Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/03 11:20:25 AM, Graduate-OSSG writes: << One of the major reasons health care is goin' to hell in a hand basket is that so many people use the ER as a place for primary care. >> Dear Randy... this has to be placed at the feet of the docs in private praactice. hen you call for an appointment, it is usually so far off in time, that you will be dead and gone before they can see you. Every doc I know says GO TO THE ER. The ER, via managed care, has become the people's outpatient clinic. Nothing is the way it used to be. You do important work Randy. The souls of those there need your evenhanded touch. We never know which ones are angels in disguise. But for sure you are. love, ceep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 You misunderstood. It was not $200.00 but $200K, which is $200,000. --- Randy Ogle rlogle@...> wrote: > Well, sorry I can't feel sorry for surgeons havin' > to pay over $200.00 a > year for malpractice insurance. The ER docs that I > work with make over, not > gonna say how much over, but over $150.00 per hour. > Their not salaried, they > don't bill, they are paid hourly.... As an ER nurse > I'm also paid hourly. My > malpractice insurance is $84.00 per year. My hourly > rate is so, I mean SO, > much less than theirs. Now... If you take my hourly > rate, their hourly rate, > what we both pay in malpractice insurance... average > all that out then I pay > about a gazillion freakin' dollars more than they > do.... Boo hoo, poor me... > I'm gonna freakin' strike.. OH Pahlease.... What > surgeons need is to get > over themselves, remember why they went into > medicine in the first place, > pay the measley little $200/yr and get on with their > lives. Believe me this > is not somethin' I wouldn't tell them, in fact one > of my best friends is a > cardio-thoracic surgeon, and he hung up on me last > night 'cause we were > arguing about this. > Even though it doesn't seem like it, I have much > respect for many surgeons. > The rate of lawsuits in this country is horrific, we > do need new laws, > however, we also need people to pay their fair > share. > And how is everyone else today? > Randy > rlogle@... > www.geocities.com/rogle32/ > AIM: rlogleeln > Open RNY: Sept. 26, 2001: 205 lbs gone. > Daddy to Doogun, Jasper, and Zoe. > Lord, Please help me to become the Person > my Dog's think I am. > Re: Surgeon's strike > > > > > > > > > > did you see the Dateline special about 2 wk. ago > where the guy had > > knee or hip surgery and was charged for all sorts > of strange items? > > I loved it that the box of tissues were called > mucus recovery system. > > << > > *****Yes, that was the show I was thinking of. > What did they call > > his bloodwork? Chord blood or something? > > > > >> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose > if my ins. wasn't > > paying for the surgeries then I would have > requested a bill. > > > sue > > > > ******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an > eye-opener! Funny, > > though, when I self-paid for my TT, it was the > easiest billing > > (albeit expensive) ever. Flat fees for the > surgeon, anesthesiologist > > and the surgical suite...no extra padded charges > at all. But > > insurance doesn't audit the bills, and patients > don't question when > > insurance pays. > > > > in NJ > > > > > > Homepage: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG > > > > Unsubscribe: > mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/03 7:20:41 AM Central Standard Time, datwell@... writes: << Just my .02 cents -- we can be responsible for some things and other things we can't be but for those things we can change -- we can change... each person who protests at least " one " charge on a hospital bill is " helping the cause " for all of us... be that one person... -------------------------------- I can certainly second the motion on this one. Accountability is something that is sorely missing in so many areas of life in this country. WE must step up and take responsibility for righting the wrongs and responsibility for ourselves and all matters that affect us. I just recently read somewhere (wish my brain worked well enuf to remember WHERE) that fully 85-90% of ALL hospital bills contain errors of some kind! That is just simply amazing. The buck has to stop here, with you, with me, with each of us. Another thing I can tell you from my own experience is that just last year I found TWO instances where my health insurance company had double-paid the same bills, several months apart. In both cases, it was I who caught the problem and notified the company-- and stayed on their case till I knew the hospital had paid them back the overpayments. One was around $6000 and the other about $3000. My dental insurance double paid on one $250 bill. And if you think it's too nebulous to feel responsible for catching these kinds of errors and that someone else should take the responsibility bcuz it doesn't really affect you directly? It does. I think everyone has a lifetime cap on benefits; ANYthing your insurance pays on your behalf is subtracted from your remaining lifetime benefit. God forbid anyone ends up with a catastrophic illness that can wipe out your lifetime cap in a relatively short period of time. Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/03 8:11:22 AM Central Standard Time, rudnicki@... writes: << I suppose if my ins. wasn't paying for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill. >> --------------------------------- Your insurance may be paying for things they shouldn't. They're not good at all at catching errors on bills. You might, if you go back and check over your past bills, find a number of mistakes they could ask for reimbursement on from the hospital(s) and reinstate some of your lifetime benefit cap. Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/03 8:41:36 AM Central Standard Time, watnext@... writes: << Because we obviously can not (or at least I can't) know and understand what each thing on that bill stands for (they make it impossible to read for a reason) >> ----------------------------- That's when u pick up the telephone and call the hospital and pin 'em down and keep after them until you DO understand every cottonpickin' thing they charged for. If EVERY person did it, they might just stop making the bills so cryptic; it would cost them too much money to hire extra staff to answer all the phone calls and q's...... Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/03 8:48:42 AM Central Standard Time, watnext@... writes: << But insurance doesn't audit the bills, and patients don't question when insurance pays. >> ------------------------------- If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...............we can only blame ourselves for escalating costs if we don't insist on knowing what we OR the insurance co's are paying for. Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/9/03 11:15:30 AM Central Standard Time, nanpug@... writes: << she said nope, that is considered both a " consult " and and " exam " ......he was allowed to bill for both.......personally I thought it was a total rip-off, >> ---------------------------- I suppose this is the sort of crap they have to resort to in order to pay those huge malpractice insurance premiums? Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/03 1:11:44 AM Central Standard Time, vitalady@... writes: << and this is the head Pinner-Downer Person, right here. If you need lessons on tenacity, Carol A is the leader! LOL! >> ----------------------------- , this one really did make me LOL. With all capital letters. Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 I believe the insurance (correct me if I am wrong) only pays a contract price for a procedure, meaning a flat rate, so they could care less about an itemized bill. I think the bill is mostly for internal purposes only. Fay Bayuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 I don't know what state you live in, but here in Florida the malpractice insurance is more like 120k a year, depending on the field. Re: Surgeon's strike > > > > > > > > > > did you see the Dateline special about 2 wk. ago where the guy had > > knee or hip surgery and was charged for all sorts of strange items? > > I loved it that the box of tissues were called mucus recovery system. > > << > > *****Yes, that was the show I was thinking of. What did they call > > his bloodwork? Chord blood or something? > > > > >> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose if my ins. wasn't > > paying for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill. > > > sue > > > > ******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an eye-opener! Funny, > > though, when I self-paid for my TT, it was the easiest billing > > (albeit expensive) ever. Flat fees for the surgeon, anesthesiologist > > and the surgical suite...no extra padded charges at all. But > > insurance doesn't audit the bills, and patients don't question when > > insurance pays. > > > > in NJ > > > > > > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG > > > > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 > That's when u pick up the telephone and call the hospital and pin 'em down > and keep after them until you DO understand every cottonpickin' thing they > charged for. ************* and this is the head Pinner-Downer Person, right here. If you need lessons on tenacity, Carol A is the leader! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/2003 3:44:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@... writes: > I believe the insurance (correct me if I am wrong) only pays a contract > price > for a procedure, meaning a flat rate, so they could care less about an > itemized bill. I think the bill is mostly for internal purposes only. ******************************* OK, all our CPA's, this is interesting...does this mean the Hospital can write off their " losses " or whatever insurance doesn't pay, therefore, padding the bill? in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/2003 8:57:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, watnext@... writes: << OK, all our CPA's, this is interesting...does this mean the Hospital can write off their " losses " >> Not exactly. They are going to recognize only the revenue that is actually collected, not what is billed. But they are only going to offset actual expenses against those collections. Of course it goes through many layers of manipulations to get to that point. The point of that billing is that a private pay or out of network person is actually going to pay those charges. Medicare is pretty much setting the standards for reimbursement at this time and private insurance companies are using that as a benchmark. 25 years ago when I first worked in the healthcare industry medicare was one of the poorest third party payors out there, now it's one of the better ones. Take a good look at your eob's. It is shocking how little some procedures are reimbursed and the docs or labs have no recourse. I don't blame the providers for pulling out of network. I don't want someone arbitrarily slashing my bills in half, then waiting 90 days to pay me, or claiming they never got the bills and forcing me to spend the time and money to send the bills 2 and 3 times every single time. That's what is happening to ALL the doctors. The financial reality of medicine is pretty bleak right now. You know how maddening it is to deal with the insurance companies when we are trying to get approval for these WLS and PS procedures?? That's about par for the course every day trying to get paid for services. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/03 2:44:48 AM Central Standard Time, fbayuk@... writes: << I believe the insurance (correct me if I am wrong) only pays a contract price for a procedure, meaning a flat rate, so they could care less about an itemized bill. I think the bill is mostly for internal purposes only. >> ---------------------------- Even so, they should be interested in NOT paying for things u didn't get, didn't have done, don't ya think? Carol A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Oh, YEAH! Forgot to mention that in MY reply. I have to pay 20% of everything, even tho I have a PPO. So if I don't check the bills, and the insurance pays on something, then the hospital, doc, whatever, bills me for the balance, the 20%. You'd better believe THAT adds up over a year! Carol A In a message dated 1/10/03 10:41:05 AM Central Standard Time, loriowen@... writes: << know that's true for HMO's and possibly PPO's but there are other insurance policies where they pay a percentage and we pay a percentage. It is to our benefit, in those cases, to get itemized bills. Lori Owen - Denton, Texas CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs. SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs. Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:44:10 EST fbayuk@... writes: > I believe the insurance (correct me if I am wrong) only pays a > contract price > for a procedure, meaning a flat rate, so they could care less about > an > itemized bill. I think the bill is mostly for internal purposes > only. > > Fay Bayuk >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Just write me and ask, LOL ! I'll pointcha inna rite direction. Carol A In a message dated 1/10/03 10:42:15 AM Central Standard Time, loriowen@... writes: << Where do we sign up for classes? Lori Owen - Denton, Texas CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs. SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs. Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:10:57 -0600 " Vitalady " vitalady@...> writes: > and this is the head Pinner-Downer Person, right here. If you need > lessons > on tenacity, Carol A is the leader! LOL! >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 DON'T get me started on ins & how they pay. First, for these surgeries, surgeon's fee is around $10K (YMMV, add hospital, annes, assist. surgeon). But roughly, $10K for surgeon #1. And Fed BC/BS & Boeing pay less than $1500. If malpractice ins is $100K per year, it takes the first 100 pts JUST to pay that, and keep the lights on in the office. To meet payroll, there have to be LOTS more of them, and to generate a paycheck, even more. With no complications. The cash pays make up for it, for sure. Else, how the heck would they keep gas in the car & pay the pager bill? I'm STILL trying to get Don's kidney stone paid for 2/5/01. Dr's not in network, yes he is, no he isn't. 8 months later, I broke loose the first appt. There were 2 follow-ups. He's not in network, yes he is, no he isn't, for each appt. I'm still trying to get the April f/u visit paid. After we determined he IS in network, new each time, she says, well, by April he shoudla known this guy is not in network and chosen someone else. AAAAAAAAAAA! Not to mention that you don't do surgery with one guy & do your 1 month f/u elsewhere, unless extreme circumstances. I can see him going to another urologist saying, " So, and how'd my surgery go? " OK,. I'm hyperventialzting now. Thanks, Vitalady, Inc. T www.vitalady.com If you are interested in PayPal, please click here: https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com Re: Re: Surgeon's strike > In a message dated 1/10/2003 8:57:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, > watnext@... writes: > << OK, all our CPA's, this is interesting...does this mean the Hospital can > write off their " losses " >> > Not exactly. > They are going to recognize only the revenue that is actually collected, not > what is billed. But they are only going to offset actual expenses against > those collections. Of course it goes through many layers of manipulations to > get to that point. > The point of that billing is that a private pay or out of network person is > actually going to pay those charges. Medicare is pretty much setting the > standards for reimbursement at this time and private insurance companies are > using that as a benchmark. 25 years ago when I first worked in the healthcare > industry medicare was one of the poorest third party payors out there, now > it's one of the better ones. > Take a good look at your eob's. It is shocking how little some procedures > are reimbursed and the docs or labs have no recourse. I don't blame the > providers for pulling out of network. I don't want someone arbitrarily > slashing my bills in half, then waiting 90 days to pay me, or claiming they > never got the bills and forcing me to spend the time and money to send the > bills 2 and 3 times every single time. That's what is happening to ALL the > doctors. The financial reality of medicine is pretty bleak right now. You > know how maddening it is to deal with the insurance companies when we are > trying to get approval for these WLS and PS procedures?? That's about par > for the course every day trying to get paid for services. > B > > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG > > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/2003 10:45:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, NGBCPA1 writes: > > In a message dated 1/10/2003 8:57:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, > watnext@... writes: > << OK, all our CPA's, this is interesting...does this mean the Hospital can > > write off their " losses " >> > ******* Not exactly. > They are going to recognize only the revenue that is actually > collected, not what is billed. But they are only going to offset actual > expenses against those collections. Of course it goes through many layers > of manipulations to get to that point > ******************* I probably didn't explain my question well, but as a self-employed person, there's a way to write off bad debt on your taxes. IOW, if I perform a job or service for someone and never get paid, that unpaid fee can be considered bad debt and be written off on my taxes. So, if a hospital bills for all sorts of things, and their contract agreement is for a much lesser amount, can they write off the difference as a loss? in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Where do we sign up for classes? Lori Owen - Denton, Texas CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs. SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs. Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:10:57 -0600 " Vitalady " vitalady@...> writes: > and this is the head Pinner-Downer Person, right here. If you need > lessons > on tenacity, Carol A is the leader! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 I know that's true for HMO's and possibly PPO's but there are other insurance policies where they pay a percentage and we pay a percentage. It is to our benefit, in those cases, to get itemized bills. Lori Owen - Denton, Texas CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs. SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs. Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:44:10 EST fbayuk@... writes: > I believe the insurance (correct me if I am wrong) only pays a > contract price > for a procedure, meaning a flat rate, so they could care less about > an > itemized bill. I think the bill is mostly for internal purposes > only. > > Fay Bayuk > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:54:32 EST tuesdynite@... writes: > Even so, they should be interested in NOT paying for things u didn't > get, > didn't have done, don't ya think? > > Carol A You would think so but I seriously doubt it. I'll give you an example. I had congestive heart failure in May 2001. I was in Cardiac Rehab. Cigna paid a flat rate to HealthSouth and irregardless of what they did, gave me, etc. that was all they were going to get. It covered all of my meds, a second sleep study, occupational theraphy, physical therapy, a therapist at no additional charge. It even included respiratory therapy and rental of the equipment for my sleep apnea (was promoted to a BiPap.) I can guarantee you Cigna did not pay nearly the $20,000 a week that HealthSouth billed them. Lori Owen - Denton, Texas CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs. SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs. Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/2003 4:09:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, watnext@... writes: << I probably didn't explain my question well, but as a self-employed person, there's a way to write off bad debt on your taxes. IOW, if I perform a job or service for someone and never get paid, that unpaid fee can be considered bad debt and be written off on my taxes. >> If you recognize your total revenue as it is BILLED, then you never collect it, of course you can write off the difference. Even the IRS is not going to tax us on revenue never collected. The bottom line is, if you recognize your revenue when you bill it, you recognize discounts and bad debts. If you recognize revenue when you collect it then you cannot take any credits for bad debts or discounts cause you only recognize what you collect to begin with. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 In a message dated 1/10/2003 5:11:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, NGBCPA1 writes: > If you recognize your total revenue as it is BILLED, then you never collect > it, of course you can write off the difference. Even the IRS is not going > to tax us on revenue never collected. The bottom line is, if you recognize > your revenue when you bill it, you recognize discounts and bad debts. If > you recognize revenue when you collect it then you cannot take any credits > for bad debts or discounts cause you only recognize what you collect to > begin with. ****************** Ah, gotcha, thank you. I never did understand all that stuff (definite mental block), that's why I just drop everything off at my accountant's and say " You do it. " LOL in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Thanks Carol. Lori O. On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:37:10 EST Tuesdynite@... writes: > Just write me and ask, LOL ! I'll pointcha inna rite direction. > > Carol A > > In a message dated 1/10/03 10:42:15 AM Central Standard Time, > loriowen@... writes: > > << Where do we sign up for classes? > Lori Owen - Denton, Texas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Not a CPA but have done accounting for about 12 years. In theory yes. Ultimately, you have to look at the amount collected and the amount you actually spent on the product. For example, if we get billed $12 for a tylenol, the hospital/doctor paid $1, they collected $2 from patient/insurance, they have still made a profit. Clear as mud? Lori Owen - Denton, Texas CHF 4/14/01 479 lbs. SRVG 7/16/01 401 lbs. Current Weight 339.5 lbs. and loosing again Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:59:35 EST watnext@... writes: > I probably didn't explain my question well, but as a self-employed > person, > there's a way to write off bad debt on your taxes. IOW, if I > perform a job > or service for someone and never get paid, that unpaid fee can be > considered > bad debt and be written off on my taxes. So, if a hospital bills > for all > sorts of things, and their contract agreement is for a much lesser > amount, > can they write off the difference as a loss? > > in NJ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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