Re: Stimming---how do you help them stop this?

[Guest guest]

,

I have read that giving magnesium is supposed to help calm stimming down.

Dana

Dana

and Garrett, 3 years old as of Mar 24

SCD One Year!!!!!

Celiac, ASD, Speech and Motor Apraxia, sensory processing disorder

---------------------------------

Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on,

when.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My little twin grandsons both stim a lot. I can say " Good Hands " and they

stop, but soon start it up again. I was wondering too if there was anything

more I could do to help them stop. I noticed Will yesterday morning he had

his Paw Paw's socks he had gotten out to wear to church and he was slinging

them in front of his little face non stop. I had to take them away from him

to get him to stop.

,

Granny to Matt and Will

[Guest guest]

There's 2 schools of though on stimming.

1. they need this for some reason so, if they aren't self harming,

let them do it.

2. They need to stop this because it interferes with learning time,

makes them stand out in social situations, etc so make them stop.

I think I am somewhere in between. For the autistic child I think I

lean toward let them do what they need to do if the stimming is

calming in some way. My daughter had minimal stimming behaviors and

most of them could also fall under the category of her sensory

seeking stuff as well. I think her jumping sometimes crossed the

line into stimming. For us, I just took it on a case by case basis.

Verbal ticks that my daughter used for stimming I put an end to

because they would be disruptive in a classroom. Jumping I corralled

into using it when needed if it would help her to focus but not

letting her go so far as to be zoning out on it (i.e. when she was in

bed and just wouldn't stop.... but also was using it to keep herself

awake). Read up on stimming and see where you stand on this. There

are many parents who think it is mean to make them stop and there are

just as many who think that they must get them to stop.

How's that for " clear as mud " ?

Kris

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Jul 16, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Chain wrote:

> Hi ,

> My little twin grandsons both stim a lot. I can say " Good Hands "

> and they

> stop, but soon start it up again. I was wondering too if there was

> anything

> more I could do to help them stop. I noticed Will yesterday morning

> he had

> his Paw Paw's socks he had gotten out to wear to church and he was

> slinging

> them in front of his little face non stop. I had to take them away

> from him

> to get him to stop.

>

> ,

> Granny to Matt and Will

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just to warn you, I'm not going to give a very specific answer .

I have 2 sons who both used to be major hand flappers. They flapped the most

when they were excited or trying to get out a lot of information all at once,

but my dyspraxic son also flapped at other times, even when just sitting around.

I never once told them to stop. For that matter, I never even pointed out to

them that they were hand flapping. However, they both stopped doing this at the

same time after we started our at-home therapy program. They are 3 years apart

in age, and the younger one is fairly neurotypical (speaks very well with no

learning or social problems, just has some minor coordination issues). I

mention this so you know this wasn't something they just " outgrew, " and my

severely dyspraxic son stopped doing it at the same time as my neurotypical son.

I never " therapied " specifically for hand flapping, but it stopped all the

same. I think stimming is just a sign of other underlying neurological issues.

If you heal the brain, the flapping will stop.

Kim with 4 cuties

Haukoos <catnip9@...> wrote:

There's 2 schools of though on stimming.

1. they need this for some reason so, if they aren't self harming,

let them do it.

2. They need to stop this because it interferes with learning time,

makes them stand out in social situations, etc so make them stop.

I think I am somewhere in between. For the autistic child I think I

lean toward let them do what they need to do if the stimming is

calming in some way. My daughter had minimal stimming behaviors and

most of them could also fall under the category of her sensory

seeking stuff as well. I think her jumping sometimes crossed the

line into stimming. For us, I just took it on a case by case basis.

Verbal ticks that my daughter used for stimming I put an end to

because they would be disruptive in a classroom. Jumping I corralled

into using it when needed if it would help her to focus but not

letting her go so far as to be zoning out on it (i.e. when she was in

bed and just wouldn't stop.... but also was using it to keep herself

awake). Read up on stimming and see where you stand on this. There

are many parents who think it is mean to make them stop and there are

just as many who think that they must get them to stop.

How's that for " clear as mud " ?

Kris

The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

http://www.sonnyandshear.com

On Jul 16, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Chain wrote:

> Hi ,

> My little twin grandsons both stim a lot. I can say " Good Hands "

> and they

> stop, but soon start it up again. I was wondering too if there was

> anything

> more I could do to help them stop. I noticed Will yesterday morning

> he had

> his Paw Paw's socks he had gotten out to wear to church and he was

> slinging

> them in front of his little face non stop. I had to take them away

> from him

> to get him to stop.

>

> ,

> Granny to Matt and Will

>

>

[Guest guest]

Personally, I think it is their form of expression. I think if we get

the toxins out they will likely revert to more typical forms of

communication. Obviously if it is self-harming we have to redirect.

Haukoos wrote:

>There's 2 schools of though on stimming.

>1. they need this for some reason so, if they aren't self harming,

>let them do it.

>2. They need to stop this because it interferes with learning time,

>makes them stand out in social situations, etc so make them stop.

>

>I think I am somewhere in between. For the autistic child I think I

>lean toward let them do what they need to do if the stimming is

>calming in some way. My daughter had minimal stimming behaviors and

>most of them could also fall under the category of her sensory

>seeking stuff as well. I think her jumping sometimes crossed the

>line into stimming. For us, I just took it on a case by case basis.

>Verbal ticks that my daughter used for stimming I put an end to

>because they would be disruptive in a classroom. Jumping I corralled

>into using it when needed if it would help her to focus but not

>letting her go so far as to be zoning out on it (i.e. when she was in

>bed and just wouldn't stop.... but also was using it to keep herself

>awake). Read up on stimming and see where you stand on this. There

>are many parents who think it is mean to make them stop and there are

>just as many who think that they must get them to stop.

>

>How's that for " clear as mud " ?

>

>Kris

>

>

>The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

>

>Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

>http://www.sonnyandshear.com

>

>

>

>

>On Jul 16, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Chain wrote:

>

>

>

>>Hi ,

>>My little twin grandsons both stim a lot. I can say " Good Hands "

>>and they

>>stop, but soon start it up again. I was wondering too if there was

>>anything

>>more I could do to help them stop. I noticed Will yesterday morning

>>he had

>>his Paw Paw's socks he had gotten out to wear to church and he was

>>slinging

>>them in front of his little face non stop. I had to take them away

>>from him

>>to get him to stop.

>>

>>,

>>Granny to Matt and Will

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Vicki,

If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

cure to autism!

There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

become insignificant to him.

The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

already addicted!

I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

Janice

#1

Hi Everyone,

Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

" Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

#2

" Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

the harder it is to make them stop.

My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

wall and stare at ceiling fans.

My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

stim " .

I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

see your child for the first time. They are a completely

different child and it is WONDERFUL.

#3

Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

intensity.

#4

There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

you are going to ask a question right after you make a

statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

in a story.

It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

individual programs.

__________________

#5

Stimming in general

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please know that this particular post is not a

recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

effective day.

Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

know, we can't increase the global processing if the

stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

activities that we have designed 24/7.

Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

child has responded well to program and we have had enough

progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

increase his language and processing abilities. The

wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

along by this point and on the continuum.

Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

His independent time is spent looking more and more like

neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

worked so hard to build will vanish.

Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

with hair.

It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

normal " category.

Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

there as fast as possible!

I hope this helps you all to understand that a

recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

children each and every one of them!!!!

[Guest guest]

>

> Personally, I think it is their form of expression. I think if we

get

> the toxins out they will likely revert to more typical forms of

> communication. Obviously if it is self-harming we have to redirect.

with Gage he spinned things, cars, toys, himself, he also used to

pick at things, like a hang nail until it bled. so that was easily

fixable by keeping his hands manicured. a lot of stimming can be

reduced if not completely with therapy, even home therapy, it's

called a sensory diet you use various therapudic excersizes,

brushing, heavy lifting, deep compressions, propreceptive work,

brushing techniques, if the stimming is hurtful see a therapist.

In seeking sensory stimulation, people tend to go to the sites where

there are many nerve endings. Hands, feet, mouth and the scalp are

common places. Many different behaviors could be used to perform

this balancing function externally. Hair pulling, skin picking, nail

biting, cheek biting, nose picking, *grin* are only a few of many

that I have seen. While any or all humans may engage in these

behaviors sometimes, the difference with SPD kids and adults, (whose

behaviors have become extreme versus those who are doing them on

occasion) are that they have considerable difficulty regulating

their internal levels of stimulation, and are utilizing these

methods for self-stimulation or self-soothing.

This behavior provides an SPD person with tactile Stimulation, by

touching, stroking, tugging and pulling hair. Visual stimulation

occurs when watching or observing hair during or after pulling, and

oral stimulation by chewing or sliding through teeth.

Why this could be helpful to an internal state of regulation to

satisfy both, or either, under- and over- stimulation comes with the

understanding that each type of stimulation is the polar opposite of

the other on a continuum of sensory stimulation levels. It can be

either soothing... or stimulating, and bring about changes and more

balance to internal regulation.

What to do? Is it becoming too much, destructive even? If this

person has already been diagnosed as an SPD child or adult, I would

recommend speaking to their therapist. Ask him/her about better ways

to learn to self-regulate. Find other, less destructive sources of

stimulation.

heidi

[Guest guest]

Hand flapping can be different from stimming if the child

flaps his hands because his proprioception is out of whack,

he may be flapping because of balance, vestibular and other

issues when he is running, walking etc.

If the child is hand-flapping as a sensory 'fun' time ie. he

is 'playing with the hand-flapping', then you need to

redirect his focus because he is using peripheral vision in

a weird way and just strengthening neurological connections

that we would rather the brain 'prune'. Lose those

dendrites!

Janice

Re: [ ] Stimming---how do you

help them stop this?

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:04:41 -0700 (PDT)

> Just to warn you, I'm not going to give a very specific

> answer .

>

> I have 2 sons who both used to be major hand flappers.

> They flapped the most when they were excited or trying to

> get out a lot of information all at once, but my dyspraxic

> son also flapped at other times, even when just sitting

> around. I never once told them to stop. For that matter,

> I never even pointed out to them that they were hand

> flapping. However, they both stopped doing this at the

> same time after we started our at-home therapy program.

> They are 3 years apart in age, and the younger one is

> fairly neurotypical (speaks very well with no learning or

> social problems, just has some minor coordination issues).

> I mention this so you know this wasn't something they

> just " outgrew, " and my severely dyspraxic son stopped

> doing it at the same time as my neurotypical son.

>

> I never " therapied " specifically for hand flapping, but

> it stopped all the same. I think stimming is just a sign

> of other underlying neurological issues. If you heal the

> brain, the flapping will stop.

>

>

> Kim with 4 cuties

>

> Haukoos <catnip9@...> wrote:

> There's 2 schools of though on stimming.

> 1. they need this for some reason so, if they aren't self

> harming, let them do it.

> 2. They need to stop this because it interferes with

> learning time, makes them stand out in social situations,

> etc so make them stop.

>

> I think I am somewhere in between. For the autistic child

> I think I lean toward let them do what they need to do if

> the stimming is calming in some way. My daughter had

> minimal stimming behaviors and most of them could also

> fall under the category of her sensory seeking stuff as

> well. I think her jumping sometimes crossed the line into

> stimming. For us, I just took it on a case by case basis.

> Verbal ticks that my daughter used for stimming I put an

> end to because they would be disruptive in a classroom.

> Jumping I corralled into using it when needed if it would

> help her to focus but not letting her go so far as to be

> zoning out on it (i.e. when she was in bed and just

> wouldn't stop.... but also was using it to keep herself

> awake). Read up on stimming and see where you stand on

> this. There are many parents who think it is mean to make

> them stop and there are just as many who think that they

> must get them to stop.

>

> How's that for " clear as mud " ?

>

> Kris

>

>

> The Knitting Wannabe http://knittingwannabe.typepad.com

>

> Sonny & Shear: The I’ve Got Ewe, Babe Yarn Shop

> http://www.sonnyandshear.com

>

>

>

>

> On Jul 16, 2007, at 7:35 PM, Chain wrote:

>

> > Hi ,

> > My little twin grandsons both stim a lot. I can say

> > " Good Hands " and they

> > stop, but soon start it up again. I was wondering too if

> > there was anything

> > more I could do to help them stop. I noticed Will

> > yesterday morning he had

> > his Paw Paw's socks he had gotten out to wear to church

> > and he was slinging

> > them in front of his little face non stop. I had to take

> > them away from him

> > to get him to stop.

> >

> > ,

> > Granny to Matt and Will

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Okay, now I have another question after reading all this info. My son likes to

run around the house. Back and forthusually laughing or just making sounds. Is

this stimming? He will also run with his sisters when they are running around

to try and play with them. But he will do this on his own. Now I am afraid

this could be another way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

Vicki,

If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

cure to autism!

There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

become insignificant to him.

The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

already addicted!

I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

Janice

#1

Hi Everyone,

Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

" Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

#2

" Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

the harder it is to make them stop.

My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

wall and stare at ceiling fans.

My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

stim " .

I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

see your child for the first time. They are a completely

different child and it is WONDERFUL.

#3

Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

intensity.

#4

There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

you are going to ask a question right after you make a

statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

in a story.

It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

individual programs.

__________________

#5

Stimming in general

----------------------------------------------------------

Please know that this particular post is not a

recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

effective day.

Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

know, we can't increase the global processing if the

stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

activities that we have designed 24/7.

Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

child has responded well to program and we have had enough

progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

increase his language and processing abilities. The

wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

along by this point and on the continuum.

Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

His independent time is spent looking more and more like

neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

worked so hard to build will vanish.

Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

with hair.

It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

normal " category.

Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

there as fast as possible!

I hope this helps you all to understand that a

recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

children each and every one of them!!!!

[Guest guest]

Wow! Great info on stimms. In my house, stimming is a " no-no " as

well. We were taught to redirect the stim to something appropriate

and to have our daughter look as " typical " as other kids. She liked

to spin in circles - when I would see her do it - if I could get to

her I would grab her hands and say " let's dance! " and spin and twirl

her and make her do the same with me. She would lose interest and

go do something else. If I couldn't physically get to her, I would

do something to interrupt her concentration - throw a dishtowel over

her head, stomp my feet, whatever to get her attention and redirect.

If it was jumping - I would say " you want to jump? get on the little

trampoline " and move her to it for jumping. Now, it is musical toys

and her kindergarten Barbie computer. She will hit the same button

100 times...I tell her she has to use it properly, or no batteries.

She will comply. If she doesn't, she has to sit with Mommy and

press the buttons like a big girl

..

When kids get excited and flap their hands, redirect to clapping,

then fade to " quiet hands " . Verbal stims are harder - we use " quiet

mouth " or " use your words " . When all else fails, I tickle her until

she quits verbal stimming. One time I even flicked water from my

wet hands in her face to get her attention. Believe me, she quit

verbally stimming and told me " go away mama, I'm mad " !

I wanted her to look as " normal " as possible and knew if she was

allowed to spin, stare at lights or whatever, other kids would

notice. If it is something like twirling her hair, I leave it

alone. The longer it is allowed to go on, the harder it will be to

break the habit.

Good luck I hope this helps!

Stephanee

>

>

> Vicki,

>

> If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

> how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

> building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

> cure to autism!

>

> There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

> 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>

> Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

> believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

> where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

> our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

> away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

> become insignificant to him.

>

> The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

> world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> already addicted!

>

> I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

> came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

> knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

> do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

> without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

> not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

>

>

> Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

> definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

>

> Janice

>

>

> #1

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

> are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

> The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

> child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

> " Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

> stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

> Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

> visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

> while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

> indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

> is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

> children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

> interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

>

>

> #2

>

> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

> from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

> lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

> computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

> Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

> problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

> would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

> he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

> toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

> basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

> work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

> until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

> was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

> else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

> the harder it is to make them stop.

>

> My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

> watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

> animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

> used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

> wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>

> My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

> fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

> stim " .

>

> I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

> was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

> was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

> no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

>

> It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

> very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

> see your child for the first time. They are a completely

> different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>

> #3

>

> Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

> it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

> are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

> to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

> happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

> works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

> noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

> intensity.

>

>

> #4

> There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

> it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

> not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

> processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

> Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

> you are going to ask a question right after you make a

> statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

> Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

> in a story.

>

> It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

> plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

> it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

> of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

> Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

> stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

> processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

> individual programs.

