Surgeon's strike

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/2003 7:34:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,

datwell@... writes:

> What's wrong is a whole list of issues -- first, VOTE... elect

> legislators

> that will cap both medical liability and costs of mal-practice insurance

> (this applies to homeowners, car and other insurances as well.)

>

*********, you're SO right! Voting is our American right and

privilege! I get so angry at people who still think they can't make a

difference.

>> Then, ask for a detailed billing -- no one knows better

than the patient what we got and what we didn't get but got charged for.

Because we obviously can not (or at least I can't) know and understand what

each thing on that bill stands for (they make it impossible to read for a

reason)

<<

**********One of the TV news magazines

, don't remember which one, recently had a segment on this. This has been

going on for years, and until it happens to a high-powered politician or

enough people finally raise a stink (again, voting is the best way to do

that), it will be the status quo.

Another example: Several years ago, a truck kicked up a rock which cracked

my car windshield. My insurance company at that time, Prudential, said they

only deal with ABC Glass Co., and to get it fixed there. Their estimate for

the windshield was $600. The guy even told me that they'd charge me $400,

and bill insurance for $600. Because I had a $500 Comp. deductible anyway,

I decided to shop prices. Well, apparently the going rate for a windshield

was about $325. So, I called Prudential about this price gouging, and they

basically poo-poo'ed it. That money was going in someone's pocket, and I

doubt it was just the glass guy's. That type of game usually has both sides

colluding. IOW, Prudential is just not that stupid.

Yes, it's the consumer who ends up paying the bill.

in NJ

[Guest guest]

Well, it's only a matter of time before it goes nationwide, I

believe. First, in PA, then WV (I believe), and this morning I hear

surgeons in several counties in NJ may be striking soon. This means

no elective surgery, only emergencies. With malpractice ins. in

these areas up to $200K a year, I really don't blame them.

Unfortunately, the changes made usually involve the patient accepting

less coverage for the same $$$, rather than auditing the excessive

fees for a bandage that the hospitals charge, and the graft going on

within the insurance industry.

Here in NJ, we pay the highest car insurance rates in the country,

and what did out former Governer, Christie Whitman, do about it?

Nothing, except make the consumer give up the right to sue in

exchange for a lesser rate. What's wrong with this picture?

Sorry, just had to vent.

in NJ

[Guest guest]

>>>What's wrong with this picture?<<<

Venting is good and just to let ya' know one of our major car

insurers totally just pulled out of Texas last year as a result of the

increasing costs and lack of legislation to protect the insurer which left

everyone covered by them -- just " uncovered " in a days time.

What's wrong is a whole list of issues -- first, VOTE... elect legislators

that will cap both medical liability and costs of mal-practice insurance

(this applies to homeowners, car and other insurances as well.)

Second, any time WE go into the hospital or visit the ER for any reason --

when the bill comes (and is also sent to our insurance) ASK for a " detailed "

bill -- we, as lay people will not understand most of what is on there and

mostly as lay people we just " accept " those charges since our insurance is

picking it up anyway. Even still, as you are seeing happen in NJ, it is the

consumer who is hurt the most if we don't take the responsibility of asking

for a detailed bill and work with our health insurance people to make sure

we are NOT charged for services NOT rendered.

When I had a lower GI my bill had 4 shots of Demerol on it -- I am grossly

allergic to Demerol and no one would ever give me that -- each dose was

62.00 per shot and then an additional 12.00 to have the shot administered

X4 -- on the SAME bill was the Versed (sp?) that I did get the shots and

someone did administer the shots -- now if they would have given me BOTH

drugs for the 3 hours I was in the hospital I'm guessing I'd be dead or at

least WAY over dosed.

I found out when you register as an outpatient for a GI the Demerol

(standard drug) is just auto added to your bill -- they " assume " you will

get that so they auto add it -- THEN my insurance DID pay for it. It took me

4 months and a ton of phone calls with my insurance company working with me

to get that taken off my bill and the insurance reimbursed for a drug I

never got... am in-fact on the record at the hospital it shows I'm allergic

to that drug -- yet, it took forever to get it off my bill and my insurance

reimbursed.

Yes, I realize that it isn't " our " job to do this. But, when we don't do it

we will all end up like NJ and eventually health care is just going to be

non-existent...

I know that their are many people who are involved in the WHOLE process of

what they charge me to start with -- what I actually " get " and what is

billed to the insurance and then the insurance just pays it and on and on

and on.... so many people along the line should have looked at my bill

closely enough to see that error but they didn't and in the end...

eventually " I " will be the one paying for it one way or the other so ... if

I take the same attitude as everyone else and say it isn't my

responsibility -- well, that's probably true but it is me who will end up

with little or no health insurance -- not the " other them " who should have

been watching.

