechanism that gets " installed " when very young, by I heard

> this from two physios, I think it makes really sense and would

> like to exchange solutions.

>

> Basically the automatism goes like this and it starts when

> very young :

> Because of the mucus and because he doesn't want to cough,

> the child (my son is CF, aged 6) is uncomfortable with normal,

> deep breathing, hence he tends to breathe with the cleaner,

> ventilated, upper parts of the lungs, then he doesn't ventilate

> the lower parts, which become more and more infected, and

> he even breathes less with the lower parts, ... and the

> non-ventilated parts gets upper and upper.

>

> Another way to see it is that as he breathes more and more

> with the upper parts, he gets less and less oxygen, hence he

> does what we intuitively do when we lack oxygen (say when

> we are in a closed room) : we accelerate breathing. But by

> accelerating breathing he breathes with only the upper parts

> of the lungs etc, etc...

>

> In my view it's an important matter because breathing is

> unconscious, we do it 24 hours a day, the way he breathes

> is being set now while he is very young, and he is reluctant to

> applying deep breathing, eg by applying something that

> makes him uncomfortable.

>

> I don't know if this rings a bell to the group but as a matter

> of fact I have listened often to the breathing of my son,

> compared it with his brothers' and he in fact is breathing

> with higher frequency and I see a serious logic to this

> progressive strangulation -the physio's word is hard but

> speaks to itself- mechanism.

>

> If we share the thinking that it makes sense, I would like

> to review solutions or techniques, especially for young

> childs, as well, as I am trying to find techniques but

> am aware of it very recently.

>

> Liv,

> Dad of Godefroy (6)