> __________________

>

> #5

>

> Stimming in general

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------

>

> Please know that this particular post is not a

> recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

> post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

> that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

> importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

>

>

> Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

> become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

> Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

> Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

> first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

> reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

> shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

> off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

> homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

> effective day.

> Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

> let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

>

> I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

> seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

> ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

> spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

> sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

> vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

> language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

> fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

> euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

> time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

> as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

> creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

> know, we can't increase the global processing if the

> stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

> will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

> no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

> his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

> person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

> at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

> have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

> so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

> of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

> have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

> we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> activities that we have designed 24/7.

>

> Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

> child has responded well to program and we have had enough

> progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

> with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

> contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

> child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

> and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

> zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

> him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

> increase his language and processing abilities. The

> wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

> something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

> engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

> not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

> corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

> things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

> concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

> from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

> with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

> to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

> therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

> day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

> bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>

>

> Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

> Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

> be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

> vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

> painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

> without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

> even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

> Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

> frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

> games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

> good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

> on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

> can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

> for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

> her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

> appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

> sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

> well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

> remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

> workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

> up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

> State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

> home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

> got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

> exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

> morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

> rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

> has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

> You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

> been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

> Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

> and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

> But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

> along by this point and on the continuum.

>

>

> Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

> have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

> His independent time is spent looking more and more like

> neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

> deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

> imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

> sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

> the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

> him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

> watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

> remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

> remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

> couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

> had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

> was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

> that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

> just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

> their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

> worked so hard to build will vanish.

>

> Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

> these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

> chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

> through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

> few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

> finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

> her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

> had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

> mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

> requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

> next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

> used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

> Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

> attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

> patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

> with hair.

>

>

> It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

> SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

> take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

> you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

> that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

> advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

> help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

> on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

> suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

> made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

> staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

> what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> normal " category.

>

> Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

> there as fast as possible!

>

> I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

> exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

> children each and every one of them!!!!

>

[Guest guest]

Is he looking at something particular as he runs? Maybe the floor,

or the baseboards, or the back of the couch? My son used to do this

BUT, his head would be sideways and he would be looking out of the

corner of his eyes at something straight (backs of chairs, chair

rail on wall, back of couch, kitchen countertop). If so, yes, this

is a visual stim. I would stop him and have him look at something

else/redirect. Interestingly enough, when I added Vitamin A 10,000

IU/day, this stopped completely on its own. When I backed off the

A, it would appear again.

I would think chasing his sisters would be a good thing, from an

interaction standpoint. Unless, of course, he isn't following them

and looking at them.

Stephanee

>

> Okay, now I have another question after reading all this info. My

son likes to run around the house. Back and forthusually laughing

or just making sounds. Is this stimming? He will also run with his

sisters when they are running around to try and play with them. But

he will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be another

way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

>

> Vicki,

>

> If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

> how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

> building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

> cure to autism!

>

> There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

> 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>

> Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

> believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

> where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

> our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

> away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

> become insignificant to him.

>

> The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

> world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> already addicted!

>

> I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

> came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

> knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

> do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

> without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

> not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

>

> Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

> definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

>

> Janice

>

> #1

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

> are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

> The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

> child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

> " Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

> stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

> Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

> visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

> while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

> indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

> is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

> children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

> interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

>

> #2

>

> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

> from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

> lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

> computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

> Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

> problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

> would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

> he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

> toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

> basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

> work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

> until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

> was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

> else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

> the harder it is to make them stop.

>

> My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

> watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

> animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

> used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

> wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>

> My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

> fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

> stim " .

>

> I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

> was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

> was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

> no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

>

> It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

> very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

> see your child for the first time. They are a completely

> different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>

> #3

>

> Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

> it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

> are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

> to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

> happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

> works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

> noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

> intensity.

>

> #4

> There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

> it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

> not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

> processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

> Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

> you are going to ask a question right after you make a

> statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

> Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

> in a story.

>

> It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

> plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

> it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

> of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

> Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

> stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

> processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

> individual programs.

> __________________

>

> #5

>

> Stimming in general

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> Please know that this particular post is not a

> recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

> post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

> that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

> importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

>

> Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

> become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

> Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

> Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

> first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

> reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

> shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

> off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

> homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

> effective day.

> Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

> let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

>

> I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

> seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

> ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

> spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

> sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

> vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

> language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

> fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

> euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

> time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

> as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

> creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

> know, we can't increase the global processing if the

> stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

> will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

> no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

> his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

> person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

> at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

> have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

> so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

> of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

> have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

> we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> activities that we have designed 24/7.

>

> Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

> child has responded well to program and we have had enough

> progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

> with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

> contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

> child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

> and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

> zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

> him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

> increase his language and processing abilities. The

> wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

> something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

> engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

> not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

> corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

> things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

> concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

> from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

> with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

> to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

> therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

> day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

> bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>

> Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

> Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

> be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

> vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

> painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

> without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

> even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

> Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

> frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

> games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

> good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

> on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

> can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

> for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

> her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

> appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

> sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

> well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

> remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

> workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

> up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

> State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

> home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

> got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

> exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

> morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

> rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

> has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

> You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

> been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

> Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

> and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

> But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

> along by this point and on the continuum.

>

> Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

> have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

> His independent time is spent looking more and more like

> neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

> deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

> imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

> sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

> the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

> him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

> watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

> remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

> remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

> couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

> had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

> was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

> that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

> just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

> their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

> worked so hard to build will vanish.

>

> Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

> these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

> chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

> through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

> few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

> finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

> her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

> had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

> mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

> requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

> next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

> used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

> Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

> attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

> patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

> with hair.

>

> It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

> SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

> take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

> you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

> that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

> advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

> help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

> on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

> suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

> made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

> staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

> what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> normal " category.

>

> Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

> there as fast as possible!

>

> I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

> exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

> children each and every one of them!!!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, If you've not had an OT evaluate for sensory integration

dysfunction, you may want to. A couple of good books on the subject

are The Out of Sync Child and Sensational Kids.

My child had proprioceptive and vestibular dysfunction due to Vitamin

E deficiency (I say had because the symptoms are gone as long he is

supplemented with Vit E). His sensory-seeking behaviors included:

running constantly, climbing and jumping from the highest points he

could get to before I could stop him, hitting his hand against his

leg, bumping his face into pillows, turning his head and bumping his

ear into the pillow, " couch diving " (he would stand on the arm of the

couch and just free-fall belly flop on the the couch, jumping on the

couch and beds. At night he couldn't settle himself to sleep as he

had to kick his legs and push his feet against me or the bedrails. It

would take him over an hour to go to sleep even after an exhaustive

day of seeking. This is what he did all day long. He didn't play

with toys much, just sensory seeking. We could barely take him

anywhere because he always had to dart off and run the length of the

store. He did not flap his hands, spin, rock, or some of the other

more recognized " stims " , but it was stimming none the less. OT

helped (brushing and swinging protocols), but it just managed the

symptoms some. Vitamin E literally made them vanish over night and

now we have a happy, playful child who isn't bothered by the sensory

issues.

I'm not suggesting that every child with vestibular and

proprioceptive dysfunction is suffering from a Vitamin E deficiency,

but that was what was going on with my boy and I thank God every

night for Dr. and her willingness to post her son's

story.

>

> Okay, now I have another question after reading all this info. My

son likes to run around the house. Back and forthusually laughing or

just making sounds. Is this stimming? He will also run with his

sisters when they are running around to try and play with them. But

he will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be another

way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

>

> Vicki,

>

> If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

> how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

> building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

> cure to autism!

>

> There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

> 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>

> Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

> believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

> where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

> our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

> away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

> become insignificant to him.

>

> The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

> world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> already addicted!

>

> I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

> came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

> knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

> do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

> without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

> not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

>

> Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

> definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

>

> Janice

>

> #1

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

> are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

> The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

> child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

> " Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

> stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

> Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

> visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

> while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

> indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

> is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

> children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

> interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

>

> #2

>

> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

> from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

> lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

> computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

> Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

> problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

> would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

> he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

> toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

> basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

> work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

> until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

> was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

> else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

> the harder it is to make them stop.

>

> My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

> watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

> animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

> used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

> wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>

> My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

> fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

> stim " .

>

> I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

> was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

> was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

> no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

>

> It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

> very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

> see your child for the first time. They are a completely

> different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>

> #3

>

> Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

> it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

> are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

> to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

> happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

> works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

> noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

> intensity.

>

> #4

> There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

> it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

> not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

> processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

> Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

> you are going to ask a question right after you make a

> statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

> Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

> in a story.

>

> It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

> plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

> it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

> of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

> Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

> stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

> processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

> individual programs.

> __________________

>

> #5

>

> Stimming in general

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> Please know that this particular post is not a

> recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

> post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

> that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

> importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

>

> Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

> become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

> Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

> Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

> first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

> reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

> shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

> off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

> homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

> effective day.

> Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

> let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

>

> I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

> seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

> ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

> spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

> sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

> vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

> language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

> fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

> euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

> time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

> as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

> creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

> know, we can't increase the global processing if the

> stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

> will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

> no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

> his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

> person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

> at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

> have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

> so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

> of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

> have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

> we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> activities that we have designed 24/7.

>

> Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

> child has responded well to program and we have had enough

> progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

> with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

> contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

> child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

> and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

> zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

> him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

> increase his language and processing abilities. The

> wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

> something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

> engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

> not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

> corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

> things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

> concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

> from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

> with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

> to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

> therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

> day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

> bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>

> Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

> Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

> be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

> vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

> painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

> without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

> even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

> Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

> frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

> games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

> good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

> on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

> can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

> for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

> her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

> appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

> sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

> well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

> remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

> workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

> up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

> State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

> home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

> got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

> exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

> morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

> rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

> has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

> You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

> been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

> Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

> and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

> But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

> along by this point and on the continuum.

>

> Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

> have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

> His independent time is spent looking more and more like

> neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

> deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

> imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

> sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

> the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

> him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

> watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

> remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

> remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

> couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

> had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

> was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

> that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

> just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

> their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

> worked so hard to build will vanish.

>

> Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

> these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

> chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

> through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

> few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

> finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

> her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

> had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

> mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

> requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

> next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

> used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

> Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

> attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

> patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

> with hair.

>

> It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

> SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

> take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

> you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

> that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

> advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

> help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

> on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

> suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

> made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

> staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

> what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> normal " category.

>

> Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

> there as fast as possible!

>

> I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

> exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

> children each and every one of them!!!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Some things you just have to leave well enough alone. My kid does that

and I have questioned it but his other quirks are leaving and that one

stays. It could be stimming or he could be having fun. It is in the eye

of the beholder.

klbushey@... wrote:

>Okay, now I have another question after reading all this info. My son likes to

run around the house. Back and forthusually laughing or just making sounds. Is

this stimming? He will also run with his sisters when they are running around

to try and play with them. But he will do this on his own. Now I am afraid

this could be another way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

>-------------- Original message --------------

>From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

>

>Vicki,

>

>If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

>how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

>building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

>cure to autism!

>

>There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

>where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

>unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

>'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>

>Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

>believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

>where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

>our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

>away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

>become insignificant to him.

>

>The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

>world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

>addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

>take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

>pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

>already addicted!

>

>I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

>behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

>what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

>pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

>came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

>knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

>do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

>without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

>not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

>

>Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

>including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

>definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

>

>Janice

>

>#1

>

>Hi Everyone,

>

>Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

>repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

>sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

>are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

>The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

>child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

> " Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

>stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

>Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

>visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

>while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

>indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

>is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

>children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

>interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

>

>#2

>

> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

>from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

>lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

>computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

>Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

>problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

>would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

>he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

>toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

>basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

>work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

>until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

>was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

>important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

>else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

>the harder it is to make them stop.

>

>My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

>rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

>watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

>animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

>used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

>wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>

>My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

>sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

>fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

>stim " .

>

>I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

>was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

>was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

>no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

>

>It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

>very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

>see your child for the first time. They are a completely

>different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>

>#3

>

>Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

>it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

>are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

>to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

>happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

>works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

>noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

>intensity.

>

>#4

>There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

>it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

>not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

>processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

>Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

>you are going to ask a question right after you make a

>statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

>Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

>in a story.

>

>It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

>plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

>it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

>of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

>Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

>stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

>processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

>individual programs.

>__________________

>

>#5

>

>Stimming in general

>

>----------------------------------------------------------

>

>Please know that this particular post is not a

>recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

>post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

>that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

>importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

>

>Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

>which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

>become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

>Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

>Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

>first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

>reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

>shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

>off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

>homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

>effective day.

>Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

>let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

>

>I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

>seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

>ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

>spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

>sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

>vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

>language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

>fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

>euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

>understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

>time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

>as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

>creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

>know, we can't increase the global processing if the

>stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

>will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

>no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

>his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

>person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

>at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

>have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

>so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

>of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

>darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

>lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

>have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

>we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

>activities that we have designed 24/7.

>

>Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

>child has responded well to program and we have had enough

>progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

>with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

>contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

>child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

>and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

>zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

>him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

>increase his language and processing abilities. The

>wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

>something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

>engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

>not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

>corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

>things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

>concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

>from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

>with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

>to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

>therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

>day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

>bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>

>Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

>Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

>be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

>vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

>painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

>without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

>even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

>Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

>frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

>games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

>good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

>on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

>can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

>for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

>her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

>of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

>redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

>appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

>sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

>well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

>remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

>workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

>up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

>State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

>home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

>got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

>exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

>morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

>rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

>has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

>You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

>been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

>Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

>and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

>But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

>along by this point and on the continuum.

>

>Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

>have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

>His independent time is spent looking more and more like

>neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

>conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

>deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

>imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

>sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

>the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

>him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

>watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

>remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

>remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

>couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

>had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

>was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

>that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

>just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

>message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

>their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

>worked so hard to build will vanish.

>

>Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

>these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

>chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

>through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

>few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

>finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

>her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

>had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

>mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

>requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

>next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

>this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

>dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

>that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

>used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

>Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

>attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

>patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

>with hair.

>

>It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

>SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

>children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

>take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

>you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

>that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

>advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

>help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

>on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

>suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

>made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

>staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

>what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

>normal " category.

>

>Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

>overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

>there as fast as possible!

>

>I hope this helps you all to understand that a

>recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

>exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

>children each and every one of them!!!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have done that hangnail thing my whole life and simply could not stop.

It was embarrassing. Turns out milk was my poison and not it stopped. I

am not saying stopping milk stops stimming. What I am saying is getting

to the root of any metabolic imabalances, dietary, environmental, etc.

could go a long way toward helping these kids.

Heidi wrote:

>

>

>

>>Personally, I think it is their form of expression. I think if we

>>

>>

>get

>

>

>>the toxins out they will likely revert to more typical forms of

>>communication. Obviously if it is self-harming we have to redirect.

>>

>>

>

>with Gage he spinned things, cars, toys, himself, he also used to

>pick at things, like a hang nail until it bled. so that was easily

>fixable by keeping his hands manicured. a lot of stimming can be

>reduced if not completely with therapy, even home therapy, it's

>called a sensory diet you use various therapudic excersizes,

>brushing, heavy lifting, deep compressions, propreceptive work,

>brushing techniques, if the stimming is hurtful see a therapist.

>In seeking sensory stimulation, people tend to go to the sites where

>there are many nerve endings. Hands, feet, mouth and the scalp are

>common places. Many different behaviors could be used to perform

>this balancing function externally. Hair pulling, skin picking, nail

>biting, cheek biting, nose picking, *grin* are only a few of many

>that I have seen. While any or all humans may engage in these

>behaviors sometimes, the difference with SPD kids and adults, (whose

>behaviors have become extreme versus those who are doing them on

>occasion) are that they have considerable difficulty regulating

>their internal levels of stimulation, and are utilizing these

>methods for self-stimulation or self-soothing.

>

>This behavior provides an SPD person with tactile Stimulation, by

>touching, stroking, tugging and pulling hair. Visual stimulation

>occurs when watching or observing hair during or after pulling, and

>oral stimulation by chewing or sliding through teeth.