The same goes for frivolous law suits and enormous awards for punitive

damages paid out in all situations -- but, a doctor who looses a patient

isn't always the one responsible... some times it just happens. The doctor

who is doing surgery after a 3 martini lunch IS responsible and should be

made not only to pay everything he has from his own pocket including selling

his house, his cars, all his worldly good and paying it to the family but he

should loose his license for life as well -- the insurance company shouldn't

pick up the bill for a drunk doctor. That means the family will probably get

less but they will get everything the doctor has which is really who we are

suing... not the insurance but the doctor himself. And if that puts the

doctors family in the street... so be it...

Most of it comes back to us as individuals... not that is " should " be that

way but if it isn't then we are the ones who end up suffering as a result

when we " can " take action to protect ourselves and our insurance companies.

I am not saying it is our job to do that -- just that if we don't make it

our job.... well, these are the results. Our first " job " is to go VOTE...

know your legislator and delve into the " how are they going to handle the

insurance legislation that goes on the floor almost every session... " then,

vote accordingly. Then, ask for a detailed billing -- no one knows better

than the patient what we got and what we didn't get but got charged for.

Because we obviously can not (or at least I can't) know and understand what

each thing on that bill stands for (they make it impossible to read for a

reason) call your insurance person and ask them to " de-code " it with you...

BALK when you get charged for services you didn't get... even if it isn't

coming out of your pocket right now it will eventually and in ways that are

much bigger than we have control over.

Just my .02 cents -- we can be responsible for some things and other things

we can't be but for those things we can change -- we can change... each

person who protests at least " one " charge on a hospital bill is " helping the

cause " for all of us... be that one person...

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/2003 10:19:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,

datwell@... writes:

> HA... the office gets seriously rude when you do ask for one. I've never

> been treated kindly by asking for an itemized copy so be sure to ask AFTER

> your discharged!!!

*********************

LOL Good point!

in NJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/2003 12:48:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rlogle@... writes:

> l, sorry I can't feel sorry for surgeons havin' to pay over $200.00 a

> year for malpractice insurance. The ER docs that I work with make over, not

> gonna say how much over, but over $150.00 per hour. Their not salaried,

> they

> don't bill, they are paid hourly.... As an ER nurse I'm also paid hourly.

> My

> malpractice insurance is $84.00 per year.

*************************

Randy, I'm sure you meant surgeon's insurance is over $200,000 per year, and

your's is $8,400/yr. Correct? I understand your point, but even at $150/hr,

based on a 40 hour work week (I know it's often more or less), times 50 weeks

(I know they take more than 2 weeks vacation & not counting golf course

time), that still only amounts to $300,000/yr. I know it's all relative, but

after paying malpractice, $100,000 is not a whole lot by today's standards.

After all, how will they pay for their Mercedes?

in NJ

[Guest guest]

WV went on strike right before christmas.

I havent' continued to follow it though. I know they returned around new

years when the govn. began a panel of mediators or something to look at

solutions. they were looking at something that PA did.

Bill from WV you out there? whats the status?

sue

Surgeon's strike

> Well, it's only a matter of time before it goes nationwide, I

> believe. First, in PA, then WV (I believe), and this morning I hear

> surgeons in several counties in NJ may be striking soon. This means

> no elective surgery, only emergencies. With malpractice ins. in

> these areas up to $200K a year, I really don't blame them.

> Unfortunately, the changes made usually involve the patient accepting

> less coverage for the same $$$, rather than auditing the excessive

> fees for a bandage that the hospitals charge, and the graft going on

> within the insurance industry.

>

> Here in NJ, we pay the highest car insurance rates in the country,

> and what did out former Governer, Christie Whitman, do about it?

> Nothing, except make the consumer give up the right to sue in

> exchange for a lesser rate. What's wrong with this picture?

>

> Sorry, just had to vent.

>

> in NJ

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> When I had a lower GI my bill had 4 shots of Demerol on it -- I am grossly

> allergic to Demerol and no one would ever give me that -- each dose was

> 62.00 per shot and then an additional 12.00 to have the shot administered

> X4 -- on the SAME bill was the Versed (sp?) that I did get the shots and

> someone did administer the shots -- now if they would have given me BOTH

> drugs for the 3 hours I was in the hospital I'm guessing I'd be dead or at

> least WAY over dosed.

did you see the Dateline special about 2 wk. ago where the guy had knee or

hip surgery and was charged for all sorts of strange items? I loved it that

the box of tissues were called mucus recovery system. nothing is free in

the hosp, not even tissues, whether you use them or not.