>

>Why this could be helpful to an internal state of regulation to

>satisfy both, or either, under- and over- stimulation comes with the

>understanding that each type of stimulation is the polar opposite of

>the other on a continuum of sensory stimulation levels. It can be

>either soothing... or stimulating, and bring about changes and more

>balance to internal regulation.

>

>What to do? Is it becoming too much, destructive even? If this

>person has already been diagnosed as an SPD child or adult, I would

>recommend speaking to their therapist. Ask him/her about better ways

>to learn to self-regulate. Find other, less destructive sources of

>stimulation.

>

>heidi

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is very interesting!! How much Vitamin E did you supplement with? My boys

do the exact same thing you described with your son. Very, very sensory

seeking. They have no attention span to sit and properly play with toys. They

are ALWAYS on the go! And it is hard for them to settle down for sleep too. I

don't think they are getting E in any of their supplements.

They have been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder. EVERYTHING is

sensory for them.

I would love if something as simple as adding adequate amounts of Vit E would

help with this.

Dana

and Garrett, 3 years old as of Mar 24

SCD One Year!!!!!

Celiac, ASD, Speech and Motor Apraxia, sensory processing disorder

---------------------------------

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

[Guest guest]

Please be careful and make sure you have guidance wit E...you could

stroke a kid out. Please consider asking the dr. for direct vitamin

intake labs from your dr (and be willing to pay for them) and then at

least you'd know how much he was already getting and have a starting point.

dana pope wrote:

>This is very interesting!! How much Vitamin E did you supplement with? My

boys do the exact same thing you described with your son. Very, very sensory

seeking. They have no attention span to sit and properly play with toys. They

are ALWAYS on the go! And it is hard for them to settle down for sleep too. I

don't think they are getting E in any of their supplements.

>

> They have been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder. EVERYTHING is

sensory for them.

>

> I would love if something as simple as adding adequate amounts of Vit E would

help with this.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Dana

> and Garrett, 3 years old as of Mar 24

>SCD One Year!!!!!

>Celiac, ASD, Speech and Motor Apraxia, sensory processing disorder

>

>---------------------------------

>Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I have heard that vitamin protocols can help with

stimming.

The thing is... our children have a hard time eliminating

toxins and a hard time keeping their nutritional levels up.

This has simply got to be all connected with their behaviour

and play an important factor.

Sensory issues are both environmental and genetic in cause

which is why each child is soooo different. This mucks up

the ability to treat effectively.

If you think it is a stim, call out to your child and have

him do something for you. Does he readily respond or does

he ignore you? Somewhere in this you've got to trust that

'mommy instinct' which is so wise and wonderful.

Janice

[ ] Re: Stimming---how do you

help them stop this?

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:31:18 -0000

> , If you've not had an OT evaluate for sensory

> integration dysfunction, you may want to. A couple of

> good books on the subject are The Out of Sync Child and

> Sensational Kids.

>

> My child had proprioceptive and vestibular dysfunction due

> to Vitamin E deficiency (I say had because the symptoms

> are gone as long he is supplemented with Vit E). His

> sensory-seeking behaviors included: running constantly,

> climbing and jumping from the highest points he could get

> to before I could stop him, hitting his hand against his

> leg, bumping his face into pillows, turning his head and

> bumping his ear into the pillow, " couch diving " (he would

> stand on the arm of the couch and just free-fall belly

> flop on the the couch, jumping on the couch and beds. At

> night he couldn't settle himself to sleep as he had to

> kick his legs and push his feet against me or the

> bedrails. It would take him over an hour to go to sleep

> even after an exhaustive day of seeking. This is what he

> did all day long. He didn't play with toys much, just

> sensory seeking. We could barely take him anywhere

> because he always had to dart off and run the length of

> the store. He did not flap his hands, spin, rock, or

> some of the other more recognized " stims " , but it was

> stimming none the less. OT helped (brushing and swinging

> protocols), but it just managed the symptoms some.

> Vitamin E literally made them vanish over night and now

> we have a happy, playful child who isn't bothered by the

> sensory issues.

>

> I'm not suggesting that every child with vestibular and

> proprioceptive dysfunction is suffering from a Vitamin E

> deficiency, but that was what was going on with my boy

> and I thank God every night for Dr. and

> her willingness to post her son's story.

>

> >

> > Okay, now I have another question after reading all this

> info. My son likes to run around the house. Back and

> forthusually laughing or just making sounds. Is this

> stimming? He will also run with his sisters when they

> are running around to try and play with them. But he

> will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be

> another way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------- Original message --------------

> > From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

> >

> > Vicki,

> >

> > If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken

> > and how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very

> > rich woman building my house next to Bill Gates for I

> > would have the cure to autism!

> >

> > There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> > where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> > unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the

> > parents 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

> >

> > Stimming is what takes our children away from us and

> > what I believe in some ways differentiates disorders

> > like dyspraxia where the child is still social and still

> > 'connected' with our world from severe autism where a

> > child has become locked away in a world of 'self

> > stimulation' thus our world has become insignificant to

> > him.

> > The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving

> > our world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> > addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> > take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> > pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> > already addicted!

> >

> > I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> > behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> > what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> > pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy

> > behaviours came from attending classes with kids who

> > were doing it. I knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and

> > just tell him not to do it and why it was bad for him.

> > Sometimes he would do it without thinking and I would

> > intervene. In his case, it was not very serious because

> > he never got 'lost' in that world.

> > Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> > including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you

> > a definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming

> > 'is'!

> > Janice

> >

> > #1

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> > repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> > sensory channel that is not being processed correctly.

> > There are quite a few different types of behavior that

> > are stims. The thing that they have in common is that

> > they disrupt the child's normal interaction with his or

> > her environment. " Normal " children and some adults

> > engage in small amounts of stimmy behaviors when tired,

> > bored or stressed sometimes. Whether a child is dangling

> > shoestrings or sitting dazed visualizing an entire Harry

> > Potter movie or Barney video, while they are involved in

> > the stim, they are quite indifferent to what is going on

> > around them.Beyond this, it is hard to generalize except

> > to say that stimming takes our children away from us,

> > stops learning, and hurts social interaction. It is

> > often addictive behavior. "

> > #2

> >

> > " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son,

> > , from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house

> > and we lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and

> > played computer games this way. We did tons of

> > pleoptics. Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with

> > me. I had no problem taking it out in public and if

> > would stim, I would use it. I didn't let him out

> > of my sight. Every time he would stim, I would redirect

> > him. If he was stimming with toys, I would show him how

> > to play right with them. You basically have to stay on

> > your child 24/7 and it is hard work. My husband leaves

> > the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back until 7:00 PM so it

> > was up to me. However, when my husband was home, he

> > wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in

> > somebody else's care, they can't let them stim. The more

> > they stim, the harder it is to make them stop.

> >

> > My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> > rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching

> > it, watching trains and cars go round and round, lining

> > up stuff animals and rolling them down the couch one by

> > one. He also used to like to chase his shadow, look at

> > objects on the wall and stare at ceiling fans.

> >

> > My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> > sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the

> > ceiling fan, he will look right at me, shake his head

> > and say " no stim " .

> >

> > I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten.

> > I was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the

> > cat was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me

> > " kitty no stim " . I guess we got the message across

> > pretty good!!!

> > It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it

> > was very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming

> > stops, you see your child for the first time. They are a

> > completely different child and it is WONDERFUL.

> >

> > #3

> >

> > Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot

> > when it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and

> > toys that are not seen very often and watch the stimming

> > move closer to being exploring. TV in darkened room can

> > work. If you happen to have a slide projector and some

> > old slides, that works in a darkened room. Toys that

> > play music, make animal noises, light up, talk, sing are

> > all good as they have added intensity.

> >

> > #4

> > There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it!

> > Sometimes it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due

> > to the child not being able to or not wanting to really

> > engage in processing what you are talking about when you

> > are reading. Sometimes the children shut down when they

> > anticipate that you are going to ask a question right

> > after you make a statement. Some kids don't get it

> > because they are stimming. Some don't get it because

> > they can't relate to some language in a story.

> >

> > It would be specific to your child. I know that there

> > are plenty of parents out there that have kids that

> > didn't get it but now do. How we changed that may be

> > different for many of the children. It's not a one size

> > fits all situation. Processing is certainly a key issue,

> > working memory, stopping stimming behavior, increasing

> > vocabulary, tonal processing....the list is long. That's

> > why the programs are individual programs.

> > __________________

> >

> > #5

> >

> > Stimming in general

> >

> >

> >

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> > Please know that this particular post is not a

> > recommendation for a specific child, but rather,

> > hopefully a post that will help clear up some confusion.

> > The one thing that I have appreciated about NACD from

> > the beginning is the importance of seeing the child, not

> > diagnosis.

> > Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> > which it creates a problem is the degree where we start

> > to become concerned. Let me give you an example of a

> > stim. Early in the morning, as my first cup of

> > Starbucks's French Roast finishes dripping into the cup

> > and I take that very first sip, I stim. That first sip

> > creates a euphoric reaction that over the years has

> > become addictive. Then shortly after, I fix breakfast

> > for the kids, I either head off to the office for evals,

> > or to the couch to begin the homeschool day. That stim

> > did not stop me from having an effective day.

> > Considering that we are all on a continuum of

> > development, let's look at the other end of the

> > spectrum.

> > I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I

> > have seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he

> > is already ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in

> > the dark, he has spent the last several hours stimming

> > on his black and white sheets. He gets up out of bed and

> > cruises through the house, vocalizing specific

> > frequencies that have no meaning in language, watching

> > as his world of baseboards and ceiling fans do their

> > trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of euphoric

> > emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because,

> > over time, his global processing did not advance and so

> > the world as we know it has no meaning to him. His world

> > is all about creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is,

> > as some of you know, we can't increase the global

> > processing if the stimming prevails, and until we get

> > the processing up, he will choose, or even fight, to

> > stim. This is the child with no language, the child who

> > does not feel pain if he bangs his head on the ground.

> > This is the child who doesn't see a person as anyone

> > that they want to interact with. After all, at this

> > place in the continuum, who needs people when you have

> > baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme so

> > extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him

> > out of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> > darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> > lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos

> we have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child

> > that we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> > activities that we have designed 24/7.

> >

> > Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That

> > same child has responded well to program and we have had

> > enough progress to actually have light in the house. He

> > sees Mom with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet

> > and hold contact for a few seconds throughout the day.

> > This is the child that has now learned to say " Mama "

> > , " Movies " , " Eat " , and, of course, " No. " This is still a

> > kid in the danger zone. We need as many people as we can

> > get interacting with him. We have a long list of

> > activities that we can do to increase his language and

> > processing abilities. The wonderful thing is, he wants

> > it now. See, people do have something to offer and as

> > long as they offer it, he will engage in this world. The

> > hard thing is, if engagement is not being offered, there

> > are always the baseboards and corners of the room and

> > doors that open and shut. Those things still seem to do

> > nicely as far as this child is concerned, and they still

> > have the ability to steel him away from us. The nice

> > thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit with her arms

> > wrapped around him in a dark room to get him to look at

> > a video. So we USE the TV as our standby therapist. Is

> > he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7 day kiddo,

> > but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a bubble

> > bath as long as there is a decent video running.

> > Let's take some more steps forward and look at what

> > happens. Sensory channels are becoming more normalized.

> > While he may be easily distracted by movement in the

> > peripheral field of vision, he does not live there.

> > Noises are no longer painful, so the family can actually

> > go to a restaurant without too much fear. He is now

> > speaking in phrases. or even sentences, and will gladly

> > communicate what he wants. Processing is up some more so

> > the meltdowns are less frequent. Hopefully by now, there

> > are a few toys or computer games that he can do and

> > actually enjoy. If we have done a good job of rotating

> > out videos so that he is not stuck only on a specific

> > Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom can actually

> > have a conversation on the phone with Grandma for a good

> > chunk of time without fearing that she will loose her

> > son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> > of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> > redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages

> of appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time

> > spent sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short

> > time, oh well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can

> > vividly remember once going away for a few days to

> > conduct a workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew

> > something was up even before I saw him. My oldest son

> > was playing in a State Championship game that Sunday so

> > instead of going home, I left Houston and went straight

> > to the ballpark. As I got out of my car, I saw another

> > mother on the team. Her exact words were " What is wrong

> > with Evan? I saw him this morning and he didn't even

> > speak. He has sat in the chair rocking his head back and

> > forth through the whole game and has not said word. This

> > is so not like him. Is he sick? " You can imagine the

> > first words I spoke to hubby who had been left in charge

> > for the week. It took me weeks to get Evan's vision back

> > to where it had been the day that I left, and for days

> > it was like working with a hung over drunk. But, I did

> > get him back. This is because he was far enough along by

> > this point and on the continuum.

> > Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well.

> > We have a child whose processing is up. His language is

> > fluent. His independent time is spent looking more and

> > more like neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> > conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child

> > still deals with a little excess emotionality, or can

> > get lost in imaginary play, so we carefully watch his

> > balance. We make sure he gets enough non-fiction input

> > and if we see alone in the back yard with imaginary

> > swords for too long, we call him in to take out the

> > trash. This is a child we still watch, but this is also

> > a Mom that we sometimes have to remind her to go take

> > that Bubble Bath. You see, she remembers the days that

> > he banged his head on the floor and couldn't tell her

> > that he was in pain because his ear drum had ruptured.

> > She remembers the days that his best friend was a string

> > that he carried around. She remembers the days that it

> > took every minute of her day jumping through hoops; just

> > to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to

> > let their children stim. She lives in fear that what she

> > has worked so hard to build will vanish.

> >

> > Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go

> > through these steps. She was a precious little gal with

> > an extra chromosome who also had severe sensory

> > problems. We had gone through the steps above on that

> > continuum of development. A few years had gone by since

> > we had seen the head shaking , finger dancing , string

> > twirling days. On the phone one day her mother had been

> > telling me a great unit study that she had been doing

> > with the American Girl series. Since I am the mother of

> > 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I requested that

> > she bring her wonderful little dolls to the next

> > evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> > this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> > dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her

> > daughter used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth

> > and shake Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that

> > unless she was attempting to develop a deep compassion

> > towards chemo patients, it would fine to let the little

> > girl have dolls with hair.

> >

> > It is important to notice in this post that I refer to

> > the SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> > children. The point that I want to make, is that we want

> > to take a child from where they are and progress

> > forwards. If you are the mother of the child starting

> > from point 1 on that line, you have a hard job,. But ,

> > your child can advance to the next step. We will do all

> > that we know to help you take each and every step. If

> > you are farther along on that continuum, do not be

> > confused when you see various suggestions made to other

> > parents, or even the ones that we made to you

> > previously. Stay in touch with your support staff.

> > Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if what

> > you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> > normal " category.

> > Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> > overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you

> > get there as fast as possible!

> >

> > I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> > recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not

> > be exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what

> > wonderful children each and every one of them!!!!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This is a long story beginning in Oct 2006. This group of new folks

are no longer in the midst of the Vitamin E discussion that we were

in just a few short months ago and I would encourage all of you to go

back and look in the archives beginning with post #50746 where

Geng posted an email from our resident angel Dr. . And

then you should do a search with 's name so you can read

everything she has ever posted. I'll try to summarize our story here,

but if you do a search on " fkewatson " you'll see all my posts and it

has a lot of information about our story.

My son has been a sensory seeker his whole life and if I had known

what to look for I could have easily dx him with apraxia and SPD much

earlier than age 3.5 which is when we went to see Dr. Agin and she dx

him with a severe case of both.

We actually did see an OT around his 3rd birthday and for the next 6

months we did brushing, joint compressions and a swinging protocol

that included spinning. Like I said in previous post, it helped

manage things, but didn't eliminate. I joined this group sometime in

the fall of 2006 not long at all after had told this group

what she had found in Vitamin E and how it had helped her son. I was

scared at first, but I gave him 200IUs of d-alpha tocopherol and

200mg d-gamma Oct 17, 2006 and a few hours later all of the seeking

stopped. It did start back up again a few hours after that, but each

time I gave it to him we would have improvement, followed by

regression. So after a month on that dose, I doubled it to

400IUs/400mg given in 2 equal doses each day. He stopped

regressing. Over the months I kept increasing and just when I

thought things couldn't get better - they did with each increase.

This has happened for other families as well and wish it could happen

for everyone, but sadly it doesn't. All I can say is I'm thankful I

tried it.

There is no set dosage for any one child. This is all anecdotal,

uncharted waters. There is LOTS of info in the archives and while I

just hate to just send people on a wild goose chase to find it, there

isn't enough time in the world for me pull it all together. The best

thing you can do is just use the search engine and look at the

stories. I know you'll find them extremely interesting.

>

> This is very interesting!! How much Vitamin E did you supplement

with? My boys do the exact same thing you described with your son.

Very, very sensory seeking. They have no attention span to sit and

properly play with toys. They are ALWAYS on the go! And it is hard

for them to settle down for sleep too. I don't think they are

getting E in any of their supplements.

>

> They have been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder.

EVERYTHING is sensory for them.

>

> I would love if something as simple as adding adequate amounts of

Vit E would help with this.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dana

> and Garrett, 3 years old as of Mar 24

> SCD One Year!!!!!

> Celiac, ASD, Speech and Motor Apraxia, sensory processing disorder

>

> ---------------------------------

> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on

TV.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Stephanee

Your post is even better! Tells moms what to do from a real

perspective. My knowledge of dealing with stimming is

amateur at best and deals with theory. You are a PRO!

Janice

Original Message Follows -----

From: " bscmommy " <stephanee_a@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Stimming---how do you

help them stop this?

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:41:38 -0000

> Wow! Great info on stimms. In my house, stimming is a

> " no-no " as well. We were taught to redirect the stim to

> something appropriate and to have our daughter look as

> " typical " as other kids. She liked to spin in circles -

> when I would see her do it - if I could get to her I

> would grab her hands and say " let's dance! " and spin and

> twirl her and make her do the same with me. She would

> lose interest and go do something else. If I couldn't

> physically get to her, I would do something to interrupt

> her concentration - throw a dishtowel over her head,

> stomp my feet, whatever to get her attention and redirect.

> If it was jumping - I would say " you want to jump? get on

> the little trampoline " and move her to it for jumping.

> Now, it is musical toys and her kindergarten Barbie

> computer. She will hit the same button 100 times...I

> tell her she has to use it properly, or no batteries.

> She will comply. If she doesn't, she has to sit with

> Mommy and press the buttons like a big girl

>

> When kids get excited and flap their hands, redirect to

> clapping, then fade to " quiet hands " . Verbal stims are

> harder - we use " quiet mouth " or " use your words " . When

> all else fails, I tickle her until she quits verbal

> stimming. One time I even flicked water from my wet

> hands in her face to get her attention. Believe me, she

> quit verbally stimming and told me " go away mama, I'm

> mad " !

>

> I wanted her to look as " normal " as possible and knew if

> she was allowed to spin, stare at lights or whatever,

> other kids would notice. If it is something like

> twirling her hair, I leave it alone. The longer it is

> allowed to go on, the harder it will be to break the

> habit. Good luck I hope this helps!

> Stephanee

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Vicki,

> >

> > If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken

> > and how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very

> > rich woman building my house next to Bill Gates for I

> > would have the cure to autism!

> >

> > There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> > where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> > unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the

> > parents 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

> >

> > Stimming is what takes our children away from us and

> > what I believe in some ways differentiates disorders

> > like dyspraxia where the child is still social and still

> > 'connected' with our world from severe autism where a

> > child has become locked away in a world of 'self

> > stimulation' thus our world has become insignificant to

> > him.

> > The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving

> > our world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> > addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> > take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> > pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> > already addicted!

> >

> > I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> > behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> > what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> > pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy

> > behaviours came from attending classes with kids who

> > were doing it. I knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and

> > just tell him not to do it and why it was bad for him.

> > Sometimes he would do it without thinking and I would

> > intervene. In his case, it was not very serious because

> > he never got 'lost' in that world.

> >

> > Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> > including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you

> > a definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming

> > 'is'!

> > Janice

> >

> >

> > #1

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> > repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> > sensory channel that is not being processed correctly.

> > There are quite a few different types of behavior that

> > are stims. The thing that they have in common is that

> > they disrupt the child's normal interaction with his or

> > her environment. " Normal " children and some adults

> > engage in small amounts of stimmy behaviors when tired,

> > bored or stressed sometimes. Whether a child is dangling

> > shoestrings or sitting dazed visualizing an entire Harry

> > Potter movie or Barney video, while they are involved in

> > the stim, they are quite indifferent to what is going on

> > around them.Beyond this, it is hard to generalize except

> > to say that stimming takes our children away from us,

> > stops learning, and hurts social interaction. It is

> > often addictive behavior. "

> >

> > #2

> >

> > " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son,

> > , from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house

> > and we lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and

> > played computer games this way. We did tons of

> > pleoptics. Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with

> > me. I had no problem taking it out in public and if

> > would stim, I would use it. I didn't let him out

> > of my sight. Every time he would stim, I would redirect

> > him. If he was stimming with toys, I would show him how

> > to play right with them. You basically have to stay on

> > your child 24/7 and it is hard work. My husband leaves

> > the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back until 7:00 PM so it

> > was up to me. However, when my husband was home, he

> > wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in

> > somebody else's care, they can't let them stim. The more

> > they stim, the harder it is to make them stop.

> >

> > My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> > rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching

> > it, watching trains and cars go round and round, lining

> > up stuff animals and rolling them down the couch one by

> > one. He also used to like to chase his shadow, look at

> > objects on the wall and stare at ceiling fans.

> >

> > My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> > sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the

> > ceiling fan, he will look right at me, shake his head

> > and say " no stim " .

> >

> > I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten.

> > I was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the

> > cat was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me

> > " kitty no stim " . I guess we got the message across

> > pretty good!!!

> > It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it

> > was very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming

> > stops, you see your child for the first time. They are a

> > completely different child and it is WONDERFUL.

> >

> > #3

> >

> > Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot

> > when it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and

> > toys that are not seen very often and watch the stimming

> > move closer to being exploring. TV in darkened room can

> > work. If you happen to have a slide projector and some

> > old slides, that works in a darkened room. Toys that

> > play music, make animal noises, light up, talk, sing are

> > all good as they have added intensity.

> >

> >

> > #4

> > There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it!

> > Sometimes it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due

> > to the child not being able to or not wanting to really

> > engage in processing what you are talking about when you

> > are reading. Sometimes the children shut down when they

> > anticipate that you are going to ask a question right

> > after you make a statement. Some kids don't get it

> > because they are stimming. Some don't get it because

> > they can't relate to some language in a story.

> >

> > It would be specific to your child. I know that there

> > are plenty of parents out there that have kids that

> > didn't get it but now do. How we changed that may be

> > different for many of the children. It's not a one size

> > fits all situation. Processing is certainly a key issue,

> > working memory, stopping stimming behavior, increasing

> > vocabulary, tonal processing....the list is long. That's

> > why the programs are individual programs.

> > __________________

> >

> > #5

> >

> > Stimming in general

> >

> >

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> --------- -------------

> >

> > Please know that this particular post is not a

> > recommendation for a specific child, but rather,

> > hopefully a post that will help clear up some confusion.

> > The one thing that I have appreciated about NACD from

> > the beginning is the importance of seeing the child, not

> > diagnosis.

> >

> > Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> > which it creates a problem is the degree where we start

> > to become concerned. Let me give you an example of a

> > stim. Early in the morning, as my first cup of

> > Starbucks's French Roast finishes dripping into the cup

> > and I take that very first sip, I stim. That first sip

> > creates a euphoric reaction that over the years has

> > become addictive. Then shortly after, I fix breakfast

> > for the kids, I either head off to the office for evals,

> > or to the couch to begin the homeschool day. That stim

> > did not stop me from having an effective day.

> > Considering that we are all on a continuum of

> > development, let's look at the other end of the

> > spectrum.

> > I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I

> > have seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he

> > is already ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in

> > the dark, he has spent the last several hours stimming

> > on his black and white sheets. He gets up out of bed and

> > cruises through the house, vocalizing specific

> > frequencies that have no meaning in language, watching

> > as his world of baseboards and ceiling fans do their

> > trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of euphoric

> > emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because,

> > over time, his global processing did not advance and so

> > the world as we know it has no meaning to him. His world

> > is all about creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is,

> > as some of you know, we can't increase the global

> > processing if the stimming prevails, and until we get

> > the processing up, he will choose, or even fight, to

> > stim. This is the child with no language, the child who

> > does not feel pain if he bangs his head on the ground.

> > This is the child who doesn't see a person as anyone

> > that they want to interact with. After all, at this

> > place in the continuum, who needs people when you have

> > baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme so

> > extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him

> > out of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> > darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> > lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos

> we have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child

> > that we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> > activities that we have designed 24/7.

> >

> > Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That

> > same child has responded well to program and we have had

> > enough progress to actually have light in the house. He

> > sees Mom with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet

> > and hold contact for a few seconds throughout the day.

> > This is the child that has now learned to say " Mama "

> > , " Movies " , " Eat " , and, of course, " No. " This is still a

> > kid in the danger zone. We need as many people as we can

> > get interacting with him. We have a long list of

> > activities that we can do to increase his language and

> > processing abilities. The wonderful thing is, he wants

> > it now. See, people do have something to offer and as

> > long as they offer it, he will engage in this world. The

> > hard thing is, if engagement is not being offered, there

> > are always the baseboards and corners of the room and

> > doors that open and shut. Those things still seem to do

> > nicely as far as this child is concerned, and they still

> > have the ability to steel him away from us. The nice

> > thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit with her arms

> > wrapped around him in a dark room to get him to look at

> > a video. So we USE the TV as our standby therapist. Is

> > he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7 day kiddo,

> > but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a bubble

> > bath as long as there is a decent video running.

> >

> > Let's take some more steps forward and look at what

> > happens. Sensory channels are becoming more normalized.

> > While he may be easily distracted by movement in the

> > peripheral field of vision, he does not live there.

> > Noises are no longer painful, so the family can actually

> > go to a restaurant without too much fear. He is now

> > speaking in phrases. or even sentences, and will gladly

> > communicate what he wants. Processing is up some more so

> > the meltdowns are less frequent. Hopefully by now, there

> > are a few toys or computer games that he can do and

> > actually enjoy. If we have done a good job of rotating

> > out videos so that he is not stuck only on a specific

> > Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom can actually

> > have a conversation on the phone with Grandma for a good

> > chunk of time without fearing that she will loose her

> > son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> > of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> > redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages

> of appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time

> > spent sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short

> > time, oh well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can

> > vividly remember once going away for a few days to

> > conduct a workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew

> > something was up even before I saw him. My oldest son

> > was playing in a State Championship game that Sunday so

> > instead of going home, I left Houston and went straight

> > to the ballpark. As I got out of my car, I saw another

> > mother on the team. Her exact words were " What is wrong

> > with Evan? I saw him this morning and he didn't even

> > speak. He has sat in the chair rocking his head back and

> > forth through the whole game and has not said word. This

> > is so not like him. Is he sick? " You can imagine the

> > first words I spoke to hubby who had been left in charge

> > for the week. It took me weeks to get Evan's vision back

> > to where it had been the day that I left, and for days

> > it was like working with a hung over drunk. But, I did

> > get him back. This is because he was far enough along by

> > this point and on the continuum.

> >

> > Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well.

> > We have a child whose processing is up. His language is

> > fluent. His independent time is spent looking more and

> > more like neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> > conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child

> > still deals with a little excess emotionality, or can

> > get lost in imaginary play, so we carefully watch his

> > balance. We make sure he gets enough non-fiction input

> > and if we see alone in the back yard with imaginary

> > swords for too long, we call him in to take out the

> > trash. This is a child we still watch, but this is also

> > a Mom that we sometimes have to remind her to go take

> > that Bubble Bath. You see, she remembers the days that

> > he banged his head on the floor and couldn't tell her

> > that he was in pain because his ear drum had ruptured.

> > She remembers the days that his best friend was a string

> > that he carried around. She remembers the days that it

> > took every minute of her day jumping through hoops; just

> > to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to

> > let their children stim. She lives in fear that what she

> > has worked so hard to build will vanish.

> >

> > Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go

> > through these steps. She was a precious little gal with

> > an extra chromosome who also had severe sensory

> > problems. We had gone through the steps above on that

> > continuum of development. A few years had gone by since

> > we had seen the head shaking , finger dancing , string

> > twirling days. On the phone one day her mother had been

> > telling me a great unit study that she had been doing

> > with the American Girl series. Since I am the mother of

> > 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I requested that

> > she bring her wonderful little dolls to the next

> > evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> > this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> > dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her

> > daughter used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth

> > and shake Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that

> > unless she was attempting to develop a deep compassion

> > towards chemo patients, it would fine to let the little

> > girl have dolls with hair.

> >

> >

> > It is important to notice in this post that I refer to

> > the SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> > children. The point that I want to make, is that we want

> > to take a child from where they are and progress

> > forwards. If you are the mother of the child starting

> > from point 1 on that line, you have a hard job,. But ,

> > your child can advance to the next step. We will do all

> > that we know to help you take each and every step. If

> > you are farther along on that continuum, do not be

> > confused when you see various suggestions made to other

> > parents, or even the ones that we made to you

> > previously. Stay in touch with your support staff.

> > Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if what

> > you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> > normal " category.

> > Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> > overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you

> > get there as fast as possible!

> >

> > I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> > recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not

> > be exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what

> > wonderful children each and every one of them!!!!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Liz, with all due respect, there is no scientific research to

substantiate that statement and I certainly don't want anyone to be

frightened by it. Like I said, new folks were not around during the

midst of the Vitamin E discussion and it pays to do your research

here and anywhere else that you can to learn about Vitamin E. It is

also very important to administer any type of supplementation while

discussing it with your own doctors.

Please see 's post #58564 re: safety of Vitamin E and the

research behind the claims that it could cause bleeding problems.

BTW - the risk of bleeding is that when you take high doses of Vit E

you may induce a Vitamin K deficiency, which can cause bleeding

problems and if anyone does begin higher doses of Vitamin E, then

they should also be supplementing with Vitamin K. Like I said

before, there is a lot of info in the archives and I'm thinking

someone even put together a summary of it (like the summary of fish

oil that occasionally gets posted so newcomers can see it). If that

summary is still out there, perhaps it could get reposted by the

author?

>

> >This is very interesting!! How much Vitamin E did you supplement

with? My boys do the exact same thing you described with your son.

Very, very sensory seeking. They have no attention span to sit and

properly play with toys. They are ALWAYS on the go! And it is hard

for them to settle down for sleep too. I don't think they are

getting E in any of their supplements.

> >

> > They have been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder.

EVERYTHING is sensory for them.

> >

> > I would love if something as simple as adding adequate amounts

of Vit E would help with this.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Dana

> > and Garrett, 3 years old as of Mar 24

> >SCD One Year!!!!!

> >Celiac, ASD, Speech and Motor Apraxia, sensory processing disorder

> >

> >---------------------------------

> >Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on

TV.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It's a vitamin B thing.

Janice Hoover wrote:

>Yeah, I have heard that vitamin protocols can help with

>stimming.

>

>The thing is... our children have a hard time eliminating

>toxins and a hard time keeping their nutritional levels up.

>This has simply got to be all connected with their behaviour

>and play an important factor.

>

>Sensory issues are both environmental and genetic in cause

>which is why each child is soooo different. This mucks up

>the ability to treat effectively.

>

>If you think it is a stim, call out to your child and have

>him do something for you. Does he readily respond or does

>he ignore you? Somewhere in this you've got to trust that

>'mommy instinct' which is so wise and wonderful.

>

>Janice

>

>

> [ ] Re: Stimming---how do you

>help them stop this?

>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:31:18 -0000

>

>

>

>>, If you've not had an OT evaluate for sensory

>>integration dysfunction, you may want to. A couple of

>>good books on the subject are The Out of Sync Child and

>>Sensational Kids.