I normally don't watch dateline, but happened to be switching channels at

the moment they said Alleghany Regional Hosp. which is where I had my

surgery - 7 of them. but there is also an Alleghany in PA so I continued to

watch to see which hosp. it was. I've never seen a full itemized bill. I

suppose if my ins. wasn't paying for the surgeries then I would have

requested a bill.

sue

[Guest guest]

>

> did you see the Dateline special about 2 wk. ago where the guy had

knee or hip surgery and was charged for all sorts of strange items?

I loved it that the box of tissues were called mucus recovery system.

<<

*****Yes, that was the show I was thinking of. What did they call

his bloodwork? Chord blood or something?

>> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose if my ins. wasn't

paying for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill.

> sue

******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an eye-opener! Funny,

though, when I self-paid for my TT, it was the easiest billing

(albeit expensive) ever. Flat fees for the surgeon, anesthesiologist

and the surgical suite...no extra padded charges at all. But

insurance doesn't audit the bills, and patients don't question when

insurance pays.

in NJ

[Guest guest]

>>> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose if my ins. wasn't paying

for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill.

> ******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an eye-opener!<<<

I wonder -- just how big of a difference it would make if we all just

requested a full itemized bill -- not that we have time to look at it or are

actually going to do anything about it... just if hospitals started getting

EVERYONE to just " ask " for one -- wonder if they would start paying closer

attention just if they " think " we are looking???

I think if it was a nation wide movement to get everyone to " request " an

itemized bill no matter what... bet hospitals would begin to look at the

billing system a little closer....

I never have NOT asked for one for years -- can't remember the " why " I

began doing that but I do remember it was 22 years ago when my first child

was born that I asked for one... I think it was the nurse who told me --

when I asked for a Tylenol, she said something about my husband bringing me

some because they charged like 7 dollars for one back then or something like

that -- anyway, I've asked for one ever since that time. I don't always go

over the details because... I'm lazy, don't have time to fight every friggin

charge and I'm lazy when my insurance picks up the whole thing. But, I still

ask for it... I get it... I file it... some time's I do look at it and

question it and such but not often.

HA... the office gets seriously rude when you do ask for one. I've never

been treated kindly by asking for an itemized copy so be sure to ask AFTER

your discharged!!!

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I am not sure how much they would do about it either.......a couple of

months ago I went to a new GYN....was floored when I got the insurance

papers. He billed me TWICE for one visit. $198.00 twice.....thought for

sure insurance was going to be so thankful to me for pointing this

out........NOPE, they asked me if the guy talked to me with my clothes on

BEFORE he examined me....I said " yeah, isn't that what they are supposed to

do? " ........she said nope, that is considered both a " consult " and and

" exam " ......he was allowed to bill for both.......personally I thought it

was a total rip-off, not just because he was a total A--......but because I

thought a good Doc SHOULD talk to you first with your clothes on!!!!!!!

P.

RE: Re: Surgeon's strike

> >>> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose if my ins. wasn't

paying

> for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill.

> > ******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an eye-opener!<<<

>

> I wonder -- just how big of a difference it would make if we all just

> requested a full itemized bill -- not that we have time to look at it or

are

> actually going to do anything about it... just if hospitals started

getting

> EVERYONE to just " ask " for one -- wonder if they would start paying closer

> attention just if they " think " we are looking???

> I think if it was a nation wide movement to get everyone to " request " an

> itemized bill no matter what... bet hospitals would begin to look at the

> billing system a little closer....

>

> I never have NOT asked for one for years -- can't remember the " why " I

> began doing that but I do remember it was 22 years ago when my first child

> was born that I asked for one... I think it was the nurse who told me --

> when I asked for a Tylenol, she said something about my husband bringing

me

> some because they charged like 7 dollars for one back then or something

like

> that -- anyway, I've asked for one ever since that time. I don't always go

> over the details because... I'm lazy, don't have time to fight every

friggin

> charge and I'm lazy when my insurance picks up the whole thing. But, I

still

> ask for it... I get it... I file it... some time's I do look at it and

> question it and such but not often.

> HA... the office gets seriously rude when you do ask for one. I've never

> been treated kindly by asking for an itemized copy so be sure to ask AFTER

> your discharged!!!

>

> hugz,

> ~denise

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, sorry I can't feel sorry for surgeons havin' to pay over $200.00 a

year for malpractice insurance. The ER docs that I work with make over, not

gonna say how much over, but over $150.00 per hour. Their not salaried, they

don't bill, they are paid hourly.... As an ER nurse I'm also paid hourly. My

malpractice insurance is $84.00 per year. My hourly rate is so, I mean SO,

much less than theirs. Now... If you take my hourly rate, their hourly rate,

what we both pay in malpractice insurance... average all that out then I pay

about a gazillion freakin' dollars more than they do.... Boo hoo, poor me...