>>

>>My child had proprioceptive and vestibular dysfunction due

>>to Vitamin E deficiency (I say had because the symptoms

>>are gone as long he is supplemented with Vit E). His

>>sensory-seeking behaviors included: running constantly,

>>climbing and jumping from the highest points he could get

>>to before I could stop him, hitting his hand against his

>>leg, bumping his face into pillows, turning his head and

>>bumping his ear into the pillow, " couch diving " (he would

>>stand on the arm of the couch and just free-fall belly

>>flop on the the couch, jumping on the couch and beds. At

>>night he couldn't settle himself to sleep as he had to

>>kick his legs and push his feet against me or the

>>bedrails. It would take him over an hour to go to sleep

>>even after an exhaustive day of seeking. This is what he

>>did all day long. He didn't play with toys much, just

>>sensory seeking. We could barely take him anywhere

>>because he always had to dart off and run the length of

>>the store. He did not flap his hands, spin, rock, or

>>some of the other more recognized " stims " , but it was

>>stimming none the less. OT helped (brushing and swinging

>>protocols), but it just managed the symptoms some.

>>Vitamin E literally made them vanish over night and now

>>we have a happy, playful child who isn't bothered by the

>>sensory issues.

>>

>>I'm not suggesting that every child with vestibular and

>>proprioceptive dysfunction is suffering from a Vitamin E

>>deficiency, but that was what was going on with my boy

>>and I thank God every night for Dr. and

>>her willingness to post her son's story.

>>

>> >

>>

>>

>>>Okay, now I have another question after reading all this

>>>

>>>

>>info. My son likes to run around the house. Back and

>>forthusually laughing or just making sounds. Is this

>>stimming? He will also run with his sisters when they

>>are running around to try and play with them. But he

>>will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be

>>another way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

>>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>>-------------- Original message --------------

>>>From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

>>>

>>>Vicki,

>>>

>>>If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken

>>>and how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very

>>>rich woman building my house next to Bill Gates for I

>>>would have the cure to autism!

>>>

>>>There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

>>>where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

>>>unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the

>>>parents 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>>>

>>>Stimming is what takes our children away from us and

>>>what I believe in some ways differentiates disorders

>>>like dyspraxia where the child is still social and still

>>>'connected' with our world from severe autism where a

>>>child has become locked away in a world of 'self

>>>stimulation' thus our world has become insignificant to

>>>him.

>>>The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving

>>>our world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

>>>addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

>>>take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

>>>pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

>>>already addicted!

>>>

>>>I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

>>>behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

>>>what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

>>>pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy

>>>behaviours came from attending classes with kids who

>>>were doing it. I knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and

>>>just tell him not to do it and why it was bad for him.

>>>Sometimes he would do it without thinking and I would

>>>intervene. In his case, it was not very serious because

>>>he never got 'lost' in that world.

>>>Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

>>>including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you

>>>a definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming

>>>'is'!

>>>Janice

>>>

>>>#1

>>>

>>>Hi Everyone,

>>>

>>>Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

>>>repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

>>>sensory channel that is not being processed correctly.

>>>There are quite a few different types of behavior that

>>>are stims. The thing that they have in common is that

>>>they disrupt the child's normal interaction with his or

>>>her environment. " Normal " children and some adults

>>>engage in small amounts of stimmy behaviors when tired,

>>>bored or stressed sometimes. Whether a child is dangling

>>>shoestrings or sitting dazed visualizing an entire Harry

>>>Potter movie or Barney video, while they are involved in

>>>the stim, they are quite indifferent to what is going on

>>>around them.Beyond this, it is hard to generalize except

>>>to say that stimming takes our children away from us,

>>>stops learning, and hurts social interaction. It is

>>>often addictive behavior. "

>>>#2

>>>

>>> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son,

>>>, from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house

>>>and we lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and

>>>played computer games this way. We did tons of

>>>pleoptics. Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with

>>>me. I had no problem taking it out in public and if

>>> would stim, I would use it. I didn't let him out

>>>of my sight. Every time he would stim, I would redirect

>>>him. If he was stimming with toys, I would show him how

>>>to play right with them. You basically have to stay on

>>>your child 24/7 and it is hard work. My husband leaves

>>>the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back until 7:00 PM so it

>>>was up to me. However, when my husband was home, he

>>>wouldn't let stim either. That is very

>>>

>>>

>>important. If you are going to leave your child in

>>

>>

>>>somebody else's care, they can't let them stim. The more

>>>they stim, the harder it is to make them stop.

>>>

>>>My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

>>>rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching

>>>it, watching trains and cars go round and round, lining

>>>up stuff animals and rolling them down the couch one by

>>>one. He also used to like to chase his shadow, look at

>>>objects on the wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>>>

>>>My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

>>>sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the

>>>ceiling fan, he will look right at me, shake his head

>>>and say " no stim " .

>>>

>>>I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten.

>>>I was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the

>>>cat was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me

>>> " kitty no stim " . I guess we got the message across

>>>pretty good!!!

>>>It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it

>>>was very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming

>>>stops, you see your child for the first time. They are a

>>>completely different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>>>

>>>#3

>>>

>>>Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot

>>>when it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and

>>>toys that are not seen very often and watch the stimming

>>>move closer to being exploring. TV in darkened room can

>>>work. If you happen to have a slide projector and some

>>>old slides, that works in a darkened room. Toys that

>>>play music, make animal noises, light up, talk, sing are

>>>all good as they have added intensity.

>>>

>>>#4

>>>There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it!

>>>Sometimes it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due

>>>to the child not being able to or not wanting to really

>>>engage in processing what you are talking about when you

>>>are reading. Sometimes the children shut down when they

>>>anticipate that you are going to ask a question right

>>>after you make a statement. Some kids don't get it

>>>because they are stimming. Some don't get it because

>>>they can't relate to some language in a story.

>>>

>>>It would be specific to your child. I know that there

>>>are plenty of parents out there that have kids that

>>>didn't get it but now do. How we changed that may be

>>>different for many of the children. It's not a one size

>>>fits all situation. Processing is certainly a key issue,

>>>working memory, stopping stimming behavior, increasing

>>>vocabulary, tonal processing....the list is long. That's

>>>why the programs are individual programs.

>>>__________________

>>>

>>>#5

>>>

>>>Stimming in general

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>----------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>>>Please know that this particular post is not a

>>>recommendation for a specific child, but rather,

>>>hopefully a post that will help clear up some confusion.

>>>The one thing that I have appreciated about NACD from

>>>the beginning is the importance of seeing the child, not

>>>diagnosis.

>>>Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

>>>which it creates a problem is the degree where we start

>>>to become concerned. Let me give you an example of a

>>>stim. Early in the morning, as my first cup of

>>>Starbucks's French Roast finishes dripping into the cup

>>>and I take that very first sip, I stim. That first sip

>>>creates a euphoric reaction that over the years has

>>>become addictive. Then shortly after, I fix breakfast

>>>for the kids, I either head off to the office for evals,

>>>or to the couch to begin the homeschool day. That stim

>>>did not stop me from having an effective day.

>>>Considering that we are all on a continuum of

>>>development, let's look at the other end of the

>>>spectrum.

>>>I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I

>>>have seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he

>>>is already ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in

>>>the dark, he has spent the last several hours stimming

>>>on his black and white sheets. He gets up out of bed and

>>>cruises through the house, vocalizing specific

>>>frequencies that have no meaning in language, watching

>>>as his world of baseboards and ceiling fans do their

>>>trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of euphoric

>>>emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

>>>

>>>

>>understand the world that we live in. This is because,

>>

>>

>>>over time, his global processing did not advance and so

>>>the world as we know it has no meaning to him. His world

>>>is all about creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is,

>>>as some of you know, we can't increase the global

>>>processing if the stimming prevails, and until we get

>>>the processing up, he will choose, or even fight, to

>>>stim. This is the child with no language, the child who

>>>does not feel pain if he bangs his head on the ground.

>>>This is the child who doesn't see a person as anyone

>>>that they want to interact with. After all, at this

>>>place in the continuum, who needs people when you have

>>>baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme so

>>>extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him

>>>out of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

>>>darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

>>>lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos

>>>

>>>

>>we have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child

>>

>>

>>>that we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

>>>activities that we have designed 24/7.

>>>

>>>Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That

>>>same child has responded well to program and we have had

>>>enough progress to actually have light in the house. He

>>>sees Mom with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet

>>>and hold contact for a few seconds throughout the day.

>>>This is the child that has now learned to say " Mama "

>>>, " Movies " , " Eat " , and, of course, " No. " This is still a

>>>kid in the danger zone. We need as many people as we can

>>>get interacting with him. We have a long list of

>>>activities that we can do to increase his language and

>>>processing abilities. The wonderful thing is, he wants

>>>it now. See, people do have something to offer and as

>>>long as they offer it, he will engage in this world. The

>>>hard thing is, if engagement is not being offered, there

>>>are always the baseboards and corners of the room and

>>>doors that open and shut. Those things still seem to do

>>>nicely as far as this child is concerned, and they still

>>>have the ability to steel him away from us. The nice

>>>thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit with her arms

>>>wrapped around him in a dark room to get him to look at

>>>a video. So we USE the TV as our standby therapist. Is

>>>he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7 day kiddo,

>>>but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a bubble

>>>bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>>>Let's take some more steps forward and look at what

>>>happens. Sensory channels are becoming more normalized.

>>>While he may be easily distracted by movement in the

>>>peripheral field of vision, he does not live there.

>>>Noises are no longer painful, so the family can actually

>>>go to a restaurant without too much fear. He is now

>>>speaking in phrases. or even sentences, and will gladly

>>>communicate what he wants. Processing is up some more so

>>>the meltdowns are less frequent. Hopefully by now, there

>>>are a few toys or computer games that he can do and

>>>actually enjoy. If we have done a good job of rotating

>>>out videos so that he is not stuck only on a specific

>>>Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom can actually

>>>have a conversation on the phone with Grandma for a good

>>>chunk of time without fearing that she will loose her

>>>son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

>>>of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

>>>redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages

>>>

>>>

>>of appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time

>>

>>

>>>spent sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short

>>>time, oh well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can

>>>vividly remember once going away for a few days to

>>>conduct a workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew

>>>something was up even before I saw him. My oldest son

>>>was playing in a State Championship game that Sunday so

>>>instead of going home, I left Houston and went straight

>>>to the ballpark. As I got out of my car, I saw another

>>>mother on the team. Her exact words were " What is wrong

>>>with Evan? I saw him this morning and he didn't even

>>>speak. He has sat in the chair rocking his head back and

>>>forth through the whole game and has not said word. This

>>>is so not like him. Is he sick? " You can imagine the

>>>first words I spoke to hubby who had been left in charge

>>>for the week. It took me weeks to get Evan's vision back

>>>to where it had been the day that I left, and for days

>>>it was like working with a hung over drunk. But, I did

>>>get him back. This is because he was far enough along by

>>>this point and on the continuum.

>>>Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well.

>>>We have a child whose processing is up. His language is

>>>fluent. His independent time is spent looking more and

>>>more like neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

>>>conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child

>>>still deals with a little excess emotionality, or can

>>>get lost in imaginary play, so we carefully watch his

>>>balance. We make sure he gets enough non-fiction input

>>>and if we see alone in the back yard with imaginary

>>>swords for too long, we call him in to take out the

>>>trash. This is a child we still watch, but this is also

>>>a Mom that we sometimes have to remind her to go take

>>>that Bubble Bath. You see, she remembers the days that

>>>he banged his head on the floor and couldn't tell her

>>>that he was in pain because his ear drum had ruptured.

>>>She remembers the days that his best friend was a string

>>>that he carried around. She remembers the days that it

>>>took every minute of her day jumping through hoops; just

>>>to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

>>>

>>>

>>message board reading as we are telling everyone not to

>>

>>

>>>let their children stim. She lives in fear that what she

>>>has worked so hard to build will vanish.

>>>

>>>Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go

>>>through these steps. She was a precious little gal with

>>>an extra chromosome who also had severe sensory

>>>problems. We had gone through the steps above on that

>>>continuum of development. A few years had gone by since

>>>we had seen the head shaking , finger dancing , string

>>>twirling days. On the phone one day her mother had been

>>>telling me a great unit study that she had been doing

>>>with the American Girl series. Since I am the mother of

>>>5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I requested that

>>>she bring her wonderful little dolls to the next

>>>evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

>>>this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

>>>dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

>>>

>>>

>>that we had come a long way since the days that her

>>

>>

>>>daughter used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth

>>>and shake Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that

>>>unless she was attempting to develop a deep compassion

>>>towards chemo patients, it would fine to let the little

>>>girl have dolls with hair.

>>>

>>>It is important to notice in this post that I refer to

>>>the SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

>>>children. The point that I want to make, is that we want

>>>to take a child from where they are and progress

>>>forwards. If you are the mother of the child starting

>>>from point 1 on that line, you have a hard job,. But ,

>>>your child can advance to the next step. We will do all

>>>that we know to help you take each and every step. If

>>>you are farther along on that continuum, do not be

>>>confused when you see various suggestions made to other

>>>parents, or even the ones that we made to you

>>>previously. Stay in touch with your support staff.

>>>Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if what

>>>you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

>>>normal " category.

>>>Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

>>>overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you

>>>get there as fast as possible!

>>>

>>>I hope this helps you all to understand that a

>>>recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not

>>>be exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what

>>>wonderful children each and every one of them!!!!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I have been every post about stimming and I wanted to ask you something. My

little twin grandsons get SP,PT,,and OT and they have all told me that Matt

and Will both do A LOT of stimming. I have never been around a child that

had autism so this is all new to me. They flap their hands, walk on the tip

toes ALL THE TIME, do a lot of just staring into space, and you CAN CALL

either of their names until you fall out and they ignore you. We have had

their hearing tested and it was normal. When they do look toward you it is

like they are looking through you instead of at you. Matt has never said a

word, Will did talk at a little over a year old but he lost it. He has

started to repeat some now...The other day I told Matt to come back in the

living room boy, and Will said boy,boy,boy. I have heard him say door, baby,

no, but when he says them they are not appropriate, for instance he might

say door and me rocking him to sleep. Is there some way I can use the words

he is saying to help him understand how to do it appropriately? Help

,

Granny to Matt and WIll

On 7/17/07, Liz <lizlaw@...> wrote:

>

> It's a vitamin B thing.

>

> Janice Hoover wrote:

>

> >Yeah, I have heard that vitamin protocols can help with

> >stimming.

> >

> >The thing is... our children have a hard time eliminating

> >toxins and a hard time keeping their nutritional levels up.

> >This has simply got to be all connected with their behaviour

> >and play an important factor.

> >

> >Sensory issues are both environmental and genetic in cause

> >which is why each child is soooo different. This mucks up

> >the ability to treat effectively.

> >

> >If you think it is a stim, call out to your child and have

> >him do something for you. Does he readily respond or does

> >he ignore you? Somewhere in this you've got to trust that

> >'mommy instinct' which is so wise and wonderful.

> >

> >Janice

> >

> >

> > [ ] Re: Stimming---how do you

> >help them stop this?

> >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:31:18 -0000

> >

> >

> >

> >>, If you've not had an OT evaluate for sensory

> >>integration dysfunction, you may want to. A couple of

> >>good books on the subject are The Out of Sync Child and

> >>Sensational Kids.

> >>

> >>My child had proprioceptive and vestibular dysfunction due

> >>to Vitamin E deficiency (I say had because the symptoms

> >>are gone as long he is supplemented with Vit E). His

> >>sensory-seeking behaviors included: running constantly,

> >>climbing and jumping from the highest points he could get

> >>to before I could stop him, hitting his hand against his

> >>leg, bumping his face into pillows, turning his head and

> >>bumping his ear into the pillow, " couch diving " (he would

> >>stand on the arm of the couch and just free-fall belly

> >>flop on the the couch, jumping on the couch and beds. At

> >>night he couldn't settle himself to sleep as he had to

> >>kick his legs and push his feet against me or the

> >>bedrails. It would take him over an hour to go to sleep

> >>even after an exhaustive day of seeking. This is what he

> >>did all day long. He didn't play with toys much, just

> >>sensory seeking. We could barely take him anywhere

> >>because he always had to dart off and run the length of

> >>the store. He did not flap his hands, spin, rock, or

> >>some of the other more recognized " stims " , but it was

> >>stimming none the less. OT helped (brushing and swinging

> >>protocols), but it just managed the symptoms some.

> >>Vitamin E literally made them vanish over night and now

> >>we have a happy, playful child who isn't bothered by the

> >>sensory issues.

> >>

> >>I'm not suggesting that every child with vestibular and

> >>proprioceptive dysfunction is suffering from a Vitamin E

> >>deficiency, but that was what was going on with my boy

> >>and I thank God every night for Dr. and

> >>her willingness to post her son's story.

> >>

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>>Okay, now I have another question after reading all this

> >>>

> >>>

> >>info. My son likes to run around the house. Back and

> >>forthusually laughing or just making sounds. Is this

> >>stimming? He will also run with his sisters when they

> >>are running around to try and play with them. But he

> >>will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be

> >>another way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

> >>

> >>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>-------------- Original message --------------

> >>>From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

> >>>

> >>>Vicki,

> >>>

> >>>If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken

> >>>and how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very

> >>>rich woman building my house next to Bill Gates for I

> >>>would have the cure to autism!

> >>>

> >>>There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> >>>where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> >>>unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the

> >>>parents 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

> >>>

> >>>Stimming is what takes our children away from us and

> >>>what I believe in some ways differentiates disorders

> >>>like dyspraxia where the child is still social and still

> >>>'connected' with our world from severe autism where a

> >>>child has become locked away in a world of 'self

> >>>stimulation' thus our world has become insignificant to

> >>>him.

> >>>The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving

> >>>our world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> >>>addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> >>>take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> >>>pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> >>>already addicted!

> >>>

> >>>I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> >>>behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> >>>what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> >>>pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy

> >>>behaviours came from attending classes with kids who

> >>>were doing it. I knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and

> >>>just tell him not to do it and why it was bad for him.

> >>>Sometimes he would do it without thinking and I would

> >>>intervene. In his case, it was not very serious because

> >>>he never got 'lost' in that world.

> >>>Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> >>>including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you

> >>>a definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming

> >>>'is'!

> >>>Janice

> >>>

> >>>#1

> >>>

> >>>Hi Everyone,

> >>>

> >>>Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> >>>repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> >>>sensory channel that is not being processed correctly.

> >>>There are quite a few different types of behavior that

> >>>are stims. The thing that they have in common is that

> >>>they disrupt the child's normal interaction with his or

> >>>her environment. " Normal " children and some adults

> >>>engage in small amounts of stimmy behaviors when tired,

> >>>bored or stressed sometimes. Whether a child is dangling

> >>>shoestrings or sitting dazed visualizing an entire Harry

> >>>Potter movie or Barney video, while they are involved in

> >>>the stim, they are quite indifferent to what is going on

> >>>around them.Beyond this, it is hard to generalize except

> >>>to say that stimming takes our children away from us,

> >>>stops learning, and hurts social interaction. It is

> >>>often addictive behavior. "

> >>>#2

> >>>

> >>> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son,

> >>>, from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house

> >>>and we lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and

> >>>played computer games this way. We did tons of

> >>>pleoptics. Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with

> >>>me. I had no problem taking it out in public and if

> >>> would stim, I would use it. I didn't let him out

> >>>of my sight. Every time he would stim, I would redirect

> >>>him. If he was stimming with toys, I would show him how

> >>>to play right with them. You basically have to stay on

> >>>your child 24/7 and it is hard work. My husband leaves

> >>>the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back until 7:00 PM so it

> >>>was up to me. However, when my husband was home, he

> >>>wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> >>>

> >>>

> >>important. If you are going to leave your child in

> >>

> >>

> >>>somebody else's care, they can't let them stim. The more

> >>>they stim, the harder it is to make them stop.

> >>>

> >>>My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> >>>rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching

> >>>it, watching trains and cars go round and round, lining

> >>>up stuff animals and rolling them down the couch one by

> >>>one. He also used to like to chase his shadow, look at

> >>>objects on the wall and stare at ceiling fans.

> >>>

> >>>My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> >>>sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the

> >>>ceiling fan, he will look right at me, shake his head

> >>>and say " no stim " .

> >>>

> >>>I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten.

> >>>I was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the

> >>>cat was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me

> >>> " kitty no stim " . I guess we got the message across

> >>>pretty good!!!

> >>>It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it

> >>>was very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming

> >>>stops, you see your child for the first time. They are a

> >>>completely different child and it is WONDERFUL.

> >>>

> >>>#3

> >>>

> >>>Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot

> >>>when it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and

> >>>toys that are not seen very often and watch the stimming

> >>>move closer to being exploring. TV in darkened room can

> >>>work. If you happen to have a slide projector and some

> >>>old slides, that works in a darkened room. Toys that

> >>>play music, make animal noises, light up, talk, sing are

> >>>all good as they have added intensity.

> >>>

> >>>#4

> >>>There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it!

> >>>Sometimes it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due

> >>>to the child not being able to or not wanting to really

> >>>engage in processing what you are talking about when you

> >>>are reading. Sometimes the children shut down when they

> >>>anticipate that you are going to ask a question right

> >>>after you make a statement. Some kids don't get it

> >>>because they are stimming. Some don't get it because

> >>>they can't relate to some language in a story.

> >>>

> >>>It would be specific to your child. I know that there

> >>>are plenty of parents out there that have kids that

> >>>didn't get it but now do. How we changed that may be

> >>>different for many of the children. It's not a one size

> >>>fits all situation. Processing is certainly a key issue,

> >>>working memory, stopping stimming behavior, increasing

> >>>vocabulary, tonal processing....the list is long. That's

> >>>why the programs are individual programs.

> >>>__________________

> >>>

> >>>#5

> >>>

> >>>Stimming in general

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>----------------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >>

> >>>Please know that this particular post is not a

> >>>recommendation for a specific child, but rather,

> >>>hopefully a post that will help clear up some confusion.

> >>>The one thing that I have appreciated about NACD from

> >>>the beginning is the importance of seeing the child, not

> >>>diagnosis.

> >>>Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> >>>which it creates a problem is the degree where we start

> >>>to become concerned. Let me give you an example of a

> >>>stim. Early in the morning, as my first cup of

> >>>Starbucks's French Roast finishes dripping into the cup

> >>>and I take that very first sip, I stim. That first sip

> >>>creates a euphoric reaction that over the years has

> >>>become addictive. Then shortly after, I fix breakfast

> >>>for the kids, I either head off to the office for evals,

> >>>or to the couch to begin the homeschool day. That stim

> >>>did not stop me from having an effective day.

> >>>Considering that we are all on a continuum of

> >>>development, let's look at the other end of the

> >>>spectrum.

> >>>I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I

> >>>have seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he

> >>>is already ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in

> >>>the dark, he has spent the last several hours stimming

> >>>on his black and white sheets. He gets up out of bed and

> >>>cruises through the house, vocalizing specific

> >>>frequencies that have no meaning in language, watching

> >>>as his world of baseboards and ceiling fans do their

> >>>trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of euphoric

> >>>emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> >>>

> >>>

> >>understand the world that we live in. This is because,

> >>

> >>

> >>>over time, his global processing did not advance and so

> >>>the world as we know it has no meaning to him. His world

> >>>is all about creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is,

> >>>as some of you know, we can't increase the global

> >>>processing if the stimming prevails, and until we get

> >>>the processing up, he will choose, or even fight, to

> >>>stim. This is the child with no language, the child who

> >>>does not feel pain if he bangs his head on the ground.

> >>>This is the child who doesn't see a person as anyone

> >>>that they want to interact with. After all, at this

> >>>place in the continuum, who needs people when you have

> >>>baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme so

> >>>extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him

> >>>out of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> >>>darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> >>>lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos

> >>>

> >>>

> >>we have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child

> >>

> >>

> >>>that we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> >>>activities that we have designed 24/7.

> >>>

> >>>Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That

> >>>same child has responded well to program and we have had

> >>>enough progress to actually have light in the house. He

> >>>sees Mom with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet

> >>>and hold contact for a few seconds throughout the day.

> >>>This is the child that has now learned to say " Mama "

> >>>, " Movies " , " Eat " , and, of course, " No. " This is still a

> >>>kid in the danger zone. We need as many people as we can

> >>>get interacting with him. We have a long list of

> >>>activities that we can do to increase his language and

> >>>processing abilities. The wonderful thing is, he wants

> >>>it now. See, people do have something to offer and as

> >>>long as they offer it, he will engage in this world. The

> >>>hard thing is, if engagement is not being offered, there

> >>>are always the baseboards and corners of the room and

> >>>doors that open and shut. Those things still seem to do

> >>>nicely as far as this child is concerned, and they still

> >>>have the ability to steel him away from us. The nice

> >>>thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit with her arms

> >>>wrapped around him in a dark room to get him to look at

> >>>a video. So we USE the TV as our standby therapist. Is

> >>>he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7 day kiddo,

> >>>but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a bubble

> >>>bath as long as there is a decent video running.

> >>>Let's take some more steps forward and look at what

> >>>happens. Sensory channels are becoming more normalized.

> >>>While he may be easily distracted by movement in the

> >>>peripheral field of vision, he does not live there.

> >>>Noises are no longer painful, so the family can actually

> >>>go to a restaurant without too much fear. He is now

> >>>speaking in phrases. or even sentences, and will gladly

> >>>communicate what he wants. Processing is up some more so

> >>>the meltdowns are less frequent. Hopefully by now, there

> >>>are a few toys or computer games that he can do and

> >>>actually enjoy. If we have done a good job of rotating

> >>>out videos so that he is not stuck only on a specific

> >>>Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom can actually

> >>>have a conversation on the phone with Grandma for a good

> >>>chunk of time without fearing that she will loose her

> >>>son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> >>>of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> >>>redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages

> >>>

> >>>

> >>of appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time

> >>

> >>

> >>>spent sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short

> >>>time, oh well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can

> >>>vividly remember once going away for a few days to

> >>>conduct a workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew

> >>>something was up even before I saw him. My oldest son

> >>>was playing in a State Championship game that Sunday so

> >>>instead of going home, I left Houston and went straight

> >>>to the ballpark. As I got out of my car, I saw another

> >>>mother on the team. Her exact words were " What is wrong

> >>>with Evan? I saw him this morning and he didn't even

> >>>speak. He has sat in the chair rocking his head back and

> >>>forth through the whole game and has not said word. This

> >>>is so not like him. Is he sick? " You can imagine the

> >>>first words I spoke to hubby who had been left in charge

> >>>for the week. It took me weeks to get Evan's vision back

> >>>to where it had been the day that I left, and for days

> >>>it was like working with a hung over drunk. But, I did

> >>>get him back. This is because he was far enough along by

> >>>this point and on the continuum.

> >>>Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well.

> >>>We have a child whose processing is up. His language is

> >>>fluent. His independent time is spent looking more and

> >>>more like neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> >>>conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child

> >>>still deals with a little excess emotionality, or can

> >>>get lost in imaginary play, so we carefully watch his

> >>>balance. We make sure he gets enough non-fiction input

> >>>and if we see alone in the back yard with imaginary

> >>>swords for too long, we call him in to take out the

> >>>trash. This is a child we still watch, but this is also

> >>>a Mom that we sometimes have to remind her to go take

> >>>that Bubble Bath. You see, she remembers the days that

> >>>he banged his head on the floor and couldn't tell her

> >>>that he was in pain because his ear drum had ruptured.

> >>>She remembers the days that his best friend was a string

> >>>that he carried around. She remembers the days that it

> >>>took every minute of her day jumping through hoops; just

> >>>to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> >>>

> >>>

> >>message board reading as we are telling everyone not to

> >>

> >>

> >>>let their children stim. She lives in fear that what she

> >>>has worked so hard to build will vanish.

> >>>

> >>>Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go

> >>>through these steps. She was a precious little gal with

> >>>an extra chromosome who also had severe sensory

> >>>problems. We had gone through the steps above on that

> >>>continuum of development. A few years had gone by since

> >>>we had seen the head shaking , finger dancing , string

> >>>twirling days. On the phone one day her mother had been

> >>>telling me a great unit study that she had been doing

> >>>with the American Girl series. Since I am the mother of

> >>>5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I requested that

> >>>she bring her wonderful little dolls to the next

> >>>evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> >>>this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> >>>dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> >>>

> >>>

> >>that we had come a long way since the days that her

> >>

> >>

> >>>daughter used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth

> >>>and shake Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that

> >>>unless she was attempting to develop a deep compassion

> >>>towards chemo patients, it would fine to let the little

> >>>girl have dolls with hair.

> >>>

> >>>It is important to notice in this post that I refer to

> >>>the SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> >>>children. The point that I want to make, is that we want

> >>>to take a child from where they are and progress

> >>>forwards. If you are the mother of the child starting

> >>>from point 1 on that line, you have a hard job,. But ,

> >>>your child can advance to the next step. We will do all

> >>>that we know to help you take each and every step. If

> >>>you are farther along on that continuum, do not be

> >>>confused when you see various suggestions made to other

> >>>parents, or even the ones that we made to you

> >>>previously. Stay in touch with your support staff.

> >>>Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if what

> >>>you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> >>>normal " category.

> >>>Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> >>>overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you

> >>>get there as fast as possible!

> >>>

> >>>I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> >>>recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not

> >>>be exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what

> >>>wonderful children each and every one of them!!!!

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I have been reading every post about stimming and I wanted to ask you

something. My little twin grandsons get SP,PT,,and OT and they have all told

me that Matt and Will both do A LOT of stimming. I have never been around a

child that had autism so this is all new to me. They flap their hands, walk

on the tip toes ALL THE TIME, do a lot of just staring into space, and you

CAN CALL either of their names until you fall out and they ignore you. We

have had their hearing tested and it was normal. When they do look toward

you it is like they are looking through you instead of at you. Matt has

never said a word, Will did talk at a little over a year old but he lost it.

He has started to repeat some now...The other day I told Matt to come back

in the living room boy, and Will said boy,boy,boy. I have heard him say

door, baby, no, but when he says them they are not appropriate, for instance

he might say door and me rocking him to sleep. Is there some way I can use

the words he is saying to help him understand how to do it appropriately?

They will be 3 next month.

,

Granny to Matt and WIll

On 7/17/07, Liz <lizlaw@...> wrote:

>

> It's a vitamin B thing.

>

> Janice Hoover wrote:

>

> >Yeah, I have heard that vitamin protocols can help with

> >stimming.

> >

> >The thing is... our children have a hard time eliminating

> >toxins and a hard time keeping their nutritional levels up.

> >This has simply got to be all connected with their behaviour

> >and play an important factor.

> >

> >Sensory issues are both environmental and genetic in cause

> >which is why each child is soooo different. This mucks up

> >the ability to treat effectively.

> >

> >If you think it is a stim, call out to your child and have

> >him do something for you. Does he readily respond or does

> >he ignore you? Somewhere in this you've got to trust that

> >'mommy instinct' which is so wise and wonderful.

> >

> >Janice

> >

> >

> > [ ] Re: Stimming---how do you

> >help them stop this?

> >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:31:18 -0000

> >

> >

> >

> >>, If you've not had an OT evaluate for sensory

> >>integration dysfunction, you may want to. A couple of

> >>good books on the subject are The Out of Sync Child and

> >>Sensational Kids.

> >>

> >>My child had proprioceptive and vestibular dysfunction due

> >>to Vitamin E deficiency (I say had because the symptoms

> >>are gone as long he is supplemented with Vit E). His

> >>sensory-seeking behaviors included: running constantly,

> >>climbing and jumping from the highest points he could get

> >>to before I could stop him, hitting his hand against his

> >>leg, bumping his face into pillows, turning his head and

> >>bumping his ear into the pillow, " couch diving " (he would

> >>stand on the arm of the couch and just free-fall belly

> >>flop on the the couch, jumping on the couch and beds. At

> >>night he couldn't settle himself to sleep as he had to

> >>kick his legs and push his feet against me or the

> >>bedrails. It would take him over an hour to go to sleep

> >>even after an exhaustive day of seeking. This is what he

> >>did all day long. He didn't play with toys much, just

> >>sensory seeking. We could barely take him anywhere

> >>because he always had to dart off and run the length of

> >>the store. He did not flap his hands, spin, rock, or

> >>some of the other more recognized " stims " , but it was

> >>stimming none the less. OT helped (brushing and swinging

> >>protocols), but it just managed the symptoms some.

> >>Vitamin E literally made them vanish over night and now

> >>we have a happy, playful child who isn't bothered by the

> >>sensory issues.

> >>

> >>I'm not suggesting that every child with vestibular and

> >>proprioceptive dysfunction is suffering from a Vitamin E

> >>deficiency, but that was what was going on with my boy

> >>and I thank God every night for Dr. and

> >>her willingness to post her son's story.