I'm gonna freakin' strike.. OH Pahlease.... What surgeons need is to get

over themselves, remember why they went into medicine in the first place,

pay the measley little $200/yr and get on with their lives. Believe me this

is not somethin' I wouldn't tell them, in fact one of my best friends is a

cardio-thoracic surgeon, and he hung up on me last night 'cause we were

arguing about this.

Even though it doesn't seem like it, I have much respect for many surgeons.

The rate of lawsuits in this country is horrific, we do need new laws,

however, we also need people to pay their fair share.

And how is everyone else today?

Randy

rlogle@...

www.geocities.com/rogle32/

AIM: rlogleeln

Open RNY: Sept. 26, 2001: 205 lbs gone.

Daddy to Doogun, Jasper, and Zoe.

Lord, Please help me to become the Person

my Dog's think I am.

Re: Surgeon's strike

>

> >

> > did you see the Dateline special about 2 wk. ago where the guy had

> knee or hip surgery and was charged for all sorts of strange items?

> I loved it that the box of tissues were called mucus recovery system.

> <<

> *****Yes, that was the show I was thinking of. What did they call

> his bloodwork? Chord blood or something?

>

> >> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose if my ins. wasn't

> paying for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill.

> > sue

>

> ******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an eye-opener! Funny,

> though, when I self-paid for my TT, it was the easiest billing

> (albeit expensive) ever. Flat fees for the surgeon, anesthesiologist

> and the surgical suite...no extra padded charges at all. But

> insurance doesn't audit the bills, and patients don't question when

> insurance pays.

>

> in NJ

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I can't believe that! WOW........I would have figured, just like

everyone else, that if you were scheduled for an exam that he would be

REQUIRED to talk to you FIRST....with your CLOTHES on! That (in my NOT

so HUMBLE opinion) should be considered part of the exam. Makes you

WONDER, who is the REAL problem here......the insurance companies or the

docs who over bill.

Debbie in Gig Harbor

[Guest guest]

Oh, and another thing. One of the major reasons health care is goin' to hell

in a hand basket is that so many people use the ER as a place for primary

care. I see some of the same patients on a weekly, at times, bi-weekly

basis. They come in with everything from a headache, cold, cough, stumped

toe, ingrown toenail, " a bump on my back for three years. " They don't care

that the tylenol/motrin we give them is gonna cost (someone) $12, their not

gonna pay for it anyway. You can't walk into the room and breath because the

smell of smoke from cigarettes is so strong, then they'll ask for a lorcet

take home pack because they can't afford to get a prescription filled. What

we need to do is pass a law that if your condition is not a threat to life

or limb your ass is booted out the front door. If you smoke, buy your cancer

sticks then by-GOD we are NOT gonna keep you in your drugs. Of course you

can't do that, you just smile, write the script hand it to them along with a

few to take home with 'em. I had a 26y/o male last night, cerebral bleed,

flew him out later. Had to treat him, mannitol and all, in the hall, because

we had a lady (read: frequent flyer, drug seeker) in our last open room c/o

pain at a fingernail she'd cut down to the quick, one week earlier.

I love my job.

Randy

rlogle@...

www.geocities.com/rogle32/

AIM: rlogleeln

Open RNY: Sept. 26, 2001: 205 lbs gone.

Daddy to Doogun, Jasper, and Zoe.

Lord, Please help me to become the Person

my Dog's think I am.

RE: Re: Surgeon's strike

> >>> I've never seen a full itemized bill. I suppose if my ins. wasn't

paying

> for the surgeries then I would have requested a bill.

> > ******Neither have I, but I'll bet it would be an eye-opener!<<<

>

> I wonder -- just how big of a difference it would make if we all just

> requested a full itemized bill -- not that we have time to look at it or

are

> actually going to do anything about it... just if hospitals started

getting

> EVERYONE to just " ask " for one -- wonder if they would start paying closer

> attention just if they " think " we are looking???

> I think if it was a nation wide movement to get everyone to " request " an

> itemized bill no matter what... bet hospitals would begin to look at the

> billing system a little closer....

>

> I never have NOT asked for one for years -- can't remember the " why " I

> began doing that but I do remember it was 22 years ago when my first child

> was born that I asked for one... I think it was the nurse who told me --

> when I asked for a Tylenol, she said something about my husband bringing

me

> some because they charged like 7 dollars for one back then or something

like

> that -- anyway, I've asked for one ever since that time. I don't always go

> over the details because... I'm lazy, don't have time to fight every

friggin

> charge and I'm lazy when my insurance picks up the whole thing. But, I

still

> ask for it... I get it... I file it... some time's I do look at it and

> question it and such but not often.

> HA... the office gets seriously rude when you do ask for one. I've never

> been treated kindly by asking for an itemized copy so be sure to ask AFTER

> your discharged!!!

>

> hugz,

> ~denise

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>