> >>

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>>Okay, now I have another question after reading all this

> >>>

> >>>

> >>info. My son likes to run around the house. Back and

> >>forthusually laughing or just making sounds. Is this

> >>stimming? He will also run with his sisters when they

> >>are running around to try and play with them. But he

> >>will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be

> >>another way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

> >>

> >>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>-------------- Original message --------------

> >>>From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

> >>>

> >>>Vicki,

> >>>

> >>>If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken

> >>>and how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very

> >>>rich woman building my house next to Bill Gates for I

> >>>would have the cure to autism!

> >>>

> >>>There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> >>>where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> >>>unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the

> >>>parents 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

> >>>

> >>>Stimming is what takes our children away from us and

> >>>what I believe in some ways differentiates disorders

> >>>like dyspraxia where the child is still social and still

> >>>'connected' with our world from severe autism where a

> >>>child has become locked away in a world of 'self

> >>>stimulation' thus our world has become insignificant to

> >>>him.

> >>>The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving

> >>>our world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> >>>addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> >>>take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> >>>pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> >>>already addicted!

> >>>

> >>>I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> >>>behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> >>>what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> >>>pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy

> >>>behaviours came from attending classes with kids who

> >>>were doing it. I knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and

> >>>just tell him not to do it and why it was bad for him.

> >>>Sometimes he would do it without thinking and I would

> >>>intervene. In his case, it was not very serious because

> >>>he never got 'lost' in that world.

> >>>Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> >>>including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you

> >>>a definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming

> >>>'is'!

> >>>Janice

> >>>

> >>>#1

> >>>

> >>>Hi Everyone,

> >>>

> >>>Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> >>>repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> >>>sensory channel that is not being processed correctly.

> >>>There are quite a few different types of behavior that

> >>>are stims. The thing that they have in common is that

> >>>they disrupt the child's normal interaction with his or

> >>>her environment. " Normal " children and some adults

> >>>engage in small amounts of stimmy behaviors when tired,

> >>>bored or stressed sometimes. Whether a child is dangling

> >>>shoestrings or sitting dazed visualizing an entire Harry

> >>>Potter movie or Barney video, while they are involved in

> >>>the stim, they are quite indifferent to what is going on

> >>>around them.Beyond this, it is hard to generalize except

> >>>to say that stimming takes our children away from us,

> >>>stops learning, and hurts social interaction. It is

> >>>often addictive behavior. "

> >>>#2

> >>>

> >>> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son,

> >>>, from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house

> >>>and we lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and

> >>>played computer games this way. We did tons of

> >>>pleoptics. Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with

> >>>me. I had no problem taking it out in public and if

> >>> would stim, I would use it. I didn't let him out

> >>>of my sight. Every time he would stim, I would redirect

> >>>him. If he was stimming with toys, I would show him how

> >>>to play right with them. You basically have to stay on

> >>>your child 24/7 and it is hard work. My husband leaves

> >>>the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back until 7:00 PM so it

> >>>was up to me. However, when my husband was home, he

> >>>wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> >>>

> >>>

> >>important. If you are going to leave your child in

> >>

> >>

> >>>somebody else's care, they can't let them stim. The more

> >>>they stim, the harder it is to make them stop.

> >>>

> >>>My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> >>>rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching

> >>>it, watching trains and cars go round and round, lining

> >>>up stuff animals and rolling them down the couch one by

> >>>one. He also used to like to chase his shadow, look at

> >>>objects on the wall and stare at ceiling fans.

> >>>

> >>>My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> >>>sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the

> >>>ceiling fan, he will look right at me, shake his head

> >>>and say " no stim " .

> >>>

> >>>I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten.

> >>>I was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the

> >>>cat was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me

> >>> " kitty no stim " . I guess we got the message across

> >>>pretty good!!!

> >>>It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it

> >>>was very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming

> >>>stops, you see your child for the first time. They are a

> >>>completely different child and it is WONDERFUL.

> >>>

> >>>#3

> >>>

> >>>Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot

> >>>when it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and

> >>>toys that are not seen very often and watch the stimming

> >>>move closer to being exploring. TV in darkened room can

> >>>work. If you happen to have a slide projector and some

> >>>old slides, that works in a darkened room. Toys that

> >>>play music, make animal noises, light up, talk, sing are

> >>>all good as they have added intensity.

> >>>

> >>>#4

> >>>There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it!

> >>>Sometimes it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due

> >>>to the child not being able to or not wanting to really

> >>>engage in processing what you are talking about when you

> >>>are reading. Sometimes the children shut down when they

> >>>anticipate that you are going to ask a question right

> >>>after you make a statement. Some kids don't get it

> >>>because they are stimming. Some don't get it because

> >>>they can't relate to some language in a story.

> >>>

> >>>It would be specific to your child. I know that there

> >>>are plenty of parents out there that have kids that

> >>>didn't get it but now do. How we changed that may be

> >>>different for many of the children. It's not a one size

> >>>fits all situation. Processing is certainly a key issue,

> >>>working memory, stopping stimming behavior, increasing

> >>>vocabulary, tonal processing....the list is long. That's

> >>>why the programs are individual programs.

> >>>__________________

> >>>

> >>>#5

> >>>

> >>>Stimming in general

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>----------------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >>

> >>>Please know that this particular post is not a

> >>>recommendation for a specific child, but rather,

> >>>hopefully a post that will help clear up some confusion.

> >>>The one thing that I have appreciated about NACD from

> >>>the beginning is the importance of seeing the child, not

> >>>diagnosis.

> >>>Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> >>>which it creates a problem is the degree where we start

> >>>to become concerned. Let me give you an example of a

> >>>stim. Early in the morning, as my first cup of

> >>>Starbucks's French Roast finishes dripping into the cup

> >>>and I take that very first sip, I stim. That first sip

> >>>creates a euphoric reaction that over the years has

> >>>become addictive. Then shortly after, I fix breakfast

> >>>for the kids, I either head off to the office for evals,

> >>>or to the couch to begin the homeschool day. That stim

> >>>did not stop me from having an effective day.

> >>>Considering that we are all on a continuum of

> >>>development, let's look at the other end of the

> >>>spectrum.

> >>>I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I

> >>>have seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he

> >>>is already ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in

> >>>the dark, he has spent the last several hours stimming

> >>>on his black and white sheets. He gets up out of bed and

> >>>cruises through the house, vocalizing specific

> >>>frequencies that have no meaning in language, watching

> >>>as his world of baseboards and ceiling fans do their

> >>>trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of euphoric

> >>>emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> >>>

> >>>

> >>understand the world that we live in. This is because,

> >>

> >>

> >>>over time, his global processing did not advance and so

> >>>the world as we know it has no meaning to him. His world

> >>>is all about creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is,

> >>>as some of you know, we can't increase the global

> >>>processing if the stimming prevails, and until we get

> >>>the processing up, he will choose, or even fight, to

> >>>stim. This is the child with no language, the child who

> >>>does not feel pain if he bangs his head on the ground.

> >>>This is the child who doesn't see a person as anyone

> >>>that they want to interact with. After all, at this

> >>>place in the continuum, who needs people when you have

> >>>baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme so

> >>>extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him

> >>>out of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> >>>darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> >>>lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos

> >>>

> >>>

> >>we have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child

> >>

> >>

> >>>that we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> >>>activities that we have designed 24/7.

> >>>

> >>>Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That

> >>>same child has responded well to program and we have had

> >>>enough progress to actually have light in the house. He

> >>>sees Mom with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet

> >>>and hold contact for a few seconds throughout the day.

> >>>This is the child that has now learned to say " Mama "

> >>>, " Movies " , " Eat " , and, of course, " No. " This is still a

> >>>kid in the danger zone. We need as many people as we can

> >>>get interacting with him. We have a long list of

> >>>activities that we can do to increase his language and

> >>>processing abilities. The wonderful thing is, he wants

> >>>it now. See, people do have something to offer and as

> >>>long as they offer it, he will engage in this world. The

> >>>hard thing is, if engagement is not being offered, there

> >>>are always the baseboards and corners of the room and

> >>>doors that open and shut. Those things still seem to do

> >>>nicely as far as this child is concerned, and they still

> >>>have the ability to steel him away from us. The nice

> >>>thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit with her arms

> >>>wrapped around him in a dark room to get him to look at

> >>>a video. So we USE the TV as our standby therapist. Is

> >>>he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7 day kiddo,

> >>>but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a bubble

> >>>bath as long as there is a decent video running.

> >>>Let's take some more steps forward and look at what

> >>>happens. Sensory channels are becoming more normalized.

> >>>While he may be easily distracted by movement in the

> >>>peripheral field of vision, he does not live there.

> >>>Noises are no longer painful, so the family can actually

> >>>go to a restaurant without too much fear. He is now

> >>>speaking in phrases. or even sentences, and will gladly

> >>>communicate what he wants. Processing is up some more so

> >>>the meltdowns are less frequent. Hopefully by now, there

> >>>are a few toys or computer games that he can do and

> >>>actually enjoy. If we have done a good job of rotating

> >>>out videos so that he is not stuck only on a specific

> >>>Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom can actually

> >>>have a conversation on the phone with Grandma for a good

> >>>chunk of time without fearing that she will loose her

> >>>son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> >>>of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> >>>redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages

> >>>

> >>>

> >>of appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time

> >>

> >>

> >>>spent sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short

> >>>time, oh well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can

> >>>vividly remember once going away for a few days to

> >>>conduct a workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew

> >>>something was up even before I saw him. My oldest son

> >>>was playing in a State Championship game that Sunday so

> >>>instead of going home, I left Houston and went straight

> >>>to the ballpark. As I got out of my car, I saw another

> >>>mother on the team. Her exact words were " What is wrong

> >>>with Evan? I saw him this morning and he didn't even

> >>>speak. He has sat in the chair rocking his head back and

> >>>forth through the whole game and has not said word. This

> >>>is so not like him. Is he sick? " You can imagine the

> >>>first words I spoke to hubby who had been left in charge

> >>>for the week. It took me weeks to get Evan's vision back

> >>>to where it had been the day that I left, and for days

> >>>it was like working with a hung over drunk. But, I did

> >>>get him back. This is because he was far enough along by

> >>>this point and on the continuum.

> >>>Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well.

> >>>We have a child whose processing is up. His language is

> >>>fluent. His independent time is spent looking more and

> >>>more like neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> >>>conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child

> >>>still deals with a little excess emotionality, or can

> >>>get lost in imaginary play, so we carefully watch his

> >>>balance. We make sure he gets enough non-fiction input

> >>>and if we see alone in the back yard with imaginary

> >>>swords for too long, we call him in to take out the

> >>>trash. This is a child we still watch, but this is also

> >>>a Mom that we sometimes have to remind her to go take

> >>>that Bubble Bath. You see, she remembers the days that

> >>>he banged his head on the floor and couldn't tell her

> >>>that he was in pain because his ear drum had ruptured.

> >>>She remembers the days that his best friend was a string

> >>>that he carried around. She remembers the days that it

> >>>took every minute of her day jumping through hoops; just

> >>>to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> >>>

> >>>

> >>message board reading as we are telling everyone not to

> >>

> >>

> >>>let their children stim. She lives in fear that what she

> >>>has worked so hard to build will vanish.

> >>>

> >>>Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go

> >>>through these steps. She was a precious little gal with

> >>>an extra chromosome who also had severe sensory

> >>>problems. We had gone through the steps above on that

> >>>continuum of development. A few years had gone by since

> >>>we had seen the head shaking , finger dancing , string

> >>>twirling days. On the phone one day her mother had been

> >>>telling me a great unit study that she had been doing

> >>>with the American Girl series. Since I am the mother of

> >>>5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I requested that

> >>>she bring her wonderful little dolls to the next

> >>>evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> >>>this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> >>>dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> >>>

> >>>

> >>that we had come a long way since the days that her

> >>

> >>

> >>>daughter used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth

> >>>and shake Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that

> >>>unless she was attempting to develop a deep compassion

> >>>towards chemo patients, it would fine to let the little

> >>>girl have dolls with hair.

> >>>

> >>>It is important to notice in this post that I refer to

> >>>the SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> >>>children. The point that I want to make, is that we want

> >>>to take a child from where they are and progress

> >>>forwards. If you are the mother of the child starting

> >>>from point 1 on that line, you have a hard job,. But ,

> >>>your child can advance to the next step. We will do all

> >>>that we know to help you take each and every step. If

> >>>you are farther along on that continuum, do not be

> >>>confused when you see various suggestions made to other

> >>>parents, or even the ones that we made to you

> >>>previously. Stay in touch with your support staff.

> >>>Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if what

> >>>you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> >>>normal " category.

> >>>Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> >>>overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you

> >>>get there as fast as possible!

> >>>

> >>>I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> >>>recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not

> >>>be exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what

> >>>wonderful children each and every one of them!!!!

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

[Guest guest]

We are already getting OT,ST and ABA. He was getting PT but they stopped it

last December. Didn't make sense but they said he met his milestones. He still

was an uncoordinated mess but I didn't question it. It was only 1x/month so I

don't know how much he really got out of it anyway. The EI services will stop

after next week and then he will be in the special ed preschool in the township

which seems to be wonderful.

We are just starting the vitamin E. I must say I have done it for less than a

week and seen changes. Before he didn't like to build with his pop-blocks. If

it got two or three high he would knock it down or if they started to fall, he

just gave up. Two days after starting the vitamin E he is a building machine!

He actually goes and goes until ALL the blocks are used. And if they fall he

just picks them up and tries again. He was also building with the pegs his

therapist had today and didn't mind that his sister was doing it with him. He

even patiently waited his turn. My husband mentioned that he saw my sons hand

coordination do much better suddenly. He didn't know I started the E the day

before. This was with the bare minimum dose. So I will increase it a bit and

see if there are any more changes.

Can I ask what type /amounts of vit E you are using? That is so great that you

achieved such drastic positive results! I am so happy for you!

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " " <kwatsoneei@...>

, If you've not had an OT evaluate for sensory integration

dysfunction, you may want to. A couple of good books on the subject

are The Out of Sync Child and Sensational Kids.

My child had proprioceptive and vestibular dysfunction due to Vitamin

E deficiency (I say had because the symptoms are gone as long he is

supplemented with Vit E). His sensory-seeking behaviors included:

running constantly, climbing and jumping from the highest points he

could get to before I could stop him, hitting his hand against his

leg, bumping his face into pillows, turning his head and bumping his

ear into the pillow, " couch diving " (he would stand on the arm of the

couch and just free-fall belly flop on the the couch, jumping on the

couch and beds. At night he couldn't settle himself to sleep as he

had to kick his legs and push his feet against me or the bedrails. It

would take him over an hour to go to sleep even after an exhaustive

day of seeking. This is what he did all day long. He didn't play

with toys much, just sensory seeking. We could barely take him

anywhere because he always had to dart off and run the length of the

store. He did not flap his hands, spin, rock, or some of the other

more recognized " stims " , but it was stimming none the less. OT

helped (brushing and swinging protocols), but it just managed the

symptoms some. Vitamin E literally made them vanish over night and

now we have a happy, playful child who isn't bothered by the sensory

issues.

I'm not suggesting that every child with vestibular and

proprioceptive dysfunction is suffering from a Vitamin E deficiency,

but that was what was going on with my boy and I thank God every

night for Dr. and her willingness to post her son's

story.

>

> Okay, now I have another question after reading all this info. My

son likes to run around the house. Back and forthusually laughing or

just making sounds. Is this stimming? He will also run with his

sisters when they are running around to try and play with them. But

he will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be another

way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

>

> Vicki,

>

> If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

> how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

> building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

> cure to autism!

>

> There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

> 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>

> Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

> believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

> where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

> our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

> away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

> become insignificant to him.

>

> The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

> world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> already addicted!

>

> I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

> came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

> knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

> do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

> without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

> not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

>

> Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

> definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

>

> Janice

>

> #1

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

> are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

> The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

> child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

> " Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

> stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

> Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

> visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

> while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

> indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

> is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

> children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

> interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

>

> #2

>

> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

> from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

> lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

> computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

> Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

> problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

> would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

> he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

> toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

> basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

> work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

> until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

> was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

> else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

> the harder it is to make them stop.

>

> My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

> watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

> animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

> used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

> wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>

> My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

> fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

> stim " .

>

> I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

> was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

> was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

> no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

>

> It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

> very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

> see your child for the first time. They are a completely

> different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>

> #3

>

> Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

> it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

> are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

> to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

> happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

> works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

> noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

> intensity.

>

> #4

> There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

> it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

> not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

> processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

> Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

> you are going to ask a question right after you make a

> statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

> Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

> in a story.

>

> It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

> plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

> it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

> of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

> Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

> stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

> processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

> individual programs.

> __________________

>

> #5

>

> Stimming in general

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> Please know that this particular post is not a

> recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

> post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

> that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

> importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

>

> Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

> become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

> Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

> Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

> first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

> reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

> shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

> off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

> homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

> effective day.

> Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

> let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

>

> I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

> seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

> ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

> spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

> sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

> vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

> language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

> fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

> euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

> time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

> as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

> creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

> know, we can't increase the global processing if the

> stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

> will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

> no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

> his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

> person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

> at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

> have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

> so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

> of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

> have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

> we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> activities that we have designed 24/7.

>

> Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

> child has responded well to program and we have had enough

> progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

> with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

> contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

> child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

> and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

> zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

> him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

> increase his language and processing abilities. The

> wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

> something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

> engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

> not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

> corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

> things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

> concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

> from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

> with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

> to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

> therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

> day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

> bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>

> Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

> Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

> be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

> vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

> painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

> without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

> even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

> Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

> frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

> games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

> good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

> on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

> can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

> for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

> her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

> appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

> sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

> well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

> remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

> workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

> up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

> State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

> home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

> got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

> exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

> morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

> rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

> has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

> You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

> been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

> Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

> and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

> But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

> along by this point and on the continuum.

>

> Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

> have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

> His independent time is spent looking more and more like

> neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

> deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

> imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

> sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

> the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

> him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

> watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

> remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

> remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

> couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

> had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

> was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

> that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

> just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

> their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

> worked so hard to build will vanish.

>

> Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

> these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

> chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

> through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

> few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

> finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

> her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

> had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

> mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

> requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

> next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

> used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

> Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

> attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

> patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

> with hair.

>

> It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

> SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

> take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

> you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

> that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

> advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

> help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

> on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

> suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

> made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

> staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

> what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> normal " category.

>

> Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

> there as fast as possible!

>

> I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

> exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

> children each and every one of them!!!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think he is just playing along with his sisters. But I will watch more

closely and see what he is looking at now when he does it. Ugh! I don't want

to have to worry about anything else!

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " bscmommy " <stephanee_a@...>

Is he looking at something particular as he runs? Maybe the floor,

or the baseboards, or the back of the couch? My son used to do this

BUT, his head would be sideways and he would be looking out of the

corner of his eyes at something straight (backs of chairs, chair

rail on wall, back of couch, kitchen countertop). If so, yes, this

is a visual stim. I would stop him and have him look at something

else/redirect. Interestingly enough, when I added Vitamin A 10,000

IU/day, this stopped completely on its own. When I backed off the

A, it would appear again.

I would think chasing his sisters would be a good thing, from an

interaction standpoint. Unless, of course, he isn't following them

and looking at them.

Stephanee

>

> Okay, now I have another question after reading all this info. My

son likes to run around the house. Back and forthusually laughing

or just making sounds. Is this stimming? He will also run with his

sisters when they are running around to try and play with them. But

he will do this on his own. Now I am afraid this could be another

way he is stimming. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: " Janice Hoover " <jscott@...>

>

> Vicki,

>

> If I could tell you which sensory channels were broken and

> how specifically to 'make it stop', I'd be a very rich woman

> building my house next to Bill Gates for I would have the

> cure to autism!

>

> There are two schools of thought on stimming, the school

> where kids are allowed to do it because the teachers are

> unable to physically stop the kids and so tell the parents

> 'it's okay' and the REALITY which is...

>

> Stimming is what takes our children away from us and what I

> believe in some ways differentiates disorders like dyspraxia

> where the child is still social and still 'connected' with

> our world from severe autism where a child has become locked

> away in a world of 'self stimulation' thus our world has

> become insignificant to him.

>

> The more a child stims, the more the child is leaving our

> world and entering the world of sensory play. It is

> addictive and the child REALLY WANTS IT so it is HARD to

> take it away. But if I saw my child lighting up a crack

> pipe, I certainly would take it away! Even if he was

> already addicted!

>

> I have heard some people say that just redirecting the

> behaviour works, deep pressure hugs work and changing up

> what the child is doing. I was so lucky since Mark was

> pretty much a true dyspraxic and his only stimmy behaviours

> came from attending classes with kids who were doing it. I

> knew to tell him 'absolutely not' and just tell him not to

> do it and why it was bad for him. Sometimes he would do it

> without thinking and I would intervene. In his case, it was

> not very serious because he never got 'lost' in that world.

>

> Here are some posts from NACD message board on Stimming

> including a definition of what it is. Post #1 gives you a

> definition but post #5 really shows you what stimming 'is'!

>

> Janice

>

> #1

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Stimming is short for self-stimulatory behavior. It is

> repetitive, non-productive behavior that stimulates a

> sensory channel that is not being processed correctly. There

> are quite a few different types of behavior that are stims.

> The thing that they have in common is that they disrupt the

> child's normal interaction with his or her environment.

> " Normal " children and some adults engage in small amounts of

> stimmy behaviors when tired, bored or stressed sometimes.

> Whether a child is dangling shoestrings or sitting dazed

> visualizing an entire Harry Potter movie or Barney video,

> while they are involved in the stim, they are quite

> indifferent to what is going on around them.Beyond this, it

> is hard to generalize except to say that stimming takes our

> children away from us, stops learning, and hurts social

> interaction. It is often addictive behavior. "

>

> #2

>

> " Hi everyone! This is what I did to stop my son, ,

> from stimming. I pulled all the blinds in the house and we

> lived in darkness. We viewed t.v. this way and played

> computer games this way. We did tons of pleoptics.

> Everywhere I went, that flashlight went with me. I had no

> problem taking it out in public and if would stim, I

> would use it. I didn't let him out of my sight. Every time

> he would stim, I would redirect him. If he was stimming with

> toys, I would show him how to play right with them. You

> basically have to stay on your child 24/7 and it is hard

> work. My husband leaves the house at 6:30 AM and isn't back

> until 7:00 PM so it was up to me. However, when my husband

> was home, he wouldn't let stim either. That is very

> important. If you are going to leave your child in somebody

> else's care, they can't let them stim. The more they stim,

> the harder it is to make them stop.

>

> My son used to stim by ripping up grass and throwing it,

> rolling a ball or rocks down a slide and just watching it,

> watching trains and cars go round and round, lining up stuff

> animals and rolling them down the couch one by one. He also

> used to like to chase his shadow, look at objects on the

> wall and stare at ceiling fans.

>

> My blinds are now open, I can run my ceiling fans and my

> sons knows not to stim. If he even glances up at the ceiling

> fan, he will look right at me, shake his head and say " no

> stim " .

>

> I have a real funny story. My mother just got a kitten. I

> was playing with the kitten dragging a string and the cat

> was naturally stalking it. Well, informs me " kitty

> no stim " . I guess we got the message across pretty good!!!

>

> It took almost a year to get him to completely stop, it was

> very hard, but very worth it. Once the stimming stops, you

> see your child for the first time. They are a completely

> different child and it is WONDERFUL.

>

> #3

>

> Novelty has intensity so novelty really does help a lot when

> it comes to stopping stimming. Put out objects and toys that

> are not seen very often and watch the stimming move closer

> to being exploring. TV in darkened room can work. If you

> happen to have a slide projector and some old slides, that

> works in a darkened room. Toys that play music, make animal

> noises, light up, talk, sing are all good as they have added

> intensity.

>

> #4

> There are many reasons why a child doesn't get it! Sometimes

> it is due to inattention. Sometimes it is due to the child

> not being able to or not wanting to really engage in

> processing what you are talking about when you are reading.

> Sometimes the children shut down when they anticipate that

> you are going to ask a question right after you make a

> statement. Some kids don't get it because they are stimming.

> Some don't get it because they can't relate to some language

> in a story.

>

> It would be specific to your child. I know that there are

> plenty of parents out there that have kids that didn't get

> it but now do. How we changed that may be different for many

> of the children. It's not a one size fits all situation.

> Processing is certainly a key issue, working memory,

> stopping stimming behavior, increasing vocabulary, tonal

> processing....the list is long. That's why the programs are

> individual programs.

> __________________

>

> #5

>

> Stimming in general

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> Please know that this particular post is not a

> recommendation for a specific child, but rather, hopefully a

> post that will help clear up some confusion. The one thing

> that I have appreciated about NACD from the beginning is the

> importance of seeing the child, not diagnosis.

>

> Stimming....first of all, EVERYBODY stims. The degree to

> which it creates a problem is the degree where we start to

> become concerned. Let me give you an example of a stim.

> Early in the morning, as my first cup of Starbucks's French

> Roast finishes dripping into the cup and I take that very

> first sip, I stim. That first sip creates a euphoric

> reaction that over the years has become addictive. Then

> shortly after, I fix breakfast for the kids, I either head

> off to the office for evals, or to the couch to begin the

> homeschool day. That stim did not stop me from having an

> effective day.

> Considering that we are all on a continuum of development,

> let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

>

> I stop and think about the most severe stimmer that I have

> seen. As the day starts, early in the morning, he is already

> ahead of the game. Since he sees so well in the dark, he has

> spent the last several hours stimming on his black and white

> sheets. He gets up out of bed and cruises through the house,

> vocalizing specific frequencies that have no meaning in

> language, watching as his world of baseboards and ceiling

> fans do their trick on him. He is feeling that same rush of

> euphoric emotion, but his doesn't stop and allow him to

> understand the world that we live in. This is because, over

> time, his global processing did not advance and so the world

> as we know it has no meaning to him. His world is all about

> creating those endorphins. The catch 22 is, as some of you

> know, we can't increase the global processing if the

> stimming prevails, and until we get the processing up, he

> will choose, or even fight, to stim. This is the child with

> no language, the child who does not feel pain if he bangs

> his head on the ground. This is the child who doesn't see a

> person as anyone that they want to interact with. After all,

> at this place in the continuum, who needs people when you

> have baseboards. For this child...the situation is extreme

> so extreme measures must be taken if we want to pull him out

> of that world and into ours. This may mean a totally

> darkened house with the child sitting on our lap, as we

> lovingly hold him a few feet from a 12 " " TV with videos we

> have made to teach him a word to use. This is the child that

> we recommend having a battery of warm bodies doing

> activities that we have designed 24/7.

>

> Now, let's take a step forward in that continuum. That same

> child has responded well to program and we have had enough

> progress to actually have light in the house. He sees Mom

> with all new eyes. Eyes that will actually meet and hold

> contact for a few seconds throughout the day. This is the

> child that has now learned to say " Mama " , " Movies " , " Eat " ,

> and, of course, " No. " This is still a kid in the danger

> zone. We need as many people as we can get interacting with

> him. We have a long list of activities that we can do to

> increase his language and processing abilities. The

> wonderful thing is, he wants it now. See, people do have

> something to offer and as long as they offer it, he will

> engage in this world. The hard thing is, if engagement is

> not being offered, there are always the baseboards and

> corners of the room and doors that open and shut. Those

> things still seem to do nicely as far as this child is

> concerned, and they still have the ability to steel him away

> from us. The nice thing is though; Mom no longer has to sit

> with her arms wrapped around him in a dark room to get him

> to look at a video. So we USE the TV as our standby

> therapist. Is he still a 24/7? For sure probably still a 7

> day kiddo, but maybe not a 24 hour. Mom does get to take a

> bubble bath as long as there is a decent video running.

>

> Let's take some more steps forward and look at what happens.

> Sensory channels are becoming more normalized. While he may

> be easily distracted by movement in the peripheral field of

> vision, he does not live there. Noises are no longer

> painful, so the family can actually go to a restaurant

> without too much fear. He is now speaking in phrases. or

> even sentences, and will gladly communicate what he wants.

> Processing is up some more so the meltdowns are less

> frequent. Hopefully by now, there are a few toys or computer

> games that he can do and actually enjoy. If we have done a

> good job of rotating out videos so that he is not stuck only

> on a specific Disney movie, we can decrease TV/Video. Mom

> can actually have a conversation on the phone with Grandma

> for a good chunk of time without fearing that she will loose

> her son to a world that will not let him return. Are we out

> of the woods? NO, unfortunately not. But, is it a 24/7

> redirect? No. You have to look carefully at percentages of

> appropriate and therapeutic input compared to the time spent

> sneaking away to stim. If that is only for a short time, oh

> well. If it is for hours or days, OH NO! I can vividly

> remember once going away for a few days to conduct a

> workshop when Evan was at this stage. I knew something was

> up even before I saw him. My oldest son was playing in a

> State Championship game that Sunday so instead of going

> home, I left Houston and went straight to the ballpark. As I

> got out of my car, I saw another mother on the team. Her

> exact words were " What is wrong with Evan? I saw him this

> morning and he didn't even speak. He has sat in the chair

> rocking his head back and forth through the whole game and

> has not said word. This is so not like him. Is he sick? "

> You can imagine the first words I spoke to hubby who had

> been left in charge for the week. It took me weeks to get

> Evan's vision back to where it had been the day that I left,

> and for days it was like working with a hung over drunk.

> But, I did get him back. This is because he was far enough

> along by this point and on the continuum.

>

> Now, more steps ahead. We have all done our work well. We

> have a child whose processing is up. His language is fluent.

> His independent time is spent looking more and more like

> neuro-typical kids, and his visualization and

> conceptualization are more balanced. Maybe this child still

> deals with a little excess emotionality, or can get lost in

> imaginary play, so we carefully watch his balance. We make

> sure he gets enough non-fiction input and if we see alone in

> the back yard with imaginary swords for too long, we call

> him in to take out the trash. This is a child we still

> watch, but this is also a Mom that we sometimes have to

> remind her to go take that Bubble Bath. You see, she

> remembers the days that he banged his head on the floor and

> couldn't tell her that he was in pain because his ear drum

> had ruptured. She remembers the days that his best friend

> was a string that he carried around. She remembers the days

> that it took every minute of her day jumping through hoops;

> just to get his eyes to meet hers. She is still on this

> message board reading as we are telling everyone not to let

> their children stim. She lives in fear that what she has

> worked so hard to build will vanish.

>

> Let me tell you about a little gal that I watched go through

> these steps. She was a precious little gal with an extra

> chromosome who also had severe sensory problems. We had gone

> through the steps above on that continuum of development. A

> few years had gone by since we had seen the head shaking ,

> finger dancing , string twirling days. On the phone one day

> her mother had been telling me a great unit study that she

> had been doing with the American Girl series. Since I am the

> mother of 5 boys and don't get to see many dolls, I

> requested that she bring her wonderful little dolls to the

> next evaluation to share with me I will never forget when

> this precious little girl walked in with her expensive

> dolls...all with their heads shaved. I had to remind Mom

> that we had come a long way since the days that her daughter

> used to sit in the floor, rock back and forth and shake

> Barbie dolls to stim. I let her know that unless she was

> attempting to develop a deep compassion towards chemo

> patients, it would fine to let the little girl have dolls

> with hair.

>

> It is important to notice in this post that I refer to the

> SAME child throughout a continuum, and not different

> children. The point that I want to make, is that we want to

> take a child from where they are and progress forwards. If

> you are the mother of the child starting from point 1 on

> that line, you have a hard job,. But , your child can

> advance to the next step. We will do all that we know to

> help you take each and every step. If you are farther along

> on that continuum, do not be confused when you see various

> suggestions made to other parents, or even the ones that we

> made to you previously. Stay in touch with your support

> staff. Sometimes it helps for them to help you clarify if

> what you child is doing fits into the " odd " or " totally

> normal " category.

>

> Keep in mind, you do not go from step 1 to step 25

> overnight, but we are all just as anxious to help you get

> there as fast as possible!

>

> I hope this helps you all to understand that a

> recommendation for child " A " regarding stimming, may not be

> exactly the same for child " B " . And to add, what wonderful

> children each and every one of them!!!!

>

>

>

>

>